Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Bainzy on May 11, 2006, 06:40:25 PM
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History behind the amp:
I bought it in 2005 (october I think), and got a Metroamp PTP board for it with Mallories. When I got chance I replaced those caps with Sozo's, and replaced the cr@ppy Output Transformer with a Metroamp Dagnall Clone (made to their spec by Heyboer). Along the way I've changed lots of things, added in extra tube mods, switches etc.
I finally got an old digital camera I had working, so I thought I'd use it to take some long-due pics of my amp and guitar. The custom Warmoth guitar isn't assembled at the moment (refinishing it), so I've only got my 2004 strat in the pictures.
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-020F2.jpg)
Feel free to ask me about any of the modifications that I've done on it. The 4th preamp tube mod isn't connected at the moment, but you can see a row of parts in the middle of the extra circuit board - that's for the extra tube when I feel like hooking it up, to make it into a switchable 1959/2203.
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-012F2.jpg)
The switch at the back of the amp is for a switchable V2a cathode bypass cap, selecting between a .68uF Sozo cap and a 330uF electrolytic. The capacitor and resistor near the far right hand upper corner of the chassis are substitutes for the presence control, as you can see theres a PPIMV in the presence hole instead.
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-006F.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-007F.jpg)
All signal capacitors are Sozo Mustard+, the preamp used to be all CC but I replaced some of them that I didn't feel had any effect on the tone. My favourite mod is the 1k V2a cathode resistor (shown between the .68uf and 330uf capacitors) that's a (1/8w or 1/4w?) NOS carbon comp resistor I once found in a bag of old capacitors - the leads are mostly gone so I've had to wire it strangely but it sounds awesome. It's drifted up to about 1160 ohms.
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-005F.jpg)
Since this was the first amp I ever worked on, and I've changed so much in this amp so many times, it's pretty dirty/messy inside. I'd like to rewire everything again at some stage but it's hard finding the time these days.
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-002F.jpg)
The tubes are JJ E34L's for the power tubes, Sylvania 12AX7WA for V2 and V3, and Sylvania 12AX7 (later version) for V1. Sometimes I use a Mullard in V1. When I use V0 (the extra gain stage tube) it's either a JJ ECC83S or an RFT ECC83.
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-013F.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-017F.jpg)
The empty hole in the back panel is from a pentode/triode switch that isn't fitted at the moment - I took it out temporarily while I was doing some work around that area, it was getting in the way and I don't use triode mode as much these days.
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-015F.jpg)
More gut shots:
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-009F.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-004F2.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/bainzy007/MVC-001F.jpg)
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wow.... how much did all those mods cost? + how much was the amp...
plus does it sound so good you want to cry?
plus whats the pedal-clone situation?
:lol: :lol: :D
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The mods have cost about £200-300 I think.
Yes. lol.
I dunno - I finished making that TS-808 for a mate and he's pretty pleased with it, but I'm really busy now so if I went along with it as some sort of business, it'd have to be around July.
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ok here's a clip:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=364256&songID=3915472
Strat > Plexi > 1960A cab > SM57 on '73 G12M
I'm just riding the volume knob to get the cleaner sounds. The guitar is set on 7/8 for the bridge and middle tone controls, and for the amp everything is on 10, except the PPIMV is on 1 and the treble control is on 7-8. I think the V2a cathode switch is set to 330uf here.
I'm just playing any random cr@p, hopefully this should be enough to demonstrate how it sounds with a strat. There's no extra gain stages here, and I don't think there's much in the signal path that wasn't in a late 60's 1959slp *except* there's less NFB (I'm using 100k on the 4ohm tap).
You'll have to put the speakers on fairly loud I'm afraid, if you want to get anywhere close to how this amp actually sounds over here.
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History behind the amp:
I bought it in 2005 (october I think), and got a Metroamp PTP board for it with Mallories. When I got chance I replaced those caps with Sozo's, and replaced the cr@ppy Output Transformer with a Metroamp Dagnall Clone (made to their spec by Heyboer). Along the way I've changed lots of things, added in extra tube mods, switches etc.
I finally got an old digital camera I had working, so I thought I'd use it to take some long-due pics of my amp and guitar. The custom Warmoth guitar isn't assembled at the moment (refinishing it), so I've only got my 2004 strat in the pictures.
Feel free to ask me about any of the modifications that I've done on it. The 4th preamp tube mod isn't connected at the moment, but you can see a row of parts in the middle of the extra circuit board - that's for the extra tube when I feel like hooking it up, to make it into a switchable 1959/2203.
The switch at the back of the amp is for a switchable V2a cathode bypass cap, selecting between a .68uF Sozo cap and a 330uF electrolytic. The capacitor and resistor near the far right hand upper corner of the chassis are substitutes for the presence control, as you can see theres a PPIMV in the presence hole instead.
All signal capacitors are Sozo Mustard+, the preamp used to be all CC but I replaced some of them that I didn't feel had any effect on the tone. My favourite mod is the 1k V2a cathode resistor (shown between the .68uf and 330uf capacitors) that's a (1/8w or 1/4w?) NOS carbon comp resistor I once found in a bag of old capacitors - the leads are mostly gone so I've had to wire it strangely but it sounds awesome. It's drifted up to about 1160 ohms.
Since this was the first amp I ever worked on, and I've changed so much in this amp so many times, it's pretty dirty/messy inside. I'd like to rewire everything again at some stage but it's hard finding the time these days.
The tubes are JJ E34L's for the power tubes, Sylvania 12AX7WA for V2 and V3, and Sylvania 12AX7 (later version) for V1. Sometimes I use a Mullard in V1. When I use V0 (the extra gain stage tube) it's either a JJ ECC83S or an RFT ECC83.
The empty hole in the back panel is from a pentode/triode switch that isn't fitted at the moment - I took it out temporarily while I was doing some work around that area, it was getting in the way and I don't use triode mode as much these days.
I understood about four words of that :?
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sounded AWESOME dude... how come no-one else has listened and replied?
the 4:00 bit was so cool... tone+playing wise....
nice one man... nice.... how old are you again?
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Thanks Sam, I'm 17 (18 this month, on the 29th). Maybe cos it's in the guitar, amps and effects section? Off topic seems to be more popular but I think it's best suited here.
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yer your probly right...
youve got a cool vibe going on with your playing... i remember your eruption stuff.... was awesome...
its not just the actual stuff your playing... its like the way your playing it, sounds excellent seriously.... dunno if that makes any sense lol...
but yer- nice one :D
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lol thanks - that means a lot. I've been working more on articulation and phrasing the past year, just trying to make simple things sound as good as possible (instead of my strategy for the other 2 years of playing, shred as fast as possible!).
I was actually planning on recording these small bits of playing and taking out the mediocre ones (leaving the best), but I couldn't be bothered once I'd finished and thought "screw it, I'll just leave it as a big 5 minute clip", lol. I just wish strings didn't break so quickly on this strat, then I would've had an e string to use in the clip and been able to play the 'heartbreaker' solo (that's what I started playing around 4:00).
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Kewl tone, I just love plexis -modded or otherwise.
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It does sound nice! So are you going to get into business mdding amps and pedals?
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lol thanks - that means a lot. I've been working more on articulation and phrasing the past year, just trying to make simple things sound as good as possible (instead of my strategy for the other 2 years of playing, shred as fast as possible!).
I was actually planning on recording these small bits of playing and taking out the mediocre ones (leaving the best), but I couldn't be bothered once I'd finished and thought "screw it, I'll just leave it as a big 5 minute clip", lol. I just wish strings didn't break so quickly on this strat, then I would've had an e string to use in the clip and been able to play the 'heartbreaker' solo (that's what I started playing around 4:00).
yer THAT was it!!! i recognised some zeppelin i knew it...
yer what you say about the phrasing- thats i was getting at... it really is noticable... so your efforts on that front have paid off mate...
i should really stop praising you now lol... ok no more...
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It does sound nice! So are you going to get into business mdding amps and pedals?
I'm not sure really at the moment - I've got a lot on my plate right now. There's my A2 exams starting on the 22nd, and straight after those I'm recording the power metal band 'Unforgotten Oath' with my home-studio gear. It's something to consider while I'm at uni though.
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yer THAT was it!!! i recognised some zeppelin i knew it...
yer what you say about the phrasing- thats i was getting at... it really is noticable... so your efforts on that front have paid off mate...
i should really stop praising you now lol... ok no more...
:lol:
It's such an awesome song, so much so that I GAS for an LP with Black Dogs in every time I hear it! :twisted:
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haha yeah tis a great song... and the solo is just crazy... you can play it? i mean... its like.... just random notes going mental i swear.... kudos if you can mate... serious kudos...
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Got to admit - great tone! How the hell does a 17 year old learn so much about amps????? Respect!
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All through the internet! 8)
www.metroamp.com <- that's pretty much the best place to learn right now, the technical discussions that are going on are really cool and I don't know a website that discusses the internal workings of amp so openly. Most amp websites are either backwards looking ("if it works, don't fix it") or secretive about what makes amps sound great.
To put it into perspective, in september 2005 I'd never even owned a valve amp before...
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Thanks Bainzy
It's pretty inspiring to the rest of us that you have come so far with it in a short space of time.
the link to the site was great thanks for that - I now have another forum worthy of my attention.
Is there anywhere else that you have found worthy of reading online?
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History behind the amp:
I bought it in 2005 (october I think), and got a Metroamp PTP board for it with Mallories. When I got chance I replaced those caps with Sozo's, and replaced the cr@ppy Output Transformer with a Metroamp Dagnall Clone (made to their spec by Heyboer). Along the way I've changed lots of things, added in extra tube mods, switches etc.
I finally got an old digital camera I had working, so I thought I'd use it to take some long-due pics of my amp and guitar. The custom Warmoth guitar isn't assembled at the moment (refinishing it), so I've only got my 2004 strat in the pictures.
Feel free to ask me about any of the modifications that I've done on it. The 4th preamp tube mod isn't connected at the moment, but you can see a row of parts in the middle of the extra circuit board - that's for the extra tube when I feel like hooking it up, to make it into a switchable 1959/2203.
The switch at the back of the amp is for a switchable V2a cathode bypass cap, selecting between a .68uF Sozo cap and a 330uF electrolytic. The capacitor and resistor near the far right hand upper corner of the chassis are substitutes for the presence control, as you can see theres a PPIMV in the presence hole instead.
All signal capacitors are Sozo Mustard+, the preamp used to be all CC but I replaced some of them that I didn't feel had any effect on the tone. My favourite mod is the 1k V2a cathode resistor (shown between the .68uf and 330uf capacitors) that's a (1/8w or 1/4w?) NOS carbon comp resistor I once found in a bag of old capacitors - the leads are mostly gone so I've had to wire it strangely but it sounds awesome. It's drifted up to about 1160 ohms.
Since this was the first amp I ever worked on, and I've changed so much in this amp so many times, it's pretty dirty/messy inside. I'd like to rewire everything again at some stage but it's hard finding the time these days.
The tubes are JJ E34L's for the power tubes, Sylvania 12AX7WA for V2 and V3, and Sylvania 12AX7 (later version) for V1. Sometimes I use a Mullard in V1. When I use V0 (the extra gain stage tube) it's either a JJ ECC83S or an RFT ECC83.
The empty hole in the back panel is from a pentode/triode switch that isn't fitted at the moment - I took it out temporarily while I was doing some work around that area, it was getting in the way and I don't use triode mode as much these days.
I understood about four words of that :?
Man the letter L.O.L. do not due justice to how hard I laughed when I read that.
Dont get me wrong, Im no moron, ask me a question on how engines work or just about anything with two or more wheels and I'm able to follow. I just dont know what a 330uf cathode transdensorizer does.
Geez I'm glad somebodey else asked for that link about metro amp.
I'll start reading. :D
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Thanks Bainzy
It's pretty inspiring to the rest of us that you have come so far with it in a short space of time.
the link to the site was great thanks for that - I now have another forum worthy of my attention.
Is there anywhere else that you have found worthy of reading online?
Metroamp's probably the best, but there's also these which I'd recommend checking out:
http://www.aikenamps.com/TechInfo_2.htm
http://marshall.redpt.com/clay/marshall.html
http://www.plexipalace.com/plexiboard/index.php
http://www.hoffmanamps.com/Forum/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=TubeAmpBuilding
http://p210.ezboard.com/bampworkshop
I didn't think most people would understand the technical details of what I posted, but I left it in partly for the people who do, but also for people who'd like to learn and can use it as a reference for modding their own amps.
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thanks for the gory technical details ;) i love that stuff
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Is that an old Marshall that had the tranny replaced with a cr@ppy one, or a new handwired one? Looks new and I commend you for replacing that tranny!
May I suggest SED "Winged C" tubes for the poweramp with the next retube. I find them to sound significantly better than JJs (or anything else for that matter, but JJs are better than most)
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Thanks Sam, I'm 17 (18 this month, on the 29th). Maybe cos it's in the guitar, amps and effects section? Off topic seems to be more popular but I think it's best suited here.
Not bad for a 17 year old. I didn't even know output transformers had any effect on sound until recently. I'm 24 and I can't mod anything!
Your sound clips sound great! I can hear every little detail, like the springs in the guitar vibrating when you stop playing! Amazing! How far did you turn the volume up?
It appears you have some sort of boost that you built right into it, or is that the 4th preamp tube switch that has not yet been connected yet? The old marshalls with a 4th preamp tube slay all in terms of a distorted tone ;)
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ahem, Ampage (cough!), - AMPAGE... www.ampage.org
:twisted:
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Cool pics, Bainzy. Maybe if I go to those sites I might learn how to mod my Rivera Knucklehead 100 in a year. I definitely want to try retubing first. How much do the JJs run you, and where's the best place to get 'em? and I might as well ask how much, and where for the sylvanias? FP_Dean, I am interested in those winged C thingys too. Cough up the price info please, bro :P Thanks in advance, Going to the clip now, Bainzy.... Peace.
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http://www.watfordvalves.com for all your valve needs...
Your SLP reminds of my GH50L Laney (switchable extra gain valve).
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Is that an old Marshall that had the tranny replaced with a cr@ppy one, or a new handwired one? Looks new and I commend you for replacing that tranny!
May I suggest SED "Winged C" tubes for the poweramp with the next retube. I find them to sound significantly better than JJs (or anything else for that matter, but JJs are better than most)
Yeh it's a 2005 1959slp, that I removed the PCB from and replaced it with a PTP board. I changed the output transformer in december with a Metroamp Dagnall clone, a big improvement in tone from the stock OT!
Did you know Dagnall don't even put the right OT spec in these amps? They put the later C2668 that came into use in the 70's, and even at that, it's a pretty poor C2668 compared to the originals. The right OT should be a C1998 spec one. Metroamp have it nailed down to the exact grades of steel (accounting for variations in quality of steel production over the years), self-lead wires and correct windings, I can't commend them enough.
Thanks Sam, I'm 17 (18 this month, on the 29th). Maybe cos it's in the guitar, amps and effects section? Off topic seems to be more popular but I think it's best suited here.
Not bad for a 17 year old. I didn't even know output transformers had any effect on sound until recently. I'm 24 and I can't mod anything!
Your sound clips sound great! I can hear every little detail, like the springs in the guitar vibrating when you stop playing! Amazing! How far did you turn the volume up?
It appears you have some sort of boost that you built right into it, or is that the 4th preamp tube switch that has not yet been connected yet? The old marshalls with a 4th preamp tube slay all in terms of a distorted tone ;)
That's the great thing you get from this amp which you can't get with modern amps and loads of compressed preamp gain. The 4th preamp tube isn't connected right now, but it does sound really cool when it's on 8)
Most of the extra gain your hearing in the clip is power amp gain, there's no more gain in the preamp than you'd hear from any old Marshall 1959. I managed to increase the gain through use of less negative feedback, which worked really well. I can't wait to make a clip now with humbuckers in it, that should sound awesome.
The preamp volume is on 10, and I'm varying the guitar volumes throughout the clip to get less or more gain. The post phase-inverter master volume I put in is on 1, and is at bedroom volume.
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Cool pics, Bainzy. Maybe if I go to those sites I might learn how to mod my Rivera Knucklehead 100 in a year. I definitely want to try retubing first. How much do the JJs run you, and where's the best place to get 'em? and I might as well ask how much, and where for the sylvanias? FP_Dean, I am interested in those winged C thingys too. Cough up the price info please, bro :P Thanks in advance, Going to the clip now, Bainzy.... Peace.
The JJ E34L's cost me about £35 for a matched quad, and that includes all postage costs too. I got them from Metroamp.com, as I knew that George would be able to burn them in for me and he's a JJ/Tesla dealer so gets them at a great price.
I'm afraid I can't really help you as much with the Slyvania's, the ones I'm running were made about 50 years ago lol. I got them from ebay for about £3-5 each.
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Did you know Dagnall don't even put the right OT spec in these amps? They put the later C2668 that came into use in the 70's, and even at that, it's a pretty poor C2668 compared to the originals. The right OT should be a C1998 spec one. Metroamp have it nailed down to the exact grades of steel (accounting for variations in quality of steel production over the years), self-lead wires and correct windings, I can't commend them enough.
I actually did not know that, but that is really bad that they can't even get that part right! The new Dagnalls are junk regardless, so I guess it doesn't really matter. The C2668 was introduced with the JCM 800s in 1980 actually. The 2203/2204s from the 70s had the C1998 still. The C2668 is a bit brighter sounding - more 80sish. That amp should have a plexi-spec (the super large ones) or a C1998.
The one I am putting in my SL-X is a C1998. I was going to do a C2668, but I thought about it and I figure with 4 12AX7s of gain on tap, it will be bright enough.
That's the great thing you get from this amp which you can't get with modern amps and loads of compressed preamp gain. The 4th preamp tube isn't connected right now, but it does sound really cool when it's on 8)
Most of the extra gain your hearing in the clip is power amp gain, there's no more gain in the preamp than you'd hear from any old Marshall 1959. I managed to increase the gain through use of less negative feedback, which worked really well. I can't wait to make a clip now with humbuckers in it, that should sound awesome.
The preamp volume is on 10, and I'm varying the guitar volumes throughout the clip to get less or more gain. The post phase-inverter master volume I put in is on 1, and is at bedroom volume.
I have a Marshall Major which is my cleaner amp. The power section beings breaking up with the volume only at 2 if that, and maybe 4 with a strat. I love the way that old Marshalls sound - even modded for more gain with 4 12AX7s, or not.
On my metal amp, the SL-X I always keep a good mix between preamp and poweramp distortion. The poweramp distortion makes your sound, and the preamp makes it sound however you want it to sound.
You should sell modded 1959SLPs to people. I would love one with a quality transformer and a switchable 4th preamp tube so I can go all the way from the old stuff, like Led Zeppelin or newer heavier stuff like Iron Maiden in one old Marshall.
My goal with the SL-X is to make it sound like a hotrodded 1959SLP.... something like a Lee Jackson modded Marshall. With preamp gain but loads of poweramp gain and a mean overall sound. New transformer, I'll have some of the resistors in the preamp raised to clean it up a little, and see how that goes. If that doesn't do what I want I'll have the preamp tubes dropped down to 5.9 (normal-range) volts from 6.5.
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FP_Dean, I am interested in those winged C thingys too. Cough up the price info please, bro :P Thanks in advance, Going to the clip now, Bainzy.... Peace.
Check www.thetubestore.com or www.tubedepot.com for them. I'm 99%sure that the SED tubes tubedepot.com sells are the right ones, but I know thetubestore.com sells them for $40 for a matched pair and clearly labels them so you know they are SEDs and not the cheaper Svetlanas.
Svetlanas are not the same, be sure to get the SEDs which should mention "Winged C" somewhere. I used them with my Major and my friend had an old Fender in which he has had everything in and the SED were by far the best - even better than the new Groove Tubes made 6L6s. Another friend had a JCM 900 with SEDs and it was the warmest sounding power section I've ever heard. The same thing is going into my SL-X.
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I just listened to the clip, sounds soo perfect, awesome crunch :D
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I'm putting power scaling in this amp next week, so not only will I be able to get phase inverter distortion at bedroom volumes - but power tube distortion too! Power scaling reduces the plate voltage going into the power tubes but maintains the bias current. Apparently power tubes last just as long as preamp tubes when using power scaling! :o
I really need to get hold of a Les Paul and reinstall the extra tube so I can demonstrate some clips of the Caswell mod in this amp...
If you think the amp sounds good right now, you should hear it when I get power scaling in. I've got a grounding issue that I haven't got round to fixing yet, and because the PPIMV renders the NFB loop less effective, extraneous noise gets through the lower you turn it down - that's why the high end in the clip sounds really wierd and unpleasant. I managed to dial most of it out, but you can still hear it if you listen closely. It tends to make the amp sortof sterile sounding. Once I rewire the ground and/or use power scaling, that problem will disappear completely though.
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Thanks, everyone, for the tube info :D Cheers, Bainzy, You are a beacon of hope for the younger generation. keep up the good work.
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Be sure to give us clips with a guitar with mid output humbuckers through that baby with 4 tubes so we can hear what it'll do for high gain too! ;)
You may have some extra work in the future if you'd be up for it.
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Only just got around to listening to the clip and I gotta say I almost cried. That tone is to die for! Congrats Bainzy, if only we all had your talents.