Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: dpmasunder on May 20, 2005, 07:09:15 AM

Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 20, 2005, 07:09:15 AM
Hi all! I'm an Aussie guitar maker who has started work on an 8-string project for my own use, and maybe (hopefully) as the prototype for others.
I've been emailing Tim a bit about this and he's agreed to wind the pickups for it, which I'm pretty bloody happy about.
Well things are getting underway shortly so I figure the forum might be the best place for my questions from now on, so here's how it stands right now...

I've designed a pickup cover in 3d (I use Rhino if anyone cares), it's being looked at by a CNC contact soon. Providing the CNC work is anywhere near affordable I'll get the flatwork cut. I've designed the cover so the coils mount to it with screws from underneath, so I'll have to change things if the CNC isn't a goer.

Two questions -

Firstly, this vulcanised fibre I got from StewMac has a slight curve to it. Is it possible to flatten it? Does it matter?

Secondly, could a calibrated neck pickup be made as a stacked coil (think noiseless Strat) but wired in series to give humbucker-ish tone combined with narrow magnetic field Straty-ness?  :grrr:

I have more ideas but I don't want to push it  :lol:

Nice emoticons btw

Dan
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Tim on May 20, 2005, 08:06:34 AM
Welcome to the boards Dan.

The forbon can be flattened out by a little judicious handling and placing under a heavy weight-I'm not sure how big a piece we're talking about but you should be able to reshape it if you're careful.

Stacked singles-as a rule I won't touch them.I've never heard a good noiseless single-bottom line is once the coil shape is changed, ie two mini coils or stacked and the 50/60 cycle hum has gone so has the single coil tone and you're left with something that's neither like a humbucker or single,just flat and lifeless.
If you've experience of a good sounding design I'll look at it.

Glad you like the emos :chain:  :minigun:  :rip:  :rock:  :tfrag:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 20, 2005, 08:46:51 AM
The forbon is only 6" x 6", I was thinking of ironing it   :roll:  

I think I get what you're saying with the stacked coil.  If the coils are identically wound and sensing the same string movement they cancel out a heap of signal???

I'm not a Strat kind of guy and I've never heard a stack designed to give  humbucker balls. I'm giving this thing a heap of upper fret access so things are looking a little cluttered with 2x hb's. The guitar design looks to be changing a bit from what I sent you btw

Tim, can you tap the coils on this (these?) a couple of k from the end and do 6 conductor  PDT_009

You guys might appreciate this
http://people.freenet.de/schnubelken/bunnys/
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: PhilKing on May 20, 2005, 11:35:40 AM
Hi Dan,

What about a P-90 or mini-Mule?  These are narrower than the regular HB and both have a great sound.  I have a Crawler/P-90 set up and they blend really well and also give me the tone I was after.  I am just waiting my mini-Mule (along with a tapped HB size P-90 and Alnico V Strat!).  This is going on a custom guitar that has very little space between the 24th fret and the Wilkinson Tremelo  :huge:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 20, 2005, 11:55:23 AM
Single coil isn't an option for me. I can't stand hum :lol:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: PhilKing on May 20, 2005, 03:32:02 PM
The mini-mule is a LP Deluxe/Firebird mini humbucker.  I guess though that for an 8 string this might be a problem!  What about the PB split HB solution? Having 2 4 string single coils pickups in line with rw/rp to be humbucking?
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Ratrod on May 20, 2005, 03:53:01 PM
An 8 string guitar? Where I come from we call that a harp :wink:
I'd love to see some pics of the guitars you've made. Do you have a website?

BTW, cool bunny jokes :twisted:  I guess the Aussie expression would be sick but fair.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: choconutjoe on May 22, 2005, 09:58:27 PM
8-string?

Thinking of forming a meshuggah tribute band?
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Tim on May 22, 2005, 10:02:01 PM
Quote from: dpmasunder
The forbon is only 6" x 6", I was thinking of ironing it   :roll:  

I think I get what you're saying with the stacked coil.  If the coils are identically wound and sensing the same string movement they cancel out a heap of signal???

I'm not a Strat kind of guy and I've never heard a stack designed to give  humbucker balls. I'm giving this thing a heap of upper fret access so things are looking a little cluttered with 2x hb's. The guitar design looks to be changing a bit from what I sent you btw

Tim, can you tap the coils on this (these?) a couple of k from the end and do 6 conductor  PDT_009

You guys might appreciate this
http://people.freenet.de/schnubelken/bunnys/


6 con!! Hell why not so long as you can figure out how to wire it up :lol:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 22, 2005, 10:14:43 PM
lol that's the spirit!

Meshuggah  noooooo. I can't stand their 8-string work.
I've been playing 7 a long time and I think 8 will help me express myself better.
It's really just laziness, the more strings you have the less you have to move your hand up and down the neck :lol:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 23, 2005, 01:42:37 AM
for Ratrod

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/dpmasunder/0D7SJ6Frontish.jpg)

http://www.benedom.com/seven-string.html

No website yet, it's almost ready.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 23, 2005, 01:42:37 AM
Most recent possible outline -  this is the 10th attempt  :lol:  the jpeg conversion is a bit rough for some reason

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/dpmasunder/yetanother.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/dpmasunder/cr@prender.jpg)
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Tim on May 23, 2005, 07:31:47 AM
They look amazing-just don't ask me to play it,I have enough trouble with 6 strings :lol:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 23, 2005, 09:52:52 AM
Any feedback on the design would be appreciated btw :drink:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Ratrod on May 23, 2005, 11:09:50 AM
Nice stuff! I like the upper horn of the 8-string, kinda like an inverted Iceman. BTW you must have BIG hands.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 23, 2005, 11:49:12 AM
Dude, I have tiny hands.
Perhaps there's some deep psychological reason for this.
Overcoming my digital inadequacies  :roll:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Ratrod on May 23, 2005, 02:36:27 PM
I once tried a 7-string Ibanez. All my fingers are quite long exept for my pinky. I could wrap my fingers around the fretboard but I had trouble getting my pinky on the low E-string. Same with those 'Police-chords', I sometimes think I should get a short scale guitar for that stuff, like a Jag.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 24, 2005, 08:40:17 AM
Just buy a bass and play that occasionally. Those stretches won't bother you anymore :lol:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Ratrod on May 24, 2005, 11:16:58 AM
In that case, I'd get me an upright bass. :lol:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 26, 2005, 12:12:58 AM
I haven't put a great deal of thought into it but using a four pole 5-way with 6 conductor
this might work, I've done something similar with 3 hb's before

1 - Bridge pickup
2 - Bridge pickup tapped
3 - One coil from each pickup, maybe tapped
4 - Neck pickup tapped
5 - Neck pickup

Wire the five-way switch so the output of it is equivalent to standard 4-con then run that to a series/parallel switch. So you get 5 series sounds
and 5 parallel.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: PhilKing on May 26, 2005, 07:20:22 AM
You can also do the PRS settings with this:

Bridge pu
Screw bridge/Screw neck parallel
Screw bridge/Screw neck series*
Slug Bridge/Slug neck parallel**
Neck pu

I would change this so that * is both hb's and ** is the Screw coils in series.

You would have to really think about phase if you are putting a series/parallel switch after the 5-way.  I've wired a 4 pole 5 way for all series settings and series/parallel within the switch, but it would be difficult to change the phase for all coils the same way after the switch.   :crazy2:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 26, 2005, 08:37:14 AM
Phase would be the same in series and parallel modes.
Sorry, I don't quite understand your concern??
Essentially the 5-way just selects which coils (or taps) are active and spits
it out as a single 4-conductor humbucker.

+1 on the upright Ratrod. I'd love one, but they ain't cheap!
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: PhilKing on May 26, 2005, 09:19:56 AM
i was thinking about the direction of the winding.  As I understand it, if you want the coils to be hum cancelling you normally need rw/rp for one coil against the other.  So depending which coil set you are picking in your 1 coil from each pu, it might be a problem.  It might be that I didn't think mine out well enough, but it is easy to get a non-hum cancelling combination when you are selecting different coils.

With the 4 way I guess you would be using one coil on each switch.  I was thinking that as sometimes you need to go to ground vs to another coil, doing the series/parallel after the switch might be a problem depending on which coil combination is selected on the 5-way.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on May 26, 2005, 09:35:47 AM
you're absolutely right re. coil selection.
I guess I've been doing this a while so I automatically think like that now, sad eh? :lol:
I'll go through that wiring on paper later, it's not something I'd put a lot of thought into yet.
F@#$'s with your head sometimes wiring up 4-poles doesn't it :lol:
It's even worse when you've got pickups from different makers, dummy coils and that kind of cr@p
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: HJM on May 26, 2005, 09:41:59 AM
Even more confusing when you forget which magnets you've flipped....
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: PhilKing on May 26, 2005, 10:44:39 AM
It really does your head in.  I spent about 2 hours working out how to get H/S/S series wiring in all 5 positions!  In the end I settled for both P/U in parallel because I couldn't work out how to get all 4 coils in series  :idiot2:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Ratrod on May 26, 2005, 11:30:22 AM
Quote
+1 on the upright Ratrod. I'd love one, but they ain't cheap!


You can get a cheap one for about 600 Euro's. King basses are indeed priceless.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on June 20, 2005, 10:46:32 AM
Grrrrrrr. Well, after waiting many weeks for a quote on the cover machining (a contact of my bro) it turns out the dude can't do it.
Very frustrating. Looks like I'll have to go back to the bare forbon look.

Tim, I'm a little paranoid about the fly lead concept, do you think that method of wiring has much durability? Have you got a pic of something similar?
I can put room for eyelets on it.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: R/2e on June 20, 2005, 05:52:35 PM
I made an experimental 8 string many years ago, around '67 I think, with one string above the standard 6, and one below. The top string was the problem, there weren't many gauges available then and I broke many banjo 5th strings before giving up and making it a 9 strng with the top three doubled. It was......er.....interesting to play, but didn't really do a lot for me. I guess if I did it again I would add two bass strings below the standard 6. I much preferred the 9 which was a lot easier to play than a 12 string, but gave a similar effect.  However, I have more than enough trouble with 6 strings to want any more now.................

Good luck though!
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on June 22, 2005, 09:46:46 AM
Very cool R/2e! Mine will have two lower strings.
I think I've got the pickup flatwork sorted now, finally.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: rinse_master on June 22, 2005, 10:01:17 AM
2 lower strings, are you going down to F# Meshuggah style or lower?

Sounds good though, have you got any pics/specs?

I am (one day) gonna build a Warmoth Baritone 7 string, which would be much the same thing, sans high E...
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on June 22, 2005, 12:14:35 PM
It'll be F# or G, I may tune the whole lot up a semitone, but I won't be playing Meshuggah on it, though I do like Fredrik's solo work :wink:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: rinse_master on June 22, 2005, 12:27:19 PM
Quote from: dpmasunder
It'll be F# or G, I may tune the whole lot up a semitone, but I won't be playing Meshuggah on it, though I do like Fredrik's solo work :wink:


Sounds cool, I look forward to seing your finished project.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on June 29, 2005, 09:09:25 AM
Update - the fibre is at the laser cutters, won't be long now :twisted:
Title: 8 string
Post by: tech33 on June 30, 2005, 08:33:33 AM
One question, why?
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on June 30, 2005, 09:09:55 AM
Because 7 isn't enough anymore  :lol:
With 8 strings I have more notes available at any given hand position, so in essense I'm lazy.
I find myself wanting to jump quickly between low and high notes, and wanting to do things that an 8 would make easier.
It's not just about getting lower notes, if that were the case I'd tune a bari 6 to F#.
Now you know.

One question for you. Why not? :wink:
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on July 01, 2005, 04:59:27 AM
Been playing with the design again :roll:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/dpmasunder/newbody20-bolton1.jpg)
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on July 09, 2005, 08:13:07 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/dpmasunder/pickupparts0.jpg)
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Steve-Mr Pig 2U on July 09, 2005, 11:44:52 AM
we look forward to working on them!
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on July 09, 2005, 12:44:07 PM
:lol: I missed the post office on Friday, they'll be on their way Monday.
Just 4 coils for the time being, should I send spares just in case?
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Steve-Mr Pig 2U on July 09, 2005, 01:30:50 PM
Just the 4 coils will be fine. Tims away this week, but we will get started on them asap!
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: dpmasunder on July 30, 2005, 06:02:09 AM
So, how's things progressing?? 8)
Title: 8 string Warpigs
Post by: dpmasunder on August 05, 2005, 11:35:14 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/dpmasunder/IM000640.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/dpmasunder/IM000644.jpg)
Awesome! Thanks BKP.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: rinse_master on August 05, 2005, 02:42:07 PM
Awesome indeed, let us know how they sound in the Guitar.

Are they modeled on a current BK?
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Steve-Mr Pig 2U on August 05, 2005, 07:22:14 PM
The wind was a variation on the warpig set, slightly tweaked for the 8 strings.
Title: The 8-string project - with Bareknuckles!
Post by: Davey on August 05, 2005, 08:30:39 PM
that is very nice!!!
wonder how everything will sound