Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Twinfan on July 19, 2006, 09:02:14 AM
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Hi folks - I'm after a bit of advice from you all if possible? As I've mentioned on this board before, I'm Angus Young in an AC/DC tribute band and my gear setup is:
'65 Epi SG with Riff Raffs => Laney GH50L => Marshall 2x12 with V30s
or
'65 Epi SG with Riff Raffs => Laney GH50L => Marshall 4x12 with G12T-75s
For rhythm and lead playing I do what Angus does - roll back the volume to 4ish and boost to 10 for solos. This works great at home and sounds perfect. However, when I rehearse with the rest of the band my rhythm parts sound great but when I boost for solos it just seems to get lost. I want my solos to really come through, but it's just not happening.
"Malcolm" uses a Yamaha SG and a Marshall MG50 transistor amp which really cuts though and I think this may be the cause of the problem. Do I need to get the treble removed from his tone? Or, unlike Angus, do I need to use a pedal to boost the mids?
Help????
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I would try a EQ pedal through your effects loop. You may even leave the EQ flat but just boost the output slightly to give that lift.
On my amp i have 2 master volumes which i set one higher than the other, the second is set higher for a solo boost. Using something like the Boss GE7 EQ pedal should have the same effect.
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Cheers Steve. I have an EQ pedal I can use, so I'll give that a try. I'm curious to know how Angus does it without any pedals, but I guess the sound engineer will adjust levels through the PA...
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Thats right, his sound would be raised through the main speaker and his monitors by his sound engineers. Its alright for some!
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I always find in a live environment that the guitar needs to have it's mids pushed. This can sound pretty harsh if you do it in your bedroom, but when playing with drums/bass/another guitar, it helps a lead guitar find it's space in the frequency spetrum. Worth a shot....just pump the mids to 8 or so and take a little off the treble maybe.
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hmm last point is interesting, i find my leads to be harsh sometimes (i play at home only).. must be because i set the mids too high?
Treble usually eased off aswell as the guitars tone control,but i still get a REALLY cutting tone!
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The relative volume going from 4 to 10 on your guitar isn't nearly the same as having a solo boost of some sort when in a band situation. At home, you can perceive the volume difference, but with a band, you will get more gain but not necessarily more volume.
As Steve pointed out, you can use an EQ through your FX loop, a clean boost through the FX loop, or use an amp with a seperate solo boost & volume control on it to simplify things. (I use the 3rd choice)
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Just EQ'ing the guitars right should get you sorted - pan the guitars hard left/right on an AC/DC album and listen to how different the tones are.
Angus should always be margainly louder too, thats the AC/DC 'mix'
:twisted:
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Cheers guys. I've had a little play at home tonight and tried a few things:
Clean boost up front
Clean boost in FX loop
EQ up front
EQ in FX loop
Maxon OD-9 up front
Maxon OD-9 in FX loop
Extra gain stage of GH50L
The best results to my ears, are an EQ in the FX loop with the sliders in a "^" shape. This pushes the mids and really fattens up the sound, plus the overall level pushes the volume up. I'll give this a try in rehearsal on Monday. The clean boost didn't really fatten the sound up much to cut through, and the others added too much gain.
Thanks for all your advice!
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It's encouraging to see someone putting in the time to get it right, and really experimenting with their gear, instead of just asking for sh!t's sake and never doing anything about it.
I'm also pleased to see that you're going to hash it out at rehearsal instead of bringing it to a gig and ... SUPRISE! May or may not be what you wanted!
A mid-boosty EQ thru the FX loop is a great option, and will probably work great at your next rehearsal!
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Cheers TO. I'm lucky in that I have a few bits of gear to try things out, but I wanted to see what the collective knowledge was to give me a bit of a head start. I think the mid-boost EQ or the clean boost are the way to go, so I'll try the mid boost first. I've got three rehearsals to get it right before our first paid gig...
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our first paid gig...
Paid? What is this 'paid' you speak of?! PDT_008
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Ha ha! We've done one freebie and we've got a pub gig for £250 on the 12th August. Result eh?
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Ha ha! We've done one freebie and we've got a pub gig for £250 on the 12th August. Result eh?
Wow, and then some!
I'm playing on the 12th for a handful of wooden buttons, if memory serves.
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get your distortion from the power amp, that way you can drive the rhythm tone with low gain and then blow it up with a tube screamer.
Also if you use the vol pot, bass will become less, if you dial in full speed, you might have too many low frequencies, which makes it muddy.
Rather reduce bass first than increase anything, and always try the least posssible gain if a present sound is required.
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Well thanks again to everyone for all the advice. I tried two things in rehearsal last night:
1) Clean boost in the FX loop
2) Mid-heavy boost in the FX loop
The clean boost gave the loudest volume increase, but boosted the bass and treble more than the mids. This makes sense as my rhythm tone has a slight mid scoop for an aggressive edge. The solo tone was then thin and spiky which just hurt my ears rather than cutting through the mix.
The EQ boost gave a great result with a slightly offset /\ shape. I cut the bass side a little more and kept the very high treble at 0. This really fattened up the sound and projected my solos really well. I only have 15dB boost available and ideally I could do with a little more, but I think I can get away with it for now.
So cheers guys - you're a mine of information!
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Hi TwinFan !
Just a simple observation from me, based on experimenting with a Telecaster Les Paul and S.G. straight into a 20w valve combo:
I was generaly messing around with my tone controls to further refine my own 'no pedal' tone.
I usually have all tone controls on full tilt, but was very surprised to find the treble really 'cut' better when the treble control was just 2 notches behind the mids, not equal or in front of.
I then tried it through the bigger gear ( including a Laney LH50R head through a Matamp cab with 4 x 12 GT 12-75s) and it still worked. 2 extra notches of amp mid + no pedal = result !
it was basically:
Bass = 8
Treble = 8
Mid = 10.
If I widened the gap further I did not achieve a much greater result. It was one of those case where "less is more".
My S.G. has BKP Alnico II 'Stormy Mondays', so your Alnico IV 'Riff Raffs' should bring the house down ! :D
Congratulations of the Gigs by the way !
:band5:
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Cheers matey - some useful advice there too!
I'll give it a try...
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You can try a Keeley Java Boost in mid or treble boost mode... that will help it cut through more and scream when you solo....
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Hello again Twinfan,
Just a bit of random input to try. I was reading an article on the site "Singlecoil.com" where it gave the supposed 'ideal' setting for any Fender Twin you might find provided at a club gig. As the Twins have 6L6 output tubes (and so does my Laney head), I thought I would just mention the settings in case the un-obvious actually works. They called it the "rule of six".
Settings recommended were therefore:
Bass = 2
Middle = 3
Treble = 6.
This is supposed to get that cut'n'twang out of the box.
I also find my own 4 x 12 GT 12-75 cab quite bass heavy, so perhaps you could get away with these settings.
I do not use these settings myself, but a bit of random input/experimentation is always worth a go eh ?
All the best, and keep those Velocettes rolling !
Derek.
:D
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Cheers matey. We gigged on Saturday and the settings I used were pretty similar to those above, and I used the 1960A with my GH50L running EL34s. It sounded awesome with my Riff Raff SG! I reverted to the old volume knob trick and it worked really well - rhythm on 5 and 10 for solos. With me on one side of the stage and bass/second guitar on the other I had no trouble cutting through.
It's not just your amp, pedals and speakers - stage placement makes a difference too!
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Thanks for the feedback Twinfan,
You have raised and then solved a very relevant puzzle for many of us out here in BKP land.
I was especially interested in the use of the volume knob trick and your observations about stage placement.
I use the softer AII SMs in my S.G, but when I get a chance to gig again, the volume control trick will apply as much to sweet jazzy blues as it does to 70's rock. I find this method works well with the more subtle and well balanced BKP sets, whereas the (modern type of) stock Gibsons tended to totally change tonal character as well as volume when rolling up to ten.
With BKPs I find that the volume changes, but your 'signature sound' stays intact. Quality goods indeed. :D
I recently made a further breakthrough ( on my AIV Mule loaded Les Paul) in capturing my own tone ideal and pickup balance, by breaking convention and setting the neck p/u 1mm closer to the strings than the bridge p/u. This makes the volume(s) equal, yet took the attack slightly off the treble. As i have also done the phase reverse mod (ala Peter Green/Snowy White) it now works like heaven in the middle toggle position without having to back off the bridge p/u volume further than the neck p/u. The 'Riff Raffs' which you kindly recommended to me in the past sure do sound like an exciting pickup, but I need dripping honey...
Viva la difference !
Best of luck with future gigs, hope the news of your band spreads far and wide !
Regards,
Derek. :D
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I would add to the volume control "trick" -this was how I learned many moons ago- back off for the verses- full on for the solos etc Guitar + Amp and occasional wah or MXR distortion plus and that was it. Without going all misty eyed for the "good old days", the volume control on your guitar is a useful tool and BKP's seem to respond better than stock pups ( and EMGs) in my case.
Placement on stage is a vital ingredient- we use the same stage set up each time we play and obviously it varies from venue to venue depending upon space available.
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What you guys are saying is true. I've found the character of the Riff Raffs is the same at a volume of 5, but with less oomph and bite. The tone is still there in abundance, it's just not pushing the amp as hard. Wound up to 10, bite and aggression joins the party ready for my Angus pentatonic widdle-outs!
We hadn't tried this stage setup before, as the guys wanted to mirror the real DC - bass and lead on the drum snare side, and rhythm on the opposite side. We basically swapped Malcolm/Angus and it worked MUCH better when backlining. Through a PA it's less of an issue of course.
You learn so much more about guitars when you're gigging!