Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Petre on July 06, 2006, 04:27:41 PM
-
Ok, so as many of you know i settled on the ashdown fallen angel as my next amp. I been saving and all and i accumulated 300 so far. anyway i was browsing the internet and came across a shop 30 mins drive away from me, who stocked the ashdowns, at half RRp (so £299) because they were ex-demo at ashdowns wall of sound exhibition. So, overjoyed i asked my dad if he could give me a lift to try before i buy next week sometime. Anyhow next thing i know were actually going today. so anyway, i arrive at the shop... and first try out the 40 watt FA with the DSP effects...
$%&#ING EUGH! Pure cr@p. Made me feel sick how muddy it was and how little gain it had. Its like those times you get a new guitar, go to play and it sounds horrible toneless.... only to find out the tone knob is turned allthe way down. I checked everything... full tone on guitar, on amp, gain cranked etc. It wasnt cracked that much but it was un-useable. Made my marshall MG15 with my uber metal seem godlike in tone. There was no punch at all, and no clarity. I am highly suspecting by this point that its the tubes. Anyway, as i heard in alot of reviews, you need the boost on for it to sound good. So wacked on the pedal and hey presto, still shite. So i try the other angle of sticking an OD pedal infront of it. The guy only had a BOSS OD pedal of some sort, but this in fact made it fizz at half drive (on pedal), and even muddier and shitetier on full drive. So anyway i even wind down bass and mids to 0 and treble at max and still no punch or clarity. So, convinced its the tubes i tried the 60 watt...
Same $%&#ing thing! Only slightly worse, and if the reverb or effects were on it would make a weird whirring noise. Anyway, very disappointed i left with my dad to "think it over". Didnt knwo whether to make the purchase or not. I mean if it was valves, it was still a great price if i had to swap in new valves... but then what if it wasnt...
Anyway i went back and tried it against some other amps, and with a better guitar. (the first guitar was a cheapo jackson RR something with some weird generic jackson covered stock pups. The new guitar helped a little, but still very very poor. I compared against a peavey valveking, and while the valveking still sounded $%&#ing awful, it had more punch and clarity than the ashdown.
I decided to leave it, and came home..
So here i am. Does it sound like <somehow> both the ashdowns had pwned valves? The guys in the shop werent overly clued up on any of the items they were selling, so i think its possible they may have done something to them.
Just so $%&#ing disappointed. Theres alot i need to get and save for. I really didnt want to have to save another shite-loada money ontop of what i have for an engl screamer or fireball (lovely tho it would be).
Thanks for input
Petre
p.s. Are the ENGL's realy as cube-shaped as they look? :P
-
IIRC, the original Ashdowns were designed by a well known (and very good) amp manufacturer. Ashdown subsequently cheaped out on all the parts, dunno if they changed the circuit layout to make the amp more affordable.
-
Are the ENGL's realy as cube-shaped as they look? :P
Huh?!
-
but this was inexcusably terrible. Something had to be horribly wrong... either that or its one of the worst amps i have ever played, and far from what everyone has said about it. Tight bottom end? no. nice crunch? not at all. Almost enough gain? pathetic amounts.
-
Sounds like a bummer if you had your heart set on it. Never mind, you will be able to pick up something much better than what you described for the same or a little more money. Just have a good trawl though HC and then try out some more amps. Take your own guitar for the tests too!
-
:D Always disapointing when that happens. :twisted:
You set your heart on something & it turns out its cr@p !!
But look on the bright side. You didn`t spend £300 on it to find it was shitee Lesson to learn = Try before you buy. :wink:
:D 8)
-
Look for B52. They really have tight bottom end and nice evil pounding crunch. And the 100watt combo is $750-$800USD. The 100 watt head version is usually between $600 and $700, and the cabs are like $350. The cabs have huge bottom end. HUGE.
-
p.s. Are the ENGL's realy as cube-shaped as they look?
I never thought they looked cube shaped...but to answer your question, no (not the screamer anyway...) The cab area next to the control panel is angled forwards to relieve it of boxyness
I may have pictures actually...*hunts for them*
-
sounds like my LC15R
wait a couple of weeks (this is starting to sound real generic) and i'll give ya a full review on a Laney GH50L it's around 620 euros, so not THAT far from what you have at the moment (though it is a head, not a combo)
-
Are the ENGL's realy as cube-shaped as they look? :P
Huh?!
frinkahedron-shaped... and the answer is "maybe". The screamer is pretty small/square.
er... anyway, the ashdown was pretty bass heavy when I tried it. The words muddy do come to mind. It had quite a bit of gain, but probably not mega-high gain. Dunno if it was as bad as you said, I'd have needed to be there. Did you try channel 1 with the gain up pretty high? it sounded pretty decent. More a rock tone, though.
I wouldn't buy it if you didn't like it, though. Or at least before getting to try another one, just in case it was the tubes.
In an unrelated matter, I drove 30 miles to a music shop today only to find it was closed on thursdays. Pwnt. Luckily another shop in the vicinity (oh all right then, it was only 10 miles away, I drove 40 miles for nothing) was open, and had some good stuff I got to try.
-
comb ebay for an ENGL Thunder combo.. i've seen them for £385...
to be honest something like an older Marshall Valvestate 8080 series combo would be great.
Metal bands like Death, AT The Gates and many others around the early 90's swore by them... they go cheap, do ultra mental gain, and 'normal' type gain.
It does sound like both ashdowns were fecked... mine was ex demo but with my SD-1 it sounded semi good, and shite loads of bass, its was very 'chunky'
Other options? Line6 Spider 2 or a 2nd hand Flextone
Randall amps are good in that price range, if you can find one to try.
Basically matey, take your guitar into somewhere and test EVERY amp they have in your budget, and even ones above (that you could realisticly save for).. you never know what you might like.. everyone likes different tones and characters.
good luck again :)
-
If you try the B-52 next to a Ashdown you will be amazed. The B-52 will eat it alive D:
-
Yes i think ebay is best bet for a good deal, and davey the gh50l was my next choice... just a little concerned about volumes and such :roll: . ENGL screamer is also another choice, but both these options are a bit steep price-wise considering id need a half decent cab too (whats the cheapest you can get a pretty good cab for??)
In an unrelated matter, I drove 30 miles to a music shop today only to find it was closed on thursdays. Pwnt.
lol! thoroughly :lol:
and yea black fire ill look into that B52. Its defiantely arousing my interest so far!
Im still leaning otwards the fact it was the tubes. Coz when i tried to push it with an OD it just fizzed and got muddier. Anyhow, either way build quality wasnt impressive, and if alot of the muddiness was removed im still not sure im so keen on the voicing. Im after real good clarity, but the ability to dial in a loada bass to really grind away.
And about the ENGL combos. sorry! i didnt mean a perfect cube lol, just it seemed alot wider (from back to front) than other combos.
Anyway, big question. Couldnt i get a rack pre-amp and poweramp and then just feed that into a cab? I havent dabbled with racks or pre-amps or the such, but it looks very interesting!. If somebody could write a brief guide as to what you need and the pros/cons (or if ive missed the point completely!).
Thanks guys
Petre
-
And about the ENGL combos. sorry! i didnt mean a perfect cube lol, just it seemed alot wider (from back to front) than other combos.
Can't say I ever noticed it...It is quite big, but so are most combo (aren't they?)
I have to say, it's the most well built thing I've ever seen - It'd probably still work if my house fell down on top of it...
-
if you want to save a little cash, you could always get the screamer combo- but you're still talking about £800 inc. footswitch, or about £700 without...
-
There is an art to using a drive pedal to boost a dirty amp, and the risk is that it can make it really muddy. You actually need less gain than you think on the pedal. Lots of people really complained about the MXR ZW overdrive when it came out, until they realised that Zakk essentially uses it as a fairly clean boost pedal.
As for the amp, I don't know. My Ashdown is one of the original ones and A) has tons of gain, B) has really good low end and C) has a really clear tone. I must say though, it is at it's best when you tune down to C#, and my guitars have pretty hot bridge pickups set pretty high. Unless you try another Ashdown somewhere else you're not going to know if it's the valves or not, although pretty much any Asian made amp would probably benefit greatly from some decent tubes.
-
Yes i think ebay is best bet for a good deal, and davey the gh50l was my next choice... just a little concerned about volumes and such :roll: . ENGL screamer is also another choice, but both these options are a bit steep price-wise considering id need a half decent cab too (whats the cheapest you can get a pretty good cab for??)
The GH50L sounds pretty good at reasonable levels if that's what you're worried - I use mine like that at home while practising. You could get a Marshall 2x12 for around £120 on eBay I reckon.
-
i tried the gh50l through a full stack at LGS and it sounded awesome even at a very low volume.... though my perception at that time might have been seriously f00ked. i got it till like 4, then i had to step a bit further back lol .. i dont know till what number i got the highest, but it was at around 3/4 .. then the laney dude politely asked me to turn it down since it got to the quiet period, so i went away with a shite eating grin haha.
i did start at a little above 1 though. it doesnt have that fander type volume control, where it's nondistinguishable at one moment and super $%&#in loud at the other. it's pretty "linear" (i should rather say exponential, but that'd just confuse people lol)
so, all in all, that head rocked the whole volume spectrum
-
i should rather say exponential, but that'd just confuse people lol
Not me, I've been doing exponentials in Chemistry, Physics AND Maths lately...
-
If its METAL you want, my opinion on the subject is clear (see avator). I use an MXR KFK EQ in the loop of my Randall Titan head and its an evil sounding combination. If I want more dirt I kick in the SD-1 I modded and it does mega-filth gain. I paid £260 for my Titan head and £60 for the KFK EQ.
:twisted:
-
hmm, some very interesting amp suggestions coming out of the closet now! The B-52 looks real ideal but i cant find anywhere to get it at all! And the Randall titan looks very tempting, even though its solid state.
Just a quick question about cabs. Do speakers make such a huge impact on sound to warrant me saving and getting the 2x12 ENGL cab with vintage 30's? I can get them for a little over 300 and i thoguht would be ideal for bedroom volumes as well as taking up less room (my room is small). Its a bit more than i was planning for a cab but i heard vintage 30's were tasty. Is it worth it? even thoguh i could be sticking a solid state amp ontop such as the randall titan in the meantime?
cheers
Petre
-
TBH, The speaker may make a bit of a difference to the tone - but if you have a decent amp then you won't be disappointed with slightly cheaper speakers...
Also, my Screamer combo sounds immense with its stock speaker (one of the G-somethings? G-12 maybe...but that could be wrong). Admittedly, it might well be drastically improved with a better speaker, but considering the price, I'm not disatisfied with the tone enough to warrant the money
I also do not regret getting a 2x12 as I was originally looking at - but it is plenty loud, and can fill a room on its own. At some stage, I may get another 1x12, so that I can position one on either side of the stage and get better spread - but 2 speakers next to each other is overkill to my mind :P
-
Engl-2x12-bedroom level= forget it.
That is for any good (ENGL) distortion.
I LOVE my ENGL half stack but it is in a (pretty empty) 30x25 room and past second notch on the head is WOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
is there any sort of 2x12 cab that would be playable at bedroom levels with a solid state head?
Coz im back to square one on the budget thing, as i was tempted to get a good quality 2x12 stack and stick a solid state head on top, then later down the line grab a real nice all tube head to stick on it... as opposed to getting a pretty good combo now... but then when im off to uni and/or get a credit card (eek.. yes i know my family has had words.. but im so tempted) have to fork out for a real real TASTY head and then have to fork out for the cab at the same time. Id rather upgrade at a steadier pace... .. reading back that doesnt make a huge amount of sense but im sure some of you will get where im coming from!
anyway!
The ENGL grabbed my eye coz its almost the size of a half stack and stands upright. I dont enjoy the idea of bending all the way down to change settings lol. Im sorry but i am kinda a poser and i just think the upright 2x12 cabs look nicer than having a head with a really wide low cab on the floor :oops:
Plus i thoguht a small cab like that would be ideal coz it has good speakers and is also like 120 watt so i thought it wouldnt go toooo loud.
But yea, keep the 2x12 suggestions coming!
Cheers
Petre
EDIT - Oh dakine, i mean having a head ontop that isnt ENGL. Like the randall titan as HTH suggested. coz i thought solid states sounded the same at almost all volumes. at least my marshall MG i can have on tiny amounts of volume and put my ear close and it still sounds reasonable just like at wasp volumes.
-
TBH, The speaker may make a bit of a difference to the tone - but if you have a decent amp then you won't be disappointed with slightly cheaper speakers...
Also, my Screamer combo sounds immense with its stock speaker (one of the G-somethings? G-12 maybe...but that could be wrong). Admittedly, it might well be drastically improved with a better speaker, but considering the price, I'm not disatisfied with the tone enough to warrant the money
I also do not regret getting a 2x12 as I was originally looking at - but it is plenty loud, and can fill a room on its own. At some stage, I may get another 1x12, so that I can position one on either side of the stage and get better spread - but 2 speakers next to each other is overkill to my mind :P
i think your screamer has celestion 70/80's (at least that's what the specs said)
The new screamer has a vintage 30, again according to the engl specs on their site.
-
Ok, so i actually went and looked at it and it said "V12-80"...dunno what that means, but it sounds really good :)
If the new ones are V30's though, then the combo would prolly do you Petre - the 1x12 is great, 2x12 isn't immensely necessary, and it has the same speakers
-
^ yeah, you just want to make sure you're getting one of the new ones with the vintage 30's, and not an NOS one with the old speakers...
-
I would just get a 4x12 and be done with it for that bass end you need for metal (2x12s are for pussies, heh) :wink: :lol:
The Titan is an awesome amp. I went to solid state amps for metal because they just sounded best for the tone I'm going for (not for financial reasons).
The Titan can also be silly-loud (and I'm used to gigging with LOUD amps like 100w plexis).
:twisted:
-
well... if i'd go for a 2x12, i'd get one with ports.
and a big ass cab (same internal volume as a 4x12)
that helps immensly for that huge low end.
but unfortunately, they are expencive
-
One with ports davey? explain pls :oops: . and the ENGL does have a big cab. Its only a tiny bit thinner than a 4x12.
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_engl_e212v_gitarrenbox_prodinfo.html
For the same price or quite a bit less i could just get a marshall 4 x 12, but just concerned about volumes. Considering id be using a solid state, the volume goes up linear ? and sounds the same at all volumes?
Thanks
Petre
oh and guys im really not talking about sticking an engl head ontop of it... yet
-
4x12 IMO can get 'muddy' and therefore NON pussies use 2x12 for metal :twisted:
-
awesome, sounds like the 2x12 is what im after then. As long as it has a decent low end ill be happy. i do love chugging, but i also love my clarity.
So, most important question is if i use a solid state head, will a 2x12 still be all good to use at bedroom volumes and such?
Thanks
Petre
-
Heres the prob,as I see it.
Any amp over a certain wattage is NOT gonna be ANY good at bedroom levels. They are ALL voiced for gigging. Esp. stacks (heads cabs).
This has been discussed ad nauseium and really NO def. answer.
Sure Matamp and Zvex make very small watt valve heads and you can get modelling amps etc. but truly best way for bedroom practice is a modellor like a pod or summit.
A stack for bedroom playing is abit like buying a Ferrari for getting the weekly shop and nothing else.
NOT trying to be a pain or anything, just think you are looking at the wrong stuff. YES SS will retain more tone through vol. range, but still, stack for bedroom? Don't gel my man.
-
How much is it gonna cost you for a solid state head? 'cause to my mind you would still be better off getting the screamer combo...On that Thomann site you linked to, it's only £300 more expensive than the cab you listed
Maybe it's just me, but I would always rather the screamer, but maybe that's just how we differ :drink:
EDIT: I agree completely Mr Nick...but would you agree that the screamer combo sounds decent at low volumes on all but channel 4? We must make him buy one too :)
-
I ADORE my screamer.
And YES it is soooooooooo musical.
But, have to be honest, if ya wanna go AGGGHHHH (kill cats at 100 paces) ya gotta work the valves (ala all valve amps) and that AINT bedroom friendly.
-
if you make a 4x12 muddy, you are using
a) wrong speakers
b) wrong amps
c) wrong guitars/pickups
d) EQ it completely wrong
e) it's an open back
ports;
it means it has two or more 2" holes in the front baffle, which work as bass reponse ports.. it's kinda like a cheap man speaker sim, but without a speaker (obviously) it adds a very tight bass response, and it gets better the higher you turn the volume on the amp.
check out earcandy cabs to see what i mean.
the inside volume of the cab plays a pretty big role too. it being the same size as a full 4x12, it gives a bigger sound, as more air gets moving on the inside (as far as i understand it)
having ports in it, you can see how a 2x12 can simulate a 4x12, without actualy being a big ass cab.
-
ANY speaker can sound muddy BTW. Dos'nt mean the plaer has NO idea what they are doing. Just some speakers are not as good as others, multiply that by 4 instead of 2, you do the math.
-
Whoa there, these ports have tighter bass reponce? Can I add these to my 2x12?
-
well for a start i practice a hell of a lot in my bedroom. While my neighbours are pretty cool with stuff, i dont wanna make their ears bleed. Thus solid state seemed a nice option. (i do practice alot at like 9 or 10 pm, so really do have to keep the volumes reasonable then). And i know i could get a screamer combo for the price of a 2x12 engl cab and SS head.. thepoint is is when i save up some more i can swap off the SS ehad for something real tasty like an ENGL powerball or Peavey 6505 or some sorta mesa.
This is so tough everyone recommends completely different things! I think i missed all the guitar shows didnt I ? Wulda been handy heading on down to one of those.
Cheers
Petre
-
well...
i dont know where you're getting this guys, but a 2x12 wont be that much louder than a single 12" .. it will move more air, so you'll percieve it as louder, but it can stay pretty damn quiet too. in fact, just as well as a 1x12 can
so if you're discouraged by a 2x12 cos you think you'll be too loud at the same settings, dont worry, you wont be at bedroom volume.
dakine, sorry, but you havent got any idea what you're talking about. the more speakers you add, the tighter the cab. if you're muddying things up, you should try EQing diferently, if that doesnt work, change the speakers. it's not "the more the muddier" if that was the case everybody'd be using a single speaker. cheap cabs tend to sound shitee though, whatever you do with it.
adding ports to it... well. yes and no. you could do it, but i dont guarantee that it will sound better. those cabs were designed with ports in mind, so they were basicaly constructed, to make them as efficient as possible
-
so davey, your all for the 2x12 cab idea?
so if you're discouraged by a 2x12 cos you think you'll be too loud at the same settings, dont worry, you wont be at bedroom volume.
am i reading this in thinking that either way i wont be playable at bedroom volumes, or did u mean either way i wont be too loud for bedroom volumes?
Coz yea the screamer idea is always there, getting the combo. But i like the idea of getting a kind of half stack which i can swap heads on. I think it would future proof my amp. i was also thinking that when i got a second head id have a backup too for gigging situations if a valve blew.. as id still have the SS. Is an SS head with a 2x12 cab really gonna be un-useable at bedroom volumes? Im not talking stickign a valve head ontop, or anything like that just yet.
Cheers again
Petre
-
I mean, yeah, the whole "future proofing" thing is a good idea...That's what my Screamer was for - I'm going to uni at the end of the next year, and I'm unlikely to have no money for the 4 years following that. So, between now and next October I'm trying to get the very best gear I can manage so that I'm not frustrated as much when I have no money :P
As far as I'm concerned, the Screamer is all I'll ever need...I know there are better amps about, but for the money I'm happy to stick with what I have. I may buy an extension cab for it at some point, but apart from that I think I'm fairly set there :)
My final request is that due to me having no money for the next 4 years, could Tim kindly not develop any more products to tempt me into spending money I don't have :drink: :lol:
-
i got a 2x12
it's great for bedroom practice. the width is the same than a 1x12 combo amp (it's upright) so it doesnt take that much space, can get loud, has a better sound projection and it can rumble the walls. it can also get quiet enough that my mother doent come knocking on the door every 30 seconds.
-
SWEET. That soudns very ideal! What head do you use with it?
and hey Deg thats very wise!! Im also doing somethign similar. Im off to Uni in about a year and a half. By then i hope to have a nice alf stack and a custom ran guitar by then so i can tear it up at uni and get rockin in some sorta band there. Altho, the way i look at things (and its a terrible way so i wouldnt follow suit) is that if your in stupid amounts of debt.. woudl the extra grand really make a huge impact on the credit card or debts in general? :roll: :lol: .. somethin to think about :lol:
Oh and davey, what 2x12 is it your using?
Thanks
Petre
-
no head at the moment.
i used it with my crate gx65. now sitting there waiting to be sold so i can buy a laney gh50l .. but the damn thing just doesnt want to unload!
the cab is homemade. idea is; saw a slanted 4x12 in half and enlarge it a bit.
made from 1" thick birch. though the dude that made it for me didnt follow my instructions and now the front baffle is all $%&#ed up.
it's got two 16 ohm V30's
-
Lol that's a very intriguing way to look at things...I may have to invest in a custom build before I go, but that's next year - for now I'm happy modding my strat :drink:
-
no head at the moment.
i used it with my crate gx65. now sitting there waiting to be sold so i can buy a laney gh50l .. but the damn thing just doesnt want to unload!
the cab is homemade. idea is; saw a slanted 4x12 in half and enlarge it a bit.
made from 1" thick birch. though the dude that made it for me didnt follow my instructions and now the front baffle is all $%&#ed up.
it's got two 16 ohm V30's
Sell it to Petre :drink:
-
it cost me the price of two speakers, nothing more cos i didnt pay the dude that built it. the front baffle is falling apart. i aint paying for that shoddy worksmanship.
the mounting plates, and plug, my father provided. i assembeled it and did the wireing, though i gotta redo that cos i used solid wire instead of fine wire.
be well guys.. i'm off to dream of great gear, chicks and parties!
-
I think its fairly settled ill go for an engl 2x12 and some sort of decent SS head then ;) .
Cheers all!
Petre
-
And it took 4 pages of discussion to gather that :lol: oh well, at least you now know what you're doing :)
-
oh but it was so much more! an epic journey and a learning experience for all :lol: . But nah seriosly its hard when everybody suggests different things and your caught in the middle of 'opinion crossfire'. And not to mention that i think this is the third topic ive created over indecisive amp issues :oops: .I hate the world of amps! I really am gonna be glad when ive just got an amp i love and enjoy and then i cna forget about all this nonsense! I know its your whole sound but ARG finding the right thing is such a pain in the arse (at least in my experience).
:cry: :cry:
Cheers :wink:
Petre
-
get an old marshall or an ENGL - foolproof plan since you'll definately be satisfied with ur tone :wink: 8)
-
money? :roll:
:lol:
Believe me if i had the cash id go straight for the engl.... and i kinda will have spent that much by the time i get a half stack but... thats where it all gets a little hazy
Cheers
Petre
-
ANY speaker can sound muddy BTW. Dos'nt mean the plaer has NO idea what they are doing. Just some speakers are not as good as others, multiply that by 4 instead of 2, you do the math.
That's why Goat invented Vintage 30s. ;) :lol:
Muttley
-
I hate the world of amps! I really am gonna be glad when ive just got an amp i love and enjoy and then i cna forget about all this nonsense! I know its your whole sound but ARG finding the right thing is such a pain in the arse (at least in my experience).
I know what you mean, I still want a new amp but I keep reading things about different amps and just get more and more gas for em :P Plus I have no money :cry: