Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Le Mouk on April 23, 2019, 01:35:28 PM
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Hello!
It’s been a solid ten years since my last post here, but I’m in the market for a new set of BKP, and I need some help from the community.
I’m currently upgrading an used Carvin DC127, to help taming a GAS crisis without busting the bank. The guitar I’m upgrading is neck-through, mahogany neck’n’body, maple top, ebony fingerboard.
I’m in love with that guitar when it comes to playability, but don’t really like the C22s stock pickups.
They’re good at everything, but great at nothing, if that makes sense...?
I play mainly heavy music. My ideal tone would be in the ballpark of Killswitch Engage/Lamb Of God/Gojira/Parkway Drive/Caligula’s Horse/etc. But I’d like some versatility, since I like to play some clean stuff on my own, and some heavy 80’s flavored stuff.
I bought a A-Bomb/CS set 10 years ago for an Washburn Idol US Custom, and never looked back.
But this time I’d like something more modern. I read countless reviews, and narrowed my first selection to Juggernaut, Ragnarok, Aftermath or Painkiller.
I had the opportunity to try both Ragnaroks and Painkillers on my rig, which I think is by far the best way to figure them out. The Ragnarok are on an Ibanez S, and the Painkillers on an Ibanez RG. Based on sound clips/vids and reviews, I had great expectations on the Ragnaroks, but surprisingly, I didn’t like them at all. I’ve found them hard to control, like they have too much of everything. But I really enjoyed the Painkillers, very responsive, great pick attack, and thumping palm-mutes. And I surprisingly found them much more versatile than expected, again based on reviews and clips.
Comparing to my Washburn’s NB, I’ve found the PK much more "flattering" and easier to play. With the NB, I have to fight a little bit, if that makes sense. The PK are way more forgiving, but still dynamic enough to my taste and to my playing skills.
But I’m wondering how they compare to the Juggs, and can’t find a lot of information on that subject? My favorite aspect of the PK are their punch and harmonic content. And I like the single-note riffing to have some "bloom" after the initial attack, which the PK provides. But what about the Jugg’s?
I’m pretty much sold on a Painkiller for the bridge, but I’m wondering which neck pickup would eventually be a good match...? I quite liked the PK neck, so maybe the PK set would be the obvious choice, but I’d like to know if somebody have some first hand experience to share on mixing à neck pickup with the PK bridge?
Thanks a lot for your help!
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I friend of mine says both PK and Juggs are the best in the catalogue and his two favourite pickups ever, he claims they are the absolute kings in both classic metal and modern metal styles.
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Thanks for the answer!
Yeah, I’d like to try both side by side, or at least to read from somebody who can share his experience. I read many reviews on both, but no direct comparisons.
I’m afraid that the Juggs could be less "in your face" than the PK. But I read so many comments raving about the Jugg’s clean tone, that’s why I was thinking of a Jugg neck/PK bridge combo.
But there’s a significant output difference between the Juggs (8.9k) and Painkiller (13.1k) neck pickups.
It would be 8.9k in the neck vs 15.6k in the bridge.
Is is a big concern or nothing to worry about?
Is this something I should ask to the BKP guy, to balance the neck output to the bridge output?
Also, does anybody experienced the PK in an all mahogany superstrat-style guitar? I’ve always found that guitar to be more on the treble/hi-mids side, but I thought it was because of the Carvin C22s stock pickups. At the moment, the guitar is barebone on the workbench, with no hardware on, so I’m not sure about it. Maybe I should put some new strings on, and pay more attention to their accoustic qualities...?
I know people quite enjoy their PKs in mahogany, but PKs being mid-focused pickups, I’m wondering if they would work in my guitar
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I watched more clips, but it’s just more confusing, because the Raggs I tried sounded nothing like the clips. Based on the clips and descriptions, I was convinced to order a set. I’m glad I didn’t! I prefer the stock Carvin pickups than the Raggs! No wonder you can buy them second hand everywhere. I guess they work great in Misha’s guitars, with Nolly’s EQ added, but otherwise...?
I think I’ll go for a PK set, instead of trusting the clips. I was really interested in the Juggs, but I can’t really trust the clips, considering my experience. I played (and still play) the NB for a decade, and I cannot find a really accurate representation of them in clips neither, but still more accurate than the Ragnarok’s.
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Can somebody comment on the Jugg’s output? I keep on reading they’re great at thumping palm-mutes, which is mandatory to my style of playing, but on another hand, they’re the lowest output pickups in the contemporary line, just before the BlackHawks and Impulse.
Does the output influence the "oomph factor"? I guess not that much, since the BlackHawks have lower output (8.2k for the bridge) than most pickups from the vintage range...?
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The Black Hawk has a lower resistance reading, not a lower output. It is one of the higher output pickups in the range, on a par with the Painkiller. Resistance is futile in the case of the BH.
The Impulse's resistance readings seem much closer to its perceived output. Why the BH is so different I really don't know but it is not a good comparison. The Impulse is lower in output than the BH and closer to the Juggernaut in real output.
Output should really be judged by the volume of the signal hitting the input tube of your amp, but I don't think there's a convenient measurement for that. My Black Hawk (alnico) is more than a match for my Nailbomb (alnico) in terms of output and I'd say it's as powerful as my Miracle Man and Warpig (alnico). It's definitely more powerful than the Cold Sweat.
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That output/resistance thing is rather confusing!
Well, to sum up my thoughts:
Painkillers +
I tried and liked them on my rig (which by the way is Triaxis / Fryette 6L6 2x50w power amp), in an Ibanez RG. They seem to cover everything I’m looking for in a pickup, even if I’ve found them a bit generic in the clean department. My friend’s Painkillers are 2-conductors, I didn’t tried the splitted tones. But I plan to use that guitar mainly in a metal band situation anyway, meaning under hi-gain at hi-volume. So the clean tones aren’t my main concern for that one, but it would be great to be able to use that guitar in other contexts as well, playing quieter stuff at home.
Enter the Juggernauts. I’ve constantly read they’re particularly versatile, and on paper it seems they’re as good as the PK in the heavy department. But after my Ragnaroks disappointment, and knowing they’re quite logically related to the Juggernauts, I’m afraid I’ll dislike their voicing as well.
Choices, choices... :laugh:
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I have to say that I love my Nailbombs in hi-gain/loud volume situation mainly, not so much for quiet at-home playing. I guess it’s the downside of them sounding so tight and controlled under loads of gain?
My favorite guitar for home-playing is a Mexican strat with the Gilmour set of EMGs. In my experience, nothing beats active pickups for low volume playing, or to record using plugins. I still hate Strats for their cheap toy-like visual, their damn tendency to go out of tune, their painful bridges, their poorly ergonomic neck joint, the list goes on, but I have to admit that I just love that one.
I tend to play very hard in live situations, so I set up my live guitars/rig accordingly : high string action, less gain at the amp, and tight pickups. But in result, they’re just hard to play softly.
For the guitar I’m currently upgrading, I’d like a versatile one, not a nasty rock machine only. Well...
Juggs or Painkillers? Set, or mixed? Thoughts?
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Juggs are exceptional in a bright guitar and they skew heavily that way. In a dark guitar, I expect the top end to be rolled off and quite diffuse sounding while there is a danger of the lows beginning to predominate. This would be far less of a problem with a 6 string in E standard and drop D. It also depends on your amp.
Juggs are mind blowing in an Ibanez RG, basswood body, bolt o maple neck, hip shot hardware. Great, iconic metal tone.
Stick to painkillers in a darker guitar, especially with a dark amp. With a bright amp, juggs may work.
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Re: output. Juggs are higher output than an alnico nailbomb. They pound like a sledgehammer as well. The lows track fast but they are huge, thick, and powerful. The top end purrs and it has a sort of rolled off feeling in the upper mids, but a bite on the upper treble as well. The feeling is great. Those upper range frequencies are added in by a bright guitar, while the low end of the pickup compensates for a lack of lows from the instrument itself.
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Thanks for your answer.
I guess the best thing I have to do now is to figure out how my guitar naturally sounds. It sounded rather bright with the C22s stock pickups. But being full mahogany neck/body, it should be quite balanced. And I plan to go for a simple stain and oil finish, which should sound more open than a thick polyurethane finish.
Anyway, I found the Painkillers surprisingly versatile, and you told me that the Juggs can sound mean for the heavier stuff, so I should have my requirements covered either way!
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Painkillers ordered! :smiley:
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Excellent. Have fun!
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I’ll let you know my thougts once I’ll have them installed.
Thanks for your help !
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Well, I received my pickups. But I had to wait more than a week to find some time to install them, which was a pain in the ass! (the wait, not the installation!)
I still didn’t had the time to try them in a band situation, at full volume, on my live rig, but I already tested them on my home setups (small practice combo / ProTools rig) , more than enough to say that these Painkillers sound really great compared to the stock pickups they replaced.
They have a good punch in the chest when palm-muting, a rich harmonic content (pinch harmonics just scream), and they have a really unique voicing I just love. Mids are really thick and meaty, covering all the right frequencies, I have no worries they’ll just rape the mix! No overwhelming low frequencies, and the treble are aggressive and sharp, but without being piercing.
I’m really happy with my choice so far. Can’t wait to try them on my "real" rig, it’s a pain being so busy these days not being able to go to the studio. I’ll write a detailed review once I’ll find the time to unleash those PK.
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Nice to hear
I think you've made the best choice
I'd pick the PK mids over the JN any day
https://youtu.be/7Pu5JEx5Deo
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Hi everybody!
I played my Painkillers the last 7-8 months, I guess I’m done with the honeymoon phase, I can now post an objective review.
I tested my newly PK-loaded Carvin quite extensively, well hopefully enough to share an honest review...
I tried many pickups in the BKP range, but only have a decade of (almost exclusive)experience with the NB bridge and CS neck so I’ll logically compare my PK to them. I know, different string gauges, different woods, different bridges, all these parameters plays their role in the equation.
I worked my tone around my NB/CS combo for years, and everything in my rig, amp/pedals, is set up to enhance the NB/CS qualities.
At first, I didn’t messed with the amp/pedals settings, to really highlight the differences with the Painkillers. And then I started to adjust the gain/eq, but surprisingly only very slightly. The output isn’t that different between the two pickups. To my ears, the Painkiller sounds a bit louder, but mainly due to his voicing rather than sheer volume.
Both have a great clarity, or note separation, but I think it’s a common characteristic of all the BKP pickups, no matter which category or model.
Both are harmonically rich sounding, all frequencies are covered, and specially well balanced. (But again, all BKP I tried share that quality. I didn’t liked the Ragnarok, because "too much of everything", but there’s still a good balance across the frequencies range). With both NB and PK, harmonics just spread around like mad, pinched and tapped harmonics come across as easy as with EMG pickups (which were my main reference when it comes to Zakk-esque squeals, until I met the NB).
Both easily find their place in a mix, but the NB could disappear, if eq’ed wrong. Not the PK, they just rape the mix in a awfully beautiful way, no matter what.
The PK bridge punches through the speakers as well as the NB. Both have a great immediacy in the initial attack (punch?). When palm-muting, the PK hits you at the throat and chest, the NB at the stomach, if it makes any sense!? :laugh: I’d say I slightly prefer the PK in the punch department, a tad less massive than the NB, but fast and cutting. It hits just right. Palm-mutes literally shake the ground. Staccato riffing sounds like controlled thunder, it’s impressive!
On another hand, to me, what makes the Nailbomb a true keeper, is the bloom after the initial attack. I just love that characteristic!! When you hit that note and it just expands in your speakers, like "booooooooiiiiiiiiiinnnnng", for a lack of a better word! For single-note riffing, the NB hits gold.
The PK is more "linear", the note doesn’t bloom as much, but stays constant. And strong! I much prefer the NB in that area, I guess that bloom is why other people describe them as being "organic sounding", as opposed to the more contemporary PK...?
The Painkiller sounds more modern than the Nailbomb, which sounds like a 90’s pickup to me. The PK isn’t a bassy pickup at all. It’s tight and very percussive. The bass are never overwhelming, in fact I think the PK is perfectly voiced in the low-end for tight riffing, because it never interfere with the frequencies of the bass player. But still punches with the best of em! I really like the overall voicing of the PK, it’s a nasty and abrasive pickup, easy and fun to play. They’re excellent at rythm work, tight riffing, intricate chords. A perfect metal pickup in my book. The NB is a beast, too, but you have to be careful with your bass frequencies, and the hi-mids can be annoying depending the amp/settings. But they have a growl on their own, something unique that I like a lot. The PK are a bit more "neutral", because they have no exaggerated frequency which could give it a sonic character.
I’ve always been a gain freak. Not IHateEverythingButSatan kind of gain, but still... Consequently, my expectations weren’t aimed towards low-gain or splitted capabilities when ordering the PK, and I’m not the most indicate person to review these aspects of the guitar tone. But I’m not deaf (yet), and I can say that the clean tones I can get out of the PK neck are among the most enjoyable I experienced. Really lush, and again, balanced across the spectrum. Mixing the neck humbucker and the splitted bridge sounds heavenly. The splitted tones are satisfyingly convincing, but nothing to write some funk about.
One last aspect of the PK I’d like to point out is the ability to clean-up very well. I play quite a lot with the volume knob, and the PK delivers in spades. All gain levels from crunch to "stop it" are obtainable at a flick of a knob. They beat the NB on that point, in my opinion.
To sum it up, I still think that the perfect pickup doesn’t exist. Mine, at this stage of my quest, would be a mix of these two : the attack and voicing of the PK, but with the liveliness of the NB.
Maybe one day I’ll try to put the NB in the Carvin, and the PK in the Washburn, just to see... :wink:
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superb review, pity that I can't stand the nailbomb (except for the 8 string, that I'm starting to enjoy when not playing the first strings)
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I never got on with the Ceramic Nailbomb either in one of my guitars, something about it just didn't work with that particular one.
Will be putting a Juggernaut in another one sometime so interested to see how that goes.
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Thanks for your answers.
My Nailbomb isn’t the ceramic version, I’d like to know first hand how they compare, even after reading the many threads on the subject). And I’m still curious about the Juggs, too! And now, with the new Silo, I can see how I’ll be in trouble the next time I’ll have to decide which BKP to get! :grin:
superb review, pity that I can't stand the nailbomb (except for the 8 string, that I'm starting to enjoy when not playing the first strings)
Can you please explain what you dislike about your Nailbomb, precisely on the first strings? (Biggest or smallest, by the way?)
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Here they are...
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:wink:
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Can you please explain what you dislike about your Nailbomb, precisely on the first strings? (Biggest or smallest, by the way?)
Firstly, my NB is ceramic, and similarly as someone said, I can't stand pure ceramics lately, or at least some bkp ones. when I mean the first strings I mean the thinnest. The NB I had in my 7 string was boomy in the lowest strings, the chuggs weren't deep enough while in the thinnest strings the sound was thin AF with shrill solos and in general little presence. Maybe the walnut top of the guitar had something to do enhancing the trebblish character of the pickup, but anyway I hated it with a passion and changed it for a WP, improving it a lot though I'm still not 100% happy, and that's why I say maybe BKP Ceramics are not my thing.
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Thanks for clarifying.
I’ve never been a fan of ceramic magnets.
I had the DiMarzio SuperDistortion, and the SD SH5 custom, both ceramic. I found them "chemical" sounding. I don’t know how to describe it. Maybe that’s more the feel than the sound in itself, but to me there’s usually something sterile with ceramic pickups.
That’s why I was a bit reluctant to order the PK at first, but after trying my friend’s PK-loaded Ibanez on my rig, I decided to give’em a chance. I’m glad I did, they work great in my Carvin, which was intended to be my "metal guitar" anyway.
But I would still chose the NB over the PK. :grin:
I don’t know, I’ve always loved to "fight" a little bit with the gear. I used to prefer the more flattering gear back in the days, but as I grew as a player, I tend to prefer amps/guitars that give you back what you put into! And the alnico Nailbomb has been my favorite bridge pickup for the last decade exactly for that, because to me, it’s the perfect blend of dynamic, punch and hugeness.
That said, I’m really happy with the PK, they’re fantastic metal pickups!
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A friend of mine who has tried a lot of bkp says the best pup in their catalogue for classic extreme metal is the PK by far, while the sweetest for modern metal is the Jugg, I tend to agree with him and I do with the Jugg, the PK I haven't tried but it should be awesome. I don't buy it because most of my guitars are light wood types but If I had a good slab of mahogany one, I'd love to try it.
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I’ve just re-read the PK description from the BKP website.
Instead of posting that long-ass review, I should have written «all you read on the BKP website is accurate and true» instead!
I found the sound / video clips I found on the internet not that accurate, but the description totally is! Which get me even more interested by the Silos and Juggs!😄