Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: CaffeineJunkie on September 19, 2006, 05:11:03 PM

Title: converting trems
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on September 19, 2006, 05:11:03 PM
hey,

i'm looking at converting my trem into a floating trem

(i heard that you can unscrew something and it will then go up and down)

but i don't know what to adjust, and i don't want to just start unscrewing stuff to see what it does, so has anybody done this before??

:D

Cheers

CJ
Title: converting trems
Post by: fps_dean on September 19, 2006, 08:20:30 PM
Is it a floyd?  Or are we talking about a standard Fender strat trem here?
Title: converting trems
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on September 19, 2006, 09:34:56 PM
standard vintage trem (on an OLP MM-1), sorry, i thought that but forgot to type it
Title: converting trems
Post by: Dakine on September 19, 2006, 10:20:32 PM
ok, confoosed.
I have a Petrucci MM with vintage trem and Had an Axis same.
What are you trying to do exactly? Both my trems go up and down.
If yours is like a floyd with little recess thats different. Then again dunno what OLP use exactly.
Title: converting trems
Post by: fps_dean on September 19, 2006, 10:53:29 PM
What you're going to have to do is loosen the screws that screw the trem claw in a little bit.

With many of the vintage style trems, if the screws that hold the trem on are screwed in all the way, it will lock the bridge in place against the body and almost be like a fixed bridge so you may have to loosen them..... however if you can dive you should be fine there although it may be possible that if the bridge is screwed down too tight too low it will be hard to move it and therefore make your return very poor.
Title: converting trems
Post by: Dakine on September 19, 2006, 11:18:48 PM
on MM they are fully recessed so (less OLP do it diff.)
Title: converting trems
Post by: Dakine on September 19, 2006, 11:28:15 PM
Ah, ok, just had look at one.
Looks like there is a plate behind whole trem system. Cannot see close-up pic but does look like you are sh*t outta luck. The pic looks like the plate will negate reward travel of the trem block, no recess.
Any more info. may be helpfull though.
Title: converting trems
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on September 20, 2006, 12:34:54 AM
OK, so i've established that the screws in the 1st picture (the one's with the red arrows pointing at) are probably the one's to loosen slightly

as for the rest, i'm completely lost, so i've taken pictures of the front and back of the trem, as-Dakine-i have no idea what you are talking about when you said:

Quote from: Dakine
pic looks like the plate will negate reward travel of the trem block, no recess


this may be because you are looking at the floyd rose version, i don't know, i don't own any FR equipped guitars, but i hope that the pics will help


Cheers

CJ


:D
Title: converting trems
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on September 20, 2006, 12:45:17 AM
k, forgot the pics
Title: converting trems
Post by: fps_dean on September 20, 2006, 08:55:40 AM
Looks like you'll be fine to unscrew the claw screws a bit to get some room to pull up on.  Be warned that doing this you will be prone to having a poor trem return, and that when you do, a little turn actually goes quite a long way after you tune....
Title: converting trems
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on September 20, 2006, 11:15:16 AM
Hmm
Depending upon what gauge of string you are using I would suggest:
Pulling out the middle spring and angle the two remaining springs in towrds the centre (where the red arrows are on the diagram) and hook them on hooks 2 and 4.
Then retune, and see how high the bridge sits
If too high , then tighten the two screws on the rear
if still too low, then loosen the two screws

The six screws on te plate on the fronmt holding it to the body must NOT be tightened down or the bridge will never be able to pivot (worth checking)
It must allow just enough room for movement
Title: converting trems
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on September 20, 2006, 02:10:36 PM
ok, so i've had a go at what was suggested - i've removed the centre spring and moved the other two to the middle of the 'claw'

i have also loosened the screws in the back of the guitar slightly

however, this doesn't seem to have made any difference, apart from making the trem easier to use (thanks :D)

as you can see in the picture below, the trem is still sitting directly on the top of the guitar, therefore resulting in no room to move for when i want to raise the pitch using the trem

is it just that i haven't unscrewed the back enough, i didn't want to remove them too much, as i doubt i would be able to get it all back together again if they came out, and i don't know how long the screws are

any suggestions??


Cheers

CJ
Title: converting trems
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on September 20, 2006, 02:11:52 PM
and, again, i have forgotten to attach the picture....
Title: converting trems
Post by: Dakine on September 20, 2006, 06:56:29 PM
as I said, think you r sh*t outta luck with that kinda trem, it is NOT recessed so has very limited travel rearwards. Looks like one of the things OLP cheaped out on. The 'floyd' model would do it but that one I cannot see how will (as believe you want it to). The MusicMan Vintage trem is recessed into the body, that 'plate' is creating movement v.difficult.
Sorry dude.
Am sure you could 'frankentrem' it but would be fugly am sure.
Title: converting trems
Post by: PhilKing on September 20, 2006, 07:16:46 PM
The 2 screws into the body are about 6cm long, so you won't take them too far by accident - the springs will fall off first!!!
What guage strings do you use, and do you have the guitar tuned to pitch while you are doing this.  It will not tilt forwards without string tension to pull it.

2 springs should really let it come forwards unless you are using really light strings detuned.
Title: converting trems
Post by: blue on September 20, 2006, 07:34:08 PM
i get the feeling some people aren't quite sure what's being discussed here!   i did this on my first strat copy many moons ago.  the back of the trem's baseplate just raises away from the body of the guitar, as if you had depressed the bar a bit.  you'll never get the kind of upward travel you can with a floyd rose, and tuning becomes more awkward, having to balance all the strings against each other, but you can wobble in both directions!  and that's all Hendrix had to get his wild whammy abuse!
Title: converting trems
Post by: FELINEGUITARS on September 20, 2006, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: PhilKing
The 2 screws into the body are about 6cm long, so you won't take them too far by accident - the springs will fall off first!!!
What guage strings do you use, and do you have the guitar tuned to pitch while you are doing this.  It will not tilt forwards without string tension to pull it.

2 springs should really let it come forwards unless you are using really light strings detuned.


You may find that some different springs may help - some of the ones in cheap guitars are a bit nasty and have too much tension in them

Get some Schaller, Gotoh or fender ones
Title: converting trems
Post by: Dakine on September 20, 2006, 08:45:26 PM
Am as sure as can be on whats being discussed, not that have a trem axe with such a design, but with a baseplate like that, rearward travel is gonna be either a. restricted or b.unsightly in modification, IMO.
Title: converting trems
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on September 20, 2006, 09:37:43 PM
w00t, it's ok

i just unscrewed the two screws at the back some more

Dakine, i get what you mean about the plate, but i just wanted some movement, i wasn't planning on going Steve Vai style on it anytime soon

:twisted:

YAY, i have a guitar which goes up and down now :D



Cheers guys, a great help as usual

James
Title: converting trems
Post by: Dakine on September 20, 2006, 10:37:04 PM
good deal,it's abit of a sucky design. Glad you are satisfied with the reuslts. You could 'shim' the unit to allow more movement but that would mean lots of adjustments and some (maybe) bridge instability, depending on how shimmed).
Just GLAD ya got it to move enough to attain the effect ya want.  :)
Title: converting trems
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on September 20, 2006, 10:40:24 PM
i only really wanted one semitone, so i could make some slightly strange sounds when required, without paying through the nose for a whammy pedal



Cheers again for all your help

James
Title: converting trems
Post by: Siadern on September 20, 2006, 11:29:25 PM
You can also try heavier strings, as the extra tension will raise it a bit, especially now you've rmoved one of the springs.

I did the exact opposite to you by the way, I added 2 more springs and tightened the screws to stop it floating. I never used the trem and it sounds better (slightly more sustain) that way. Also stays in tune longer.  :D
Title: converting trems
Post by: CaffeineJunkie on September 20, 2006, 11:55:15 PM
yeah, i'm changing my strings from 9-46s to 10-52s when i get my new pickups (which i still haven't chosen)