Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Crazy_Joe on May 27, 2006, 05:20:29 PM

Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 27, 2006, 05:20:29 PM
Would i need if i wanted a thrash/80's vintage metal kind of sound, i'm talking about:
Annihilator,
Slayer,
Metallica - first 4 albums in particular master of puppets.
Megadeth - not first album though
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Sifu Ben on May 27, 2006, 05:29:44 PM
Hhmm, some quite different sounds really. I'd imagine Miracle Mans would give you the sort of Metallica and Slayer sounds (as both use EMGs, and prior to that Metallica used extra hot ceramic PUPs). Mustaine has a much less saturated sound, and a Holydiver or Rebel Yell would probably be better.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 27, 2006, 07:25:10 PM
Yeah i didn't have time to go into depth with that list, but now i shall elaborate on it. These albums have kind of the sound i want, but i like to play heavier stuff than this too so keep that in mind, im talking about death metal and stuff like that.

Forget that list for a second, if some people could listen to a Melodic-Death band called Kalmah and listen to songs off the album 'They Will Return' thats the kind of bridge and neck tone i would like, on that album they used standard Jackson pickups in their jackson soloist guitars i beleive.
Basically i want a thrashy kind of tone with some good dark evil death metal in there, also i like my harmonics, i know now everyone will say miracle man but im not sure if that is the pickup for me because they dont have that dark bassy death metalness about them. Im not sure if thats the words to describe the Kalmah tone but its the kind of tone or if im making any sense here, but if someone can find a solution it would be appreciated.
The specs of the guitar they are going into considering i get this guitar which is very likely are as follows:

Dean ML Black And Gold

Trans black,
Flame Maple Top,
Mahogany Body and Neck,
Set Neck,
Rosewood Fretboard,
Pearl Black Inlay,
"Black Gold" 12th Fret Inlay,
Gold Hardware,
Grover Tuners.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Sifu Ben on May 27, 2006, 07:30:16 PM
Isn't the stock set on Soloists a JB and Jazz? That takes us back to RY and HD. To be honest, I'd imagine that the tone you're after in that case is at least 70% about amp settings and cab miccing.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Sifu Ben on May 27, 2006, 07:31:33 PM
Anyway, If you want a dark but rich metal PUP with good bass response you probably want the nailbomb.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 27, 2006, 07:34:41 PM
No thats the new type of Jacksons, and even if it was i know for a fact that he changed them to jackson pups because he said on their forum. I want something with power but i need it to be capable of a nice melody line, i was pretty sure that i would get some warpigs, but then i don't know if i would regret it because there are no clips of people doing the styles that i like with them, and the only nailbombs i have heard are all in ibanez guitars and they will sound much different in the guitar i will have, but if i get nailbombs i wil think about how its inferior in power to the warpig and perhaps regret my decision if it doesnt give me what i want lol
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Sifu Ben on May 27, 2006, 07:36:15 PM
Ok, that's a mile away from metallica and slayer, and not even close to thrash  :roll:
 I'd say Holydiver, for that sort of sound.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 27, 2006, 07:40:44 PM
Have you listened to Kalmah? Beause i'm pretty sure a holydiver wouldn't satisfy their needs, maybe i phrased that wrong in my last post, but i think you are right with the nailbombs, i'll just listen to more clips on the players section, and maybe make a few requests.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: screamingdaisy on May 27, 2006, 07:41:26 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Joe
because they dont have that dark bassy death metalness about them.


In my opinion.....

.....death metal tones have alot to do with your choice of amp and how you EQ it.  Alot of bands that have that sort of sound use EMG pickups, and specifically an 81 in the bridge, which has almost no bass to it as it's almost all midrange and treble.  Since they let the amp and sheer volume take care of the bottom end, their sound stays tight.  If you choose a bass heavy pickup (ie, Invader) thinking that'll give you a tight, bassy, thraash/death sorta tone you're just going to be dissapointed again as your bottom end will tub out and your tone turn to mud as you add more gain.  There's a reason Hetfield pitched that thing early on.

Choose a good pickup with alot of mids and highs, that'll let you cut through tons of gain without loosing too much definition.  I'd also avoid ultra-high output pickups in favor of low to mid output pickups....they'll give you more string to string definition and less compression, both of which will help keep your palm mutes more separated and defined.  If you need more output, add a pedal to use as a clean boost.

IMO, you could take a set of Mules, run them into a 5150, mid-scoop like a madman, and pull off a decent Death Metal tone.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 27, 2006, 07:48:31 PM
But i don't have a high gain amp though, i am going to buy a H&K Matrix 100 combo.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: screamingdaisy on May 27, 2006, 07:56:39 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Joe
But i don't have a high gain amp though, i am going to buy a H&K Matrix 100 combo.


Pantera in a box....

(http://www.line6.com/tonecore/images/pedals/uberMetal.gif)
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 27, 2006, 07:57:12 PM
lol i have that...
Title: What pickups...
Post by: screamingdaisy on May 27, 2006, 08:00:47 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Joe
lol i have that...


 :twisted:
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Sifu Ben on May 27, 2006, 08:06:45 PM
Yes, I listened to Kalmah, hence my comments. They're speed metal rather than thrash, and they're not really that heavy. Certainly more at the Megadeth and Anthrax end of the scale rather than the Slayer and Metallica end. The sound actually has quite a lot of mid in it (to me the tone screams George Lynch), and there's not that much saturated distortion. I'd say Holydivers would do this with ease. If your amp isn't up to it there are numerous inexpensive pedals that will take you into this realm with ease (again, you don't even need it to be that powerful, something like a Digitech Grunge would probably do the job, but their Distortion Factory will do this and Metallica as well).
 You seem to have a strange view of the effect of pickups in terms of heaviness. I'm sure no-one has ever said "lack of power" and "nailbomb" in the same sentence before. Many, many players get fantastic distorted tones from relatively low powered pickups.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 27, 2006, 08:07:25 PM
It makes my amp sound monsterous, i don't know why line 6 has such a bad name, unless that pedal is an exception.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 28, 2006, 04:50:59 PM
Ok i think i've changed my mind again, and i think i will listen to you guys lol I'm thinking about a Mircale Man in the bridge, and if i wasn't going to get a calibrated set of anything then i was always going to go with a Cold Sweat in the neck. Also it's much cheaper and i think it will suit my playing style a lot better. (cheaper depends on what covers i go for)
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 28, 2006, 07:09:17 PM
Quote from: Sifu Ben
Yes, I listened to Kalmah, hence my comments. They're speed metal rather than thrash, and they're not really that heavy. Certainly more at the Megadeth and Anthrax end of the scale rather than the Slayer and Metallica end. The sound actually has quite a lot of mid in it (to me the tone screams George Lynch), and there's not that much saturated distortion. I'd say Holydivers would do this with ease. If your amp isn't up to it there are numerous inexpensive pedals that will take you into this realm with ease (again, you don't even need it to be that powerful, something like a Digitech Grunge would probably do the job, but their Distortion Factory will do this and Metallica as well).
 You seem to have a strange view of the effect of pickups in terms of heaviness. I'm sure no-one has ever said "lack of power" and "nailbomb" in the same sentence before. Many, many players get fantastic distorted tones from relatively low powered pickups.


Thanks Mr. Ben, you have educated me a lot in pickups and tone!
Title: What pickups...
Post by: fps_dean on May 29, 2006, 07:07:26 AM
Quote from: Sifu Ben
Hhmm, some quite different sounds really. I'd imagine Miracle Mans would give you the sort of Metallica and Slayer sounds (as both use EMGs, and prior to that Metallica used extra hot ceramic PUPs). Mustaine has a much less saturated sound, and a Holydiver or Rebel Yell would probably be better.

I'd think Holydivers, Crawlers or Nailbombs for a Megadeth like tone.  A louder Alnico V for the bridge (remember, Mustaine used the JB for many years).  A Riff Raff or VHII would be a good neck choice.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: fps_dean on May 29, 2006, 07:29:53 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Joe
Forget that list for a second, if some people could listen to a Melodic-Death band called Kalmah and listen to songs off the album 'They Will Return' thats the kind of bridge and neck tone i would like, on that album they used standard Jackson pickups in their jackson soloist guitars i beleive.


I'd definitely go with an Alnico V for more mids if that's the tone you like.  I agree with Sifu ben that they are more speed metal - like Megadeth style and sound in many ways and you can tell their guitarist is influenced by Marty Friedman's work with Megadeth.

Like I said, Holydivers or Nailbombs if you require something louder.  With today's high gain amps though, you can get killer heavy sounds with almost any pickup too, so you should look more on the overall tone of the pickup as opposed to its output.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 29, 2006, 01:36:11 PM
Are there any sound clips of people doing metal with Holydivers??
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Ced777 on May 29, 2006, 06:25:20 PM
I would say Rebell Yell for copying that Mustaine tone.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: fps_dean on May 30, 2006, 06:17:54 AM
Quote from: Ced777
I would say Rebell Yell for copying that Mustaine tone.

Mustaine used the JB though.  It's one of the loudest A5 magnet pups and definitely the muddiest and dullest sounding I've ever heard until you turn your gain up to 20.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: Ced777 on May 30, 2006, 06:13:38 PM
I know. I owned both a JB and a Rebell Yell.
Title: What pickups...
Post by: fps_dean on May 30, 2006, 07:04:10 PM
Quote from: Ced777
I know. I owned both a JB and a Rebell Yell.


I'm still waiting for mine...  but how does the Rebel Yell compare with Crawlers?  The sound clips for the Crawlers sound great, I assume they were in a strat.  Possible future upgrade for my Carvin ;)