Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: mattaki on October 14, 2017, 12:05:24 PM
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Hi, as the title says, I have a Gibson Les Paul Traditional (2016) with covered 57 Classic and a 57 Classic Plus in the bridge. Tim recommended Riff Raffs for this swap for the kind of sound I was going for (classic/indie rock, big open chords or power chords mostly on the bridge pickup through a Marshall JTM45 or Plexi on the edge of breakup). I have BKP Nantuckets in an SG and BKP Flat '50s in a Telecaster and love them both for their take on a clearer version of a classic sound.
Any experience out there what I could expect the differences to be? I know the magnet differences (Alnico 2 with the 57 Classic vs 5 with the Riff Raff) and have read everything possible about them. I also saw that the bridge on the Riff Raffs is a little less hot than the 57 Classic Plus. I was just looking for real world experience about what it sounds like when all is said and done.
Any opinions about hearing a difference with covered vs. uncovered in this guitar? And anybody changed out their wiring on a Gibson Traditional (2016 in this case) to a 50s wiring harness and any comments about any improvement?
Thanks in advanced for your experiences!
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the riff raff sounds edgier, a lot clearer and has better note separation on chords
the 57 classic plus sounds a bit more mellow and compressed where the riff raff is sparkly and spanky
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Look at Mules.
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I agree with ericsabbath on RR vs 57/57+
On covers vs no covers - I'm sure there must be a difference, but in the one comparison I've experienced I heard none. This was 57/57+ in a 2016 Standard Faded I got earlier this year. It came with no covers, I put covers on without changing the strings. I wanted to hear a difference (even though I didn't want the difference!), but I couldn't honestly tell.
On the subject of replacing the existing wiring (I'm guessing the volumes are 300K Linear pots, the tone 300K Log pots, and modern wiring? - they are on my 2012 Trad). If you replace with 50s and 500K log pots it WILL make a difference, whether it's an improvement is down to your personal taste and how you are used to using your guitar's volume and tone controls (and your amp).
I personally find 50s and 500K log to be a downgrade - and I've tried to love it on and off for years.
Here's how I learnt it. When I got my Traditional it was "WOWW! This is how I want a humbucking guitar to behave". So I decided not to touch the Trad's wiring when I swapped the pickups - I'd even bought a set of the 550K log ones to do it, they're still in the spares box somewhere. My reasoning was it works in a "WOW" way, why change it? I was scared it would lose the mojo if I changed the wiring.
It took me a while to find out what was actually in there, and then several months to accept that 300K linear pots were what I really wanted for volume (I'd been putting the 500K log ones on as upgrades to guitars because that's what everyone says is "better" on the interweb).
It took me several months to figure out why the Trad worked (and a 335 I have does) and my other humbucker guitars weren't so co-operative... It's the "naff gibson 300K linear pots"!!!
As an experiment, I replaced the stuff I upgraded in an SG years ago when I installed Riff Raffs. I took all the "upgraded" wiring out and replaced it with 300K linear pots. Suddenly I bonded with the guitar, and the Riff Raffs(!)... some five years after getting them!! (I'd always liked the guitar pickups ok, but now it's "Awwww, that's GORGEOUS").
I fiddled with some other guitars and ended up with the following conclusions (for MY humbucking guitars):
If the guitar/pickup combo is "dull" and it has 300 in the volume, then I'll try a 500. If it's too bright and has 500, I'll try a 300. (Eg I find 57s a bit "gritty/fizzy" with 500s). If i'm happy already, I don't care what the number is.
For the log vs linear - using the guitar's volume as an "overdrive" control and wanting 3-5 to be almost the same volume as 8-10, but CLEAN... then I found I want linear volume pots. But I can cope with a master volume guitar that has a log pot (volume drops off badly after 7-8). A guitar with two volumes and middle position - I HAVE to have linear to be happy.
On the tone controls though, I seem to prefer log, but I am getting used to linear on the guitars I've installed it on (Nearly all the change seems to be down at 1-4 on the tone if it's linear).
50s wiring - I HATE it! lol
What 50s does is retains more top-end as you turn down the volume. This is perfect if you really want/need it. When I was learning, I would have killed for that, but I didn't know about it. Instead, I learnt to embrace the slight loss of top-end and USE that sound. Same as "treble bleed" circuits, 50s just makes the pickup sound thin and weedy to me. I even replaced pickups in a telecaster once before I realised it was the treble-bleed capacitor that was making the stock pickups sound so yuk and puny!
However, lot's of folks swear by the 50s wiring, it works for them and makes the controls more usable.
Pickup choice: I'd agree with Tim for what you're describing. Riff Raffs give me a more "rock thing", I find them harder and more focused than, say, Mules or Stormies (I've never gone hotter than these three for BKPs), so they do that crisp and "well-defined" 70s/early80s power chord sound, the riffing and chugging needed, best of the three pickups. You can do it with any of them, but RRs get that bit done best. My fave BKP humbuckers are Stormies, and like Telerocker says, look at Mules... but from my experience, I'd make the same suggestion as Tim for the music you're describing (and he knows his pickups better than me!!)
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Thank you immensely for your in-depth response!