Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: sacleary1 on March 02, 2021, 09:31:50 PM
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I have a PRS SC245, which is a 24.5" scale guitar with mahogony body, maple top and while I did like the stock bridge 245 pup (medium vintage hot raised fairly close to the strings), I did not like the dark and lifeless stock neck 245 pup. I love the tone of the bridge pup, but felt I wanted a pup to drive the amp more, and better string separation when playing triads. I decided to try out the Silo set.
I do like the bridge Silo, although I feel it may be a little too compressed and unforgiving, and that I may prefer some more responsiveness to finger dynamics. In that sense, I get the feeling it may be too hot for me. However, the pups in my EBMM Axis Super Sport are fairly hot (16 ohms, same as the EBMM EVH pups), and I do not get that same impression that they are too hot, I don't mind the hot pups in that guitar.
So there is that issue, but most importantly, the real problem is the neck Silo. I OCD'd on many different pickup heights and currently have the neck pup as far away from strings as the guitar cavity will allow, and still my Silo neck pup sounds muddy and dark, and only sounds ok on upper frets. Like, I can't play lower fretted chords with the neck pup, it sounds too dark and muddy. I can only do lead work with the neck pup. I have ruled out any problems with the wiring, with the help of Tim and also a look over by my guitar tech.
So, I am wondering if you can recommend some BKP pups to replace the Silo set. I think I need to brighten up the neck pup, I do really like the tone of the bridge Silo but I feel it may be too hot for me. Also, any replacement needs to split well, then need to sound open, they need to brighten up my mahogany guitar, sound warm, not too polite, responsive to finger dynamics, and good sustain.
Here is my preference for tone... my current fav tones are Nick Johnston, Moray Pringle, Plini, Andy Timmons, Marco Sfogli, and Martin Miller. My EBMM Axis Super Sport is proving to be sufficient for strat'ish tones, so I am inclined to go heavier with the PRS, although part of me still wants the PRS to be a versatile guitar that can do cleaner low gain stuff but also do heavy rock and also heavy rhythm/lead tones of Plini or Sfogli.
I have narrowed it down to Vintage Hot pups, and here is my impression from available info or youtube vids:
VHII - on paper, the description sounds great for me, I like that they are reported to be dynamic and touch responsive, but there simply are not any good videos of these in hi gain applications, ie. can they do the heavy hi gain rhythm and thick saturated lead tones of Sfogli or Martin Miller? And how would the VHII fit in amongst this youtube vid: 'Bareknuckle Bridge Pickup Shootout', https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ecekLV4yps
Black Dog - seems like good candidate for me, but are they bold enough for hi gain rhythm and lead like Sfogli. They were my favourite pup sound in the Bare Knuckle Modern Metal Clips youtube vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSoDFyYSauc
Emerald - nice top end, but I felt it lacked girth in the mids and openness compared to Rebel Yell and BlackDog in the above two noted Youtube videos. Although brilliantly smooth, they almost seem too tame, flat and compressed for what I am looking for. I am pretty sure I don't want the Emeralds.
Rebel Yell - I think I really like the tonal spectrum of these, big bold hot PAF tone, maaaaybe a slight bit too hairy in the mids in that youtube shootout vid, but maybe that is just a function of amp settings. While I like these, part of me is fearful of whether it will be too hot, and a repeat situation of the Silo in this guitar.
Holy Diver - I like this tone of most Holy Diver vids out there. But, again, I am worried if it will be too hot for this guitar?
Abraxas - Description sounds good on paper, but with a DC res similar to the Silo, will they be too hot for me, or is the 15 ohm resistance just because they use a thinner gauge wire? Can they get as bold as the Rebel Yell? How do they compare to the Black Dog? Too safe, too sterile for heavier hi gain Sfogli tones?
Crawler – I liked the vids on these, they sound really responsive to finger dynamics, which is important to me, but can they also do heavy rock/fusion and the odd modernish metal with boldness and clarity under hi gain? How would they compare to Black Dog, Rebel Yell, or Abraxas?
I am so confused and don't have the $$$ for trial and error.
Given my guitar specs of mahogany and shorter 24.5" scale length, and my tonal preferences, my worry that Silo is too hot, what would you suggest? Again, they need to split well, then need to sound open, they need to brighten up my guitar, sound warm, not too polite, responsive to finger dynamics, and good sustain.
Thanks in advance! Sorry for the lengthy message.
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I believe you might enjoy true grits
bridge pup sits somewhere between the black dog and holy diver, but more balanced than both (a little brighter, punchier and not as mid heavy)
not sure what I'd compare the neck model to, but it's more of a modern type of clean tone rather than a hot PAF
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To give you a idea about the Crawler (Sfogli wannabe content):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN84qcU1DHM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN84qcU1DHM)
PRS guitars work well with Abraxas and Crawler, it just depends how bright or dark the guitar, but considering the scale I would not hesitate to select a set of either of these two. You might want to consider a Mule-neck too or, if you need more brightness, a RiffRaff-neck. I've been using the Crawler for many years and this pup can cover a lot of ground, just not brutal metal. The split is really good, nearly tele-esque. I use that for U2 stuff. It's not a very hot pickup. Maybe a tad hotter than the VHII in my other guitar. Some say it's a dark sounding pickup but it's not, it has a emphasis on the centermids but really sufficient topend. Stays bold above the 12th fret. Cleans up very well too. There's some addictive chewiness to the tone and pushed the Crawler growls in a unique way. Of course I am biased, but the Crawler is great all purpose pickup.
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responded to wrong thread, sorry. Not sure how to delete.
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To give you a idea about the Crawler (Sfogli wannabe content):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN84qcU1DHM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN84qcU1DHM)
PRS guitars work well with Abraxas and Crawler, it just depends how bright or dark the guitar, but considering the scale I would not hesitate to select a set of either of these two. You might want to consider a Mule-neck too or, if you need more brightness, a RiffRaff-neck. I've been using the Crawler for many years and this pup can cover a lot of ground, just not brutal metal. The split is really good, nearly tele-esque. I use that for U2 stuff. It's not a very hot pickup. Maybe a tad hotter than the VHII in my other guitar. Some say it's a dark sounding pickup but it's not, it has a emphasis on the centermids but really sufficient topend. Stays bold above the 12th fret. Cleans up very well too. There's some addictive chewiness to the tone and pushed the Crawler growls in a unique way. Of course I am biased, but the Crawler is great all purpose pickup.
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Thanks Telerocker, I hadn't seen that video yet. That is a great demo of the tone I like. It does sound like Crawler is quite versatile. Would you say it is more versatile than the VHII for playing the heavier hi gain material? Recall, my tone preference ranges from heavy blues to prog metal.
The only thing that I worry about is the output being too high? it is the same DCres as Silo bridge and I was feeling the Silos were too hot for me, but you say the Crawler seems only slightly hotter than the VHII. I wonder if the Crawler uses a thinner wire than the Silo which would result in a higher resistance coming in close to that of the Silo.
Anyone have any further knowledge on this?
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I would say: medium hot. It does feel right for me. Not too weak, not too much output. I don't like superhot pickups into highgain amps. And the Crawler does well with every amp I played. Currently playing Orange RV MKI 50 head and a Diezel Schmidt.
I can tell the difference between the VHII and Crawler only by experience. Both in superstrats. Personally I think the Crawler is more versatile. They're two different pickups though. The VHII has more edge and pickattack. It sounds a little drier was well. I had to tweak my amps a bit for this pickup. The Crawler delivers more instant gratification.
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UPDATE: As per Tim's suggestion, I replaced the Silo set with Mule bridge and Stormy Monday neck. I love the Mule in the PRS SC245, very versatile, covers a lot of ground. However, I feel the Stormy Monday neck is too soft for my liking, I would like more bite, but still be bright and vowel-like. Maybe I should go with Alnico 4? Mule neck? Any other suggestions?
I recently picked up a Crawler set, it is not in a guitar right now. Wondering if I should try the Crawler neck with the Mule bridge, but should I worry they won't balance well? Maybe I could compensate with lowering its pup height. I heard somewhere that the Crawler neck and Abraxas (hotter Mule) are similar, so maybe a Crawler neck could play well with a Mule bridge?
Cheers!
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I would just try that Crawler set in it and see how that goes. You might end up using the other pickups elsewhere. Crawler set was my immediate suggestion on reading this thread
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It’s interesting you found the Silo neck too dark - it’s one of the brightest in the range. I see where Tim has come from with the Stormy Monday suggestion too, if you think that’s closer but want to get brighter I think really you’d want to check out the Riff Raff neck.
However, I’m concerned the issue here isn’t the pickup but the guitar - a 24.5”, 22 fret guitar is naturally going to have a much “sweeter” (more low end, more rounded, more output) sounding neck pickup due to its position than the 25.5”, mostly 24 fret guitars used by almost every player on your tone reference list. I can’t help wondering if you’re going to be perpetually battling this, and if perhaps you could either embrace the sound you’re currently getting or accept it’s just not going to sound quite like those players?
A couple of other suggestions I have are to maybe look at a humbucker sized P90 in the neck position since they bring some of that single coil snap and woodiness that could really help out here. I had a Mule bridge paired with a Manhattan neck in a 25” hollow body guitar and it sounded phenomenal - it was actually really fluid for leads. You could also look at the legendary Mississippi Queen here too of course.
You could also take a step more left field and choose neck pickup such as the Nailbomb or Polymath and have it wired in parallel coil mode instead of series, again to give you a single coil sound but in this case hum-cancelling.
Finally you also could wire a capacitor inline with the pickup output to cut low end from the signal. As I mentioned before, the scale and neck pickup position are undoubtedly giving you a bass-heavy sound; with less low end, you might find that the Stormy Monday (and Silo for that matter) has all these articulation and clarity you need.