Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Antag on September 18, 2006, 12:45:19 PM
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The Engl Screamer has sorely tempted me to do something I've never done before: buy an amp without actually seeing it & playing it myself.
So I have a few questions for those of you who have owned one:
1: Just how much gain does it have on a lead channel? Andy RV's excellent Nailbomb clip (http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4796) pretty much answered this (i.e. "enough" :lol:) but I'm seeking re-assurance that I can get an absolutely face-melting metal sound from it. Particularly interested in the opinions of those who have had both a Screamer & a Mesa Rectifier.
2: If you dial in your ideal lead sound, how usable are the clean & crunch sounds without having to adjust the controls? Part of the attraction with the screamer is getting the Z5 footboard & being able to switch between a clean, crunch & metal tone at the touch of a button.
Thanks in advance for any opinions... :)
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^ i haven't owned one, but I've tried one several times. I'll get the ball rolling, but obviously listen more to the guys who actually own one.
1) it has plenty of gain. perhaps more than a recto, in terms of pure gain. the rectos, though, have a lot of lower mids, which tend to make it sound "heavy", without the need for as much gain- the engls are a bit brighter in tone- think megadeth tone, as opposed to mesa, which is more of a modern metallica tone.
2) it's a compromise. not as much as you'd expect, since each channel is voiced individually, but there's not doubt, there's a little compromise there.
I'd look into a genz benz el diablo too (in addition to the screamer, and perhaps a mesa f30), they're all roughly in similar price bands. of course, if you can't get to try them...
:drink:
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2) it's a compromise. not as much as you'd expect, since each channel is voiced individually, but there's not doubt, there's a little compromise there.
Yeah, I kind of guessed it would be a compromise & don't expect it to be as flexible as a Powerball (or any of the 3/4 channel heads on the market with separate eq & gain for every channel) - but are all 4 sounds basically usable?
On my Rectifier, I have an excellent high gain sound & decent clean, but nothing "in between" without playing around with the settings: If I just flick the "clean" voice to "pushed" there's a HUGE jump in volume & a very harsh sound from my ideal clean eq & gain settings. Likewise, if I flick the "modern" hi gain voice to "vintage" the sound gets a bit muddier with a tiny bit less gain & volume, but it's not really a big enough change. Plus the voice switches aren't foot-switchable :(
I guess what I'm asking is whether the Screamer really is a 4 channel amp, or a 2 channel amp that you can get a variety of sounds from?
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I have both, ENGL Screamer 1/2 stack and Mesa.
The ENGL has enough gasin to kill small animals/children. It need's some taming though. For this a bought a 10 band EQ, all better now :)
Seriously good amp, just VERY wild and overpowering!
It is, imo, not close to as organic as the Mesa. TBH I have not given the ENGL much love at all after getting the Mesa. However, it's aplication is somewhat different.
The Mesa is easy to dial in all kinds of tones. The ENGL need's to be chastised with a bullwhip often, but boy does it reward when taken roughly by the balls :twisted:
The ENGL is DEF. 4 channels (but really with my added EQ). I can be ok without but once I added the EQ,OMG!
The channels are quite defined, but there again I find none of the 'issues' you state with my Mesa.
Anyway, hope this helps.
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hoi
The Screamer is great, the shared EQ not really a problem, although (as Dakine says) an eq pedal would provide some more options.
It has enough gain for most people, id agree with the Megadeth comparison!
It doesnt sound like anything other than an ENGL, its just a great sounding rock and metal amp :)
I have a combo and the big footswitch...90% set on looking to sell both together as i'm never home alone anymore so i cant really use it, and i dont gig or have a practice space anymore.. so i'm back to using my GuitarPort and headphones :(
Plus i have a big car insurance\tax\mot bill in next couple of months so cash is good :P
Its the 2nd best amp i've ever owned, the BEST was the Fireball, but i didnt have the room to keep a cab\amp and downsized to the Screamer... the Screamer is way more versatile, but it cant quite match the Fireball for all out face melting attack and gain (for this you need a POWERBALL).. then again the Fireball cant match the Screamer for more refined rock sounds :lol:
Best all round amp in the price range imo, especially 2nd hand :)
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I have a screamer and have tried many dual recs.
There is more than enough gain on the screamer for anything. I play...errr...extreme metal with the gain on 6.
However its a very different character to a mesa. Its not as dark and throaty, its much more open and wet. I've found mesas can lean toward a hissy high end: the screamer is fatter and round. Its low ends tighter and its mids are more natural. The mesa will give you a better classic scooped tone, if thats your bag.
Dual recs cant touch screamer cleans and rock tones, though....but you didnt ask, I suppose :P .
The channels are all quite independantly voiced and the EQ isnt active, so you cant properly screw a sound in one channel by setting another; its not that powerfull an EQ.
Dakines on the money with an EQ with one. Same goes for all amps, imo though ;).
Most important of all: in my experience Mesas are quite quiet and their natural scoop lets them get lost in a mix. You spend all day EQing. A screamer absolutely comes alive in a mix!!!
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Can't vouch for dual Mesa's but can tell ya my single cuts like a laser (though read this/heard this many places post my purchase so guessing I got lucky in that respect).
It is (maybe) different for me to judge abit if we are primarily talking combo-stack. I played an ENGL combo alot but eventually got the stack. The added air moved, IMO, def. makes it more of a beast to tame.
TBH, GET one, very much doubt you will be sorry. I'm not and now have 2 very distinct amps to have pleasure and supply aural pain with :twisted:
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Guys,
So in your opinion, how close to the Fireball melt-your-face tone can the Screamer head get? I really love the Fireball tones I have heard, but as I am only 90% metalhead, I want to be able to do fusion tones as well. My current Triaxis or GSP2101 can get me fusion tones, but I will need to lose the Triaxis to finance the purchase of the new Engl head. So the question is, can the Screamer sound like a Fireball... or if not, can the Fireball with it's clean channel and an overdrive pedal in front get me the fusion distortion tones I want?
So many questions... and the money tree died a LONG LONG time ago.
Thanks,
Jeff
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Jeff, IMO, it's a compromise. The Screamer is more of a do it all but not as extremely (if that makes sense). ENGL's are ALL insane, just some more focussed on innihilation than others. The Screamer reacts very well to pedals I have shown it, although NOT a great pedal fan/user.
Shame I was not back in TX right now with gear, ya could come and annoy the neighbors :)
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Yea, the Screamer sounds like it's a Jack of all trades, master of none. Do you know how this differs from the Powerball? I mean, they are both 4 channels... yet one is like $900 more or something. Is it just that you have Eq for each channel on the PB, whereas the Screamer is shared EQ? Did you ever play a Powerball?
Yeah, it figures I find someone of like mind and they are half a world away. :)
Regs,
Jeff
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I wouldnt say that.
What amp masters a tone for you depends on the sound in your head. For me, the screamer got closer than any I've tried to a perfect metal tone bar the powerball, that isnt practical at the moment: to me its a master of one thing with bonus points for everything else!
Edit: powerball is master of all, jack of nothing!
(disclaimer: no this isnt really true, dont get any knickers in a twist: buts its pretty dang close!)
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Thanks, Mark. The biggest issue is that I can't play the bloody things before I purchase. There isn't a dealer to be found in either of the States I visit or live in. So I'd have to sell my current gear to finance the new purchase, then buy blind and hope that the new gear "does it" for me. A really sucky situation to be in, for sure. Any idea about the Engl e570 preamp and how it fits into the picture. That would allow me to keep my current rack, minus the Triaxis, but should give me access to more tones to do things OTHER than death metal grindage. At least that's the theory. The other issue is that I don't know how good using the Screamer or other head's effects loop to plug in my other preamps would be. Do any of the Engl have an external preamp in to use just the power amp section of the heads? I'm just too damn busy right this second at work to look through all 10 PDF manuals.
Thanks,
Jeff
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the Powerball is the screamers big brother imo, it has the ultra gain aswell as the rock type stuff and clean...
when i saw Emperor live in Wacken festiva they used the Powerball, there stuff isnt all balls out extreme riffage... in fact, alot of bands at the same festival used various ENGL amps, in previous years it was mostly Mode 4s and the odd Mesa, and this year was the best sounding year so far!
Primal Fear use the Savage SE and the pre-amp, they are sort of 'heavy pissed off judas priest meets zakk wylde' :P
I think the Fireball would do fusion fine, Stick a delay pedal in with and back the gain off (half way on the gain dial was enough for some proper balls out metal sounds while still leaving the clean 'clean' with a tweak of the guitars volume, that was with a Nailbomb pickup).
www.rocksolidamps.com is a good USA dealer (from what ive read online)
Listen to his clips, theres one of the Screamer and Thunder doing Vai and Satch stuff, also one of the Thunder doing some brutal death riffs ;)
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Or don't fanny about at all and just get a Blackmore :twisted:
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LOL! But how do you REALLY feel, Dakine? :)
Chrisola, yeah, Derek@rocksolidamps is who I would be dealing with here in the states. Not a bad word said about the guy on numerous forums. I've poured over the clips on his site for hours... still have many more to go before I can really make up my mind.
As far as Engl users, I LOVE Primal Fear (E530 preamp and Savage IIRC), Scar Symmetry (Fireball), Jag Panzer (Powerball). Michael Romeo of Symphony X used an Engl Fireball for nearly all the rhythms on "The Odyssey" and that sounds killer as well. So lots of bands I dig use the gear, they don't exactly bust out with Gambale or Holdsworth leads lines during their songs either, you know?
Dammit... it's so hard to choose. Plus, if past history is any indicator... it'll be two plus years before I finally make up my mind... and then be unhappy with my decision for another 5 years after. I blame the Ewoks. Friggin furry little teddy bear bar-stewards. :)
Thanks for all the replies.
Regs,
Jeff
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^ i haven't owned one, but I've tried one several times. I'll get the ball rolling, but obviously listen more to the guys who actually own one.
1) it has plenty of gain. perhaps more than a recto, in terms of pure gain. the rectos, though, have a lot of lower mids, which tend to make it sound "heavy", without the need for as much gain- the engls are a bit brighter in tone- think megadeth tone, as opposed to mesa, which is more of a modern metallica tone.
2) it's a compromise. not as much as you'd expect, since each channel is voiced individually, but there's not doubt, there's a little compromise there.
I'd look into a genz benz el diablo too (in addition to the screamer, and perhaps a mesa f30), they're all roughly in similar price bands. of course, if you can't get to try them...
:drink:
Well said.
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Thanks for the replies - some really useful stuff here.
Sounds like I will be able to cover clean/crunch reasonably well & still get mega gain. To hell with it, I'm gonna buy one :D
I'm not getting rid of my Mesa, so will always be able to go back to it if I want a different high gain sound to the Engl.
If space, money, neighbours & travel weren't an issue I'd get a VHT Ultralead or H&K Triamp or one of the bigger Engls (Powerball or Savage) & a 4x12" cab. There's always the option of a new Dual Rectifier but I don't want to have another amp with the same high gain sound - even if it will cover the clean & crunch sound I also want. The point is to have something a bit different :)
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Cool,
glad ya got some help.
We can start an ENGL/Mesa club :twisted:
Fired the ENGL up today (it was pouting since Mesa arrived) and we have renewed our friendship. The EQ pedal (IMO) makes ALL the difference. Now it's almost a coin toss to which one gets played :)
So, go on 'make your day', get a Screamer :twisted:
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Or don't fanny about at all and just get a Blackmore :twisted:
that's what I'd probably go for too, in that situation. I haven't tried the blackmore, but going by what I've heard, and the engls I have tried, I'd say the blackmore might be a little better- a little more organic.
assuming you aren't willing to fork out for a savage/se... (which you presumably aren't, if you aren't willing to fork out for a powerball)
the powerball, basically, is a much more metal-orientated amp. both channels 3 and 4 will do modern, extreme metal easily. almost too easily, to the point where it's a struggle to get channels 3 and 4 to do anything other than metal (but then i'm a kind of 30% metalhead- and most of the metal in that metalhead is stuff like megadeth and iron maiden).
EDIT:
Well said.
:drink:
oh, and nick- you should look into getting some way of plugging into both the engl and mesa at the same time- that'd own. \m/
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oh, and nick- you should look into getting some way of plugging into both the engl and mesa at the same time- that'd own. \m/[/quote]
Ok head spinning now.
Dave I am over 30yo mate, how do I put it into both at once? :wink:
Indeed I have 2 'amps of brewtality' along with pups of brewtality. Thing is with all this testosterone the things are kinda scaring me these days. I swear they growl at me on 'standby' :)
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You could look into a high quality buffer/signal splitter and use that. I think the Bradshaw units get high praise (though they are UBEr expensive) as well as the stuff from Mario at Axess Electronics: http://www.axess-electronics.com/products/bs2.html
Quality stuff and Mario is a quality guy.
Regs,
Jeff
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Looks like you'll be enjoying a screamer very soon, Jeff!
Hope you like it!
Dakine:
On the two amps thing
I also own a TSL602 with JJs that has a medium-high gain, dark, tight, very throaty sound. I occasionally play that with the screamer using the wet and dry outs of my wammy together. They complement each other perfectly. What the screamer lacks in dark growl, the marshall supplies, what the marshall lacks in clarity, lows and highs the screamer supplies. The single best tone I've ever played with! Ultra-thick, ultra heavy, still clear :twisted: :twisted:
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Jeez, so having left Texas ya now want me ejected from the UK too for making noise!
Sheesh, running outta countries here LOL.
Seriously, thanks Jeff/Dave but sounds all abit 'pro' to me right now. I am just happy to flip coins and play one at a time.
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Looks like you'll be enjoying a screamer very soon, Jeff!
Hope you like it!
Dakine:
On the two amps thing
I also own a TSL602 with JJs that has a medium-high gain, dark, tight, very throaty sound. I occasionally play that with the screamer using the wet and dry outs of my wammy together. They complement each other perfectly. What the screamer lacks in dark growl, the marshall supplies, what the marshall lacks in clarity, lows and highs the screamer supplies. The single best tone I've ever played with! Ultra-thick, ultra heavy, still clear :twisted: :twisted:
Hmm, more to this than meets the eye then.
However, I still think I will need a crayon drawing in different colors to get to grips with this.
Although I am now INTERESTED! :twisted:
If either would like to elaborate (in more simplistic terms LOL) please tell (or PM me).
Nick
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It's not as bad as it sounds. If you take a peek at the PDF user manual for the BS2 in the link I sent you above, direct your eyes to the upper right part of the file on page 2. Pretty much you can split the signal 3 ways.
MAIN OUT: Connected to the input of one amp or pedal
ISO'D OUT: Connected to the input of the second amp, effect pedal feeding a second amp or the input of a tuner to prevernt a ground loop.
SPLIT OUT: Connected directly (in parallel) to the MAIN OUT. use this jack whenever a transformer isolated signal is not necessary, such as when feeding the input of a pedal and/or some tuners.
Hope that helps.
Regs,
Jeff
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Nothing to it mate.
Plug your guitar into whatever you normally plug into, then into some king of signal splitter with two outputs. It gives the same output for both signals: plug one into each amp.
I just found it by chance really: I was after a signal splitter for the job, and got a wammy down the line. It has a wet out that has the effect in it, and a dry for tuners and what have you. I just dont use the effect some both are dry.
A mesa and an engl like this should redefine "OWNS" :twisted:
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hmmmmmmm, but costly you say (as in part), whats this bout a wammy doing it?
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well, the BS2 from Axess is $135 US.. I'm guessing the translates to around 75 - 80 pounds or so. Unless shipping is exorbitant. Yikes.. it is. International shipping is another $60 US. Damn.. nearly half the price of the unit. So it looks like about a 100 pounds or so, give or take. There might be cheaper alternatives... it's the isolation circuit that you are really paying for with this product.
Regs,
Jeff
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Vs wammy doing it as a bonus to having a wammy. Thick end of 200 quid.
I'm not sure just any wammy will, though. Its got to have a wet and a dry output.
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hmmmmmmmm, still have a Boss GT8 , a ZOOm MRS8 kicking about. Will have to look in back.
Maybe the Boss, it's got left and right and all sortsa stuff ROFLMAO
(http://www.bossgtcentral.com/pics/gt8rear.jpg)
think have a chance?
Hmmm, ENGL+Mesa+Warpig= Jail? :twisted:
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my digitech chorus pedal has two outputs, I picked it up for £60...
I haven't tried it with the two outputs into two amps, though... and I also don't know if it'll do what you want...
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a Savage 60 wast on ebay germany for 600euros (last time i checked..no bids)! that was a bargain and would work in UK.
So lots of bands I dig use the gear, they don't exactly bust out with Gambale or Holdsworth leads lines during their songs either, you know?
Wintersun (very neo classical widdlily) used Powerballs when i saw them and Timo Tolki from Stratovarius has used the Powerball although he hasnt committed to anyone amp...
I think you will be happy with any ENGL as long as you dont expect it to sound like a Marshall or MEsa etc :D