Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Obo on April 16, 2019, 03:54:25 PM
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Hi Guys,
My first post :
I have Gibson Les Paul Standard 2017 with Gibson Burstbucker Proīs pickups. I am not really happy with them. The bridge pickup is always sounding thin but not very tigh and harsh at same time at band volumes. On the other hand the neck one is really woofy, muddy and undefined. It is next to impossible to balance those.
Prior to Gibson, I had Epiphone les paul custom pro with epiphone pro buckers 2 and 3 and those were much better in terms of balance, the same thing with my esp eclipse with emgīs.
I am looking for something really versatile. I am using now fractal axe ax8 with 2 Friedman ASM-12 frfr speakers, so tons of tone sculpting options :)
I am looking for a great neck pickup to compliment BKP Black dog in the bridge (I believe BD is made exactly for me) :)
I am thinking about getting maybe the Mule for neck position ?
Do you think it will be the right choice next to Black Dog tone/output wise?
I need a neck pickup which is capable of nice full-bodied, warm but still defined and tight humbucker tones and chimey, a bit like fender type tones when using in single coil mode.
Sure I know it will be still les paul but you know, something close to those jangly tones :)
thanks in advance for your reply and sorry for my english, I am from Slovakia.
Best regards, Tomas.
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I think you want a RiffRaff-neck. That's the brightest of the vintagehot neckpickups. I think the Mule-neck might be just a tad too warm for what you're after.
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Hey Telerocker,
thanks for your reply.
Ben French wrote me in email :
A Mule neck is a very popular option and is often used with the Black Dog bridge. The Mule is smooth and rich. In full humbucker mode it is nice and full with useable single coil tones. The other option is to move up to a VHII. This uses the same classic wire but is a bit stronger and with alnico v magnet. The VHII has a stronger screw coil so will definitely offer a better single coil tone.
Now I am starting to think that maybe Mule/Riff Raff would be not hot enough in single coild mode... So maybe VHII or Abraxas ?
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Hey Telerocker,
thanks for your reply.
Ben French wrote me in email :
A Mule neck is a very popular option and is often used with the Black Dog bridge. The Mule is smooth and rich. In full humbucker mode it is nice and full with useable single coil tones. The other option is to move up to a VHII. This uses the same classic wire but is a bit stronger and with alnico v magnet. The VHII has a stronger screw coil so will definitely offer a better single coil tone.
Now I am starting to think that maybe Mule/Riff Raff would be not hot enough in single coild mode... So maybe VHII or Abraxas ?
If you desire beefy splitted tones you need to take a neckpickup with a little higher output. Personally I think the in between sound of a Mule-set delivers better crispy singlecoil-esque tones than a splitted neck-Mule, but that's my preference.
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I agree with Ben, the Mule is an astonishing neck pickup, I love it in my PRS SC245, but it's not that great when splitting coils. It sounds too thin and weak, I almost never use it in split mode. It's not a dark pickup at all, but neither is my guitar, so if your guitar lacks high frequencies, maybe you should check even brighter pickups, as Riff Raff or VHII
VHII is a great pickup too, brighter and a bit thinner, compared with the Mule splits better but lacks a bit of "character" for my taste
I've never tried a Riff Raff, so I don't know how good it's when splitting.
I had a quite dark Les Paul with Rebel Yell bridge and Emerald neck, great combo too, I guess the Emerald should work fine with the Black Dog too, but I didn't installed the split-coil in that guitar, so I don't know if it's a good "splitter"
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Thank you guys.
Ok, got that.
What would be the best neck pickup for Black dog bridge for overall versatility ? Donīt mind now splitting options :)
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The brightest of the hotter BK neck pickups would be the Nailbomb neck
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If you don't split: check out the RiffRaff-samples as I suggested.
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I'm curious why you're discounting the Black Dog neck as an option? The calibrated sets exist for a reason, unless you're looking for something specific?
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I'm curious why you're discounting the Black Dog neck as an option? The calibrated sets exist for a reason, unless you're looking for something specific?
I think that BD neck pickup will be muddy in my les paul, I need some brighter neck pickup. But, to be honest, I dont know if my les paul is darker or brighter by nature and have no idea how to found that. It is a weight relieved so maybe itīs a brighter one ?
The bridge pup is always shrill and neck one woofy, so Im guessing bridge BD, and neck Mule/VhII as suggested
The BD for bridge is my choice because I think this pup will have nice inherent full tone.
When I am trying to make my burstbucker nice and full (kind of like a Hetfields load/reload tone), it only gets woofier and boomier as I am addind bass/depth. I hope BD will solve that.
Btw, Im new to les paul and Bkp world. I am always wondering when reading on forum and see how you know which les paul is dark and which bright, it was my understanding that standard les paul is dark and they are installing burstbucker pickups to compensate😃
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Potvalues make a difference too.
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Potvalues make a difference too.
Can you reccomend any ? Which one should I buy for bridge and neck ?
I know nothing about that :)
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Potvalues make a difference too.
Can you reccomend any ? Which one should I buy for bridge and neck ?
I know nothing about that :)
Gibson uses 300K pots, but check it before changing pots. Personally I would go up to 500k or 550K. It wil brighten up your guitar for sure. You could start with changing pots and see what that does to your sound. The neckpickup will have more chime. But anyway, I don't hold much of the Burstbuckers. BKP will be a step up in dynamics, clarity and refinement.
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I have Black Dog/Riff Raff in a Les Paul and its a great combo.
The Riff Raff splits well in the neck too.
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Potvalues make a difference too.
Can you reccomend any ? Which one should I buy for bridge and neck ?
I know nothing about that :)
Gibson uses 300K pots, but check it before changing pots. Personally I would go up to 500k or 550K. It wil brighten up your guitar for sure. You could start with changing pots and see what that does to your sound. The neckpickup will have more chime. But anyway, I don't hold much of the Burstbuckers. BKP will be a step up in dynamics, clarity and refinement.
Thank you for your info :)
I have decided to order BD for bridge and VHII for a neck. As Ben suggested, VHII has a bit more power so itīs a better choice for single coil kind of sound.
I need my bridge pup to be darker as it is now and neck one the exact opposite.
Maybe I donīt need new pots at all. Will try first new pickups, and will see what if that is enough :)
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I have Black Dog/Riff Raff in a Les Paul and its a great combo.
The Riff Raff splits well in the neck too.
Do you have enough output compared to bridge humbucker when you split ?
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I have Black Dog/Riff Raff in a Les Paul and its a great combo.
The Riff Raff splits well in the neck too.
Do you have enough output compared to bridge humbucker when you split ?
Yeah, seems to work fine. The BD to me feels like a hotter pickup than it actually is due to the big mid push.
I also have no load tone pots on both pickups, which seems to help with a bit of extra brightness.
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Order has been placed :smiley:
BD/VHII with 4x 550k long shaft pots + 0.022/0.015 caps :grin:
Looking forward to upgrade the guitar, will inform you with results !
thanks for your info guys :)
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Hi guys,
so my Black Dog/VHII pups has been installed finally.
I could not be more wrong about my pickups choice :(
I wrote to Ben French my findings :
Hi Ben,
The pickups were installed yesterday by profesional luthier here in Slovakia.
Unfortunately, the result is that the pickups sounds very different in a negative way from what I thought it will be.
The pickups has much less output than previous Gibson Burstbuckers Pros, especially the Black Dog in a bridge. (Very strange)
Much thinner sound now, they are set as close to strings as possible though.
Obviously, my choice of Black Dog/VH II was not right.
It seems that the only option now is to unistall them and send back to you and choose something from contemporary line (Have no idea which one as my opinion of what should be right for me has been challenged) :-D
I have read on BKP page that I can send them back after 14 days of purchase.
The thing is that the pickups needs to be uninstalled out of guitar, my luthier can do this, but he will be not available for next week or so, because of business trip he has to do.
So In case you will confirm we can swap the pickups for something else, it can be delivered back to BKP maybe in the beggining of Jun, calendar week 23.
Would this be possible ?
thanks in advance,
Tomas
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I've got to be honest, your description of the new pickups doesn't sound how I'd expect them to either. Could it be that they were not installed correctly? I've never had a BD but I have had a VHii neck, and that was very full sounding - definitely a lot fuller and less bright than the BB Pro neck that I had.
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I suspect the wiring is not ok, because I don't have problems with any of my BKP's. No one sounds thin.
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Hereīs my email communication :
Bare Knuckle Pickups
11:21
Hi Tomas,
A Black Dog should be more powerful than any BB pickup. Are you 100% sure they are wired up correctly? If they are not wired up right then you may hear single coil tones or out of phase tones - both of which would be much quieter and weaker.
So regular Gibson wiring? No push pulls? Can you send a photo of the wiring cavity?
Tomas Obester <obestertomas@gmail.com>
11:32
Hi,
The technician used attached wiring diagram.
I asked him, he is 100% sure everything has been done according to diagram (He is PRO level guy, doing guitar mainentance for biggest slovakian music store)
However, those BKP pots which I received are not push-pull, so we used 2x 550K BKP pots for volume and left 2x gibson CTS 500k pots on tone, they are wired as push-pull.
When used in single coil mode, the sound of both pickups is very weak.
0.022 and 0.015 caps are also installed.
I can make a photo of that and send it to you when Iīll get back home.
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I have no idea why it sounds like that guys, but according to guy, everything is wired correctly.
I will post photo of the cavity here later today.
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BKP pickups are wired red to hot, black and bare to ground.
Is the wiring diagram a BKP diagram?
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Yes, it is BKP diagram from site
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If he's wired it as per the diagram there would be two possibilities:
1. A bad solder joint (or two)
2. A fault with the pickup(s)
It would seem strange if there were multiple bad solder joints or more than one pickup faulty though, and you say that both pickups are effected. This makes me suspect that there is something wrong with the wiring somewhere in terms of following the diagram, because both pickups are effected. It might be an issue with one of the reused components that is common to both pickups, such as the selector switch.
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Please check guys, pics of cavity attached
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For me it's hard to see what's going on with the terminals on the push-pulls, but it looks like you have the hot and ground wires attached to the right lugs, same with the selector switch.
Because of the big caps I'm having trouble seeing how they are connected to the tone pots. The volume pot end looks correct.
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I got reply from BKP team that everything is wired correctly.
It looks like I need maybe Holidivers for more compression and fatness..hopefully
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I don't know what kind of music you play, but if you're looking for a powerful and thick pickup with PAF-pedigree I would inspect the Crawler too.
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Bridge should be - fat, thick, dark, chunky, and obviously more compression tha BD
neck - chimey, tight, enough power to use in single coil mode also and singing tone when used with overdrive.
VHII has more bass than BB pro neck
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That does sound a bit like the Holy Diver set
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What would you suggest then ?
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I really don't know, but it sounds like you want a fairly fat, less hairy alnico 5 pickup in the bridge. Holy Diver, alnico Black Hawk, Juggernaut, or Crawler are probably your five options. I'm not you and I don't really know what you want. When in doubt ask BKP
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Soundwise, the closest would be the Sound of Alter Bridge Addicted to Pain / Alter Bridge III album...maybe mixed with some Metallica Load/Reload/St. Anger guitar tone.
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Soundwise, the closest would be the Sound of Alter Bridge Addicted to Pain / Alter Bridge III album...maybe mixed with some Metallica Load/Reload/St. Anger guitar tone.
That sounds more like a ceramic nailbomb or miracle man
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Hmm, wouldnīt be the MM or ceramic bomb too spikey in high frequencies ? sounds on those albums are rather polished, smooth type of gain. I always find myself gravitate towards smooth amps like BE100, Cameron Atomica and always lowering the high cut to around 5500hz when playing live with band, otwerwise it is not pleasing to our ears (I have no problem cutting through the mix as I always use mid heavy EQ curve).
Very good example of ideal sound would be intro of overdrive guitar from Metallica - Sweet Amber. That sound is huge, fat but not woofy, nice compression with good amount of mids and NO fizz whatsoever but still cutting through the mix. I am using axe ax8 with friedman asm-12 monitors, so I am sure that sound can be usable in a live mix, but anytime I try to approximate to that sound, I find that BD bridge is lacking in that inherent fat sound and compression. Hope that you can understand what I mean by that :)
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If you want a fatter, more compressed sound that still has the string separation etc of BKPs with nice top end the main pickup I can think of is the alnico version of the Black Hawk, which I have in my modded Schecter Stiletto 6-FR.
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Last 2 days I was reading through the whole forum and based on opinion of forum members, it really looks like alnico black hawk could be the one, but would be the Alnico BH set good for les paul ? The neck positions on les paul is very low end heavy, still thinking that I should put in that position something razor sharp to compensate for nature of that position, have no idea what though..
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The Impulse neck is a bit brighter and single coil ish than the Black Hawk neck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-5Ysauhjw4
The alnico Black Hawk in many ways is a bigger, throatier sounding version of the Impulse bridge. On a Gibson I have tended to find that a bridge pickup from a more powerful set than the neck can work well to give a balanced set. For example in my SG the Cold Sweat neck was a bit much for the CS bridge, but I find that the Miracle Man bridge is a good match for the Cold Sweat neck in that guitar.
If you like the Impulse but want something fatter then the A-Hawk will get you there. Here's a video of the alnico Black Hawk set:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvoZPM-sVRc
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Hmm, wouldnīt be the MM or ceramic bomb too spikey in high frequencies ? sounds on those albums are rather polished, smooth type of gain.
Definitely ceramics for Metallica and Mark Tremonti's tones
Myles Kennedy live tone sounds more like an Abraxas or Holy Diver job, though
About the Metallica song you mentioned, sounds like they just used less gain and didn't use an overdrive type booster, so things sound rounded instead of the usual sharp and abrasive metal tone
The Miracle Man does have a strong treble response, but only noticeable in the higher strings
The lower strings should sound pretty thick and not raspy like an aftermath or painkiller
The Ragnarok sounds like an option too, but it's even hotter
The Miracle Man isn't overly compressed, cleans up pretty well, has a great split coil tone and has a killer lead tone
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Hmm, wouldnīt be the MM or ceramic bomb too spikey in high frequencies ? sounds on those albums are rather polished, smooth type of gain.
Definitely ceramics for Metallica and Mark Tremonti's tones
Myles Kennedy live tone sounds more like an Abraxas or Holy Diver job, though
About the Metallica song you mentioned, sounds like they just used less gain and didn't use an overdrive type booster, so things sound rounded instead of the usual sharp and abrasive metal tone
The Miracle Man does have a strong treble response, but only noticeable in the higher strings
The lower strings should sound pretty thick and not raspy like an aftermath or painkiller
The Ragnarok sounds like an option too, but it's even hotter
The Miracle Man isn't overly compressed, cleans up pretty well, has a great split coil tone and has a killer lead tone
I saw them live, definitely leaning more towards Myles tone (Mark IV + Diezel Herbert), as I always thought that Marks tone (Recto + Uberschall) is fizzy and nasty, but mixed with Myles somehow works in overall mix.
I am pretty sure Myles is using SD Custom Custom in a bridge.
I am still not sure, somehow I think Holy diver bridge would be better for me, as I need just a bit more output, compression and beef compared to Black Dog Bridge.
Alnico Black hawk looks a bit like overkill, because I like to play Slash style riffs, 80īs hardrock and also a bit frim 70īs VH style riffs.
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I saw them live, definitely leaning more towards Myles tone (Mark IV + Diezel Herbert), as I always thought that Marks tone (Recto + Uberschall) is fizzy and nasty, but mixed with Myles somehow works in overall mix.
I am pretty sure Myles is using SD Custom Custom in a bridge.
I am still not sure, somehow I think Holy diver bridge would be better for me, as I need just a bit more output, compression and beef compared to Black Dog Bridge.
Alnico Black hawk looks a bit like overkill, because I like to play Slash style riffs, 80īs hardrock and also a bit frim 70īs VH style riffs.
If you're set on that, go for It
The holy diver is an amazing pickup and sounds a lot like the black dog, but more compressed and fluid
Here's a demo of my guitar with the bridge holy diver and neck emerald (not me in the video. He's the builders brother)
https://youtu.be/RPKmizFka2E
https://youtu.be/SHttgk338kQ
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I saw them live, definitely leaning more towards Myles tone (Mark IV + Diezel Herbert), as I always thought that Marks tone (Recto + Uberschall) is fizzy and nasty, but mixed with Myles somehow works in overall mix.
I am pretty sure Myles is using SD Custom Custom in a bridge.
I am still not sure, somehow I think Holy diver bridge would be better for me, as I need just a bit more output, compression and beef compared to Black Dog Bridge.
Alnico Black hawk looks a bit like overkill, because I like to play Slash style riffs, 80īs hardrock and also a bit frim 70īs VH style riffs.
If you're set on that, go for It
The holy diver is an amazing pickup and sounds a lot like the black dog, but more compressed and fluid
Here's a demo of my guitar with the bridge holy diver and neck emerald (not me in the video. He's the builders brother)
https://youtu.be/RPKmizFka2E
https://youtu.be/SHttgk338kQ
Wooow, thatīs badass looking guitar right there /,,/
Ok, so I will ask for HD bridge.
I have at the moment VHII in the neck.
I would need in the neck something like this, rewind please to 3:36 :
https://youtu.be/7T9uzDasXag
What could match output wise the HD and sound similar to neck pup in the video ?
(Im aware Phils fingers plays big role in his sound but anyway 😃)
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Not sure which BKP neck pickup to recommend here to go with the Holy Diver bridge, but maybe consider the Rebel Yell neck?
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Not sure which BKP neck pickup to recommend here to go with the Holy Diver bridge, but maybe consider the Rebel Yell neck?
Hmm, Ive read here interesting info that HD neck is brigter in the neck than RY...https://forum.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/index.php?topic=33428.0.. which to me doesnt make sense as those pups in bridge position works in the exact opposite way, right ?
Based on Stephans info it looks like HD im the neck is quite bright.
Even Brighter and tighter would be HBS90.. for example, Supermassive + HD in the bridge ??
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A lot of BKP calibrated sets have a contrasting neck pickup. For example, in the Emerald set the neck is dark and warm while the bridge is bright and cutting.
Also the EQ charts on the BKP site are for the bridge pickup only, they've never provided them for neck pickups.
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Ok, so now it is either calibrated set of HD or HD bridge + HSP90..which one could be a good match output/sound wise to HD ?
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The neck cold sweat works really well with the bridge holy diver
That Phil X demo sounds more like a riff raff job, though
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The neck cold sweat works really well with the bridge holy diver
That Phil X demo sounds more like a riff raff job, though
Hey Eric,
what would be the benefit using CS neck against HD ?
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The neck cold sweat works really well with the bridge holy diver
That Phil X demo sounds more like a riff raff job, though
Hey Eric,
what would be the benefit using CS neck against HD ?
the CS has similar specs, but it's a little hotter
you could email bkp for more details on that