Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Kepu on August 26, 2006, 03:57:24 PM

Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Kepu on August 26, 2006, 03:57:24 PM
The title explains it all...
so what humbucker set would be the best for a semi-hollow guitar for playing blues and jazz and some classic rock
I'm going after this warm, thick, clear sound, kinda like SRV

suggestions? :)
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Buddha on August 26, 2006, 04:58:40 PM
i would say the stormy mondays would be good for blues/jazz.
 8)
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Fourth Feline on August 26, 2006, 08:54:33 PM
I would agree on Stormy Mondays.

My only caution is that in another post, I thought I remembered Tim recommending Mules for a more 'middy' sound.

I have Alnico II SMs in an S.G. which has very similar body resonance to a hollow body, and they sound lovely and clear, evenly voiced across the neck  yet sweet. I have Alnico IV Mules in a Les Paul and they do sound more 'nasal' in the mid range than do the SMs. The Mules are detailed and balanced, but not quite as equally balanced across the tonal spectrum as the SMs.

I would therefore stick with the lovely detailed, clear, balanced and sweet Stormy Mondays for  specific Blues & Jazz usage.

Also, if you like a clear yet thick sound like SRV, they have a haunting quality that sits somewhere between a humbucker and a fat single coil. I would use them for 60's Soul and Blues  also for that reason; - the enigmantic 'best of both worlds' sound.

  :D
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: dave_mc on August 26, 2006, 09:51:46 PM
what about the "manhattan" (think that's the name)? it's a lower gain missisippi queen, it's a p90 in a humbucker spacing.

if you want a true humbucker, though...
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Peter Antal on August 27, 2006, 02:29:47 AM
Mules or Mississipi Queens. :)
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: blue on August 27, 2006, 05:39:47 AM
obviously a coil tapped warpig is the only way to go!

actually, that's not quite as fatuous as it sounds, seemingly the warpig has a very deep, rich sound which might actually work very well with a low gain amp and a jazzy kind of sound.  traditionally something like the stormy monday or mississippi queen would be the jazz pickup, but i think the 'pig might surprise people.  that kind of power, which is apparently coupled with excellent dynamics, could make for a really gorgeous jazz sound.

maybe it's my imagination, but i seem to remember that a lot of jazz players went for the duncan and dimarzio distortion pickups when they first appeared in the 70's
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: plastercaster on August 27, 2006, 07:54:08 AM
Quote from: blue
obviously a coil tapped warpig is the only way to go!

actually, that's not quite as fatuous as it sounds, seemingly the warpig has a very deep, rich sound which might actually work very well with a low gain amp and a jazzy kind of sound.  traditionally something like the stormy monday or mississippi queen would be the jazz pickup, but i think the 'pig might surprise people.  that kind of power, which is apparently coupled with excellent dynamics, could make for a really gorgeous jazz sound.

maybe it's my imagination, but i seem to remember that a lot of jazz players went for the duncan and dimarzio distortion pickups when they first appeared in the 70's

Quote from: tim
we sell alot of pickups in France and over there the Warpig is loved by..........jazzers!

Not sure how good they'd be for blues though.
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Kepu on August 27, 2006, 05:45:05 PM
hmm... im kinda off here :?

oh yea, the guitar has its stock pickups now
(SD JB in bridge and Jazz in neck)
and they're good for metal too, as i'm huge metal fan i'd like to play some of it too occasionally

so would it be good to buy Warpig (for bridge?) and Stormy Monday (for neck?) so the guitar would be as (or more) versatile as it is now
and if the warpig really is good for jazz...
I just wonder how they would work together

and any more information for "manhattan"? there's no info on the website

the thing i hate about BKP is that there's so damn many good pickups to choose from :wink:
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: dave_mc on August 27, 2006, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: Kepu
and any more information for "manhattan"? there's no info on the website



I think I only heard of it in passing one day... you'd need to ask tim. there are a load of custom options available, but you kind of need to know of them...
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Tim on August 28, 2006, 08:01:19 PM
My first call for semis is the Stormy Monday set as they are classic PAF in tone but not too hot, ie they don't push the bass too hard which can make semi's sound too boomy.
Mississippi Queen humbucker size P90s are great in this situation too, AV in the bridge and AIV in the neck as standard-great breadth of tone, fat but articulate.
The yet to be released Manhattan uses Alnico III magents and a lower wind for a fat, almost acoustic tone.
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Kepu on August 29, 2006, 05:39:23 PM
alright thanks for the replies guys!

now i'm atleast a bit on the right track... so at least one stormy monday

anyways how's
- SM & Warpig set
- SM & Mississippi Queen set
- SM & The Mule set?

or should I just get a calibrated SM set?

and how's the other choices like Emerald and Black Dog?
should I experiement and try them out or go with a 'sure thing'?

damn you Tim for making so many great pickups... :(  :D
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: PhilKing on August 29, 2006, 06:20:49 PM
I put Stormy Mondays into my 335 and they sound great.  It is a calibrated unpotted set with Alnico II magnets.  I got them aged and they also look great, see this thread for pics.:

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4881
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on August 29, 2006, 06:44:35 PM
can we still buy the manhatten, even tho it hasn't been officially released yet???
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Kepu on August 31, 2006, 05:45:15 PM
almost perfect show of what kind of tone i'm after!!:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wd2C9LwYGqM

the album version is a bit better, but still!


would the stormy monday set reach that tone easily or should i get one of the combos i mentioned before?
(and i'm still interrested how they would work together)
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Fourth Feline on August 31, 2006, 08:11:48 PM
The 'jangly' rythmn/chord work is pure Alnico II Stormy Monday, but the creamy lead tone sounds more like the Alnico IV Mule. The confusing factor is that you ae loading a semi - whereas he is playing a Les Paul type which will emphasise the mids anyway.

Of the combos suggested so far I would vote for SM neck and Mule bridge.

To be very precise, though he sounds to be playing a neck p/u lead tone, so perhaps a set of Mules or Crawlers.

To sumarise, Alnico II SMs ( in my S.G.) sound exactly like the chordal work, but the Alnico IV Mules ( in my Les Paul ) sound close to the lead voicing.

I think you posting a Les Paul clip to decide on the best pickups for a semi is going to widen the debate on 'best choice' even wider  !




Regards,

Derek.

  :D
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Kepu on August 31, 2006, 08:32:55 PM
yea it was the lead sound I was more after for

hmmm... so now it's kinda narrowed to SM set or SM + Mule set...
if somebody could hit me up with some points for the pros and cons of those pickup sets, I could make my final decision :)

thanks Fourth Feline!
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on August 31, 2006, 08:50:48 PM
cons?? these are BKPs, they are perfect ... not helpful i know, but it's true
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Kepu on August 31, 2006, 08:56:34 PM
haha, well let's say then the differences of the sets :lol:
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Fourth Feline on August 31, 2006, 10:25:29 PM
Then if it's the lead tone, go for Alnico IV Mules.

It's a classic 'P.A.F' tone he has there,  but the other BKP classics such as Riff Raffs, VH11s black dogs and Emeralds etc. may be a bit too biting/spiky  for your needs. (I like the same sweet rounded quality as you).

The next logical question in my mind is

"can the SM's produce the cream ?".

My only doubt is that Alnico IV magnets in a slightly hotter ( yet still classic) pickup like the Mule definately do. I hear the weaker Alnico II SM can become less focused at high gain, especially in the bass. Not a problem whilst playing Jazz/soul/blues through a sparkly clean amp etc.

As another comparison, look on youtube for Snowy white playing " Bird of Paradise" - as Tim advised another user the SMs would get all that contrast between the very clean chords and the creamy lead. It's just that in a Les paul, I found the SM's where better at the chord voicings, but the Mules hit the lead work better.  

I gather the Mule is voiced around a late 50's PAF, whereas the SM is voiced around the 61/62 era when the S.G. first came in.

I think Guru Tim would be best hearing the clip and giving the definitive comment, but I hope my own observations help in some way.

Being a Semi, I would still opt for the SM's and enjoy the way they maximise the character of THAT PARTICULAR guitar. Borrow a heavy solid body if ever desperate to exactly emulate the lead voice of the video clip you posted. I just think a Semi sounds so good because it is a semi and is not meant to sound like a Les Paul.

If I ever had the pleasure of owning a semi, it would be the SM's into it for me with no doubt and then a third set/type of BKP altogether into the then empty S.G.

Hope that helps more than confuses !

Regards,

Derek.
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Kepu on September 01, 2006, 01:21:15 PM
WOW just simply wow... was that Bird of Paradise played with SMs?

oh my god... it was... amazing


now I'm very strong on the SM set!!
I'd better email Tim to him to hit the last nail

you've been great help Feline! Thanks! :D
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Fourth Feline on September 01, 2006, 01:38:51 PM
Hiya Kepu,

The Snowy White clip was not played with Stormy Mondays, but I am sure Tim said SMs would be the closest when asked by another user on the forum. ( please check this with Tim, he may suggest a SM set with a stronger magnet such as an Alnico IV instead of the usual Alnico II).

 The chordal intro is DEFINATELY what I heard when the SMs where in my Les Paul, but I never wound up the gain to test if the lead tone was as authentic as Snowy's.  Snowy plays Vox AC30's which I gather change tonality past 5 on the pre amp anyway. The pickups Snowy used were the original Gibson 1957 PAF's that came with it when he bought the guitar later in the sixties.

I just love the SMs personaly, but genuinely want you to get the right thing for you, especially bearing in mind that a Semi-hollow bodied guitar will sound more 'vocal' and hollowed out in the mid range than any Les Paul.
(The Les Paul does weigh a ton !)

On a social note; if you enjoyed that clip, check out Gregor Hilden (also on youtube) playing "blues instrumental using '59 Les Paul".

Let me know what Tim says after seeing Snowy and how you get on.

Hope this message reaches you in time !

Warm regards,

Derek.
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Kepu on September 01, 2006, 01:54:01 PM
alright, thanks for the addition!
I was just writing the email to Tim, so let's see what he has to add to this :)

and that Gregor Hilden clip was just awesome
thank you again!
Title: Best HBs for Jazz/Blues?
Post by: Kepu on September 02, 2006, 12:48:39 PM
sorry for double posting but...

Tim replied that the SM set is nearly always the best choice...
he also mentioned that Mule in the bridge would have more hotter tone for more rockier stuff
but also Mississippi Queen in neck would be good for sustaining/fluid solos but would have good clean tone too

so... either SM set or Mule into bridge, but at the same time I'm very tempted to try P90...
pretty likely I'll go with SM in bridge and Mississippi Queen into neck
I'll decide later when I have enough money to buy them :)

Thanks very much for the help all of you!! :D