Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: gingataff on July 30, 2006, 04:03:18 PM
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I've just read a description of a guitar that uses SA mahogany and a AAAA quilted maple top ( bent top, not carved). I know about the maple, but is SA mahogany any good? The blurb said that it's supposed to sound awesome but I've only heard about Honduran or West African mahogany before.
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I have a South African guitar in my dept, I will have a word with him to see if he knows anything (apart from how to get drunk)
Rob...
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I have a South African guitar in my dept, I will have a word with him to see if he knows anything (apart from how to get drunk)
A guitar that will get drunk with you? Now that's something I'd pay a premium for :lol:
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I have a South African guitar in my dept, I will have a word with him to see if he knows anything (apart from how to get drunk)
Rob...
Should have read
I have a South African guitarist in my dept, I will have a word with him to see if he knows anything (apart from how to get drunk)
But I can see definate advantage in the former (though mistyped) message.
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South African mahogany should be fine. It's that stuff from the Philippines you have to watch out for.
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Surely if its the same species of mahogany tree and the same age it would be fine? So surely it doesnt matter where it grows, or is there something wrong with Philipino soil or something? :?
I was talking to a fella from a timber yard last week and he said about how expensive mahogany is. He gets people goin in there for guitar projects now and again wanting to buy the stuff, realising how expensive it is and then trying to buy this other wood that on the surface/grain looks the same. This other wood turns out to be duff with tone and blunts their blades, hehe!
Just goes to prove theres nothing like real mahogany for good tone. :D
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Surely if its the same species of mahogany tree and the same age it would be fine? So surely it doesnt matter where it grows, or is there something wrong with Philipino soil or something? :?
That's the thing: it isn't the same species, even though it's called mahogany.
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:o
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Also known as sapele or khaya, makes very nice guitars!! Honduran and brazilian (or other south american) mahoganys are what is traditionally used by the big guitar makers but thats just because itswhat they could get hold of (but is increasingly rare), funny how most of the things we now call tone wood were only used because they were easy to get!!
The asian stuff (lauan and similar) is not as pretty and usually sounds dud. A lot of timber yards in the UK dont distinguish between their mahoganys so buyer beware!!
A lot of these names are interchangable for different species of wood anyway
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You mention Sapele...
I was down a local timber yard talking to the guy there a while back (finding offcuts to make a neck) and was asking about mahogany. He went through the issue of certification that is now needed on all mahogany imports, which in turn can add a serious extra cost to to wood.
Currently he is selling brazilian mahogany for about 70 quid a square meter (out of his old stocks, this will go way up if he buys cert mahogany :? ), and a few hobby guitar builders have asked for the Sapele IIRC instead as its £28 a square meter, looks just like mahogany, but he's had a number of complaints back as people dont realise the grain is different, therefore the tone isnt mahogany tone.
There again he's a marine timber specialist, not a tonewood specialist so I dont get their aggro? People really should do their research before buying wood. I did. :lol:
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Sapele is being used on quite a few acoustics now, and a few hobby builders are using it for electrics but i dont think any major manufacturers are yet in seroius quantities. It doesnt sound like south american mahogany but that doesnt mean it sounds bad.
If you are after a good wood thats like mahogany but BETTER, try a limba/korina guitar (I believe limba is also an african wood). it comes in two varieties but they are both just different sections from the same tree. Black limba is prettier and more expensive than the white limba but they should sound about the same, warm like mahogany but more so!! Thats my recomendation because its one of my favorite sounding woods.
Bare in mind when taking about tonewoods that even pieces from the same tree can sound different, let alone different trees. Some honduran mahogany is better than other honduran mahogany. Some sapele will sound very similar to mahogany some wont. Thats why most guitar builders like to choose the wood themselves or trust specialist suppliers. The people that were not happy with sapele as a tonewood probably didnt go through every single plank looking for flaws, grain direction, run out and checking the supposed tap tone like most luthiers will.
I'm going to stop now before i start ranting about brazilian rosewood and what a farce thats become!!
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Wez, very true about the Limba, seen that around and heard some basic examples. A lovery wood. The sapele seemed more like a harder wood to work? Is this right?
Yeah, true, the hobbyist is hardly going to check over the wood as thoroughly. There again its my hobby and I tap the wood at various places with my nails and knuckles. So far I think I've got it right, but we'll see when it gets finished. :wink: :lol:
Yeah rosewood.. done to death :wink: Starting to hate the stuff now thanks to all the beaurocracy - and nutters with their various opinions on it. :roll:
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I do think most hobbyists are quite thorough but there is a difference between the person thats meticiously planned every part of their build and researched everything thoroughly. Then theres the guy that woke up one morning and thought 'I can do that', ends up with something thats a complete mess - if finished at all.
Building guitars is relativly easy but it does take research!!
I started tapping wood from the very moment i decided to build guitars, i didnt know enough to be able to analise the noise on the first ones but i think after 20 ish guitars i have a better idea, still quite vague though. More experience needed.
I should say that i havnt used sapele yet but i have heard pretty good reports on it and seen it used quite a few times. From what i have heard it is harder to work than honduran, but the honduran i have used was very nice stuff.
I think its only a good thing if the major manufacturers are willing to try a variety of woods rather than focusing on one tree till the stocks are exhausted (not that the guitar making world is the worst culprit). For one thing it means that guitarists will have a wider palette of tones to choose from.
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Maple, mahogany, ash. I have to say I'm guilty of loving all three, but even now I've started to see interesting ideas pop up in mags atleast.
I think the furniture trade has done a lot to kill off the stocks of mahogany, it looks good and its easy to work with and cut. One of the few woods I'd say its a pleasure to sand. :D
I'm still on the first guitar, technically, but I started it about 10 years ago and had to leave it (not enough tools, too hard to hand cut ash :roll: ). I picked up again a couple of months back and have received loads of advice from guitar makers, experienced hobbyists, shops etc.
I'm just trying to take my time, but you still make a heap of mistakes. The second guitar should be much easier though. :wink: I'd say building and carving the body is easier than the neck, the neck you have to get right, and line it up properly. I've spent 2 weeks on mine so far. :oops: :lol:
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If you want to make the neck easier to do get a pre-radiused and slotted fretboard and a truss rod that needs a flat channel. The first neck i ever made turned out playable, if a little on the chubby side. I would say making playable necks is quite easy but it took me about 10 guitars to get a fantastic neck. I still veere towards the chunky side but thats because its my preference, i can make really skinny but still comfy necks as well now.
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My ideal necks are the SG and hiway 1 strat I have. Both are really similar to play, just the right thickness for me. I do have a palm bay with a super think neck thats quite good to play, but prefer the other two.
Yeah I was thinking flat channel, mainly coz I dont have the setup to route a curved channel ala Les Paul, plus making the fillet would be a hell of a lot easier too :D
I was going to make my own fretboard, I have the wire and all that. I was going to make a template for the radius to hold against it and sight it, dont know how practicle that is but its better than nothing. My main issue is deciding which wood to use, lol! I have the stunning iroko, some loverly maple and some two tone cherry. The cherry is quite a soft wood, so thats my last choice tbh. The iroko will be a pain to cut but would be quite cool. :lol: And obviously the maple would tie in with the mahogany/maple neck I'm working on, so thats my first choice.
I did buy a premade ebony fretboard years back, but it warped and split IIRC. Got bunged somehow, despite the fact I could have used it for fret markers instead of the ol mother o pearl. And on maple I think that would have worked quite well.
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Maple necks are probably easiest to practice on, enough resistance to stop you carving right through in one good stroke but still relatively easy.
I meant a board like this, you still have to taper and fret it :
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bodies,_necks,_wood/Electric_guitar:_Fingerboards/25_Scale_Fingerboard_-_12_Radius.html
And for radiusing a flat fretboard blank these are very helpfull:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Leveling/2/Fretboard_Radius-sanding_Blocks.html
Ebano does split quite easily when fretting, its why not many of the big manufactures use it, its also getting harder to find trees that are big enough to get planks that are straight grained, i had afew eebony boards warp on me.
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Last time I read about it (5 or so years back tbh) ebony was getting a bit to rare. Theres a moral concern with using a wood like that if it is becoming endangered, I reckon. :roll:
Cheers for the link. Stewmac seems quite cool, though I dont have a credit card so would be paying via cheque to a uk company if I needed it. I think my scale was 25.5", so this is more my style:
link (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bodies,_necks,_wood/Electric_guitar:_Fingerboards/25-1_2_Fender_Scale_Compound_Radius_Fingerboard.html)
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I like to get wood from suppliers i know are using as much of the tree as possible, waste is the main problem
here is a little article about certified honduran mahogany, yes it costs more but it is worth it.
http://www.earthsourcewood.com/bulletin1.htm
Since most wood we use comes from less economically developed countries there is always some over exploitation of the natural resources
Heres a greenpeace pamflet on woods:
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/FullReport/6759.pdf
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Never been too into Greenpeace, but they have their uses :lol:
Cheers for that, I'll try and read that tonight! :D