Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: timmy_pix on October 01, 2021, 05:23:33 PM
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So the Polymath is out, and going from the description and the EQ-graph on the website, it looks to be almost a Black Dog "Plus"? I'd be curious if Nolly waded in here at some point to offer insight on how it compares to the rest of the range.
I've got Black Dogs in a 7-string and I love the voice, but sometimes wish they were a little hotter so I didn't have to boost them all the time, so these sound like a great solution to me. My BDs are chrome covered, and cost me just over £300 3 years ago, which was pushing it for a set of pickups in my view. I just specced up a set of Polymaths to the same spec out of curiosity - just over £400! I get that a chunk of that is artist/signature pickup premium, but still - who's paying that much for guitar pickups?
I love all my BKPs very much - I'm on 9 sets now! - and they're my first choice for any replacement pickups, but this is getting silly, surely? I know it's a little unfair to compare BKP, a company with several employees, a good website and an obvious marketing budget to some of the smaller one- or two-man boutique alternatives in the UK, but when their pickups are quite literally half the price for equal quality, I'm struggling to justify BKP anymore. Which frustrates me, as I'd love to have more!
I can't blame BKP, really - people are clearly still prepared to pay these prices, and I'm sure Brexit/pandemic/nickel shortage are contributing factors, but at what point does "because we can" become detrimental to customers? £250-£300, pricey but worth it if you never have to buy another set of pickups for that guitar again. But £350 to £400?
Anyway, massive opinionated tangent aside, which I hope will spark some discussion; Polymaths sound great and I look forward to picking up a used set one day.
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There's no way I could justify paying that for pickups.
It says £299 for basic black open coil. Then there's the postage to Australia, so it's nearly AU$600 for just pickups, not including pots or caps.
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Fully agree. The prices right now are beyond silly and, clearly, as much as I like BK pickups, I cannot justify buying a set anymore. I understand that there are reasons which justify, in some extent, a price increase, but that much of a price growth makes the products not attractive anymore for me. Of course, any company is free to define its selling prices, and clearly the demand is still high, despite the ridiculous (IMHO) pricing. So, regarding me, I will rely on alternatives - thank God there are plenty of excellent pickup makers out there that ask half if the price or less. I didn't expect that to happen, since I was obviously ok with paying somewhat more for a better product, but that is just too much. And I know that this view on the subject is shared nowadays among several guitar players - especially non-professionals. Anyway, it is what it is. Maybe BKP prices will drop closer to normal levels in the future, who knows.
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Affordability aside, I get it. Everything from the price of a pint to toilet paper and guitar amps is up.
I know that there are really cheap winders in the States, although after years of hearing guitarists talk smack on other guitar forums I can't trust that they are any good. Actually, the small winder I preferred prior to BKP is in the same general price range as BKP, although BKP's price increase for the regular line of humbuckers well exceeded this particular winder. Curiously, they had similar increases in singles.
The good news is that I think the Boot Camps are still competitive. Also, the price of a 30 day pass for light rail here in Phoenix is down.
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I’m really interested in this pickup for the bridge position in my 25.5” scale guitar given the specs and particularly the EQ curve. I was also looking at the True Grit humbucker, but the Polymath may be a bit smoother in the highs, which appeals to me.
Have to wait for some standard demos where they strum clean chords etc. These really polished demos where they are playing to backing tracks doesn’t help me to hear the pickup.
As someone who lost full time work in 2018, and only working casually since then I hear and feel the argument about price. Prices on everything seems to be increasing faster as people and companies either strive to keep up their profits, or make as much as they can while they can. It can’t last as society will implode as more and more adopt this strategy.
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Well it seems that Seymour Duncan have just jacked up their prices. The issue seems to be the cost of materials like copper wire.
The supply restrictions arising out of covid are really starting to bite. Old stocks of this stuff have now been depleted and the new prices that pickup manufacturers are paying for these materials has increased significantly, in large part due to increased transport costs
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Hey! Firstly, it’s a huge honour to have created a set with Tim and I really hope those that get hold of Polymaths will love them as much as I do!
To answer about how the Polymaths relate to the Black Dog, there aren’t really many points of comparison - it’s a different wire gauge, different wind/offset and a different magnet (the Polymaths are the first BKPs to feature an unoriented A5 magnet, also known as isotropic, and this gives a noticeably different feel and tone when compared to standard anisotropic A5). Also, the neck Polymath is an unusual design that combines two wire gauges. In practical terms though, the Polymath bridge is less twangy, has much thicker mids and has a squishier but still tight low end when compared to the Black Dog, with more output. The neck pickups don’t really compare since the BD neck is within the PAF-y realm and the Polymath is a much more modern “tubular” sounding pickup with - again - more of a squish on the attack.
I can’t really comment on the pricing, but note the Polymath is in line with the other signature humbuckers, and features a black powder coated baseplate as standard - this would be a bespoke option and would come at an additional cost normally.
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All the signature sets start at 299. So in this respect it's a logical pricetag. And Dave is right. Prices for raw quality materials have increased, as have the costs of logistics due to the effect of the pandemic: closed harbours, shortage of containers. Containerprices have gone skyhigh the last months.
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Hey! Firstly, it’s a huge honour to have created a set with Tim and I really hope those that get hold of Polymaths will love them as much as I do!
To answer about how the Polymaths relate to the Black Dog, there aren’t really many points of comparison - it’s a different wire gauge, different wind/offset and a different magnet (the Polymaths are the first BKPs to feature an unoriented A5 magnet, also known as isotropic, and this gives a noticeably different feel and tone when compared to standard anisotropic A5). Also, the neck Polymath is an unusual design that combines two wire gauges. In practical terms though, the Polymath bridge is less twangy, has much thicker mids and has a squishier but still tight low end when compared to the Black Dog, with more output. The neck pickups don’t really compare since the BD neck is within the PAF-y realm and the Polymath is a much more modern “tubular” sounding pickup with - again - more of a squish on the attack.
I can’t really comment on the pricing, but note the Polymath is in line with the other signature humbuckers, and features a black powder coated baseplate as standard - this would be a bespoke option and would come at an additional cost normally.
Thanks for the tone description Nolly.
I’m trying to decide between the True Grit humbucker and the Polymath for my bridge position, so your comments will be really helpful in trying to decide between them.
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Out of the pickups I have owned the closest tonal comparison I could come to was the alnico Black Hawk bridge and Black Hawk neck. Maybe not as hot though.
This set doesn't seem to be similar to any of the others I have had.
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Thanks for the tone description Nolly.
I’m trying to decide between the True Grit humbucker and the Polymath for my bridge position, so your comments will be really helpful in trying to decide between them.
Obviously I'm biased in preference between the two, but the True Grit is more of a hot-rodded classic pickup with an appropriate upper mid focus, where the Polymath is all about very broad midrange, squishy attack and harmonic richness.
Out of the pickups I have owned the closest tonal comparison I could come to was the alnico Black Hawk bridge and Black Hawk neck. Maybe not as hot though.
This set doesn't seem to be similar to any of the others I have had.
I definitely wouldn't draw that comparison myself, the sound and feel you get from the blade pickups is very different to a traditional humbucker design. The Polymaths are unique in the range due to the magnet. In fact I don't know of any pickup manufacturer apart from Throbak and Zhangbucker that uses isotropic Alnico V. Both pickups have a different wind approach than any other pickups in the BKP range, with the neck being particularly out there with its two different wire gauges.
For what it's worth, during the design process I auditioned dozens and dozens of pickups from BKP, major manufacturers, tiny boutique winders etc. There are some amazing pickups out there, but I haven't come across anything with the same combination of qualities as the Polymath.
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Well the humbuckers I have had are:
ceramic Black Hawk (and neck)
Impulse (and neck)
alnico Nailbomb (and neck)
Cold Sweat (and neck)
alnico War Pig (and neck)
Emerald (and neck) - I installed and played this, but it belongs to a friend
True Grit (bridge only)
Miracle Man (bridge only)
Out of these I thought the alnico Black Hawk and the True Grit sounded the closest.
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Well the humbuckers I have had are:
ceramic Black Hawk (and neck)
Impulse (and neck)
alnico Nailbomb (and neck)
Cold Sweat (and neck)
alnico War Pig (and neck)
Emerald (and neck) - I installed and played this, but it belongs to a friend
True Grit (bridge only)
Miracle Man (bridge only)
Out of these I thought the alnico Black Hawk and the True Grit sounded the closest.
I think if you had the Polymath bridge there you’d find some common ground with the Nailbomb’s mid-forward voicing, but the top end, bottom end, dynamics/output and feel are all quite different.
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Nolly, congrats on the pickup! That's a pretty cool thing especially being BKP. Also, funny you mention Zhangbucker. That is the small winder in the States that I refer to above!
Anyway, the crunch tones for the bridge really have me intrigued. I don't play the heavier styles, but that crunch sounds like it might be cool stuff for straight into my Plexi clone (Rockitt Retro 50) for a modern day interpretation of the Stooges' Raw Power, or whatever else I may want to cook up.
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Congrats on the pickups Nolly! They sound fantastic in the video!
After years of using pretty much only ceramic pickups, I recently switched to the Seymour Duncan Pegasus (Alnico V) set in one of my prs 6 strings. It was a sweet change of sound I much needed. Any chance you know any SD pickups you could compare the Polymath to? In the first few months with new pickups it's always difficult to find some decent comparisons.
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Thanks for chipping in Nolly, and congratulations! They should really have you do all the descriptions on the website as you describe things much more clearly - I like it when you swing through here and drop little pearls of insight.
Very interesting about the magnet, I do hope I get the opportunity to try a set one day but I suspect it'll be a while!
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Hey! Firstly, it’s a huge honour to have created a set with Tim and I really hope those that get hold of Polymaths will love them as much as I do!
To answer about how the Polymaths relate to the Black Dog, there aren’t really many points of comparison - it’s a different wire gauge, different wind/offset and a different magnet (the Polymaths are the first BKPs to feature an unoriented A5 magnet, also known as isotropic, and this gives a noticeably different feel and tone when compared to standard anisotropic A5). Also, the neck Polymath is an unusual design that combines two wire gauges. In practical terms though, the Polymath bridge is less twangy, has much thicker mids and has a squishier but still tight low end when compared to the Black Dog, with more output. The neck pickups don’t really compare since the BD neck is within the PAF-y realm and the Polymath is a much more modern “tubular” sounding pickup with - again - more of a squish on the attack.
I can’t really comment on the pricing, but note the Polymath is in line with the other signature humbuckers, and features a black powder coated baseplate as standard - this would be a bespoke option and would come at an additional cost normally.
nice to hear, Nolly
considering your previous favorites I was guessing something between the true grit, rebel yell and black dog, but with a modern take
I'm glad this finally happened! you've been a big part of bkp history since I've heard of it 14-15 years ago
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Nolly, congrats on the pickup! That's a pretty cool thing especially being BKP. Also, funny you mention Zhangbucker. That is the small winder in the States that I refer to above!
Anyway, the crunch tones for the bridge really have me intrigued. I don't play the heavier styles, but that crunch sounds like it might be cool stuff for straight into my Plexi clone (Rockitt Retro 50) for a modern day interpretation of the Stooges' Raw Power, or whatever else I may want to cook up.
Oh that’s pretty funny about the Zhangbucker connection! Have you ever tried their isotropic A5 magnet models (I think they simply refer to it as simply UOA5)?
If you do end up getting some Polymaths I hope you enjoy them! I should say too that the parallel coil sound is phenomenal on them - very much like getting a whole different and perfectly usable thick single coil tone. That’s what you’re hearing at the very start of the demo track, and also for the neck pickup cleans in the mid section.
Congrats on the pickups Nolly! They sound fantastic in the video!
After years of using pretty much only ceramic pickups, I recently switched to the Seymour Duncan Pegasus (Alnico V) set in one of my prs 6 strings. It was a sweet change of sound I much needed. Any chance you know any SD pickups you could compare the Polymath to? In the first few months with new pickups it's always difficult to find some decent comparisons.
Great stuff, thanks! So the SD pickup people will think to compare the Polymath to is the Custom 5 because it’s a similar DC resistance and A5 magnet, but I again have to stress the unoriented/isotropic A5 magnets in the Polymaths are a whole different sound than you’d expect and put a lot more emphasis on the mods with sweeter highs and springier low end. It’s also not the same kind of wind nor pole pieces and this adds up to a very different pickup. Common complaints with the Custom 5 is that it’s a bit scooped and harsh for some players and that’s absolutely not the case with the Polymaths.
You could also compare to the Pegasus - again similar ballpark on a spec sheet but very different in practise. I’m actually not sure if there are any wind differences between the Custom 5 and Pegasus, but my hunch is they are the same recipe with the Pegasus having copper foil wrapped around the wound bobbins like on the old Gibson Dirty Fingers or DiMarzio Super Distortion pickups - a move which cuts high end and lowers the resonant peak substantially. Most of the recent SD designs aimed at modern players feature this copper foil, which I think means they’re getting more mileage out of their existing pickup designs with this simple addition. I’m not badmouthing here, it’s probably great business practise for a company that deals in such huge production numbers.
Anyway, I’m rambling. I’ve benchmarked the Polymaths next to the Pegasus and Custom 5 (and many other SDs) and I feel the Polymaths don’t overlap all that much (and obviously are my preference). Although it’s totally unrelated in spec, I think you could say the Polymath bridge has some of the midrange qualities that make the JB so well-loved but you’ve got a more open top end leaner lows, along with more headroom and richer harmonics.
I’m trying very hard to not to turn this into an advertisement for the Polymath, but I need to say that Tim and I were agreed from the outset that there is no point putting out a pickup if it doesn’t genuinely bring something new and awesome to the table. We worked extremely long and hard to refine the design(s) and constantly reference other pickups to make sure we were achieving that goal. To me, where we ended up just feels “right” every time I come back to it, and that’s been corroborated by other players trying them for the first time and feeling that instant connection with the instrument that makes playing feel easy and joyful.
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Thanks for chipping in Nolly, and congratulations! They should really have you do all the descriptions on the website as you describe things much more clearly - I like it when you swing through here and drop little pearls of insight.
Very interesting about the magnet, I do hope I get the opportunity to try a set one day but I suspect it'll be a while!
Thanks! I hope you do too!
nice to hear, Nolly
considering your previous favorites I was guessing something between the true grit, rebel yell and black dog, but with a modern take
I'm glad this finally happened! you've been a big part of bkp history since I've heard of it 14-15 years ago
Hey thanks Eric, I appreciate that, nice to see you around still! There's definitely something about the output level of the Rebel Yell that feels very homely to me - like you can push into modern territory but equally easily slip back into classic tones without feeling awkward. It wasn't surprising to me when we ended up in a similar DC resistance ballpark with the Polymath.
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Oh that’s pretty funny about the Zhangbucker connection! Have you ever tried their isotropic A5 magnet models (I think they simply refer to it as simply UOA5)?
Yep, UOA5 is how I know them. This is the first time I've heard "isotropic"! I have not tried them yet. The one Zhang humbucker I have is A2.
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Well I've not been back here in a while, I wasn't sure if you were still posting, Nolly! Glad to see you are. ^_^
As I said on your Insta, I'm saving up for a set. I'm going to take to BKP nearer the time I have the money together but I'd love a matte white covered set with the polymath etching / tattoo in black to fit my Ibanez FRIX (it's the black blasted-grain finish with white binding, so my concept would look killer on it!)
Also, I don't know if you look at your Insta DMs, Nolls, but I sent you a message regarding something from my Arcanum Plectra account. ;) If there's a better way to have a private convo let me know which you'd prefer. \m/
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Polymaths are the first BKPs to feature an unoriented A5 magnet, also known as isotropic, and this gives a noticeably different feel and tone when compared to standard anisotropic A5.
In practical terms though, the Polymath bridge is less twangy, has much thicker mids and has a squishier but still tight low end when compared to the Black Dog, with more output.
I’m curious about the feel and tone of the bridge pickup. I’ve never played an unoriented A5, only regular A5, A2 and A4.
That squish on the attack, is that similar to the way A2s feel squishier and a bit compressed on the front of a picked note compared to A5 which feels less compressed and stiffer?
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Well I've not been back here in a while, I wasn't sure if you were still posting, Nolly! Glad to see you are. ^_^
As I said on your Insta, I'm saving up for a set. I'm going to take to BKP nearer the time I have the money together but I'd love a matte white covered set with the polymath etching / tattoo in black to fit my Ibanez FRIX (it's the black blasted-grain finish with white binding, so my concept would look killer on it!)
Also, I don't know if you look at your Insta DMs, Nolls, but I sent you a message regarding something from my Arcanum Plectra account. ;) If there's a better way to have a private convo let me know which you'd prefer. \m/
Hey mate thanks so much, I’ve replied over on Instagram now, much appreciated. Hope you can make the etched white cover dream come true, I think that’s look really cool with the black baseplate too - very two tone.
Polymaths are the first BKPs to feature an unoriented A5 magnet, also known as isotropic, and this gives a noticeably different feel and tone when compared to standard anisotropic A5.
In practical terms though, the Polymath bridge is less twangy, has much thicker mids and has a squishier but still tight low end when compared to the Black Dog, with more output.
I’m curious about the feel and tone of the bridge pickup. I’ve never played an unoriented A5, only regular A5, A2 and A4.
That squish on the attack, is that similar to the way A2s feel squishier and a bit compressed on the front of a picked note compared to A5 which feels less compressed and stiffer?
Yes, it’s a lot like that, but the unoriented A5 stays a lot more controlled and articulate than the A2/3s can at the same time. It’s a really addictive feel, trying the UOA5 was a eureka moment for us during the Polymath development.
If you listen to the ‘Heavy’ clip on the website clip player, I think you’ll hear the pickup’s attack character quite clearly. I deliberately did various intensities of palm muting to show how it responds.
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Hey Nolly - congrats on the new pickups mate! They sound great so far.
I was looking for a new set of pickups for a guitar I have - was debating between the holy diver set and the silos, which are different I know but both could serve as a versatile set rock metal set. I have to add the Polymaths to the consideration now - I really like that the fact you wanted/created something fun to play (I found juggernaut bridge to sort of lack that a bit) and the tones sound really good, in particular the bridge distorted (which has some nail bomb but also a bit of a holy diver mid-range similarity to my ears in a way) and the neck parallel clean tones.
I hope you can share some clips of the polymaths in one of mahogany Prs guitars you have at some stage - just as a refence point vs the guitar you demoed them in on the launch clip.
Cheers and congrats again!
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Was hard to swallow the $440 USD price tag but I ordered a set of black covered Polymaths for my E-II M-II in Black Natural Fade with a Hipshot bridge.
I tune this guitar to drop A# so I am very interested in how this will do. My go to pickups (and favorite combination) are Riff Raffs in Les Pauls. The clarity, punch, and 3D quality are phenomenal through my VH4. I also have been digging Emeralds in my Eclipses and Silos in my Horizon III.
Was looking at a Holydiver set for some Horizons until I saw the Polymaths. I have yet to install the A-Bombs and Black Dogs I have in Horizons, but I want to try them all, so I just went for it. I will get a set of Holydivers soon.
I was told by Tim that the the black matte covers should sound the same as Nickel covers and not affect their tone really. The video sounds phenomenal with covered pickups so I took the plunge. Big fan of Nolly's work and ear so this will be fun to give them a spin. I hope they get along well with my VH4 even if they're higher output. (My VH4 typically likes more vintage/vintage hot pickups)
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Hey Nolly - congrats on the new pickups mate! They sound great so far.
I was looking for a new set of pickups for a guitar I have - was debating between the holy diver set and the silos, which are different I know but both could serve as a versatile set rock metal set. I have to add the Polymaths to the consideration now - I really like that the fact you wanted/created something fun to play (I found juggernaut bridge to sort of lack that a bit) and the tones sound really good, in particular the bridge distorted (which has some nail bomb but also a bit of a holy diver mid-range similarity to my ears in a way) and the neck parallel clean tones.
I hope you can share some clips of the polymaths in one of mahogany Prs guitars you have at some stage - just as a refence point vs the guitar you demoed them in on the launch clip.
Cheers and congrats again!
Hey BTS, thanks so much!
In all the experimentation I've done on the journey towards and testing of the the Polymaths I've not really found a guitar they don't work in, provided you like the general idea of broad midrange, open top and lean lows with a bit of squidge. The output level and voicing don't really exacerbate troublesome low end or overemphasise treble etc, so I've been really happy with the results in all my guitars. That said, I've adopted the Mansons as my main guitars these days - the combination of the chunk from the TOM bridge with the geometry and snap of a Fender style guitar, it's just a match made in heaven for me. I feel like I'm getting the best of both worlds - all mahogany set neck guitars combined with modern articulation and tuning stability.
Was hard to swallow the $440 USD price tag but I ordered a set of black covered Polymaths for my E-II M-II in Black Natural Fade with a Hipshot bridge.
I tune this guitar to drop A# so I am very interested in how this will do. My go to pickups (and favorite combination) are Riff Raffs in Les Pauls. The clarity, punch, and 3D quality are phenomenal through my VH4. I also have been digging Emeralds in my Eclipses and Silos in my Horizon III.
Was looking at a Holydiver set for some Horizons until I saw the Polymaths. I have yet to install the A-Bombs and Black Dogs I have in Horizons, but I want to try them all, so I just went for it. I will get a set of Holydivers soon.
I was told by Tim that the the black matte covers should sound the same as Nickel covers and not affect their tone really. The video sounds phenomenal with covered pickups so I took the plunge. Big fan of Nolly's work and ear so this will be fun to give them a spin. I hope they get along well with my VH4 even if they're higher output. (My VH4 typically likes more vintage/vintage hot pickups)
Thanks so much, I really appreciate it's not an easy decision to drop serious cash on pickups you can't try in advance, so I hope you like them! I've used them with my VH4 plenty, and they work very well. I'd describe them as borderline "Vintage Hot" pickups, they're really not far off the Emeralds or Abraxas in output, for example. Certainly pickups like the Rebel Yell and Crawler drive an amp a bit harder if you leave the pickup heights the same. I will say that I love getting the Polymaths right up on the strings though, they get very angry sounding but still don't hit an amp as hard as - say - a JB or Nailbomb or Holy Diver.
I look forward to hearing how you get on!
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thanks for the info / reply Nolly.
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Nolly, just a quick shout out. Really appreciate your contributions to the forum and product development. Hope these sales allow you to retire, get fat, and live a comfy life (not in that order). You've paid your dues. You're on my top 10 list of fav contemporary instrumentalists.
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Hi Nolly, can you talk a bit about the Polymath's neck pickup in more depth?
How is it for distorted soloing a la Dave Murray, Yngwie, John Petrucci etc. (yes they all have different tones, but use the neck pickup quite a bit for soloing with distortion)? Does it have a pronounced attack? Is it fatter or brighter voiced in general?
Thanks, Chris
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Nolly, just a quick shout out. Really appreciate your contributions to the forum and product development. Hope these sales allow you to retire, get fat, and live a comfy life (not in that order). You've paid your dues. You're on my top 10 list of fav contemporary instrumentalists.
Thanks so much, those are some incredible compliments that I don't feel I deserve but I'm very honoured that you'd feel that way. To be perfectly honest, making money was about the furthest thing from my mind when we designed the Polymaths, it was an amazing experience to learn more about pickups and to find a cool new approach that gives me the results I've always wanted. I really hope everyone loves them too.
P.S. Glad you said "not in that order" - I'm working on the fat part right now, seems more achievable than the other bits..
Hi Nolly, can you talk a bit about the Polymath's neck pickup in more depth?
How is it for distorted soloing a la Dave Murray, Yngwie, John Petrucci etc. (yes they all have different tones, but use the neck pickup quite a bit for soloing with distortion)? Does it have a pronounced attack? Is it fatter or brighter voiced in general?
Thanks, Chris
Hey Chris, nice question, I haven't spent much time talking about the neck pickup yet! It really excels under gain - it's got some of the Petrucci tubular quality but less wooly on the low strings especially. It's a very unconventional design that mixes two wire gauges, and also has a couple of other design features that mean it stays open and touch sensitive despite the unusual DC resistance reading. Using the unoriented A5 in the neck makes the midrange sing and also gives a similar slight squish on the attack like the bridge pickup does too. To me this evokes that drool-worthy Andy Timmons attack character and actually the Polymath neck in parallel coil mode does a decent impression of the Cruiser pickups AT uses - single-coil-y but you can dig in hard and it doesn't get too toppy or harsh.
To answer your questions more directly:
- It is really fluid under gain but is harmonically rich enough to express your playing nuances. I play leads on the bridge pickup 99% of the time because I love the harmonic richness, but the Polymath neck is one of few that I feel can be similarly expressive, and I find myself using it a lot.
- It has a clear attack, but it's lower down the spectrum than your typical PAF-y 42AWG 7.5-8.5k DCR neck pickup, which is why I'd describe it as more "modern" voiced. Again, I'll say the parallel coil sound is so good it's definitely worth wiring up as an option, it'll give you all the vintage neck tone you could want.
- I don't know if I'd use "fat" or "bright" as a descriptor for it, I'd say instead it's a clear and tubular sound without excessive low or high end.
Hope that helps!
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Has anyone else grabbed a set of these? I'm keen to hear some feedback.
Here's what I want to know after listening to the clips that are out there and reading as much as I can about the various BKP models.
I've wanted a set of BKPs for my alder bolt on maple neck guitar for a while. While many friends try to steer me towards the PAF or slightly hotter PAF variants, my issue with them is always about the overall EQ of the pickup, and that their EQ more often suits LP style guitars than it does longer scale bolt on styles. The Polymaths appear to address a lot of my concerns in terms of the overall EQ of the pickup and its suitability for a bolt on guitar. Not being too hot, but also not too vintage in output and fixing the issues with vintage PAFs.
I've listened to the clean clips of all the pickups on the website, as clean is always where I start. To me I like the Polymath clean tones the most, especially the bridge. However I realise what sounds good clean, amy not sound good gained up and vice-versa. I'm not as modern a style player as Nolly and my concern is that I don't really like the crunch sounds all that much, but also because the crunch tones use a different riff and amp to the other BKP demo's it makes it hard to compare to other models. I've listened to the YT clip of the guy that has them in a Steinburger style guitar, but with that guitar that I am unfamiliar with how it would normally sound, and the level of gain he uses, I cannot draw any conclusions.
Has anyone got them yet and can relate how they sit on the vintage to modern spectrum?
For the neck I've never understood having a neck pickup that sounds stronger and so much thicker than the bridge pickup, which is what you get with typical PAFs. I would prefer a P90 or single coil tone in the neck and a hotter bridge that is thicker and meatier in tone.
For the bridge, I guess on the scale of 1 - 100 where 1 is pure vintage and 100 is modern high output super tight bridge I want a pickup that is about 40 on that scale. Elements of vintage, but with improvements so its not shrill and thin in a bolt on scenario.
As these will cost a little over $600 in AUS, I'd like to get a bit more info before I plonk my money down.
Any feedback would be helpful, but I realise not many people may have them yet.
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As a general point note that in BKP sets the neck pickup is always different from the bridge pickup (and is not shown in the frequency charts) and is of a lower output
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Can’t speak to the Polymath in anything, but the Crawler in my Strat’s bridge brings the meat to the board.
So, there’s that if The Polymath doesn’t work for you. I’ll be following this myself, as I’m very curious re the Polymath.
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Does it work well in PRS custom? From the specs and eq curve it seems like a bit lower output and a bit warmer than the rebel yell, how close do they sound? I really like my rebel yell, but interested in trying something a bit fatter while retaining RY’s tightness.
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Does it work well in PRS custom? From the specs and eq curve it seems like a bit lower output and a bit warmer than the rebel yell, how close do they sound? I really like my rebel yell, but interested in trying something a bit fatter while retaining RY’s tightness.
In the bridge position, the Polymath certainly has a softer front edge to the note than the Rebel Yell, given the different magnet make-up, plus has a very broad midrange, so it does have an overall warmer / smoother feel. The treble and overtone content is most definitely still there, just not quite so immediate on the attack as the Rebel Yell.
In the neck position, the Polymath has a deeper bass response, as well as a full midrange and is overall a little more commanding than the Rebel Yell. I think that if you're looking for something that's a bit broader than the Rebel Yell in your PRS, the Polymath can definitely work for that!
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Finally got the bridge pickup installed today. 'Goldilocks' sort of pickup was an apt description for it. The low end is fat and chunky but still as percussive as the RY it replaced. The harmonics are insane. What a great pickup!! well done.
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Finally got the bridge pickup installed today. 'Goldilocks' sort of pickup was an apt description for it. The low end is fat and chunky but still as percussive as the RY it replaced. The harmonics are insane. What a great pickup!! well done.
I'm so so glad to read that, thanks for sharing!
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In the bridge position, the Polymath certainly has a softer front edge to the note than the Rebel Yell, given the different magnet make-up, plus has a very broad midrange, so it does have an overall warmer / smoother feel. The treble and overtone content is most definitely still there, just not quite so immediate on the attack as the Rebel Yell.
For my applications the Rebel Yell was a bit too bright and had a bit too much hair/sizzle in the top end.
Compared to the Rebel Yell, does the Polymath have less of that "hairy" upper-mid/treble quality to it?
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For my applications the Rebel Yell was a bit too bright and had a bit too much hair/sizzle in the top end.
Compared to the Rebel Yell, does the Polymath have less of that "hairy" upper-mid/treble quality to it?
Yep, the Polymath definitely has less upper midrange/treble emphasis than the Rebel Yell.
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Ok, I am going to give them a shot then. Will report back when I have them installed.
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For my applications the Rebel Yell was a bit too bright and had a bit too much hair/sizzle in the top end.
Compared to the Rebel Yell, does the Polymath have less of that "hairy" upper-mid/treble quality to it?
A tangential interjection: It's funny for me to think of the Rebel Yell as having 'hair' compared to the Alnico Nailbomb. That thing is unapologetically pissed off.
Do post a review of the Polymath set.
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I’m wondering how the Polymath bridge might pair with a Mule neck? I’m thinking the Mule would give me a cleaner clearer sound which isn’t wooly or bass heavy as I tend to like a P90 or very clear tone in this position, and then the Polymath would give me that hotter chunkier bridge tone.
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I'm getting a polymath set in a new build with a 5 way super switch. I definitely want to keep bridge full in series in one position and neck full in series in another position, but I'm open to suggestions for wiring for the other 3 available positions. Just looking for a good all around set up. I do like a tele bridge sound if that's any help.
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As mentioned in other posts. The cost of materials has massively increased over the last year or two. We always hold off as much as we can but it gets to a point where we do need to raise the price when some materials are almost doubling in cost.
We tend to buy raw material in bigger volumes to maintain prices for a longer period of time. We make all our own tooling so we are not as reliant on suppliers and also means we have full control of the quality of all of our parts. This also prevents us running out of parts, as seen with other brands in the last year or two who just buy them in.
We will never compromise on our materials and parts which means there is no cost saving method to this strategy, but what it does mean is that with Bare Knuckle, you know you're getting the highest build quality pickups in the industry - backed up with our lifetime warranty.
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Do post a review of the Polymath set.
Received my Polymath bridge PU and mounted it into a ebony FB, pau ferro neck, brasil cedro(mahagony/alder), maple top super strat. Accoustically, the guitar is snappy/fast responding, lean with an nasaly upper-mid resonance peak. I installed them without any split coil options, for now.
In humbucking mode they sound balanced with slightly pronounced center- to low mids. I like the blooming mid growl when hitting the strings hard. The Note separation is very good, playing fast single note lines, each note can be heard clearly, no overpowering frequencies that dominate. Lows and highs are there, but without making the Polymath sounding flabby or shrill in any ways.
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I’m wondering how the Polymath bridge might pair with a Mule neck? I’m thinking the Mule would give me a cleaner clearer sound which isn’t wooly or bass heavy as I tend to like a P90 or very clear tone in this position, and then the Polymath would give me that hotter chunkier bridge tone.
So I’ve just installed the Polymath neck today replacing a Stormy Monday, I actually had the Mule neck in the same guitar, all with nickel covers.
I always felt the Mule was very bassy (perhaps it just doesn’t mix well with this particular guitar) and it had rather slow/chewy pick response. (I LOVE the Mule bridge though).
The Polymath neck definitely has a faster pick attack. I didn’t notice any excessive/boomy bass, the tone is rather warm but with excellent clarity and string separation. With PAF-style pickups I often tilt the high strings side much higher to balance the sound, but with this pickup not so much.
I was afraid it might overpower the Polymath bridge (I’m used to neck pickups in 7-8k range), but it’s actually not that hot, output-wise it balance perfectly with the bridge pickup. I also really like the 2nd-4th position sound, very chimey. Definitely more usable than before. The lead sound with gain is very liquid and violin-like. The tone match/contrast really well with the bridge pickup. Overall very impressed with these pickup set.
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I’m wondering how the Polymath bridge might pair with a Mule neck? I’m thinking the Mule would give me a cleaner clearer sound which isn’t wooly or bass heavy as I tend to like a P90 or very clear tone in this position, and then the Polymath would give me that hotter chunkier bridge tone.
So I’ve just installed the Polymath neck today replacing a Stormy Monday, I actually had the Mule neck in the same guitar, all with nickel covers.
I always felt the Mule was very bassy (perhaps it just doesn’t mix well with this particular guitar) and it had rather slow/chewy pick response. (I LOVE the Mule bridge though).
The Polymath neck definitely has a faster pick attack. I didn’t notice any excessive/boomy bass, the tone is rather warm but with excellent clarity and string separation. With PAF-style pickups I often tilt the high strings side much higher to balance the sound, but with this pickup not so much.
I was afraid it might overpower the Polymath bridge (I’m used to neck pickups in 7-8k range), but it’s actually not that hot, output-wise it balance perfectly with the bridge pickup. I also really like the 2nd-4th position sound, very chimey. Definitely more usable than before. The lead sound with gain is very liquid and violin-like. The tone match/contrast really well with the bridge pickup. Overall very impressed with these pickup set.
could you go over your wiring schema? is one reverse polarity?
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I’m wondering how the Polymath bridge might pair with a Mule neck? I’m thinking the Mule would give me a cleaner clearer sound which isn’t wooly or bass heavy as I tend to like a P90 or very clear tone in this position, and then the Polymath would give me that hotter chunkier bridge tone.
So I’ve just installed the Polymath neck today replacing a Stormy Monday, I actually had the Mule neck in the same guitar, all with nickel covers.
I always felt the Mule was very bassy (perhaps it just doesn’t mix well with this particular guitar) and it had rather slow/chewy pick response. (I LOVE the Mule bridge though).
The Polymath neck definitely has a faster pick attack. I didn’t notice any excessive/boomy bass, the tone is rather warm but with excellent clarity and string separation. With PAF-style pickups I often tilt the high strings side much higher to balance the sound, but with this pickup not so much.
I was afraid it might overpower the Polymath bridge (I’m used to neck pickups in 7-8k range), but it’s actually not that hot, output-wise it balance perfectly with the bridge pickup. I also really like the 2nd-4th position sound, very chimey. Definitely more usable than before. The lead sound with gain is very liquid and violin-like. The tone match/contrast really well with the bridge pickup. Overall very impressed with these pickup set.
I completely agree with this assessment. The Polymath set is great option for mid-gain and hard rock tones with excellent clarity and string separation. I think metal players will be underwhelmed by the output and lack of compression, but they shouldn’t be. These are in fact positives and can create extremely tight, percussive tones. I pout a set in a EBMM Axis (and switched to a 250K EVH volume pot since there is no tone circuit, and I am very impressed. FWIW - I think it also works great with a Mule neck if you have 5-way switch. Classic, punk, grunge, and hard rock players should definitely give it try!
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...I'm sure Brexit/pandemic/nickel shortage are contributing factors, but at what point does "because we can" become detrimental to customers? £250-£300, pricey but worth it if you never have to buy another set of pickups for that guitar again. But £350 to £400?
Over here in the States Bare Knuckles have always been expensive, but with the most recent price hikes, they've really become prohibitively so in my opinion. It's a shame, but I find myself looking to other quality builders (Suhr is another personal favorite of mine) that are almost half the price. If we could walk into a store and audition a dozen different pickups and then walk out with the one set that we like the most I wouldn't mind paying more, but it gets too expensive and too time consuming to go through a few sets trying to find exactly the right one.
All music gear prices have skyrocketed over the past two years, though, and don't show signs of dropping ever again. It's unfortunate.
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could you go over your wiring schema? is one reverse polarity?
I ordered the neck pickup with reverse magnet, since it is going into a dual humbucker guitar with 5-way switch.
So my wiring scheme is basically PRS 5-way blade wiring (bridge HB, bridge HB+neck outer coil, both HB, bridge+neck outer coil, neck HB). I compared inner coil vs outer coil and I found the outer coil combinations to have more chime so I went with that. I recently added a push pull tone pot for “partial split” based on PRS DGT schema (2.2k resistor for bridge, 1.1k for neck), the split tone is great, the split bridge in particular is very tele-like with only a slight drop in output. I’m curious to try the parallel sound, but haven’t had the time to rewire the guitar.