Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: brianhenson on January 06, 2018, 04:04:53 AM
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Has anyone played both of these pickups? How do they compare?
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Sorry, but everyone here is just gonna tell you to get BKP ;).
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Sorry, but everyone here is just gonna tell you to get BKP ;).
Honestly so far that hasn't always been my experience on here.
But I'm not asking which to get, just wondering how they compare to each other. If the BKPs are better I want to know WHY.
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BKPs are scatter wound, so that SHOULD result in better clairity... I haven't played either of the pickups, but comparing SD and BKP models I've played, I always prefered BKP.
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BKPs are scatter wound, so that SHOULD result in better clairity... I haven't played either of the pickups, but comparing SD and BKP models I've played, I always prefered BKP.
Compared to Gibson or Duncans pickups BKP's are a step up in noteseparation, dynamics, clarity and balance.
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Nazgul and aftermath are supposed to be the same kinda thing, but in reality, aftermath is a lot tighter and clearer.
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The Stormy Mondays are scatter wound, with unsymmetrical coils. This gives more subtlety, especially in the top end.
I think that Seymour Duncan pickups are very well made, having taken apart several. Strangely though, I never got on with the sound of them. I have a couple of JBs I did magnet swaps to which sound pretty good. And in the neck, I like the Jazz since its good and bright. But honestly, thats it.
BKPs are still my favourite brand by far, but I also like Lollar and The Creamery. Certain DiMarzio pickups I think sound great too - the D-Activator, SDS, Area 67, ProTrack and Virtual Solo for example. DiMarzio's construction clearly seems cheaper than Duncan, but they seem to spend alot of attention on design and aim to solve guitarist's problems. Its not all roses with DiMarzio, alot of their stuff is muddy and ugly sounding.
But yeah, if you're weighing up Seth Lovers or Stormy Mondays, then I would clearly go for the Stormy Mondays.
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You definitely CAN get a good sound out of duncans too, but BKPs just tend to sound better...
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Chatting with Ben @ BKP I think I may be going in a different direction. He recommended the Crawler, which I had written off as it is in their "contemporary" category and I assumed it would be too high output. It looks like it can even do the clean jazzy neck pickup thing, which I love even though I can't play jazz to save my life.
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OK, the crawler bridge is definitely looking like the right direction. For the neck I'm thinking either the Riff Raff or the VHII. I like the sound of both of them. Since they'd be in the neck I don't want too much bass or low mids, but I also don't want too much attack on the high strings.
Edit: Pretty sure I'm going to get a VHII neck and a Crawler bridge.
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OK, the crawler bridge is definitely looking like the right direction. For the neck I'm thinking either the Riff Raff or the VHII. I like the sound of both of them. Since they'd be in the neck I don't want too much bass or low mids, but I also don't want too much attack on the high strings.
Edit: Pretty sure I'm going to get a VHII neck and a Crawler bridge.
The Crawler has a lot of PAF-pedigree, is mediumoutput and not so much hotter than say a VHII-bridge. Cleans up and splits really well. It has more compression than a Mule by example, but that is to be expected. In return you get a thick juicy tone that is so rewarding, just as the growl when the Crawler gets pushed.
If your guitar has a bright natural the Crawler is a good choice, but if dark I would choose something brighter.
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OK, the crawler bridge is definitely looking like the right direction. For the neck I'm thinking either the Riff Raff or the VHII. I like the sound of both of them. Since they'd be in the neck I don't want too much bass or low mids, but I also don't want too much attack on the high strings.
Edit: Pretty sure I'm going to get a VHII neck and a Crawler bridge.
The Crawler has a lot of PAF-pedigree, is mediumoutput and not so much hotter than say a VHII-bridge. Cleans up and splits really well. It has more compression than a Mule by example, but that is to be expected. In return you get a thick juicy tone that is so rewarding, just as the growl when the Crawler gets pushed.
If your guitar has a bright natural the Crawler is a good choice, but if dark I would choose something brighter.
Thanks for the info. I'm not 100% sure whether my guitar is really naturally "bright" or "dark". The DiMarzio 36th anniversaries it currently has are quite a bit brighter than the stock pickups were. The high e is especially bright, but I also play 9s. But the bridge pickup is a bit lacking in clarity and note separation. The neck is mostly fine.
It's an unusual wood combination, it's an LP type but has an alder body with a maple veneer and a mahogany (technically nato, or "eastern" mahogany) neck with rosewood fingerboard.
I want more clarity and note separation but also more low frequency extension than the bridge pickup currently has.
If it helps, these are the two styles of music I listen to and play predominantly, though not exclusively. They're both quite different from each other. I have no need to cop these exact tones though:
https://soundcloud.com/kingrazor/bethelbucker1
https://youtu.be/cq51QQLkZuU?t=18
If it matters, I don't really ever play the bridge pickup completely clean. I do like to play the middle position though, and that I play totally clean with no break up most of the time.
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Thanks for the info. I'm not 100% sure whether my guitar is really naturally "bright" or "dark". The DiMarzio 36th anniversaries it currently has are quite a bit brighter than the stock pickups were. The high e is especially bright, but I also play 9s. But the bridge pickup is a bit lacking in clarity and note separation. The neck is mostly fine.
"pickup is a bit lacking in clarity and note separation" <- thats the typical DiMarzio problem. The Stormy Mondays use better materials, particularly the wire and baseplate which will help with this. The A2 magnet in the Stormy Mondays will soften the attack too.
I'm sure you would enjoy a number of pickups in the BKP range. If Ben suggests Crawlers, they should be a good choice.
What bands and tones are you after?
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For Jazz you will certainly like the Mule-neck. It can be paired with a Crawler-bridge. A middle of the road-solution would be an Abraxas-set.
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Thanks for the info. I'm not 100% sure whether my guitar is really naturally "bright" or "dark". The DiMarzio 36th anniversaries it currently has are quite a bit brighter than the stock pickups were. The high e is especially bright, but I also play 9s. But the bridge pickup is a bit lacking in clarity and note separation. The neck is mostly fine.
"pickup is a bit lacking in clarity and note separation" <- thats the typical DiMarzio problem. The Stormy Mondays use better materials, particularly the wire and baseplate which will help with this. The A2 magnet in the Stormy Mondays will soften the attack too.
I'm sure you would enjoy a number of pickups in the BKP range. If Ben suggests Crawlers, they should be a good choice.
What bands and tones are you after?
Yeah Ben suggested either the crawler, holy diver or possibly black dog for the bridge. For the neck I'm looking at either the Riff Raff or VHII, but leaning more toward the VHII. I asked Ben for a neck pickup similar to the crawler but "livelier" and those were the two he recommended.
I can't think of any single band or guitarist that has the exact tone I'm after, but these are the two styles of music I play most often:
https://soundcloud.com/kingrazor/bethelbucker1
https://youtu.be/cq51QQLkZuU?t=18
I've never really cared about coping exact tones, I prefer to do my own thing really, but my sound should also realistically work in the style of music I play.
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For Jazz you will certainly like the Mule-neck. It can be paired with a Crawler-bridge. A middle of the road-solution would be an Abraxas-set.
I like the whole Larry Carlton clean jazzy 335 neck pickup thing, but I really don't play any jazz, so as long as the neck humbucker can get a nice clean tone that's fine.
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For Jazz you will certainly like the Mule-neck. It can be paired with a Crawler-bridge. A middle of the road-solution would be an Abraxas-set.
I like the whole Larry Carlton clean jazzy 335 neck pickup thing, but I really don't play any jazz, so as long as the neck humbucker can get a nice clean tone that's fine.
No problem to get these tones with the Mule, Abraxas and Crawler.
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I really like the black dog bridge based on descriptions and some of the tone samples I've heard, but I was watching this video:
https://youtu.be/Rjr2SVKKxjk?t=155
And it seems way too bright and thin in that, compared to the 57 classic. It's got clarity for sure, but seemingly too much so. But I know that could just be this guy's particular rig setup.
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I really like the black dog bridge based on descriptions and some of the tone samples I've heard, but I was watching this video:
https://youtu.be/Rjr2SVKKxjk?t=155
And it seems way too bright and thin in that, compared to the 57 classic. It's got clarity for sure, but seemingly too much so. But I know that could just be this guy's particular rig setup.
Well.... it's Youtube. Ampsettings, recordingtechnique, all plays a role. Some vids sound good, some bad. This vid is by no means a showcase for the Black Dog. Anway, you want a Crawler ;-)
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I listened to the audio clips you linked to, and I think you would enjoy that Crawler, perhaps with a Mule neck, or just a full Crawler set.
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So I spoke to Ben again specifically talking about the styles of music I'm mainly playing and he's leaning towards the black dog.
I like the crawler and think I'd really like it for playing at home, but I fell like the extra presence in the black dog will probably work better in a band situation.
I think either will probably work fine, just down to what my priority is.
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I've got a Crawler set in one of my ESP Eclipses (the Eclipse is a slightly thinner bodied and brighter version of a Les Paul). The Crawler bridge is great in there - it's not the brightest pickup but it's got great string separation and clarity which balance this nicely. I use that particular guitar for a lot of New Wave type stuff and it really covers everything from Duran Duran to Ultravox to the Sisters of Mercy. As you have already noted, the neck is quite thick and jazzy and although I bought a VH2 neck as a brighter replacement quite a while ago, I've never really got around to changing it over.
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I'm about 80% sure I'm going with the VHII neck and Black Dog bridge.
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I know where you're coming from with the Black Dog, I would like one day to compare a set side-by-side with my Crawlers.