Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: hunter on May 29, 2006, 04:17:54 PM

Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: hunter on May 29, 2006, 04:17:54 PM
OK, so assumption is: everyone wants a Bogner. But which one?

Listen to the sound samples and judge:
http://www.bogneramplification.com/MP3.htm
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Davey on May 29, 2006, 04:30:57 PM
none =/
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on May 29, 2006, 04:41:25 PM
None. They're terrible! :roll:
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: steve on May 29, 2006, 04:45:04 PM
Yeah, ive never really been a fan either.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: hunter on May 29, 2006, 04:55:14 PM
OK, if they would be the only amps in the world, which one would you take then?
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: indysmith on May 29, 2006, 04:59:14 PM
why don't yu guys like the bogners? collectively they seem to cover all bases of...music, VERY well. Hmm; anyways, i went for the el34 shiva
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Crazy_Joe on May 29, 2006, 04:59:57 PM
What's a bogner lol
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: indysmith on May 29, 2006, 05:01:55 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Joe
What's a bogner lol

uhhh - pretty big [but expensive] amp company...
check the site yu uncultured heathen
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: _tom_ on May 29, 2006, 05:13:03 PM
I also thought they sounded a bit shite, give me a Marshall 1987 anyday  :harp:
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Searcher on May 29, 2006, 05:16:48 PM
I went for the Ecstasy Classic EL34.  I've never actually played through a Bogner amp myself, though.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: genocidal tendencies on May 29, 2006, 07:29:44 PM
I went for the uberschall, because the metal sounds that thing can produce are insane. I'd love a metropolis, though. Hell, they're all obscenely good.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: hunter on May 29, 2006, 08:20:30 PM
Metropilis = well chosen (my choice)
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Davey on May 29, 2006, 08:37:13 PM
Quote from: indysmith
why don't yu guys like the bogners? collectively they seem to cover all bases of...music, VERY well. Hmm; anyways, i went for the el34 shiva

1st of all, the clips on their page suck so much, i cant begin to tell you how much.


second.. i just dont feel the vibe. thought i havent played one.


and third. you can get a splawn for much cheaper ;)

i'd got for a matamp LX though... after i win the lottery
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: aisuru on May 29, 2006, 08:41:21 PM
i agree with Davey on this one.

notice how one of those clips is named 'ShiET01.mp3'? i mean, if that's the manufacturer saying that, it must be bad!  :lol:

i want the Matamp
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: hunter on May 29, 2006, 08:47:51 PM
Well, that's all great and so. Roccaforte, Cornell, etc, all nice.

But where are the clips? At least the Bogner guys make the effort. And I can tellyou, those Boutique amps aren't always easy to find for a live check, especially not here in continental Europe.

So all you Matamps, Cornfords, Cornells whatever: What about some MP3s so people can get an idea of your range of products to be able to make a preselection?
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Davey on May 29, 2006, 09:46:33 PM
i'm sorry to burst your bubble, but unless you are able to playtest them, you wont be able to hear shite from an mp3.
recordings can be made to sound so diferent with just a touch of post production...

or just by the mic they've used. it will also differ from the speaker system you or i are using.

and the basic tone you can hear from an mp3 is even less than a thorough description of the amp.
i dont believe in product sample mp3's because very rarely they show the full potential of the product. only a crude sample of the tone it can deliver.



i'll discuss this further tomorrow if anybody wants to, i'm goin to bed now
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: chrisola on May 30, 2006, 12:34:10 AM
i was gonna choose  'Bognor Regis' but couldnt see i on the list :(
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: dasfonzie on May 30, 2006, 03:45:52 AM
Shiva EL34 *droool*
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: fps_dean on May 30, 2006, 06:06:04 AM
Quote from: TwilightOdyssey
None. They're terrible! :roll:


I don't think they're terrible but I think they are overpriced.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Neemo on May 30, 2006, 08:45:41 AM
they are a bit pricy but the quality is superb
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: cnotold on May 30, 2006, 01:39:48 PM
i don't understand ppl who says bogner is shitee. u probably heard the samples off the web page, but hey, u can't really judge sound of an amp with a clip. depands on different settings, guitars u play with it all sounds vary. i mean even he same pick up sounds different with different guitar therefore, sound clip doesn;t justify at all, period, ie, hear nailbomb clips from the players section? hell, some sounding thin as hell, when some sounds full and round.

as for my experience, bogner is a very unique amp. no matter how much racks(delay, reverb etc etc) u apply to it, the amp doesn't wash away. it punches the note right in your face. <- i don;t know whether thats the best way of putting it. yes there are a lot of companies with great products and sometimes it almost feels like big names tends to sell more than minors even though big names don;t sound as good.

people seldom say mesa dual recti is an awesome amp to play. yes, great sounding amp but i don't dig it. i guess it's all down to personal tatste, but hey bogner is a good amp.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on May 30, 2006, 02:08:34 PM
Quote from: cnotold
people seldom say mesa dual recti is an awesome amp to play. yes, great sounding amp but i don't dig it. i guess it's all down to personal tatste, but hey bogner is a good amp.

I thought the whole point of this thread is to state our personal feelings about Bogners ....
Anywho, I've played most Bogner amps (not all of em, I don't think), as well as just about every other mass market & boutique amp out there, so my frame of reference is solid.

Hence, they're terrible!! Mwahahahaha!!!

(ps. Mesa amps are terrible, too)
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: willo on May 30, 2006, 02:10:16 PM
They have a Bogner Ecstasy in the local music shop up here. I saw it today, was tempted to try it but these kinda amps just generally seem to have too much gain for my tastes.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on May 30, 2006, 02:12:02 PM
Quote from: willo
They have a Bogner Ecstasy in the local music shop up here. I saw it today, was tempted to try it but these kinda amps just generally seem to have too much gain for my tastes.

Wimp. ;)

You should have still tried it, willo. Nothing can replace 1st hand experience, even if you don't like it much, it's just another bit of information to add to the data base.

However, if the amp wasn't turned on, it's not fair to evaluate a valve amp right after you power it up. It should play for 20 minutes or so before you make any judgement calls.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: willo on May 30, 2006, 02:24:09 PM
Quote from: TwilightOdyssey
Quote from: willo
They have a Bogner Ecstasy in the local music shop up here. I saw it today, was tempted to try it but these kinda amps just generally seem to have too much gain for my tastes.

Wimp. ;)

You should have still tried it, willo. Nothing can replace 1st hand experience, even if you don't like it much, it's just another bit of information to add to the data base.

However, if the amp wasn't turned on, it's not fair to evaluate a valve amp right after you power it up. It should play for 20 minutes or so before you make any judgement calls.


True, but I didn't think the shop was gonna let a shambolic student mess around on a Bogner half stack for half an hour whilst the rest of the shop was full of customers! :D
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: hunter on May 30, 2006, 03:19:04 PM
Well, I didn't value them too highly too, unless I heard this guy play one at the weekend - I was in a different room, but yet the punch and inyafaceness of the sound was audible. I was really impressed by how great it sounded and had a look at the other models.

I agree with the Recto comments. To me those amps have one usable sound, that I would have fun with in 4% of my playing situations. For the rest I think they're cold and thin. But again, personal taste.

I love Soldano and if I was to play metal, I would make my sound with Soldano's rather than Rectos. After the weekend I am thinking of a Soldano combined with a Bogner for "all the other" sounds :)
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: dave_mc on May 30, 2006, 04:37:27 PM
Quote from: TwilightOdyssey
Quote from: willo
They have a Bogner Ecstasy in the local music shop up here. I saw it today, was tempted to try it but these kinda amps just generally seem to have too much gain for my tastes.

Wimp. ;)

You should have still tried it, willo. Nothing can replace 1st hand experience, even if you don't like it much, it's just another bit of information to add to the data base.

However, if the amp wasn't turned on, it's not fair to evaluate a valve amp right after you power it up. It should play for 20 minutes or so before you make any judgement calls.


hahaha!

but yeah, i agree ben. I've been almost trying out amps that I KNOW don't really suit my style of music for quite a while now- just to see. As you say, at worst, they'll confirm your suspicions, and it's a little more info to add to the database, so you can maybe give your two cents to someone else who's after that amp some other time.

And at best, you might decide that you want to play country from now on or something...


 :lol:

:drink:

And I haven't tried any bogners. I haven't seen one in the flesh, anywhere, ever, unfortunately.

:(
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: fps_dean on May 30, 2006, 06:25:53 PM
Quote from: cnotold
i don't understand ppl who says bogner is shitee.


Because the price tag.  For the same amount of money I can buy two or three Metaltronix heads on ebay or old handwired Marshalls from back in the day, so...

I wouldn't say they're shite but I will say they are overpriced.

Many amp techs have also told me that their quality is no better than today's Marshalls to boot but only their price tag is about double.

As for the website clips: Some of the website sound clips are pretty good, but some of them I wouldn't ever put on my website if I made amps because they will give your amps a bad name.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: fps_dean on May 30, 2006, 06:46:12 PM
Quote from: Davey
i'm sorry to burst your bubble, but unless you are able to playtest them, you wont be able to hear shitee from an mp3.
recordings can be made to sound so diferent with just a touch of post production...


This is only half true.  You should be able to have a damn good idea of what an amp sounds like from a properly recorded mp3 with no post-production tweaking.  But they may be using some outrageously loud and harsh pickup like a dimebucker and using all the wrong amp settings when they make a recording, and micing the amp in exactly the wrong way. And of course it's also someone else playing it too...

I heard someone playing a Taylor acoustic.  I mention that it sounded great and that's exactly the sound that I want, and he let me play it, but when I played it it sounded like ass.  But when he played it, it sounded great.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Davey on May 30, 2006, 07:19:44 PM
Quote from: fps_dean


This is only half true.  You should be able to have a damn good idea of what an amp sounds like from a properly recorded mp3 with no post-production tweaking.  But they may be using some outrageously loud and harsh pickup like a dimebucker and using all the wrong amp settings when they make a recording, and micing the amp in exactly the wrong way. And of course it's also someone else playing it too...


my point exactly.

you dont get the whole deal. sure, it WILL give you an idea, but unless you've got hands on experience, you might be dissapointed. with amps this is much more important than pickups

during my meager days of recording (even the little i did) was found out how everything affects the outcome.
one thing is to show what the amp can do and go to the extreme of its ability.

take the soundsamples on rocksolidamps .. i was very interested in the ENGL thunder, but once i went through their selection of clips i was back at the beginning. on some it sounded godly, on others it sounded like pure cr@p, and since i couldnt get my hands on it to see for myself, i opted to save my money for a laney gh50.

there are clips that show you a fair bit of the products potential. if done properly they are very informative and can lead you into that direction, but most of the clips i heard dont do that.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: maliciousteve on May 30, 2006, 07:32:55 PM
Out of all those clips i liked the Uberschall best.
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: fps_dean on May 30, 2006, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: Davey
you dont get the whole deal. sure, it WILL give you an idea, but unless you've got hands on experience, you might be dissapointed. with amps this is much more important than pickups


This is true...

When I was looking to upgrade my cabinet from those G12M-75 speakers that give Celestion a bad name, I bought Classic Leads over V30s which I was familiar with and do like but I was shooting for something higher wattage and cleaner at the speakers, and they're definitely the best with my Marshall heads.

When I bought the Rebel Yells, I bought based on the clip.  I hear good harmonics and good midrange and decent output and no mud.  Sounds good to me ;)

I've never bought an amp for over $150usd without at least playing the same model first and knowing what it sounds like (I did buy two amps from ebay so I couldn't really play them first, but I knew what they were and would sound like properly biased).
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Badcard on January 01, 2007, 09:13:17 PM
I agree with what you guys say on the fact that you NEED to try amps before making a judgment.
MP3s can help you make the selection of amps you'd like to try, but that's it.
Having said that I tried the Metropolis, and I absolutely LOVE this amp.
For classic rock, hard rock and blues, it kills!!
Don't think it would be very good for metal, but that's not my style anyway.
You have to push a tube amp to get the "juice", and the 15W version is just perfect for that.
More than loud enough to play with a drummer in small clubs unless you're looking for super clean tones.
Incredibly versatile... did I say that I loved this amp?   :P
Yes, the problem is they are pricey.
Maybe you'll be lucky enough to find one second hand, but I reckon you won't find many owner wanting to sell this baby.
But remember this as a general rule : A 500$ guitar played in a 2000$ amp will ALWAYS sound much better than a 2000$ guitar played in a 500$ amp...
Electric guitar is all about the amp guys, just find the one for YOU and take a mortgage!!  :lol:
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: sambo on January 01, 2007, 09:56:06 PM
Quote from: TwilightOdyssey
Quote from: cnotold
people seldom say mesa dual recti is an awesome amp to play. yes, great sounding amp but i don't dig it. i guess it's all down to personal tatste, but hey bogner is a good amp.

I thought the whole point of this thread is to state our personal feelings about Bogners ....
Anywho, I've played most Bogner amps (not all of em, I don't think), as well as just about every other mass market & boutique amp out there, so my frame of reference is solid.

Hence, they're terrible!! Mwahahahaha!!!

(ps. Mesa amps are terrible, too)


seeing as we're going through amps we don't like.... splawn amps are terrible.
Title: Re: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Antag on January 01, 2007, 10:06:29 PM
Quote from: hunter
OK, so assumption is: everyone wants a Bogner. But which one?


It's a big assumption but if it was going cheap (or free :)) I'd jump at the chance to own an Uberschall - it wouldn't be my first choice of amp to own, but it would be my first choice Bogner....
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: JJretroTONEGOD on January 02, 2007, 01:34:50 AM
The Duende 15 watter is my favourite one! by far in terms of tone. That's my kind of amp tone, I like the little fat sounding ones.

as what has been said about mp3s I agree 100%. I don't think mp3s are a good way to listen to samples at all, maybe I have sensitive ears but it makes the 'pure' sound, sound grainy and rough. You need a very high quality mp3 decoder for samples to actually be as good quality as a WAV file. Not many people actually use technology intelligently enough, there are so many formats to save an audio clip in! why not opt for the very best quality? I've never understood it.

 PDT_031
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: Tricalibur on January 02, 2007, 05:56:56 AM
Quote from: hunter
Well, that's all great and so. Roccaforte, Cornell, etc, all nice.

But where are the clips? At least the Bogner guys make the effort. And I can tellyou, those Boutique amps aren't always easy to find for a live check, especially not here in continental Europe.

So all you Matamps, Cornfords, Cornells whatever: What about some MP3s so people can get an idea of your range of products to be able to make a preselection?

Nothing compares to playing an amp in person though I dont think. I would nevre spill 2 grand on an amp Ive only heard soundclips of. It just doesnt give an accurate presentation of what an amp is capable of, no matter the quality. Unless your after the exact recorded sound you hear in a demo I don think Its wise to buy based on ausio samples. Of course thats just me and its kind of off-topic but whatever  :D .
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: JamesHealey on January 02, 2007, 09:34:42 AM
I'm quite a fan of the Ecstasy 101B, but i'd much rather have a Cornford, Splawn, Roccaforte or Mojave...
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: hunter on January 04, 2007, 04:48:42 PM
Quote from: Tricalibur
Nothing compares to playing an amp in person though I dont think. I would nevre spill 2 grand on an amp Ive only heard soundclips of. It just doesnt give an accurate presentation of what an amp is capable of, no matter the quality. Unless your after the exact recorded sound you hear in a demo I don think Its wise to buy based on ausio samples. Of course thats just me and its kind of off-topic but whatever  :D .


Agree with you 100%. I would never do that either. It's actually the reason I wouldn't buy a Peters, Splawn etc as they cannot be tested around here. Completely happy with my Shiva, which I tested against many other amps. Still gasing for some others though, you can never have enough amps :)
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: JamesHealey on January 04, 2007, 06:04:03 PM
y'see now i've had to put a lot of trust into scott at splawn and still yea its a lot of money to drop on an amp i've not tested, but based on clips, descriptions and multiple reviews it deffinatly seems like the amp for me.

It'll be shipped next week and i'll tell you if it's what i wanted it to be :)
Title: Which Bogner do YOU want ?
Post by: dave_mc on January 04, 2007, 09:37:45 PM
I'm undecided about whether to fork out on something you haven't tried. I did that on my engl, but then I'd tried a fair swathe of the other models available, and pretty much liked them all.

Dunno about the splawn, I'm kinda gassing over one myself... the soundclips (and everything I hear about them) sound like exactly what I'm after to satisfy my 80's leanings...

I've also bought a boss NS2 over a decimator before, mainly because I couldn't try the decimator. Needless to say, the Decimator ended up being ordered anyway, and I'm glad I did.

I guess you need to take it on a case-by-case basis. If the only amp you could try close to you was, say, a £40 practice amp, are you saying that that person shouldn't order a decent amp as they couldn't try it?