Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: JamesHealey on September 04, 2006, 10:16:23 AM

Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: JamesHealey on September 04, 2006, 10:16:23 AM
Im interested in buying "the" amp.. u know the last one u'll ever buy because theres nothing better in existance?

my Current choices are as follows..

Bogner Ecstasy Classic -£2799 (Seriously Pricey!)
Bogner Shiva -£1399 (EL34, I like and more affordable)

Also I would like a bit more information on Splawn, Koch and others that I should consider from you guys.. so yea keep em coming what do you think is the best EL34 powered amp in the world?

Ps, I dont like 6L6 not enough midrange detail.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: hunter on September 04, 2006, 10:42:29 AM
I like both, the Classic and the Shiva. Splawns are great but sound very 80s metal (at least on all the clips I heard so far).

Also keep in mind that an amp like the Shiva will give you not only an awesome distorted tone, but also the most amazing clean sound, really 3D, dynamic, punchy and "nice to the ear".

Indeed the Classic is awfully expensive.

It's hard to test any Splawns in Europe, there are no dealers that stock them.

If I were you I'd try as many amps as I can and decide based on that experience. If a certain amp make like Splawn, Mojave, Roccaforte etc. isn't available for testing, don't think about it. You don't wanna spend more than 1,000 GBP on something you haven't verified.

My own decision making process included testing several Mesas, Soldanos, Diezels, Engls, Bogners, VHTs, Kochs, Marshalls, Randall (wanted to try the Egnater too, but was a 450KM drive that I didn't wanna do for it).

Don't hurry it and only put the money on the desk once you're absolutely sure you are in "last amp ever" territory.

You don't wanna arrive home and hear the amp first time in your accustomed environment realising that you just can't get it to sound perfect ...
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: maliciousteve on September 04, 2006, 12:11:55 PM
You could look into Cornfords. I've played through the Carrera and i love it. If it was loud enough for band practices i would already have it.

I've heard amazing clips of Cornford MK50's and the new 2 channel MK50
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: hunter on September 04, 2006, 12:13:42 PM
Quote from: maliciousteve

I've heard amazing clips of Cornford MK50's and the new 2 channel MK50


Link please  :roll:
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: maliciousteve on September 04, 2006, 12:55:35 PM
calm it love

 http://www.myspace.com/cornfordrecords
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: hunter on September 04, 2006, 01:21:20 PM
I think this guy could play a Peavey Bandit and still sound awesome!
Thx for the tip!!!
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: March on September 04, 2006, 02:15:52 PM
Guthrie is a freak of a player. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that he is probably the best guitar player on the planet, the guy can do anything!
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Bainzy on September 04, 2006, 02:26:36 PM
For that kind of money, I'd get a vintage Marshall  8)
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Muso on September 04, 2006, 02:31:37 PM
Guthrie Govan, I don't get it? Im not denying hes good but "best player on the planet"? please don't take this is me dissin him, I'm just amazed that hes got all these people calling him awesome when this is his first album and its not exactley ground breaking.
By the way I owned a Cornford Harlequin and I honestly didn't rate the overdrive channel, the clean channel tho very the best Ive played.

I would definately like to check out the Mojave, seems silly expensive though. The power damping thing makes it really appealing as well.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: maliciousteve on September 04, 2006, 02:48:04 PM
Quote from: Muso
Guthrie Govan, I don't get it? Im not denying hes good but "best player on the planet"? please don't take this is me dissin him, I'm just amazed that hes got all these people calling him awesome when this is his first album and its not exactley ground breaking.
By the way I owned a Cornford Harlequin and I honestly didn't rate the overdrive channel, the clean channel tho very the best Ive played.

I would definately like to check out the Mojave, seems silly expensive though. The power damping thing makes it really appealing as well.


The Harlequin is meant for more clean/slightly overdriven tones for things like Blues/Rock and Jazz. But i've heard good things with a boost pedal in the front of the amp.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Bird on September 04, 2006, 03:06:03 PM
Has anyone tried the Bogner Classic? Wow that is one expensive amp, does it sound like every penny of the asking price  :?:
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: hunter on September 04, 2006, 03:13:07 PM
It does sound awesome, but far too many controls for my taste and I was unwilling to spend that amount.

But believe me, you can very easily sqeeze out of this world harmonics out of it, and it always sounds and feels pleasant.

With A-A/B, old/new and half power switch, this is a tone monster. Luckily the classic has a few less switches than the normal 101B.

I didn't find its clean tone on par with the Shiva, but the Plexi Mode with the boost on ... THANK YOU !!!!

I honestly think there is no better amp with similar versatility.

I don't need all the bells and whistles though and it's big and weighs a ton, that's why I took its younger sister, sweet little Shiva :)
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: March on September 04, 2006, 03:14:52 PM
In a word... 'yes'!

Having said that, the 'super' amp market is at it's most prominent right now. There really is choice for everyone.

Having said that, I tried a Cornford MK50 MkII the other week and despite wanting to like it I could not. Personally I think the Bogner is a better amp but that's just my preference.

The Classic has just been reviewed in Guitarist to great aclaim and Bogner has always had a reputation of being up there with the very best.

Personally after trying a Ecstasy 101B recently I don't want anything else. To my ears this is the best amp I have ever heard, the Plexi channel coming close to the sounds put out by my early 70's Marshall SL. Bogners are worth every penny IMHO.

Having said that, Two Rock, Splawn, Cornford, VHT, Bogner, Hughes & Kettner, Custom Audio Electronics, Rivera, Mesa, Engl et all have all recently staked claims with their latest efforts in the 'best of the best' debate. To be honest, all this means better choice for the consumer as their is almost certainly something out there to suit your needs.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Dakine on September 04, 2006, 03:44:11 PM
Single Rectifier Mesa Boogie (back switchable for 6l6 or EL34). All tones could ever need IMO.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Bird on September 04, 2006, 03:52:31 PM
Johnny Mac has a Koch Powetone 2 and the clips I've heard sound amazing. I also tried one out and it's a monster. For the short time I played it I'd describe it as kind of between a Marshall and Mesa. It doesn't have that "grainy" distortion of a rectifier, but more grit than Marshall distortion. I'm guessing you could easily tweak it to sound more like one or the other. Clean sounds were great as well.  :twisted:
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: dave_mc on September 04, 2006, 03:56:42 PM
where are you in the UK, james? you really need to try everything you can, as what  some people like, you may hate, etc. just to add to what's originally been mentioned, the thd flexi 50 is nice- worth trying out in addition to what's been suggested, not a "go by this now!" kind of advice.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Dakine on September 04, 2006, 04:04:02 PM
^ saw a v.cheap THD on da 'bay recently. VERY nice amp so I hear.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Bird on September 04, 2006, 04:40:29 PM
Anyone tried the Diezel VH4 :?:
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: JamesHealey on September 04, 2006, 05:39:28 PM
I live in leeds, electrosound in doncaster is supposed to have a fantastic selection

we've got 2 huge soundcontrols and vintage specialists music ground in leeds, great if u want a marshall or a vintage marshall or a marshall or a line 6 that emulates a marshall or marshall flavoured cornflakes..

but yea u get the point.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: dave_mc on September 04, 2006, 11:16:58 PM
Quote from: Bird
Anyone tried the Diezel VH4 :?:


yeah, it's very nice. dear, though, and the cleans aren't that great (for the price).

james- can you get to soundsgreat, near manchester? i haven't been able to make it there myself yet, but going by the website, they have a lot of nice stuff (and all in the one place too!)...

www.soundsgreatmusic.com
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Bainzy on September 05, 2006, 12:34:34 AM
Why are amps like Bogners and such actually so expensive here? They're just the simple Marshall circuit with a few switchable extra gain stages, one or two component tweaks and a few changes to the EQ circuit  :roll:
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: hunter on September 05, 2006, 05:05:35 AM
Well I think they are as expensive as in US (or better EUR = $ price) except for second hand, where you get much better deals in US, maybe because more people sell them.

Differences to Marshall are hand built and smaller series and higher spec components (compare Bogners to handwired Marshalls rather than a TSL).

And then for sure it's Marketing. Price and cost are only related to the extend that price should be higher than cost. HOW MUCH higher depends on what consumers are willing to pay. I mean look at ZVEX or Fulltone, do you think their components are 300$ per unit?

 :wink:
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Twinfan on September 05, 2006, 08:11:46 AM
Quote from: dave_mc

james- can you get to soundsgreat, near manchester? i haven't been able to make it there myself yet, but going by the website, they have a lot of nice stuff (and all in the one place too!)...

www.soundsgreatmusic.com


They're my local shop and they have some nice stuff, but not a lot.  I'd ring them first before you may a trip and check what they have in.  If you need me to check anything out for you, let me know.  I go in there a bit  ;)
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: dave_mc on September 05, 2006, 07:15:59 PM
^ ah, ok, cool, i was going to maybe try to get a trip to there at some stage (next time I'm in england) as there's a lot of stuff they have on their site that you can't get to try anywhere else- I'll contact them first now. Thanks for the heads-up!

:drink:
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Twinfan on September 05, 2006, 08:00:52 PM
Nay probs  :)
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: tommyfobia on September 05, 2006, 08:09:19 PM
Give me first refusal on the carlton mate... :D
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: JamesHealey on September 05, 2006, 09:30:31 PM
haha thom, im afraid thats not being sold EVER!

The carlton has one of the best clean tones and lead guitar sounds i've ever heard.

But even with a pickup as tight as the Miracle Man or the looser VHII for some unbeknown reason it sounds tighter in the Carlton.. it gets a bit too thick sounding and wont thin out.. it just sounds too big for some things.

But yea the problem with the Carlton is the tones arent very "natural on the lead channel" and the crunch sounds are absolutly horrendous!! but it does the whole big Mesa/Boogie Mark IV lead tone thing better than the MkIV.. which is great for a 300 quid amp but i want something really versitile i can use for gigging, the carlton doesnt channel switch without changing it on the front (footswitches dont work??), it's pretty unreliable it's unfortunatly not road worthy at all although great for recording lead guitar.. which i'll keep it for at that price i paid.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: tommyfobia on September 06, 2006, 09:46:24 PM
Quote from: JamesHealey
haha thom, im afraid thats not being sold EVER!

The carlton has one of the best clean tones and lead guitar sounds i've ever heard.

But even with a pickup as tight as the Miracle Man or the looser VHII for some unbeknown reason it sounds tighter in the Carlton.. it gets a bit too thick sounding and wont thin out.. it just sounds too big for some things.

But yea the problem with the Carlton is the tones arent very "natural on the lead channel" and the crunch sounds are absolutly horrendous!! but it does the whole big Mesa/Boogie Mark IV lead tone thing better than the MkIV.. which is great for a 300 quid amp but i want something really versitile i can use for gigging, the carlton doesnt channel switch without changing it on the front (footswitches dont work??), it's pretty unreliable it's unfortunatly not road worthy at all although great for recording lead guitar.. which i'll keep it for at that price i paid.


But let me know  if your 300 quid short of a shiva :wink:  :D
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: hunter on October 15, 2006, 01:02:21 PM
Hi James,

I might have found what is just right for your needs.

Peters Amplification build 2 channel amps with your choice of 4 available channel designs.

My favourite is Halo & Gryphon, as it gives Plexi like cleans and EVH mayhem leads. It also seems they are good at any volume.

Check em out, you'll be blown away.
http://www.petersamplification.com/
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: HTH AMPS on October 15, 2006, 01:42:45 PM
Those Peters amps do sound very nice indeed, especially the cleans.  No prices on the site though (be afraid, heh).

If you have serious cash to spend, I tried a Bogner Uberschall a few weeks back that was just awesome - cleans were every bit as good as the mind-crushing overdrive.  What also impressed me was that the OD channel will do vintage rock with equal authenticity as flooring the gain for full shred.

 :twisted:
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: hunter on October 15, 2006, 02:04:05 PM
They do have prices, 50W is 2250$
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Johnny Mac on October 16, 2006, 07:10:06 PM
www.koch-amps.com

Also harmony central.

Anything over 2 grand for a head and cab is ott imho
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: fps_dean on October 18, 2006, 09:02:41 AM
Hey James,

How about a Roccaforte High Gain 100 or a Custom 80 (cleaner)?  I'm not sure about the prices in the UK, but here they are about the same price as the Shiva head and cheaper than the rest and at least every bit as good.

Or you can wait for the new one to come out which will be a dual channel 100 watt head, combining the High Gain 100 and Custom 80 preamps.

I'll be in the market for one of these fairly soon...
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: fps_dean on October 18, 2006, 09:14:52 AM
Quote from: Bainzy
Why are amps like Bogners and such actually so expensive here? They're just the simple Marshall circuit with a few switchable extra gain stages, one or two component tweaks and a few changes to the EQ circuit  :roll:


The Shiva isn't too bad if it's what you're after, at least in USD.  Of course, they hold used value a little bit better than Marshalls and are less common as well (so you can't get them used cheap) but if you look at new prices....

Marshall 1959SLP PCB - $2100.
Marshall 1959SLP Handwired - $3000.
Bogner Shiva - $2200.
Bogner Uberschall - $2800.
ENGL Powerball - $1800.
Roccaforte Custom 80 - $2200.
Roccaforte High Gain 100 - $2500.
Other Bogners - $4000+ (I wouldn't even look at these!).

Of course Marshalls are both cheaper and more common there.  Even old handwired Marshalls are cheaper here.... it's not that Bogners are so expensive there, it's that Marshalls are so cheap there.

If you aren't too much of a prude to rule out buying anything used however (oh no, god forbids buying used gear), old Marshalls heads can still be bought from as low as $800usd in perfect working order and not too beat up if you wait, and $1500usd quite commonly... that's a no-brainer.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Dakine on October 18, 2006, 11:13:28 AM
American goods are cheaper in America, European goods are cheaper in Europe, doh.

A car has engine,4 wheels,chassis etc. So why is a Mercedes more than a Ford?

Quality control, components, craftsmanship, innovation etc.

Many ask why are BKP's expensive. Same thing (just different figures).

Who cares what it costs, if it is worth it to you, sound,features ya want, go for it I say.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: dave_mc on October 18, 2006, 12:29:19 PM
^ seconded.

some people say "paying  more than $X for a pickup is a waste" or "paying more than £Y for an amp is a waste".

That's that person's opinion, just like if I said "engls are the best amps ever, if you disagree you're wrong!" I'd be laughed out of the forum.

If YOU can hear the difference, and can afford it, and it's worth it to you, go for it.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Skybone on October 18, 2006, 06:57:57 PM
Looking at getting a new amp in the not too distant future as well.

Choices so far are either a Marshall 2204, a 1987 Plexi, Laney GH50, or the current favourite is a Matamp 1224 mkII.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: Dakine on October 18, 2006, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Skybone
Looking at getting a new amp in the not too distant future as well.

Choices so far are either a Marshall 2204, a 1987 Plexi, Laney GH50, or the current favourite is a Matamp 1224 mkII.


me too but wish more stores carried wider rnage to try so endless emails/calls and journey's were not involved :( welcome back to UK huh (though in truth you gotta source alot in US too, just seem's more choice usually).
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: _tom_ on October 18, 2006, 07:40:11 PM
Approx. 40 days till I get my GH50L (yes I counted :lol: ).. got the cab all ready and waiting for it now  8) Just wish there was somewhere local I can try one, no shops got back to me, but I've only heard good clips of it so I think I'm just gonna go for it :D
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: hunter on October 18, 2006, 09:47:25 PM
GH50L is a good basis, really good.

Lots of depth and oomph, just a pedal before and you're settled.
Title: New Amp Choices?
Post by: _tom_ on October 18, 2006, 10:01:23 PM
Quote from: hunter
GH50L is a good basis, really good.

Lots of depth and oomph, just a pedal before and you're settled.


I was hoping I didnt need a boost, I heard it has enough gain in the amp for the kinda stuff I want to play (which is blues rock such as Free, Gov't Mule etc, up to classic metal such as Priest, Maiden etc).

I've found that my 2x12 is infact 8 ohm meaning I dont have to buy a new hotplate :D Plugged into it with the Fender today, it sounds really nice, big and warm but not muffled, but doesnt have the harsh treble of the stock fender speaker :D