Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Bainzy on April 08, 2006, 06:09:30 PM
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Who makes the best late 50's Les Paul Standard clones, that aren't Gibson? In particular, tobacco sunburst ones.
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I think Tokai would be the best bet
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i dunno can you get a tobacco sunburst gordon smith? theyre supposed to be good LP type guitars...
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which price range?
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Roughly the price of a new Gibson LP Standard I guess. Any cheaper would be a bonus.
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epiphone? or is that too obvious. i love my epi les paul standard.
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if you're willing to pay the price of a gibson, and a late fifties style les paul is what you want, why not a gibson? people moan about their quality control, and the ethics of the prs court case are a bit dodgy. however, if a les paul is what you want you can find good ones. my own standard is a stunner. overpriced? probably, but cheaper than a prs and nails the fifties vibe, which the prs won't. and you can walk into a dealers with your cash and take a gibson home, you'll have to wait months on the other "boutique" makes.
gotta admit though, if you save a few hundred quid and aren't a name snob, those tokai's can be great!
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Heritage make a great Les Paul but the headstock is different and kinda ugly, and they're more expensive than a Gibson.
Tokai make a wide range of Les Paul copies, with the high end being superior to a Historic, to the low end being comparable to an epiphone (but probably better). Tokai Forum (http://www.tokaiforum.com) has a lot of info about Tokais. Caution, Tokai also have a Korean brand which is actually quite nice and supposed to be better than an Epi, but is no substitute for a real Gibson (from what I've heard).
If used poses no problem for you Greco made an awesome series of replicas in the 80's called the Mint Collection. I have a 1982 '59 replica and it's incredible. 1piece mahogany back, 1 piece neck, Flamed maple bookmatched top (not veneer), Brazilian rosewood fretboard. Simply put, the materials used are better than on my 1981 Gibson Les Paul. The Neck pickup has a gorgeous tone and the bridge pickup (which was not original) is getting swapped out for a Nailbomb next week, when it finally gets here.
Burny also made a very good Les Paul replica. ( I use Replica instead of copy when i feel the craftmanship is on par with the original. )
Edwards (a subsiduary of ESP) have a line of fantastic looking Les Paul replicas including a Jimmy Page model that has been given the "relic" treatment. Fantastic looking. The Edwards logo is a little awkward looking though.
All the aforementioned guitars are Japanese and have the proper open book Les paul Headstock.
I have a Dean Evo that I really like that is very Les paul like without being a clone.
ESP's Eclipse line are a very nice pseudo Les paul as well.
My first guitar was a Columbus Les paul copy and it was... a piece of shite. I gigged with it for a couple years none the less!
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Epiphone Elitist (the Tak Matsumoto is a looker!) or Heritage. They are not more e xpensive than Gibbos, but cheaper. They go from 1600 € new, e.g. here: http://www.haarguitars.nl/test/Index2.htm
by the way, Erik van der Haar will also custom make you a Les Paul for less than a Gibson.
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how about an orville? have to import one though.
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Just get a custom build? somebody like feline or legra could do you one for around the price of a gibbo, i'd have thought...
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I can highly recommend the MIJ Tokai Love Rock's. Excellent guitars that are really well made, and don't cost the earth.
http://www.tokairegistry.com
http://www.tokaiforum.com
(http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/misericordedoom/Tokai_tastic.jpg)
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if you're willing to pay the price of a gibson, and a late fifties style les paul is what you want, why not a gibson? people moan about their quality control, and the ethics of the prs court case are a bit dodgy. however, if a les paul is what you want you can find good ones. my own standard is a stunner. overpriced? probably, but cheaper than a prs and nails the fifties vibe, which the prs won't. and you can walk into a dealers with your cash and take a gibson home, you'll have to wait months on the other "boutique" makes.
gotta admit though, if you save a few hundred quid and aren't a name snob, those tokai's can be great!
I'd just hate to play a guitar that I know the company didn't really care about making. If I'm paying that much for a guitar, I don't even want there to even be a remote chance of quality control issues, Fender nail it with high end guitars costing hundreds less. I think I'd actually go so far as to say that I'm a brand snob against Gibson. I'd only own a Gibson if it was at least 7 or so years old.
I'm not really looking for boutique, and I'm not actually looking for one right now. The thing is, when I get one I want a guitar that really has character, that has had a lot of attention to detail added to it (more 'care' than things like decoration though) and a life of it's own.
If Feline or Tokai could provide me with such a guitar, that is anatomically correct to an LP, and cost the same or less, I'd be over the moon.
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http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/index.html
94,500.00 JPY Japan Yen = 459.040 GBP United Kingdom Pounds
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http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/index.html
Model E-LP-90LTC
94,500.00 JPY Japan Yen = 459.040 GBP United Kingdom Pounds
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The Tokai's are near perfect replica's of the '58 LP spec's, and Tokai do have an eye for detail (as do Greco, Burny & Edwards). Obviously, the tonewoods are from modern stocks, and the finish of the "standard" production models is poly, though the higher models are nitro finished.
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I absolutly love the Edwards guitars with the E LP 90LTC being my fav.
I would just love to get one and load it with Rebel Yells...
Does anyone know who will import these to the UK?
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You could do it by yourselves if you'd find a dealer in JP to ship to Europe.
You'd have to expect
-Price of the guitar
-Shipping cost
-3% customs duty
-17% VAT on top of all
This can make the deal quite expensive but could still be worthwile. I did this for my Axis from Canada, but still made a bargain.
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There are a number of Japanese Guitar stores that will export a guitar for you. Places like Ishibashi, Guitar Universe, Katana Guitars etc will pack them up and ship them out to you, the only thing you have to worry about is dealing with UK Custom's & Excise if they stop your package.
A rough guide to excise duty is about 22-23% of the purchase price. This is 17.5% for VAT, and the rest (4-5%) is Excise Duty.
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Katana Guitars
I got an Edwards LP from Katana (via ebay us) and all in alll, with the customs etc. it came ot £600.
The guitar is excellent, very well made, tidy and totally outplays my Gibson LP Studio. All of the other japanese copies are said to be of comparablre quality.
I have just about finished pimping mine up (tonepros brisge/tailpiece, locking tuners, BK's)
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corrr..... thats a beauty..... gonna remember them for when i have the cash...
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I'd have to say Tokai....
Superb quality and value for money. The Korean ones will easily give Epi a run for their money and the Jap ones are just awesome. The best way to describe it really is that you get the same sort of quality as a Gibson but for les money, ie, the higher up the quality scale you go you can pair a Gibbo next to a Tokai and the quality more-or-less equals out, but the Tokai will always be a tad behind on price.... ie better value for money...
BUT, you don't get that Gibson headstock!!! (although Tokais are some of the closest copies!!) :D
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If you get a MIJ Tokai you DO get the Gibson open Headstock.
I've never played an Edwards, but if I were to buy a LP copy new it'd be my choice right now, even over Tokai.
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In 2002 Gibson revamped the Les Paul with much acclaim!!! I have played tons of Les Pauls and I can honestly say that you wont go far wrong with this option, get the 50's neck and your away. I went for the 60s neck in trans amber and I just loved the damn thing......... :cry:
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i would definately go for a tokai if i were you, they really are very good guitars especially when you take into account the price. the absolute top wack LP copies are about £800 give or take depending where you get it from and they are fantastic instruments in my opinion.
ive got a tokai, its not an LP but i love it........and now i want their version of the LP standard.....dammit, look what you all have turned me into, i want soooo many guitars i can't have, it's goin to kill me, stop showing me so many pics of guitars i want!!! :roll:
i must find money!!!
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If you get a MIJ Tokai you DO get the Gibson open Headstock.
Not strictly true mate.
The true open book headstock is only available on MIJ Tokais FROM Japanese dealers. The UK spec models have a minor difference in the form of a little dimple in the centre of the "spine", if you will, of the open book.
This I believe is due to legal issues with Gibson.
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yeah thats true, mine has a little spikey thingy right in the middle. it is barely noticable though really, it looks quite good i think.
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If you get a MIJ Tokai you DO get the Gibson open Headstock.
Not strictly true mate.
The true open book headstock is only available on MIJ Tokais FROM Japanese dealers. The UK spec models have a minor difference in the form of a little dimple in the centre of the "spine", if you will, of the open book.
This I believe is due to legal issues with Gibson.
Here in North America, the only way to get MIJ Tokais is to order from Japan (or the UK I guess!) so I wasn't aware that they were available domestically for you UK people and apologize. Any guitars that Tokai intend for export out of Japan have the little dimple.
I heard that the MIK Tokais we get here in Canada are different than the UK versions. The Canadian MIK Love Rocks are Mahogany body, Maple top, and maple neck. I heard that the UK Love Rocks have an alder body or something like that. Is this true? (I'm only referring to the MIK version, I know the MIJ versions are Gibson spec or better).
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Here in North America, the only way to get MIJ Tokais is to order from Japan (or the UK I guess!) so I wasn't aware that they were available domestically for you UK people and apologize. Any guitars that Tokai intend for export out of Japan have the little dimple.
I heard that the MIK Tokais we get here in Canada are different than the UK versions. The Canadian MIK Love Rocks are Mahogany body, Maple top, and maple neck. I heard that the UK Love Rocks have an alder body or something like that. Is this true? (I'm only referring to the MIK version, I know the MIJ versions are Gibson spec or better).
Sorry, I hadn't clocked you were not in the UK!
I think MIK Love Rocks have an Alder back up to an LS70, which is MIJ and thus, Mahogany.
Tops vary depending on model.
MIJ ones I think all bodies are mahogany and tops are maple
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There's plenty of people on the Tokai forum in the US & Canada who have bought guitars direct from Japan without problems. Japanese home market models don't have the same headstock worries as the rest of the world, so the "open book" headstock is still readily available over there.
The UK market MIK Love Rock's are the same as the Canadian market one's, I know Epiphone used to use alder on some of their LP's, unsure about the use of alder by Tokai. If alder is used, it would be to replace the maple in the tops, and then covered with a veneer. All the MIK Tokai's I've seen have looked right, backs as well (unlike some of the Epi's I've seen!), but at the end of the day, if the guitar feels right and plays right for you, then get it.
MIJ versions are direct replica's of '58 LP models.
http://www.tokaiforum.com
http://www.tokairegistry.com
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Tokais are nice. Agiles are nice as well.
www.rondomusic.net
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I've got a fair few Tokai and they represent excellent value for money. I have a Tokai LP it's even called a Les Paul Reborn !!
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/chrisheyes/Les%20Paul%20Reborn/IMG_1952.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/chrisheyes/Les%20Paul%20Reborn/Body.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/chrisheyes/Les%20Paul%20Reborn/Headstock.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/chrisheyes/Guitars/Reborn.jpg)
One piece mahogany back, one piece solid maple cap, nitro paint
really good relic job. This one is on of twelve made in 2001 when Tokai
started their comeback to the UK market.
I can't think of a better value stock guitar to put Bare Knuckle Pickups in.
Fender Japan Strats and Tele's are now made in the Tokai Factory - Testament to how good their copies are.
The top of the line Tokai Les Paul at the moment is the LS380
It comes with a very heavy price tag.
List price in Japan of 380,00 Yen = £1,855
Billy Gibbons uses Tokai Love Rocks on tour !! - He knows a thing or two about tone and so did Stevie Ray Vaughan - another Tokai user
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/chrisheyes/Guitars/Picture009.jpg)
The Blackmore Style Strat has scalloped neck and BKP Trillogies - Awesome !!
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:o :D
That is an awesome collection mate!!!
The "Les Paul reborns" are wortha few quid these day I believe... they were the very controversial 80s made ones were they not? Supposedly better than the originals.
Tokai Love Rocks really are very very good guitars, right across teh range.
Its just a pain in the arse that at the moment there seem to be real problems with supply!
indeed, the Springy Sounds are totally unavailable cos the factory is too busy making Fenders!!!
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Thanks Jamieh, I've since added to the collection :oops:
The Les Paul Reborn I have wasn't made in the 80's. It was made in
2001 by Tokai UK, a prototype to see if there was a market for Relic
versions of Tokai's- a Copy of a Copy made to look old !
12 were made and their list price in 2001 was £1200 !!