Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Cattivo Ragazzo on June 13, 2005, 02:43:07 AM
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I know the biggest difference between BKP and the likes of DiMarzio is that DiMarzio are machine wound, but is that the only difference? What else do they do to their pickups to make them sound so %$^%?
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There is no "one" answer to this question, imo.
Not every DiMarzio pup sounds bad, just as not every Duncan pup sounds bad. It's mostly a matter of personal preference.
Overall, I'm 10x more satisfied with my experience with BK than with Duncan, DiMarzio, Fralin, Barden, or EMG.
What I think makes BK pickups so great is the attention given to each one, as well as the quality of the parts. To say that Tim Mills and company are fanatical in their attention to detail is a gross understatement.
What makes BK, the company, superior is the amazing customer service, personalized attention, and absolute commitment to customer satisfaction.
I live in the US -- I can get Fralin, Barden, and Duncan custom pups much cheaper. Dimarzio is 15 minutes from my house with no traffic. I still choose Bareknuckle because they are just as committed to my tonal quest as I am. :)
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What makes BK, the company, superior is the amazing customer service, personalized attention, and absolute commitment to customer satisfaction.
+1
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What makes bareknuckle our pickup of choice is, that everytime we play a note or a chord we just canīt stop smiling at how good it sounds. In that whenever you have a question or something you may need help, you have the OWNER of the company replying every single thing (even the most stupid questions ignorant people like me ask), just trying to help you and get you along in getting the tone in your head. I never came across with such an amazing forum like this one. People just share they thoughts, nobody is rude, everybody is friendly. In times when selling big and fast sounds like the common factor, thereīs someone who only thinks in making the best product no matter what. And that is very honorable thing.
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Of course, all of the above stands for the WHOLE bareknuckle crew that is!!!!
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would have to agreee with all of the above, i deal with tim on a professional basis as a guitar tech, and any problems or questions he is always more than happy to help and advise!
I cudnt imagine seymour duncan or any other pickup maker doing that.
we have even called him on saturdays and been able to get his help and support.
keep up the good work, keep listening to the customers and you will be bigger than all the others put together!
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It's pure black magic and mojo. Rumour has it that Tim performs wierd rites over them at midnight in a secret ceremony involving virgins (not that I believe that last bit!), herbal cigarettes and mind altering music.
But hey, combined with a lot of knowledge, attention to detail and hard work - it works!
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Virgins Ron? Hell we ran out of those along time ago around here :lol:
I don't drink or do drugs either I'm afraid-I think a vitamin pill is as adventurous as I get these days-I work long hours and you can't do that all messed up!
So what makes BKPs stand out from the crowd?
Well I think you guys have answered it yourself and I'm glad the differences are recognisable. What I'd like to add is that making pickups isn't rocket science, the hard part is in the voicing.Attention to detail and patience is the next most important thing. The big companies all work to a tight budget and time constraints which is fair enough however we've spent a lot of time researching and more importantly,roadtesting, materials and components along with production methods to get to where we are. A for instance for you:potting. Vacuum potting is the norm for mass produced pickups these days along with transformers etc....works very well for quickly saturating a coil with wax.However we've found that a long soak in 'hot' wax(paraffin/beeswax) lowers DC resistance and produces a clearer tone from any given coil as the wire is actually annealed. Most handwinders will pot for @45 mins which is enough to do the job but we'll pot anywhere upto a couple of hours depending on the coil. The whole process is time consumming but the result is well worth it and we have work practices to maximise our time.
Handwinding coils is also very labour intensive and soaks up time too but you compare a properly scatterwound coil(not all handwound coils are scattered)and a machine wound coil-the loss of high end definition in the machine coil is so apparent you'd have to be deaf not to notice. Likewise the difference between plain enamel and the cheaper polysol wire...I could go on all day!!
I'm committed to sticking with the way we wind and build our pickups and won't compromise this as BKP grows. You'll always be able to guarantee(and so will we) that a Bare Knuckle Pickup has been individually handwound and handmade no matter what.
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I'm committed to sticking with the way we wind and build our pickups and won't compromise this as BKP grows. You'll always be able to guarantee(and so will we) that a Bare Knuckle Pickup has been individually handwound and handmade no matter what.
That's very good to know ...and if there's one company that I believe when they say that it is Bare Knuckle! :D 8) :D 8)
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reading this makes me feel better for not buying a cheaper alternative to a BKP, to be honest at first i seemed like a bit of a rich git for spending so much on one pickup but now ive read this i understand why its so expensive, and probably wouldve spent as much if not more trying other companies. of course, ive not even got my Mule yet but at the minute i really cant wait to try it out, after all the good reviews ive read!
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I think that companies like DiMarzio, SD etc should have a cusom department where they make their pickups by hand, for a higher cost of course.
I hope Bare Knuckle don't get so big that they haveto go automated, that would suck, royally.
Andy!
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I hope Bare Knuckle don't get so big that they haveto go automated, that would suck, royally.
It won't... :D
You'll always be able to guarantee(and so will we) that a Bare Knuckle Pickup has been individually handwound and handmade no matter what.
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I'm committed to sticking with the way we wind and build our pickups and won't compromise this as BKP grows. You'll always be able to guarantee(and so will we) that a Bare Knuckle Pickup has been individually handwound and handmade no matter what.
That's great news! :)
Tim, can you keep up with the growing demand for BKP? There are some pickup makers who have some two-month long waiting list for the orders. :wink:
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Duncan's, DiMarzio's, EMG's and the likes will improve the guitars tone over stock. Every now and then you'll get a guitar with a serious X-factor. At BKP the X-factor is standard. Absolutely every guitar you equip with BKP's will get that X-factor. Next to that is the sublime customer sevice. You can deal with the boss himself who will do anything to make you happy (tone wise).
This is also why I like Reverend guitars so much. They also have a great product and second to none customer service.
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I know how good BKP are chaps, I use them. I was just wondering about the differences between them and other pickup companies. I have used tons of different pickups and I used to think the best pickup for me was the DiMarzio Tone Zone but the BKP's beat the $%^& out of them. Thanks for the answers.
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I think that companies like DiMarzio, SD etc should have a cusom department where they make their pickups by hand, for a higher cost of course.
They do, but they take along time and are more expensive than us.
I hope Bare Knuckle don't get so big that they haveto go automated, that would suck, royally.
Andy!
Never-I didn't start this to make money,I started it to get pickups sounding right and for me that means handwinding and scattering the wire too.
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For the record, DMZ and SD both have custom shops, as well. But you're still gonna end up with a JB, Demon, or Jazz, just made by hand ... I don't see the point, personally.
EDIT: And no return policy, screw you very much. ;)
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Tim, can you keep up with the growing demand for BKP? There are some pickup makers who have some two-month long waiting list for the orders. Wink
If I were on my own the waiting list would be huge but there are 3 of us winding now and have been for the past 6 months so ordertime is @5 days however we'll always prioritise an order and get a pickup out ASAP whenever we can.
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If I were on my own the waiting list would be huge but there are 3 of us winding now and have been for the past 6 months so ordertime is @5 days however we'll always prioritise an order and get a pickup out ASAP whenever we can.
My thougths exactly ... just hire new winding monkeys as needed!
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I've noticed the difference between the SD & DiMarzio and for me the differences are as clear as a bell. Leo Fender said it best when talking about home made Lemonade of all things. He liked to 'taste the lemon and the soda, but not all the fluff that mass produced stuff has' (or words to that effect!). That's what I notice with BKP.
But the major difference for me is not just the differences in tone, it's the feeling of buying into something because of the levels of service. With SD and DiMarzio you feel as if what you are buying into extends no further than the plastic box. With Bare Knuckles knowing that the pickup has been produced after a number of factors have been considered makes you feel that the experience does not end with what is in the box. It extends much further than that and in business that is a pretty special commodity to have. :)
However....
Tim, reading an earlier post it sounds like you have given up Sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. Don't tell me you make do with a slap in the face, an aspirin and the Okey Cokey these days?! PDT_008
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Not seen Tim play then??
www.ozzmosis.co.uk
:twisted:
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Not seen Tim play then??
www.ozzmosis.co.uk
:twisted:
Somehow I doubt that Tim holds back whilst on stage! :) Playing the riffs of Iommi, Rhoads and Wylde is not for someone who does not work the stage!
Checked out the website and been keeping an eye on it to see if they get a gig locally. I guess the Herdsman is the only venue in Hereford that does live music that would be large enough. The Marrs Bar in Worcester is another more established venue (although I rarely go there).
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Touching upon some of the points above, I don't think BKP's are expensive if you think Ģ ( or $) for tone. For the sake of a few quid, it is worth it to me to pay for something I am gonna want to stick with. I have only had experience of either stock Fender or EMG's so I would admit that my own experience is limited but I like to think that I have a good ear for tone. Somehow I think Tim and the crew are going to be able to expand but not at the expense of what we have all come to know. The guy is clearly so passionate and the thing is, I am sure that if he does need extra winding mokeys then he will recruit like minded souls- I am stating the obvious I know -I think I'll have some tea now and will shut up now.
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I think Steve and Ray might be upset about being called Monkeys....
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I think Steve and Ray might be upset about being called Monkeys....
LOL!
I mean it with the utmost respect!
In my band I'm called the riff monkey!
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And don't blame me, I was just quoting Ben- besides which I said that he can recruit ( in future tense) so clearly I was not referring to Steve & Ray- erm- perhaps I should stop digging
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If Steve and Ray are my Monkeys I guess that makes me the organ grinder :lol: -they'll love that!
Everything is done as a team effort when it comes to winding and making the pickups-noone is 'just' the tea boy although Steve does make a mean cuppa :lol:
I must admit I have this thing about personally making the pickups of any customer I speak/mail/deal with as I like to see a job through and equally have a thing about always winding sets as sets,ie all in one sitting as it were.
However we can all do each others jobs and noone does one thing only like just winding or just making coils etc.Variety is the spice of life and a happy work environment too................it also keep you on your toes!
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I think Steve and Ray might be upset about being called Monkeys....
I'm sure they're the best people for building the pickups, I mean Tim's so enthusiastic that he must have chosen the best to do the job.
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It's funny you should say that but fate chose them really-finding the next member of staff is going to be tricky as I'll actually have to look for them.Trust is the biggest part of it, not how fast someone can work but being able to trust them to do it properly and also to work in a team.
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Not seen Tim play then??
www.ozzmosis.co.uk
(http://www.ozzmosis.co.uk/images/photos/gallery/HB5G5849.jpg)
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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I wish I lived in Devon, I'd love to do what you guys do. Mrs 38th, however, has a small business and it is to her what music is to me and sadly, in my case, it pays the bills.I think you will find the right person at the right time. It is amazing that I have had several people mention BKP's to me so clearly word is out and that was before the Guitarist review.
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Watch this space-with Steve Stevens on board and a few other things in the pipeline that I can't mention yet, things are set to be alot of fun around here and I'm really glad you guys will be part of it all.
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If you ever need another monkey, contact me, Tim.
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I wish I lived in Devon, I'd love to do what you guys do. Mrs 38th, however, has a small business and it is to her what music is to me and sadly, in my case, it pays the bills.I think you will find the right person at the right time. It is amazing that I have had several people mention BKP's to me so clearly word is out and that was before the Guitarist review.
I'd love to do it to, I have no clue about electronics though :(
If only BKP offered apprenticships....
Andy!
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What happened to the time honoured tradition of wanted to be a ROCK STAR?!
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That'd be good too but my band hasn't had a practice yet and I can't write (or play for that matter) to save my skin.
Andy!
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That'd be good too but my band hasn't had a practice yet and I can't write (or play for that matter) to save my skin.
Andy!
That didn't stop Lou Reed.
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What happened to the time honoured tradition of wanted to be a ROCK STAR?!
I wanted to become a policeman or a pilot. Ended up studying marketing and became a BBE.
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:guitar4: As much as i`d also like to be one of Tims winding monkeys
i`d much prefer to be the guy Tim paid to try the P/U`s out once he & the boys have finished making them !!! :D
Now that must be a hell of a job !! :lol: :lol:
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:guitar4: As much as i`d also like to be one of Tims winding monkeys
i`d much prefer to be the guy Tim paid to try the P/U`s out once he & the boys have finished making them !!! :D
Now that must be a hell of a job !! :lol: :lol:
Thats Tims Job!
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On a more serious note....
Does anyone know what the deal is with the pickups in the Axis and EVH model Music Man's?
Several dealers seem to be adament that they are just a Tone Zone and Air Norton combination where as DiMarzio and EB/MM have always maintained that they have alwaye been wound especially for the guitar, as originally designed in laison with EVH?
I know that the Tone Zone was initially a design DiMarzio put to EVH when coming up with ideas for the EB/MM that he rejected but DiMarzio thought was good enough anyway so they went ahead and marketed it. Just would not mind knowing (well, my EB/MM Axis would like to know anyway!) :)
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That'd be good too but my band hasn't had a practice yet and I can't write (or play for that matter) to save my skin.
Andy!
That didn't stop Lou Reed.
Or countless others! :roll:
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I have an EVH music man, and I used to have a Wolfgang, and they are both very different pickups to the Tone Zone IMHO. I can't comment about the Air Norton though because I've not heard one.
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:guitar4: As much as i`d also like to be one of Tims winding monkeys
i`d much prefer to be the guy Tim paid to try the P/U`s out once he & the boys have finished making them !!! :D
Now that must be a hell of a job !! :lol: :lol:
What d'ya mean, that's my job!!! :lol:
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On a more serious note....
Does anyone know what the deal is with the pickups in the Axis and EVH model Music Man's?
Several dealers seem to be adament that they are just a Tone Zone and Air Norton combination where as DiMarzio and EB/MM have always maintained that they have alwaye been wound especially for the guitar, as originally designed in laison with EVH?
I know that the Tone Zone was initially a design DiMarzio put to EVH when coming up with ideas for the EB/MM that he rejected but DiMarzio thought was good enough anyway so they went ahead and marketed it. Just would not mind knowing (well, my EB/MM Axis would like to know anyway!) :)
They're not TZ or ANs-I've rewound quite a few now for customers and they're quite weird, the bridge is @DC14K and neck @DC16K wound with polysol on brass baseplates and alnico V magnets.
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Are they the Wolfgangs or Musicman pups?
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On a more serious note....
Does anyone know what the deal is with the pickups in the Axis and EVH model Music Man's?
Several dealers seem to be adament that they are just a Tone Zone and Air Norton combination where as DiMarzio and EB/MM have always maintained that they have alwaye been wound especially for the guitar, as originally designed in laison with EVH?
I know that the Tone Zone was initially a design DiMarzio put to EVH when coming up with ideas for the EB/MM that he rejected but DiMarzio thought was good enough anyway so they went ahead and marketed it. Just would not mind knowing (well, my EB/MM Axis would like to know anyway!) :)
They're not TZ or ANs-I've rewound quite a few now for customers and they're quite weird, the bridge is @DC14K and neck @DC16K wound with polysol on brass baseplates and alnico V magnets.
Thanks Tim for clearing that one up. Just goes to show that going by the DC rating is not an accurate means of judging the power of a pickup as the bridge unit really does kick out some thwack. It starts to distort a clean amp the moment you unlatch the case!
Apparently the bridge was moddled on readings taken from the pickup that Eddie had used as his main stage guitar. When he changed his first call guitar he would rip this one pickup out and stick it in the bridge regardless. Although I think he should recieve a VHII mysteriously through the post with a note saying 'install in bridge of Strat style guitar, use with lead into Variac equipped Marshall and remind us all why the 80's were spent with poodle hair and weirdly painted guitars with a ponchant for tapping....' :D
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I feel the same about James, March. James Hetfield should receive a set of Warpigs mysteriously in the mail, and Kirk could use a Miracle Man. Both with a similar note. Stick into explorer and stick into Les Paul, plug guitar into Mesa Mk IV and Marshall JCM800. Remind us why we used to weir those T-shirts, jeans, black leather jackets and wallets with chains. (Actually, I still dress like that, don't have the mullet anymore though) :twisted:
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I feel the same about James, March. James Hetfield should receive a set of Warpigs mysteriously in the mail, and Kirk could use a Miracle Man. Both with a similar note. Stick into explorer and stick into Les Paul, plug guitar into Mesa Mk IV and Marshall JCM800. Remind us why we used to weir those T-shirts, jeans, black leather jackets and wallets with chains. (Actually, I still dress like that, don't have the mullet anymore though) :twisted:
LOL! Amen, brutha!
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Aye, it should happen to all the ex big bands...
But, I think Bare Knuckle should also send a few letters or parcels out to a few of the newer metal bands, some of these bands (Trivium, KillSwitch, System, SikTh etc) have a really big following and are only going to get bigger.
But then again, sending out a few free packages would probably put a dent into the retained profit of BKP's and it may not successful.
Oh and don't forget to send a set of Trilogy Suites to Andy Dylag :p
Andy!
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I don't think giving away free product is the best way forward. Anybody can do that! What I like is people like Steve Stevens and Jagpanzer buying the pickups in a search for tone. These guys can get lots of pickups free with just a phone call. (I had a pupil who got an EMG endorsment for his band,just with a bit of promo matirial. Didn't make me want to buy EMGs!)
BKP tone and quality speaks for itself when artists dig into their own pockets!
:lol:
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Problem is that some of the big names don't even know Bare Knuckle exists.
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Problem is that some of the big names don't even know Bare Knuckle exists.
But the word is spreading. In the UK the pickups are in shops that high profile musicians visit, it spreading the word wider. But with Steve Stevens using the BKP, but Geoff Whitehorn as well as others, I am sure more big names will be assimilated... sorry, converted! :D
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Aye, it should happen to all the ex big bands...
But, I think Bare Knuckle should also send a few letters or parcels out to a few of the newer metal bands, some of these bands (Trivium, KillSwitch, System, SikTh etc) have a really big following and are only going to get bigger.
But then again, sending out a few free packages would probably put a dent into the retained profit of BKP's and it may not successful.
Oh and don't forget to send a set of Trilogy Suites to Andy Dylag :p
Andy!
We have never given anything away for free. In my opinion if someone pays for something they will value it more, If they like the product why shouldn't they?
BTW, Pin from Sikth already uses a set of Nailbombs!
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We have never given anything away for free. In my opinion if someone pays for something they will value it more, If they like the product why shouldn't they?
I agree 100%; I'm more than happy to pay for anything I like, but having a bit of financial aid for starving artists is a good thing! :)
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Aye, it should happen to all the ex big bands...
But, I think Bare Knuckle should also send a few letters or parcels out to a few of the newer metal bands, some of these bands (Trivium, KillSwitch, System, SikTh etc) have a really big following and are only going to get bigger.
But then again, sending out a few free packages would probably put a dent into the retained profit of BKP's and it may not successful.
Oh and don't forget to send a set of Trilogy Suites to Andy Dylag :p
Andy!
We have never given anything away for free. In my opinion if someone pays for something they will value it more, If they like the product why shouldn't they?
BTW, Pin from Sikth already uses a set of Nailbombs!
I think his Blackmachine was on show at the LGS, shite hot that guitar was, ace tones :D
I see your point Steve, there is absolutely no point in giving product away for free, but I suppose a bit of direct advertising wouldn't do much harm...
Andy!
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That wasn't his guitar, its the same model i think. that one had a como covered miracle man set in. Doug told me at Download that that guitar was sold straight away and he has to finish another one by saturday!
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We are BKP. You will all be assimilated, resistance is futile! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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i have it on very good authority (ie some one VERY high up in a relevant company) that evh has not been using the amps he said he was for a very long time. There were always a few "classic" stacks kicking about, and it was more about profile and deals , so he cudnt be seen to be using the amps he was.
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Aye, it should happen to all the ex big bands...
But, I think Bare Knuckle should also send a few letters or parcels out to a few of the newer metal bands, some of these bands (Trivium, KillSwitch, System, SikTh etc) have a really big following and are only going to get bigger.
But then again, sending out a few free packages would probably put a dent into the retained profit of BKP's and it may not successful.
Oh and don't forget to send a set of Trilogy Suites to Andy Dylag :p
Andy!
I think BK should send some irish tours to robert cray, eric clapton, jimmie vaughan, etc.
Some brown sugar for Keith Richards
Some Mules to Carlos Santana, and Robben Ford
A set of apaches to eric johnson (I think that might have happened)
Oh, and maybe send some more irish and apaches for stevie ray and jimi to heaven(or hell?), to jam along. I bet not even there pickups sound so good!!!!
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Then after that send them the bill, of course!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
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i have it on very good authority (ie some one VERY high up in a relevant company) that evh has not been using the amps he said he was for a very long time. There were always a few "classic" stacks kicking about, and it was more about profile and deals , so he cudnt be seen to be using the amps he was.
Hence the reason why they parted company??
Another source inside the amp industry said that EVH was on something like a 10% split on the 5150s!
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that seems unlikely as he holds a lot of the patents for the amps spec, hence why they have brought a new model out to replace it.
just think he was probably given some bad advice along the way which led to a endorsement he regretted.
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on the subject of good customer service, is my mule done yet tim :P i think its been almost 2 weeks now but i understand you guys get busy!
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that seems unlikely as he holds a lot of the patents for the amps spec, hence why they have brought a new model out to replace it.
just think he was probably given some bad advice along the way which led to a endorsement he regretted.
I don't think Eddie is particularly stable. That probably has more to do with it than anything. If you' remember he left Musicman in a huff too...