Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Fend on May 15, 2006, 12:36:39 PM

Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 15, 2006, 12:36:39 PM
Hello everybody

Since years, I'm looking for MY perfect sound.
I found my amp (Engl Savage 120), I found my cab (4*12 Custom Audio Amp. with Greenbacks HPs), I found my guitars (ESP and custom made).
My music is a kind of post-hardcore, a fusion of rock'n'roll, metal and hardcore...

I'm looking for good bridge pickup, unfortunately BKP's descriptions are not enough precise for me so I need your help.

I'm looking for a pickup with a pronounced vintage organic rock'n'roll tone, a huge attack, lot of dynamics, with an equalisation balanced but with a little more bass and mediums and the most defined as possible.
My amp is an high-gain, so output level does not matter.

I found the DiMarzio Virtual Hot Paf (DP214), it's an excellent pickup but I want something more incisive, less muddy low-mid, you know ? And it's not enough defined for me...

What pickup can you recommend to me ?

In advance, thank you very much for your answers.
And scuse me for my bad english !!
 :D
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Twinfan on May 15, 2006, 02:07:05 PM
It sounds to me like you need a VHII, but I'm no expert.  Let's see what the other guys suggest!

(Oh, and you're English is much better than my French!)
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: steve on May 15, 2006, 02:21:08 PM
I would say Mule,but then i would they are in all my guitars now.
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 15, 2006, 02:42:51 PM
Thanks :D

And why those two pickups ?
Wich differences between them ?
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Twinfan on May 15, 2006, 04:09:35 PM
VHII is a hot PAF tone, modelled after the Van Halen II album.  If you're after classic rock, I think it's the one you want.
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Ced777 on May 15, 2006, 06:24:44 PM
VH II has lot of treble (but have a lot more punch, dynamic, and is more cutting than the DP214F). If you prefer a bit more bass and mids, maybe:
1/ Abraxas? (maybe compress a bit much)
2/ Black Dog?
3/ Crawler?

I would vote for a Mule if you are ok for a PAF style output. Or maybe a Crawler if you want more punch and output (never tried one, though)
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Tellboy on May 15, 2006, 07:32:22 PM
Quote from: steve
I would say Mule,but then i would they are in all my guitars now.


Steve you've posted several (excellent) clips using various BKPs  - I'm curious why you've now put Mules in all your guitars ?
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: steve on May 15, 2006, 08:30:33 PM
Quote from: Tellboy
Quote from: steve
I would say Mule,but then i would they are in all my guitars now.


Steve you've posted several (excellent) clips using various BKPs  - I'm curious why you've now put Mules in all your guitars ?


I just sent you a PM answering your question.Cheers.
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Johnny Mac on May 15, 2006, 10:21:46 PM
The ne Rebel Yell sounds really really good! Why not have a listen to the sound clip by Steve Stevens in the players section.
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Tim on May 16, 2006, 07:48:20 AM
For great dry bite check out the Riff Raff!
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 16, 2006, 08:56:05 AM
Thanks to everybody for helping me !

My choice must be between The Mule or Crawler...
Not VHII, I don't want equalisation wth more trebles and I'm not THE VanHalen's sound fan !
Abraxas has less dynamics.

Can somebody describe me the Crawler ?
Wich difference with the Mule ?
Wich difference with the Abraxas ?
And the Riff Raff ?
Argh ! To many possibilities !!!

The Rebel Yell seems to be a great pickup but not enough "rock'n'roll" for me, I think !
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: indysmith on May 16, 2006, 11:51:00 AM
Quote from: Fend
The Rebel Yell seems to be a great pickup but not enough "rock'n'roll" for me, I think !

After playing a Rebel Yell through a JCM800 at LGS i assure yu there is NO PICKUP MORE ROCK'N'ROLL. it is the rock'n'roll KING!
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 16, 2006, 12:06:40 PM
Quote from: indysmith
Quote from: Fend
The Rebel Yell seems to be a great pickup but not enough "rock'n'roll" for me, I think !

After playing a Rebel Yell through a JCM800 at LGS i assure yu there is NO PICKUP MORE ROCK'N'ROLL. it is the rock'n'roll KING!

It's not what I've eard on the sound clips, but I know a sound clip is not very representative. I need my own experience... Unfortunately, it's too expansive to buy all BKP !
Wich pickups have you tried befor The Rebel Yell ?
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: carlaz on May 16, 2006, 12:19:09 PM
Quote from: Fend
Can somebody describe me the Crawler? Wich difference with the Mule? Wich difference with the Abraxas ?

The Mule is a classic PAF-style pickup, an excellent choice for "vintage" humbucker tones.  The Crawler and Abraxas are both like "hotter Mules", but differ in their bridge pickups.  The Crawler is a little hotter than the Abraxas and has more mid-range "grunt", while the Abraxas is slightly less hot and a bit sweeter toned.

I have a set of Crawlers in my Gibson LP Standard.  They are really intended for big, fat 70s-style hard blues-rock, so they are hot enough handle "metal" sounds but have enough vintage feel to work in classic rock.
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 16, 2006, 12:29:57 PM
Very nice description, thank you.
The Crawler seems to be the one !
I'd like the mid-range grunt !!

Scuse me but what means "hotter" for you ? More output level ? More bass ? Less defined (fat) ?
Witch of these 3 pickups is more defined and more dynamic ?
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: carlaz on May 16, 2006, 12:41:12 PM
Quote from: Fend
Scuse me but what means "hotter" for you ? More output level ? More bass ? Less defined (fat) ?

"Hotter" meaning "more output", or at least higher DC resistance (which is a rough guide to output).  The Mule bridge pickup is around 8.4k, the Crawler 15k (and the Abraxas 14k).
Quote from: Fend
Witch of these 3 pickups is more defined and more dynamic ?

I think all the BKPs have good definition when compared to most other brands. :)  But my feeling is that the lower output (less hot) pickups like the Mule may be what you call more "dynamic".  Hotter pickups have a more "compressed" sound.
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 16, 2006, 12:49:33 PM
Ok thanks !
I can explain what I call dynamic (maybe it's only a french expression ?)
The dynamic is the output level difference between the smaller pick attack and the harder. Dynamic is the opposite of compression.
So I think we talk about the same thing  :wink:
I like the sound respect my fingers :D
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 16, 2006, 01:00:03 PM
Maby a new detail can help us to find what's the best for me : I like organic sounds.

Abraxas's description is attractive when they said :"The sound is pure vintage, hot and bright with an organic, yet balanced mid range and extra power. From glorious clean to rich overdriven tones, dynamics and clarity are never compromised even when driven hard."
 :roll:
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: carlaz on May 16, 2006, 01:01:09 PM
Quote from: Fend
I can explain what I call dynamic (maybe it's only a french expression ?) The dynamic is the output level difference between the smaller pick attack and the harder. Dynamic is the opposite of compression.
So I think we talk about the same thing  :wink:
I like the sound respect my fingers :D

Yes, it seems like "dynamic" and "dynamique" still mean the same thing :) (I don't remember much of my French anymore :oops:, but I use a lot of Spanish, and I am sometimes surprised by words that I think ought to mean the same as the English version ... but don't! ;)).

Anyway ... a pickup with lower output (like a Mule) will be more dynamic.  Tim from BKP often says you can use guitars with Mules to play metal, but you have to really "dig" with your fingers because the Mules are less compressed than a pickup specifically designed for metal tones.

The Abraxas and the Crawler are intended to be "hot", driving an amplifier harder, but without losing all the "organic" feel and dynamics of a PAF-style pickup like the Mule. The Abraxas is inspired by Santana tones (quite hot compared to, say, Duane Allman, but still with an organic vibe), while the Crawler was designed for Geoff Whitehorn who has played with people like Paul Rodgers/Bad Company (hard 70s blues-rock styles, perhaps more "aggressive" than a Santana sound?)

Still, for real vintage feel -- very organic and very dynamic -- the PAF-style pickups are going to do that better than most, I think!  Do ask Tim :)
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 16, 2006, 01:06:56 PM
Quote from: carlaz
Tim from BKP often says you can use guitars with Mules to play metal, but you have to really "dig" with your fingers because the Mules are less compressed than a pickup specifically designed for metal tones.

It is P.E.R.F.E.C.T. !!
It's exactly what I'm searching for ! For a sound who respect exactly my picks attacks ! :D :D

I want to play metal with hard strings and hard pick's attacks :twisted:
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: carlaz on May 16, 2006, 01:15:25 PM
Sounds like Mules might be just what you want.  Check with Tim, who (a) makes the pickups :), and (b) plays guitars with Mules in an Ozzy/Sabbath cover band. :twisted:

There must also be some metal-styled music samples with Mules in the "Players" section of the forum ....
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 16, 2006, 01:38:14 PM
I've just MP Tim. Thank you very much for helping me ! :D
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: carlaz on May 16, 2006, 01:44:40 PM
Looking back through the thread, I see Tim earlier recommended the Riff Raff.  That's also a PAF-style, like the Mule, but with a slightly different feel. ("Brighter" perhaps, with more mid-range and/or treble? I have not heard as many Riff Raff samples as I have Mule samples.)  Still, it could be as good as option as the Mule depending on the exact tone you want; both will be very vintage, organic and dynamic.
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: Fend on May 16, 2006, 02:11:33 PM
I prefer more bass/mids than trebble. It's for my future guitare : maple neck and fingerboard and an alder body with maple top.
So the guitar will be bright and defined.
I need a pickup with little more bass than treble.
Title: WichBKP: vintage & defined sound wth lot attack & dy
Post by: OD-Black_Fire on May 16, 2006, 08:02:34 PM
Hotter is a loose term, but a good way to figure it out is to listen to Rammstein. They have a VERY VERY VERY HOT SOUND. Then listen to jazz. That's not hot.


I'm going to leech this topic a bit. How defined and tight is the bass on the Holy Drivers and Nailbombs?