Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: AdamB on August 30, 2006, 12:35:09 PM
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What's BK's closest pickup to a Seymour Duncan JB?
I'd rather buy a BK than SD
Cheers
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Well, if you'd rather buy a BKP to a SD then you made that decision for a reason - why then ask for a BKP that sounds like an SD?
As far as I've been informed (when people have asked this question before) there is no BKP that sounds like a JB, you'd be better off asking:
"What BKP for a (insert adjective/guitarist here) tone?"
Sorry if that sounds a bit aggressive, but if you want the sound a JB would give you then go and buy a JB - otherwise pick your BK and welcome to the club :drink:
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Simple answer this one, The Rebel Yell.
deg0ey, the JB is quite a damn fine pickup but not perfect thats probably why hes looking for a BK with similar tonal qualities.
:shock:
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EDIT: Holy Diver. See Ben's post below. However, I've compared a Nailbomb and a JB before and I do think the NB is a good alternative, if you want a more aggressive JB with better cut.
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Edit: First of all, let me say :evil:
There is a TONNE of misinformation in this thread!
Simple answer this one, The Rebel Yell.
There are a few models that are similar to the JB.
Neither of these statements are correct in my opinion. If you were to listen to an original JB, back when they were made by Seymour Duncan the man, NOT Seymour Duncan the company, you would notice quite a big change in the pickup over the years. The DC resistance has gone up, the output has gone up, and the tonal balance is completely different.
The BK pickup that is remarkably close to that original JB, the handmade one that Seymour himself made, is the Holy Diver. The Holy Diver, overall, is clearer than the original JB, and it kills the current model of the JB.
The Nailbomb could be an aggressive, nasty JB, the Crawler is a smoother and bluesier JB, the Holy Diver sounds darker than the Nailbomb and the Rebel Yell has rich mids and incredible harmonics, the sound is right between modern and vintage
Not a good comparison! Besides the Holy Diver, none of the pickups listed are close to the JB, either the original or the new one!
Well, if you'd rather buy a BKP to a SD then you made that decision for a reason - why then ask for a BKP that sounds like an SD?
Well, maybe that's his/her only frame of reference. And your reply is just plain bitchy and trollish.
As far as I've been informed (when people have asked this question before) there is no BKP that sounds like a JB
You've been misinformed, then.
I would definitely recommend a Holy Diver as a replacement for a JB, or if you're looking to capture that original JB tone you've heard on countless albums -- a bit dry, very high output, really strong bass, tuneful growl in the lower mids, and effortless harmonics without the brightness of other pups.
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Well, if you'd rather buy a BKP to a SD then you made that decision for a reason - why then ask for a BKP that sounds like an SD?
Well, maybe that's his/her only frame of reference. And your reply is just plain bitchy and trollish.
Yeah, sorry about that one - I was in a bitchy mood earlier, and it didn't come out quite how I intended...
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TO is correct as usual in that there is more than 1 flavour of the JB. The current pickup is nothing like the original, and I believe that there was at least one other version in the early 90's (it sounded way worse than the original, but still had more tone than the current one). I am assuming that most people who are asking have not played the original and are comparing to the current JB.
If the sound you are after is the Jeff Beck sound from Blow by Blow (which I am guessing is what Seymour had in mind at the time), then I would look to the VHII rather than a higher output pickup.
For the original late 70's JB sound, I would look at the Emerald - it is a bit lower output, but can get the cleaner driven tones that the original JB gets and has great harmonics.
The pickup that gets the mid 80's/early 90's JB sound is the Holydiver. It absolutely blows the JB away though in terms of the overall tone.
There is no BK pickup which can get the horrible sound of the current JB.
The Rebel Yell is what the JB always wanted to be but never quite got there!
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I should post a correction to what I stated earlier ...
For that classic metal JB sound, which was often a JB loaded an alder super strat ... then the Holy Diver is the ticket.
Phil and I were just discussing the Holy Diver v. the Rebel Yell in replacing a JB. Let's just say we agree to disagree :) He says RY, I say HD. (Phil still has a lot to learn about pups, tho PDT_008 --- j/k, buddy)
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I'm going to chime in here and say for the majority of S style guitars the Holydiver is going to be closest to the original JB tone-well as close as I'd want to get anyway-great pickup by the way, the original JB and certainly one that rightly claims it's place in rock history.
In a LP the new Rebel Yell does have a similar mid push to the early JB although it is a touch brighter to my ears and the bass is a little tighter too-as per usual this will be down to the asymmetrical wind and scatterwinding too.
The early JBs I've tested-one of which was Phil's- have all been symmetrically wound, part of the SD philosophy-which accounts for the way it behaves in the high end.
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Cheers everyone :)
I already have a Rebel Yell in my Gibson SG X, just wanted to replace the bridge of my SG standard with something abit different to a rebel yell, and because loads of people use JB's (mostly modern players), and i like their sound, i was wondering what BK sounded closest, i like the handmade quality etc
I probably should of included all this in my first post
I like the sound of this band - www.myspace.com/setyourgoals , the song mutiny, they use JB's (most probably) through a dual rectifier
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I already have a Rebel Yell in my Gibson SG X
I have a couple of SG-X's and I'm going to replace the pickups eventually. Just wondering if the RY works well in the SG-X, and did you wire it for coil-splitting? (I've changed mine to series/parallel)
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I'd go with the HolyDiver, im thinking of dumping a HD into a strat i've got my eye on as an alternateive to my other strat..
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I already have a Rebel Yell in my Gibson SG X
I have a couple of SG-X's and I'm going to replace the pickups eventually. Just wondering if the RY works well in the SG-X, and did you wire it for coil-splitting? (I've changed mine to series/parallel)
Yeah it works well, plenty of power, rich mids etc
i didn't bother with coil tapping or anything, i just will never use it, i'm too much of a straight up player. POWERCORE!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/adammato/Gear/IMG_3068.jpg)
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This single post has actually given me a huge insight into what pick ups i want to go for next, and not to mention an interesting read to boot.
Cheers for all the informantion, and i hope you find your pick up.
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Thanks for the SG-X pic, adammato. Mine are the slightly later type with a pickguard. Excellent little guitars!
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this will be down to the asymmetrical wind and scatterwinding too.
The early JBs I've tested-one of which was Phil's- have all been symmetrically wound, part of the SD philosophy-which accounts for the way it behaves in the high end.
Hi all...I'm new here and noticed this mentioned more than a few times. What's the difference between symmetrical and asymmetrical winding?
It sounds like one has balanced coils (wound to the same specs?) and the other not, but what's the difference in terms of tone, response, etc.? What advantages does each type of winding offer?
Thanks in advance!
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With symmetrical coils (the same number of turns each coil), the highs are rolled off more. Asymmetrical coils seem to have more 'air' and have highs which are almost like a single coil. The difference doesn't seem to have to be many turns.
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Simple answer this one, The Rebel Yell.
deg0ey, the JB is quite a damn fine pickup but not perfect thats probably why hes looking for a BK with similar tonal qualities.
:shock:
nah the bass is way too clear on the RY and it way more mids. Completely different boat.
I think it's the Holydiver (which I think is also brighter and not nearly as muddy which is a good thing... ie what the JB's supposed to be). The nailbomb is the appropriate magnet and output, but it's voiced much more evenly (and yes again has more mids and highs too, but not so much as the RY).
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I think the amusing thing here is that everyone is right :roll:
The thing that really makes me laugh on this forum is that everyone must have these massively expensive boutique amps which don't colour the sound of the pickups no matter what the settings are :roll:
Degoey is right, it is most useful to describe what sound you're after, especially with the JB which is pretty much the PAF of post eighties rock. The JB has been used by massively diverse acts to create massively diverse sounds, and as such there are several BK units which will approximate the sound of different JB using artists. The Crawler, Cold Sweat, Rebel Yell and Holydiver could all mimic a specific JB sound, so it's best to know what you mean by "sounds like a JB".
In terms of cold hard figures, the Holydiver is the closest in terms of construction and output though.
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I think the amusing thing here is that everyone is right :roll:
The thing that really makes me laugh on this forum is that everyone must have these massively expensive boutique amps which don't colour the sound of the pickups no matter what the settings are :roll:
Degoey is right, it is most useful to describe what sound you're after, especially with the JB which is pretty much the PAF of post eighties rock. The JB has been used by massively diverse acts to create massively diverse sounds, and as such there are several BK units which will approximate the sound of different JB using artists. The Crawler, Cold Sweat, Rebel Yell and Holydiver could all mimic a specific JB sound, so it's best to know what you mean by "sounds like a JB".
In terms of cold hard figures, the Holydiver is the closest in terms of construction and output though.
Hoorah, voice of reason.
I have always thought;
a. people recommend what they have
b. amp (and guitar) makes a HUGE difference in tone, apart from our different hearing
c. why try and get a sound of another pickup from a BKP (not necessarily this thread). BKP's are handmade beauties and very distinct in their own right. I do not believe Tim goes, hmmm dimebucker, how can I mimic that and put BKP on it?
Horses for courses and all that but asking for certain sounding tones or band/player tones is great but there are WAY too many things involved to get it 100%.
How many have been bleating here and on MANY other forums for a Master of Puppets tone? :roll: Spend about , ooh I dunno, £10,000+ (before worrying about Hetfields fingers) and you may get close. I LOVE my BKP's and intend to put em in every guitar. And YES I have asked in past for opinions on what would be good for a specific type of sound/tone, but too specific is just silly IMO.
Just buy ANY BKP's and weep in delight at your gorgeous tones/sounds :)
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why try and get a sound of another pickup from a BKP (not necessarily this thread). BKP's are handmade beauties and very distinct in their own right. I do not believe Tim goes, hmmm dimebucker, how can I mimic that and put BKP on it?
I totally agree with that (and with the rest of your post, and Sifu Ben's), of course Tim isn't setting out to make versions of other manufacturers' pickups. And if you want something that sounds exactly like a Gibson Dirty Fingers (or whatever), then buy a Dirty Fingers.
But, I also understand why people mention other pickups when trying to choose a BK, because it's a much better reference point than saying "I want Gary Moore's tone on Empty Rooms". At least they've (presumably) experienced those pickups in their own guitar through their own amp.
I have a guitar which has, at various times, been loaded with a 500T, 490T, 498T, Joe Barden Two/Tone, DiMarzio Tone Zone, MegaDrive and Fred. So I might say I want something similar to the Fred, but with a little more midrange push and some grunt in the bass like the MegaDrive. It's just a starting point, for me and anyone else who's tried the same pickups.
Just buy ANY BKP's and weep in delight at your gorgeous tones/sounds :)
I know that was just an off-the-cuff comment, but if it was that simple we wouldn't be here in this forum in the first place. :wink:
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I guess what I was getting at is, with the advent of internet and sites to hear music easily, most of us can check a song and give opinion on sound. It takes alot more to check what guitar was used, what pup was in that guitar, what amp was used, what mic was used, mixing deck yadda yadda.
Tim makes some amazing pups that can cover many tonal ranges and styles. Many (if not all) are named after a genre (to my understanding), but this I want a XYZ pup but made by BKP (well buy an XYZ and be happy or send to Tim for a rewind) or, I want to sound exactly like so and so, is just abit hard to advise and silly.
It was 'off the cuff' but I do believe (and NO am not sponsored by Tim, wish I was) that especially in the field of rock (big field this :)) a BKP can deliver the goods over and above most anything out there :)
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Here's my question: Is the Rebel Yell brighter than the Holy Diver or vice versa? The darker of the two will go into my quilt top Charvel.
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Here's my question: Is the Rebel Yell brighter than the Holy Diver or vice versa? The darker of the two will go into my quilt top Charvel.
The Rebel Yell is the brighter of the two, all things being equal.
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TO, thought you may know.
What is yours in again? A custom strat type right?
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M1 Tiger :) (which is actually going to get a Cold Sweat "soon" lol )
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...but this I want a XYZ pup but made by BKP (well buy an XYZ and be happy or send to Tim for a rewind) or, I want to sound exactly like so and so, is just abit hard to advise and silly.
I think essentially we're agreed. And of course the one essential ingredient the manufacturer/advisor can't factor in is the player. You could give me Stevie Ray Vaughan's "No.1" Strat and his entire army of amps, and I still wouldn't sound anything like him.
Wouldn't be able to bend the strings, for a start. :)
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M1 Tiger :) (which is actually going to get a Cold Sweat "soon" lol )
you change around ya pups as often as underwear bro :)
Good on ya!
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Here's my question: Is the Rebel Yell brighter than the Holy Diver or vice versa? The darker of the two will go into my quilt top Charvel.
The Rebel Yell is the brighter of the two, all things being equal.
Thanks brother!
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Degoey is right...
That's a first :lol: :drink:
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I think the amusing thing here is that everyone is right :roll:
The thing that really makes me laugh on this forum is that everyone must have these massively expensive boutique amps which don't colour the sound of the pickups no matter what the settings are :roll:
If you want an amp that wont color the sound of the pickups, then go buy a $3000 Mcintosh home audio amplifier and plug into that.
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If you want an amp that wont color the sound of the pickups, then go buy a $3000 Mcintosh home audio amplifier and plug into that.
?!
McIntosh is very coloured!
There's tonnes of more neutral playback equipment out there!
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I think the amusing thing here is that everyone is right :roll:
The thing that really makes me laugh on this forum is that everyone must have these massively expensive boutique amps which don't colour the sound of the pickups no matter what the settings are :roll:
If you want an amp that wont color the sound of the pickups, then go buy a $3000 Mcintosh home audio amplifier and plug into that.
Should think for $3,000 these days ya could recreate the lunar landing :wink: , don't make it less 'coloured though does it :wink:
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If you want an amp that wont color the sound of the pickups, then go buy a $3000 Mcintosh home audio amplifier and plug into that.
?!
McIntosh is very coloured!
There's tonnes of more neutral playback equipment out there!
I used Mcintosh because they are the most neutral name that's recognizable by some people. And they really aren't that colored either, just in the lows as they have more lows than anything else out there. My point is that guitar amps are not neutral at all. I could have said Krell, happy now?
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was'nt that a B rated scifi movie? :lol:
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I used Mcintosh because they are the most neutral name that's recognizable by some people. And they really aren't that colored either, just in the lows as they have more lows than anything else out there. My point is that guitar amps are not neutral at all. I could have said Krell, happy now?
LOL, no ... I don't like Krell, either. ;)
I'm just havin fun, dude. Don't take it so personal!
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was'nt that a B rated scifi movie? :lol:
Close. The Krell were aliens in a B movie.
It was also the street name for cocaine.
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meant Krull :P
darn, aint funny iffin ya got splain it ;)
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Oh, I forgot to mention ...
Yes, I agree. In terms of absolute neutrality, guitar amps fall far short!!
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I used Mcintosh because they are the most neutral name that's recognizable by some people. And they really aren't that colored either, just in the lows as they have more lows than anything else out there. My point is that guitar amps are not neutral at all. I could have said Krell, happy now?
LOL, no ... I don't like Krell, either. ;)
I'm just havin fun, dude. Don't take it so personal!
You don't like anything. You're going straight to hell!
...so am I ;)
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meant Krull
Oh, yeah: pretty terrible film :P :lol: but I dig the soundtrack. I got the double-CD version! 8)
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Krull The Conquerer was it?!
I miss the early 80s when sword and sorcery flicks were everywhere, D&D 1st Edition just came out, even Dio was affected (Check out the vid for Holy Diver) in the wake of Conan The Barbarian.
Anyway ... back on topic!
I disagree that different BKs can represent different 'types' of the JB's sound.
However, as I can't really prove otherwise, I'll leave it at that.
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Krull The Conquerer was it?!
Nah, that was Kull the Conqueror with Kevin Sorbo and Tia Carrere.
Krull was a 1983 British film - but with an American "star" (Ken Marshall), which the makers apparently believed would help sell it to you boys. I don't think the plan worked.
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What's the holydrivers tone like compared to the Rebel Yell?
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how did we come from pickup discussion to B scifi flicks?