Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: HTH AMPS on April 14, 2006, 09:40:18 PM
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ok, here's the situation... I've sold my old SG on ebay now the seller is saying theres an 8" crack in the guitar. "Wait a minute" I hear you say, "I would have noticed an 8" crack in the guitar".
The buyer is refusing to send me any pictures and says its an old crack (therefore not damaged during transit).
I basically don't want to end up with a damaged guitar back and end up seriously out of pocket with ebay/paypal fees. It sounds like the buyer has serious buyers remorse.
What are MY options as a seller since the buyer is threatening fraud claims with the police and credit card company. All this sounds WAY over the top for what I considered a great guitar with no structural defects.
:(
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I think he has to PROVE damage (would be same with shipping insurance).
Maybe trying to pull a "fast one".
I would demand proof.
Did you send it with insurance (I always stipulate this as a must)?
Do you have any pics of it before you sent it? (I also do this for my records/my insurance company).
Basically, legally he has to prove it is damaged and was "misrepresented" in the advert.
Sounds like a nightmare, good luck.
I would tell him to send proof of crack AND get a reputable repairer/luthier to verify the "crack", otherwise he/she is ON crack!
The Police/Credit Company can investigate but are thorough and he/she will be in BIG trouble if not telling the truth.
Sounds like they indeed have remorse one way or another and are going for a "shock" refund.
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Clear out your paypal account of all the money in it NOW. Transfer it all into your bank account. Paypal will freeze the money for months if the guy makes a complaint, so don't risk it.
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yes, I sent it insured upto £2500 via DHL, should have a few pix knocking around but no real 'detail' shots. the buyer hasn't even described where this crack is supposed to be on the guitar.
my gut feeling is that it's lacquer checking on the guitar and he thinks it's a crack but since he's refusing to send me any pictures & is trying to strongarm me into a refund I've got nothing to go on :(
I'm gonna go to the Police myself tomorrow to see where I stand and what to expect if/when he lodges these proceedings.
Bainzy - I have no cash in my Paypal account but the guy paid via Paypal with a credit card and I think he's gonna do a chargeback :x
:twisted:
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do you have his adress? go round and c--k punch him. should sort out any difficulties.
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He HAS to have proof and a case to get his money back.
I would report HIM to ebay and paypal, inform your bank and police and his credit company.
Sounds like HE is trying to be fraudulant!
He CANNOT demand anything without PROOF!
Also, if it was insure he HAS to claim with them NOT you (as you say it was not damaged).
This STINKS of a scam oh his part.
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The buyer is saying it's got a crack in the guitar but that it's an old crack/repair (i.e. it didn't happen in transit). Now I think I'd have noticed a big crack in my guitar over the two years I've had it. Basically he's saying I knew about it and sent him the guitar anyway (the damn cheek of some people) :evil:
I'm expecting to get totally screwed on this one since I've heard so many Paypal horror stories on things like this :(
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:D Right the 1st thing to do is calm down !!!!!!
The police have more than enough real crime to deal with they are not going to get involved in this if they can possibly avoid it. You need to get in touch with Ebay & tell them that this is a attempted fraud case being perpitrated by your buyer. He is trying to get the insurance to pay out on something that isn`t broken or by his own admission wasn`t broken in transport.
You must of posted pics of the guitar ? can you see any cracks on the body/neck ?
Post a negative feed back on him telling other sellers to be aware this guy is a time waster
The law basically comes down to being "Buyer beware" so there`s nothing the police actually can do.
:D 8)
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Point 1: The police have nothing to do with it - sale of goods at an auction is largely civil matter and nothing to do with the criminal remit of the police. Contrary to popular belief there is no actual crime of 'fraud'. Fraud is category of crimes such as 'obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception' under the Theft Act. Some form of deception would have to be proved. None of these relate to genuine sales of goods, even if the goods have defects. In reality the police simply won't get involved.
Point 2: In terms of civil law the evidental rule is 'he who asserts must prove' - i.e. the buyer must prove the defect - If he is not showing you a picture of the alleged damage then some suspicion has to be raised that he is not telling the truth - keep your emails and print them out show you can demonstrate his refusal to prove his case.
There are a whole bundle of implied terms under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 - the most important being s.14 - which states that goods must be of satisfactory quality. With regard to second hand goods such as guitars sold on ebay the test is the standard the a 'reasonable man' would regard as satisfactory - so scratches, chips and dings are likely to be part and parcel of a second hand guitar.
But the main poin is this - s.14 only applies to goods sold 'in the course of a business'. So s.14 doesn't apply to a one off sale of a guitar by a private person. Unless you sell on ebay regularly, there is unlikely to be any implied term as to satisfactory quality.
As to misrepresentation - what representation did you give? A misrepresentation must be a representation of past or present fact - you can't make a representation from silence.
As to the credit card company - under the consumer credit act 1974 they are in fact the legal purchasers of the goods and so have a contract with you. They may therefore be liable to repay the buyer.
Your buyer maybe trying to blag his money back from the credit card company and leave them to sue you (I doubt they would as there is no recovery of legal costs in claims under £5000 and so it would not be cost effective). As said above I would therefore keep all correspondence to show that you asked for proof of the defect and that is was refused, that your ebay pictures show no crack and that you did not sell it in this condition.
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Ah well, looks like I'm about to get screwed by paypal - my account is showing £1285 in the red with a dispute open. This will be the last time I use Paypal - you always think it'll happen to someone else, never you. This sucks big time!!!
:(
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This happened to a friend of mine who was in a dispute - he reported Paypal to the fraud section of his bank - and Paypal paid back pretty damn quick.
Furthermore Paypal are obliged to investigate chargebacks from credit cards - so complain to them and to trading standards.
Of course as a charge back has happened you are are entitled to your SG back - so demand it back from the buyer or tell him you'll sue him.
Sorry it has got so nasty for you.
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i closed my pay pal account due to this kinda cr@p going on. it's the kinda thing you think will never happen to you, but its the kind of thing that does.
really sorry you had this experience mate, its a bitch aint it.
i'm in the middle of being ripped off as well i think. i've been waiting for the guitar i bought off this guy since the 28th of march. i live in manchester and its only coming from birmingham. the cheque i sent him has cleared from my bank and he has the money but no sign of the guitar.
i emailed him today asking where it was. if it doesn't arrive tomorrow i'm gunna get his ass in trouble. the thing is i'm not sure what steps to take to do this.
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Don't worry about the paypal defecit - they can't legally take the money from your bank/cards without your consent. They'll harrass you for about a year for the money, but stay resilient. If they send round heavies to try collect the money, just don't let them into your house and you'll be fine.
If you know what you're doing, there's no way paypal will get your money and you'll have no problems. Check out www.paypalsucks.com as there's loads of people there that have had this problem, and just follow what they've done.
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well, the buyer has emailed me saying the guitar is back in the post so I'll be checking out this supposed crack in the guitar. 'If' I pay Paypal back I'll be losing around £100 on the whole deal in fees (doesn't that suck!!!).
I suppose I could hang in there with Paypal and screw 'em over (one back for the people, yay!!!) :wink: I'm just not thinking it's worth risking my credit rating or having bailifs round.
I'll most likely cut my losses and cancel my Paypal account. I've already sold other stuff on ebay this week and I'm enforcing my 'no paypal' rule.
:twisted:
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Seriously, if they're making you pay the fees, don't pay them a penny back of the £1285.
Paypal won't let you close the account with an open dispute, but I don't think it should affect your credit rating. They won't miss the money - they've probably extorted hundreds/thousands times more than that from users in the past.
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Well, I got the guitar back now I have the cash AND the guitar (heh) :D :wink:
Seriously though, this is so not a crack that it's not even funny - its a huge waste of my time. I've got two luthiers lined up to give me written appraisals of this 'crack'.
:twisted:
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what is it then dude if its not a crack? nice one bout guitar and money... hehehe :twisted:
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If it's deemed not your fault by the luthier, get the luthier to write a note saying so. Photocopy it and send the copy, along with the guitar, to the buyer - and reverse the charges if possible on the shipment.
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Sambo, it's a long scratch - looks like the guitar has slid down something and there lacquer has scratched. The mark goes across the grain of the wood which basically doesn't happen with a crack/split unless you snap the neck (which clearly isn't the case here).
Bainsy, I've spoken to one local luthier tonight who has agreed to look at the guitar and will give me a verbal opinion. However, he won't give me a letterheaded appraisal since he's done it before and he ended up with loads of paperwork. I've got another couple of luthiers lined up and hopefully they will do an official report for me.
:twisted: