Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: sambo on September 08, 2006, 04:59:03 PM
-
ok so the H&K is great... BUT there is a kinda problem ( i say problem but i guess its more of just a limitation) to its sound... the 4x12 gives it plenty of beef, and for chugging chords its superb... same for classic rock riffs such as Whole Lotta Love, with an overdriven mid-gain kinda sound...
HOWEVER.... try and play any kinda smooth lead/riff ,... and the grind/graininess which makes the chords sound so great messes up the sound completely... and playing riffs with a metal(ish) tone is pretty much essential for me band-wise... and when playing riffs on the H&K at the moment, it just sounds wrong... for example, my crate has the saturation/metal-esque texture im after... but it of couse it has nowhere near the beef or harmonic richness of the H&K... so basically i need to get that saturation/metal-like smoothness into the H&K and ill be set...
so is there any kinda pedal that would kinda smoothen out the sound? im not talking smooth it out as in less gain or whatever... i just mean the actual texture of the sound... like maybe even a distortion/overdrive pedal to add a load more saturation? i doubt thats anything called a saturation pedal? maybe a boost? a compressor? sustainer? EQ?
i was never totally sure on the definition of sustain in guitar terms... maybe its lack of that?.. or maybe as a result of having not much saturation, there isnt a great deal of sustain? bah... i dunno
and just to be clear again... i guess you could say im just after something that will give me a metal-tone...
im a bit lost...
any help would be great,
cheers.
-
Sounds like you need a compressor.
-
ahh rightie... thanks ben. so what exactly will that do sonically? i mean like umm... what is the definition of what a compressor is/does if you see what i mean..
cheers.
-
A compressor 'squishes' the sound to smooth it out.
-
ooooooo! getcha, any units in particular you recommend?
-
:D A compresser enables you to get an even sound. When on you set it so no matter how hard you hit the strings or softly the compresser limits or boosts depending, the sound so its allways at the same volume level. They also have sustainer controls which enable you to extend the sounds out slightly longer before the sound fades.
Ben will no the tech explanation !
:D 8)
-
cool thanks Jt,
im gonna need to try and test one with the H&K somehow...
what would you guys recommend to get a more metal/smooth tone?
i guess the terms metal and smooth dont really go together... but i hope you get what im saying, its hard to explain...
would buying a distortion/overdrive/boost pedal get me closer to a smoothed out/metal tone from my gritty/grindy/rough sound? or do you think a compressor will be enough?
if i could record clips i would but its kinda impossible,
cheers again guys.
-
Sambo,
a compressor will be a good start but IMO you will not immediately hear a big difference. You should in sustain but the nuances are subtle to start. BUT, ya could ALWAYS use one. I have a Marshall 'Edward the Compressor' here (discontinued I think) and is great.
Maybe, a bet, as it's sounds like you are saying the 'lead' tone is harsh, you could try either a boost or overdrive. Or run a distortion in front of the clean channel if that good. Or, to build up DEF. useful building blocks (like a compressor) get an EQ like was telling you about.
Hit me up for any more I can help bud.
Nick
-
mm thats what i was worried about... the comp. not making THAT much of a difference... it probably would help though i guess...
i think a distortion/overdrive will be the first thing.. if its still not where i wanna be... maybe a comp/EQ after that as well... ill be selling both my other amps soon anyway so should have at LEAST £200 available for pedals.
Nick wots your view of Dist/Overd. pedals? got any ones to recommend? im useless pedal-wise...
-
hmm i guess thinking about it a bit more... althuogh the rhythm-sounds are good for classic rock+ a little more.. they could still do with a little 'liquifying' kinda thing... to get the heavier sounds for lower-down riffing... if you gettt me
for people who dont have a clue what im on about...
an exmaple of the top off my head (cause its what im listening to now)... is Halo by Soil...
-
Sam,
ya got a good amp now, think LONG term.
Pedals 'can' be for poseurs!
USE the amp.
Work it!
An EQ and a Compressor will be GREAT long term investments!
As for a OD/Dist. pedal, well I have a HBE Power Screamer, but it's kinda unnecessary with the Mesa. (or ENGL come to that).
I would not go £££££££££££££. A good ole Boss SD-1 is a great pedal, not MASSIZE overpowering gain, more smooth with a HOT aftertaste :)
It's what Mr.Wylde uses BTW.
It's cheap and been around forever.
Gimme more questions and will try to answer elaborate more.
Nick
-
haha okokok, DS-1? not the orange one? oh god not the orange one?!
hmmm okok well we've talked EQs with the Kerry King, what about Compressors? any examples? i would have no idea where to start... really wouldnt...
-
Sam,
you only have a 3 band EQ shared on a 2 channel head right?
The ENGL has more but STILL I benefitted 100% with a 10band EQ in the loop.
You will (should) be amazed at the difference just that will make.
-
yer 3 band on a 2 channel thats right...
hmmm hearing is believing though... what exactly did it change? ive never tried an EQ pedal...
-
what are your current settings incl gain, vol, presence, bass middle treble in the lead channel?
I know what you're talking about, which is pretty much a question of how an amp is designed tone wise but quite often it can be smoothened with some different setting up ...
-
ive tried pretty much everything lol... i have managed to improve it a lot... but still not anywhere near where i want..
i usually have gain aroun 1-2 o clock ish... bass 12 ish, mids about 8, and treble at about 2-3... thats my average anyway...
-
Sam,
what hunter says is right. NOT trying to sound patronising but this is ALOT of amp for you after what ya had before. PLAY with it alot more.
I find the EQ limiting, so a 10 band will amaze you.
To 'cream' up the tone about a chorus is good.
OD/Dist. is insane less in front of a clean channel IMO, and am pretty sure of your music and would be overboard.
IMO, that amp is abit of an untamed beast like the ENGL.
A Sep. EQ. will help alot, as will a compressor and a chorus. Dunno if OD/Dist. is where ya need to be looking.
Again, MAKE THE AMP WORK :twisted:
-
what if you bring mids up and treble down, e.g. try bass 2, mid 1, treb 12 ? Try it in band context and see whether it works out. I never played the H&K, but these kinda changes improved it for me on the Rivera and the Soldano, which were both kinda tight gain wise. (as opposed to the 5150 or the Shiva)
-
:lol:
hmm okay, id agree its untamed beast i guess... but im just unconvinced on the EQ department... i guess ill just have to trust you that it'll make the differenece...
and you can refund me if it doesnt work.. :D
-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/marshall-edward-the-compressor-stompbox_W0QQitemZ170026527879QQihZ007QQcategoryZ22669QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
My compressor, nothing booteek but WORKS.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MXR-KFK-10-BAND-EQ_W0QQitemZ270024849234QQihZ017QQcategoryZ22669QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
EQ I use (with ENGL), DEF. works!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Boss-CH-1-Super-Chorus-Pedal-Classic-stompbox-effects_W0QQitemZ220023924993QQihZ012QQcategoryZ22669QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Perfectly good chorus am thinking of.
Nick
-
take a road trip and I can SHOW you and you WILL believe :)
-
Hunter- cheers ill try that in a sec mate,
and im listening to the Crunch Box clips- very nice indeed!
Nick, ill take a look at those links now.
-
take a road trip and I can SHOW you and you WILL believe :)
you sound like a bloody preacher... are you sure your not Kerry King in disguise? hmmmm
-
Sambo - I reckon you should try a couple of pedals. Behringer do a cheap range (£15 a pedal I think!!) and you could get a Tubescreamer type and an EQ pedal for £30. Minimal cost but a very versatile combo. The cheap Danelectro pedals are also good, but cost a little bit more than the Behringers. I have a Danelectro EQ and it's a great little unit. Try the cheap stuff to see what you need, then get the good stuff later, but only if you need it.
Hope that helps!
-
I could'nt give a squirrel poop what EQ it is, just thats cheap for a 10 band.
Just telling ya, as most will, EQ is a MAJOR tone shaper. And thus can do wonders.
-
:lol: fair enough, i might just go for it...
and by the way, be careful about what kinda suggestions you make regarding me visiting your area, as i may hold you to it one day!
:twisted: :lol:
and twinfan- thats a very good idea indeed actually cheers.
-
Hope ya do!
Will stop some of your insessant ramblings here ROFLMAO :)
-
Meh - I'd just slam it with more preamp gain to get that sound, that's what metal bands generally do. Adding an extra gain stage to my Plexi switches between the two tones you describe Sam (the one now and the one you want).
-
:evil: :lol: :evil:
if you carry on insulting me like that ill be leaving your residents with one surplus dog... :twisted:
-
SAM
Have you not still got that Line6 floor unit????????
-
Bainzy- sounds verrry interesting.... but the how the hell would i do that? im not an amp guru such as yourself
-
which one??!?!?! Uber Metal or tha POD?
-
POD
-
yer course, whats your plan?
-
Turn off the amp sims, put the bloody thing in front of amp and play with it's inbuilt pedals!
Save ALOT of wasted money :roll:
-
hmmm i guess so.... could sound like utter balls though... hmm ill give it a go...
-
Sam, the pedal sound inside 'should' give you enough idea (know the BOSS GT does) to let ya know what pedal/effect you want need. And as ya own it, IT'S FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sheesh :roll:
-
:lol: alright sir, keep your Texas goatee on...
-
well, for goodness sakes young'n.
Sam, you have oodles of sounds in that thing to play around for weeks with. THEN you can decide what 'standalone' pedals will get ya where ya want.
BIG money saver I reckon.
Darn you owe me some brewski's when old enough to buy em :)
-
:lol: :lol: :lol:
okok, i guess your right... ill experiment and see what sound im after... although i dunno what in-built standalone stuff it has regarding EQs/compressors... but i shall find out..
and i hope you can wait 2 years and 3 months for them beers...
-
darn, feel REAL old now, esp. today *sigh*
-
:lol:
ahh cheer up grandad... youve got a mesa after all!
-
yeah but another year and all is depressing
-
its not.... your BIRTHDAY is it??!?! :o :o :o :o
-
and i hope you can wait 2 years and 3 months for them beers...
yeesh reading that just scared the living cr@p out of me, i've only got 3 months left :o
-
:( no fair
-
might be, if I still counted them that is :P
-
:o :o :D :D :D
happy b-day man!!!!!
:o :D :o :D
-
^ wow, that right there shows how young lil sambo really is...
-
No Comment
Thanks
-
yup :(
-
^^ :lol:
ah must suck though to be spending it alone... well not ALONE.. but with family over in US still... too bad mate, :(
-
and THAT is what the pub is for :D:D:D
-
actually hate a BIG nonsense, prefer peace and quiet, always have, so NO worries there :)
-
:lol: :lol: :lol:
ok ladies... im late for a geetar lesson... toodleoo...
happy b-day once again sir nick.
-
^^ ahhh goodgood! nice to be appreciated though of course...
talk later.
-
does anybody else seem to think that there should be an award for the highest number of legit posts in a short time ??? somehow i think Sambo here would win it hands-down, it's a bit scary the number of 'Topic Reply Notification' emails i received in the last 5 mins
:o
:D
-
Doesn't that Line 6 floor show thing have the FX Junkie package - that has model of the MXR Dynacomp (i.e. Red Compressor) and the Boss CS1 (Blue Compressor)
By the way - I have a EH English Muffn - it really does that warm od tone boost thing really well, in fact the the HBE Power Screamer sounds dark and squished in comparison. Now the EM and PS together (with the PS providing the distortion and EM providing the boost) is seriously good :D
-
and i hope you can wait 2 years and 3 months for them beers...
yeesh reading that just scared the living cr@p out of me, i've only got 3 months left :o
mehehe 2 months for me :D
Oh yeah, for what you're after I reckon a tubescreamer or similar would do the job, thats what I use my behringer TO800 for, nice cheap version of a 'screamer :)
-
yes, i think an overdrive pedal is just what Sam wants. just to add that fuzzy edge to the distortion, although it can end up being very noisy. if you can use the effects only from the POD, try the tubescreamer model, it's not a big distortion pedal on it's own, but to tip an already driven amp into meltdown it's perfect! although i also use a marshall guv'nor for a more aggressive (and noisier!) brand of mayhem.
also, try using the POD as a volume boost by setting it's output level higher, just to see will a boost pedal have the kind of effect you're after. the POD might not give you exactly the sounds you want, but it will give you a good idea of what the real thing will sound like and show you what type of pedal to go for.
-
Elliot- just looked at the POD, and yes your exactly right- the red compressor and blue compressor are on there.
and cheers blue and tom, ill try what you suggested (blue) with the POD, and Tubescreamer sounds like its definately worth checking out...