Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Eric on September 19, 2006, 03:56:15 AM
-
OK I was here (http://www.lordriffenstein.com/speakers.htm)listening to sound clips of various speakers. I loved the sound of the Celestion Classic Lead 80 (used). It was near perfect, clear and articulate. The new one sounds honky to me. The other speakers sounded muddy to me.
So here's my question what speakers are good at getting that clean sound out of a distorted amp? I relly don't want to break in a new speaker for God only knows how long. Actually I am going to e-mail the guy that did the comparrison and see how old that speaker is. I'm such a total gear geek. :oops:
All suggestions are welcome.
-
I have 2 Marshall JCM 800 era 1960 cabinets that originally had the horrid G12M-75s (mid scoop, way too much low end, nothing nice about them). I upgraded my slant cabinet (the only one I actually use) with Classic Leads just on faith from what other users told me and a couple of sound clips (V30s were my other option). I will never use the straight cabinet with the G12M75s in it again after the change.
They sound so much better than most other speakers out there that they'll still sound better than most new while you wait for them to break in.
In a nutshell, they are like V30s with more bass (a lot more but that's not saying much, but less than G12M75s), and less highs but the same great smooth mids that makes the V30s. One thing about them is you need a good amp.... if there's any flaws in the amp, the Classic Leads wont make them ugly. And you'll also want to down your preamp gain with these and up your master a bit too because your amp will sound a bit fizzier but they get warm when you start pushing power tubes so your amp sounds warmer.
They also work really well clean. I highly recommend them for Marshall style amps, but stick with V30s for Mesas or if you want an older style tone. The other speakers I can recommend is the G12H30s but they will break up, but they're loads better than Greenbacks.
Celestion has samples here, I think the same holds true...
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/features/tone/index.asp
They're my fav. speaks personally. I did some clips with my Rebel Yell loaded Les Paul through my modified Marshall JCM 900 SL-X but unfortunately I did most of them with the straight cabinet... what happened was I wanted to see how that thing sounded with the G12M75s... terrible, as I suspected, but I decided to record at the same moment.
It should be noted that on the G12M75 clips, the mid was at 10, and only at 5-7 on the Classic Lead clips.
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4562
-
I have a little time on my hands today and decided to listen to the clips and I agree that the used classic lead sounded the best.The V30 was the next best in my opinion and I am allowing for my PC speakers which are not the best way of judging-but "thems me thoughts".
-
I replaced the G12T-75s in my 1960a with Vintage 30s, and the difference is just astonishing. They really help my guitar cut through the rest of the instruments.
The other guitarist in my band still prefers the G12T-75s in his 1922 2x12 though.... philistine. ;)
Muttley
-
I've got G12T-75s in my 1960A and I don't reckon they're that bad actually! They're nice and clear and handle loud volumes really well. They don't have the character (big midrange honk) of V30s, but you can dial that in using your amp EQ if you need it or by adding an EQ pedal.
Bottom line - look at your amp and the settings you like. Decide what you need in a new speaker (more treble, less bass etc) and buy based on that.
-
I've got G12T-75s in my 1960A and I don't reckon they're that bad actually! They're nice and clear and handle loud volumes really well. They don't have the character (big midrange honk) of V30s, but you can dial that in using your amp EQ if you need it or by adding an EQ pedal.
Bottom line - look at your amp and the settings you like. Decide what you need in a new speaker (more treble, less bass etc) and buy based on that.
Quite right.
Tweaking is your friend. Why change summit that may well be fine with some adjustment.
V30's in my ENGL sound great but also love the Black Shadow in the Mesa. Both can sound very different or similar depending on EQ'ing.
-
I'm not a speaker expert but the best combination i've tried so far is a mix of V30 and Century Vintage. it gots that V30 sound with an added tight bottom, and sound very nice clean.
If I could only have one type of speaker in the cab, I'd choose those H30, one of the best sounding speaker IMO
-
Those classic lead 80s are very nice indeed with gainier amps - I wasn't so happy with them using a plexi though.
The 75w Celestions are great for metal with gobs of gain at high volume, many people that bitch about them have just bought the wrong cab (they're terrible for 'rock' tones).
:twisted:
-
Celestion Sidewinder - if you can find one. I have one in my Silver Jubilee and was told by a studio engineer that it was one of the best guitar sounds he had heard (having BK's in both guitars didn't hurt either!!!).
-
I've got G12T-75s in my 1960A and I don't reckon they're that bad actually! They're nice and clear and handle loud volumes really well. They don't have the character (big midrange honk) of V30s, but you can dial that in using your amp EQ if you need it or by adding an EQ pedal.
Bottom line - look at your amp and the settings you like. Decide what you need in a new speaker (more treble, less bass etc) and buy based on that.
Listen to my clips of the G12M75s with the mids on 10 and the Classic Leads with the mids on 5 I believe (no higher than 7).
...and I have yet to hear an amp they are clear with... anything but that.
-
Those classic lead 80s are very nice indeed with gainier amps - I wasn't so happy with them using a plexi though.
Really... I love them with my Major but that thing has enough power to make 4x300 watt speakers distort.... but yeah they are fairly clean and tight sounding and aren't muddy and don't breakup easily... they wont provide a 60s style tone if that's what you want.
For something like Gary Moore's The Messiah Will Come Again or jazz though, they're awesome clean too.
-
Those classic lead 80s are very nice indeed with gainier amps - I wasn't so happy with them using a plexi though.
Really... I love them with my Major but that thing has enough power to make 4x300 watt speakers distort.... but yeah they are fairly clean and tight sounding and aren't muddy and don't breakup easily... they wont provide a 60s style tone if that's what you want.
For something like Gary Moore's The Messiah Will Come Again or jazz though, they're awesome clean too. It's basically why I said you gotta have a good amp with them (and a plexi is most certainly a good amp, don't get me wrong but I just imagine you wanted something with a more 60s style breakup if I am correct).
-
Well I do love gain so I tend to favor cleaner speakers. Greenbacks and similar speakers just sound dark to me.
I would love to find a Celestion Sidewinder like Phil said. I did hear the Eminence Tonker is very similar though.
In addition to my love of gain I also like to down tune so clearer high wattage speakers tend to handle that better.
Oh and fps_dean did I understand you have a Marshall Major?? If so I am beyond jealous. I want one badly.
-
I love them with my Major but that thing has enough power to make 4x300 watt speakers distort
heh, they ARE loud beasts those Majors - how do you run that amp? Is it for bass or as a clean amp? Surely you're not cranking it? :lol: :lol:
:twisted:
-
I love them with my Major but that thing has enough power to make 4x300 watt speakers distort
heh, they ARE loud beasts those Majors - how do you run that amp? Is it for bass or as a clean amp? Surely you're not cranking it? :lol: :lol:
:twisted:
Huh? What's the point of having 200 watts if you don't use them all? :twisted:
-
I love them with my Major but that thing has enough power to make 4x300 watt speakers distort
heh, they ARE loud beasts those Majors - how do you run that amp? Is it for bass or as a clean amp? Surely you're not cranking it? :lol: :lol:
:twisted:
Huh? What's the point of having 200 watts if you don't use them all? :twisted:
headroom - if you want a LOUD and clean amp that will stay clean way past the volume you can stand, this is the amp :lol:
-
Huh? What's the point of having 200 watts if you don't use them all? :twisted:
headroom - if you want a LOUD and clean amp that will stay clean way past the volume you can stand, this is the amp :lol:
I know. My sense of humor isn't always funny. I would love to mess around with a Marshall Major. I'm a big fan of amps with kt88/6550 tubes. I love the headroom and bottom end.
-
Oh and fps_dean did I understand you have a Marshall Major?? If so I am beyond jealous. I want one badly.
Yeah a '69 in very good condition... you're gonna hate me if I tell you the story of how I got it and how much I paid... or cry, I'm not sure.
-
I love them with my Major but that thing has enough power to make 4x300 watt speakers distort
heh, they ARE loud beasts those Majors - how do you run that amp? Is it for bass or as a clean amp? Surely you're not cranking it? :lol: :lol:
:twisted:
Usually fairly clean. I have cranked it before with a treble booster... that thing has some really mean sick sound distortion, but when I did that I melted a tube and a tube socket and it cost me $600 in repairs... but god damn it did sound sick!
-
I know. My sense of humor isn't always funny. I would love to mess around with a Marshall Major. I'm a big fan of amps with kt88/6550 tubes. I love the headroom and bottom end.
This thing is massive clean compression.... you drive the power tubes while the preamp is still perfectly clean. By the time the preamp begins breaking up, you are already getting near the melting point for KT88/6550 tubes. Warmest amp I have ever heard and a lot of people tell me it's the best sounding Marshall they have ever heard... Bob at eurotubes.com said the best sounding Marshall he ever heard was an old Major, the 3 control version called the Pig I believe it was which most people say don't even sound as good as the later models. Part of the reason I melted that tube was because it was a 6550 which are not supposed to be used in a Major but I got it with 4 6550s, a GE, RCA, Phillips and Sylvania, but a KT88 probably would have melted too.
Some people have modded them with 4 12AX7s for more gain.... they chassis does have 4 holes drilled into it... it is rumoured that Dawk did a 4th preamp tube mod for Richie Blackmore's although I'm not so sure that is true (I should ask him!)... he ran 4 treble boosters and changed his tubes every 2-3 days tops with the Gold Lion KT88s that now sell for $650+ usd per tube for NOS (I used SEDs, and RFTs in the preamp... much cheaper).
But the only thing that really works for distortion is treble boosters... I've tried many pedals to boost the gain a little and none of them worked at all. I'm probably going to test fate with a Soldano Supercharger at some point.... that should do it.
-
I would love to find a Celestion Sidewinder like Phil said. I did hear the Eminence Tonker is very similar though.
I think I'm familiar with those... those are the old early or mid 80s speakers that Jake E. Lee used if I am not mistaken?
Those things are more neutral than the Classic Leads, but I like the Classic Leads a little better because they are heavy on the mids and they still get warm when you crank a 50 or 100 watt amp and the midrange increases and sounds nice.
-
Melted a tube? That is so rock n roll!!! lol
I might hate you if you got it too cheap. ;)
A Marshall Major, a couple of 4x12s, a treble booster and the baritone seven string I want to build. :twisted: The neighbors will love it. :D
-
lol yes they would!
Well what happened is I was at a musicians flea market, and they had a smaller room in which non-dealers could sell stuff. One guy had a bunch of old Marshalls, a 1971 1959SLP, a JTM45 which I would have bought if I had known I could sell it to the smithsonian for a brand new vette, and the Major... the first one I want to check out was the 1959SLP, but he had no guitars or cables.
So we decided that I would find the guitar and he would find the cables, so I asked some guy if I could borrow his Les Paul to try out one of the marshall half stacks. He said "only if you turn it up, all the way." Meanwhile the guy selling the amps had already crosslinked the channels, turned them both to 10 and was just waiting for a guitar to plug in before flipping the standby switch. I told the guy "okay" kind of sarcastically, and plug it in and turn it on. It was really loud... then I tap the pickup selector switch and it turns out there was a short in the guitar because it just got about ten times louder.
When I give the guy the guitar back, he said "that was the coolest thing I have ever seen in my life! I didn't think you'd actually do it!"
He also had the Major which I really didn't know what it is, but I figured it's both more unique and that it would be more of a collectable and I figured that I could probably sell it for a 50 or 100 watt head from the era. When I was walking out, some guy takes a look at that and says "nice Marshall! I'm here just to see if I can find a Marshall Major."
I paid $800 for the head and $700 for both cabinets.
-
I paid $800 for the head and $700 for both cabinets.
I think that deal is what they term 'daylight robbery' :lol:
You need a green Russian Big Muff into that Major - that is one hell of a tone. I saw a (art-noise/punk) bad from Leeds recently with this setup and it was awesome.
:twisted:
-
I almost tried one out today for the hell of it...
but I'm not really looking for pedals at the moment because I just ordered a Soldano Supercharger... that should sound killer with the Major!