Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Crazy_Joe on September 19, 2006, 07:15:36 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRTeZuXBa2w&mode=related&search=
And there it is.
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If that's sucking at guitar then most of us should just quit right now.
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yer dude... you cant say they suck at guitar... thats just... stupid... and ignorant...
you could say... the stuff they play on guitar is incredibly distasteful... but you cant slate theyre skill.
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Their playing doesn't sound as fluid as I thought it would - especially the tapping, sounds rather naff actually. Shame really, since there's not that many mainstream shredders these days doing stuff as fast as them.
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It looks like they're getting ahead of themselves in that clip: like thats at the peak of their ability or they havent warmed up. But back a step off from that level, a little simpler, and youre still in 'advanced' territory. Or if they went through it for 5 more minutes to an hour depending how good they actaully are and I bet they'd have it much cleaner.
All in all a little unfair, mate. No ones perfect all the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTqyo4hVSMQ
See?
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Damn that was messy, maybe they are a bit overrated...
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woooah guys...
they played one thing a bit cr@p... can you honestly everything you play you play perfectly 100%? :?
just sounds to me like people WANT to have a reason to diss them
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I think they suck, but that's because I dislike what they do with the guitar, not how they do it.
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Same here...
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woooah guys...
they played one thing a bit cr@p... can you honestly everything you play you play perfectly 100%? :?
just sounds to me like people WANT to have a reason to diss them
Everything in that video was very messy and sloppy though...
I wasn't really trying to diss them, they're still better than you, or you or you....
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... and you...
i appreciate that it might all be sloppy... but starting to question whether theyre overrated or not judging by one video isnt exactly fair/wise is it....
if you get what im saying
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oh and the thing you quoted of mine wasnt directed specifically at you man.
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Thing is though they could have recorded that as many times as they wanted to, but obviously they couldn't actually playing it properly. I mean come on anyone can do Sam Totman's part in that, and he couldn't do it very well.
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dude... you think they actually cared about that?
thats obviously for some magazine or something... they dont give a cr@p if it sounds bad or not... and Sam Totman looks like he just got out of bed for christ sake... its not like its a studio production... its a little featurette... and saying they 'obviously cant play it' is just ridiculous.
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:D Having heard the latest Dragon Force Cd [ inhuman Rampage] i can say that the guitar players are allways playing on the edge.
As it goes i don`t like them either allthough i do like shred.
As for this video.......You have to be fair & say if your going to release or allow a release of a video of you playing silly fast you need to exercise a level of control otherwise if you get it wrong for whatever reason your going to look like a complete C*** !
And wether you like these guys or not, they both look like C***s !
:D 8)
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^i agree with all of that...
but do you really think they give a cr@p about some little thing like that?... you can tell theyre disinterested by the looks on their faces... they looked like theyve just picked up the guitars and done a random little thing so they can get out of their quick as they can...
i still dont see how anyone can judge ANYONE on one short video clip anyway...
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:D Sorry dude i didn`t make myself clear. You need to exercise a level of control over what the guitar mag puts out in your name. It may well be that they were playing around & taking the piss for all we no, but you shouldn`t let anyone put out something that makes you look stupid. If people think after watching this Vid that there pr*ts then they have no one but themselfs to blame.
If i was asked to turn up play some licks for a guitar CD-Rom/DVD i wouldn`t have turned up with a disinterested attitude. It might give people a wrong impression of me & these people maybe & probably are CD buyers.
I`ve heard these guys album [ inhuman rampage] they can obviously play but in this case they`ve made prats of themselves
:D 8)
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+1
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+2
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I wish I'd seen that clip before I bought Inhuman Rampage, I could have saved myself some money :wink:
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:D + 1
:D 8)
It`s actually a very very overated album & to be fair Power Quest do it better.
:D 8)
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bah... dragonsuck ..
t's all gimmick and whammy.. sorry, but a 5 year old that figured out how to make nintendo sounds with their guitar can do it.
now making it sound like a robot w/ just tapping, now that takes some skill.
or like r2d2 with just a metal ring.. that's innovative.
you all should buy Get out of my Yard and sell your guitars.
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Damn that was messy, maybe they are a bit overrated...
Perhaps their rider is a little over specced, or just too long in the pub beforehand ?
Rob...
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:D Sorry dude i didn`t make myself clear. You need to exercise a level of control over what the guitar mag puts out in your name. It may well be that they were playing around & taking the piss for all we no, but you shouldn`t let anyone put out something that makes you look stupid. If people think after watching this Vid that there pr*ts then they have no one but themselfs to blame.
If i was asked to turn up play some licks for a guitar CD-Rom/DVD i wouldn`t have turned up with a disinterested attitude. It might give people a wrong impression of me & these people maybe & probably are CD buyers.
I`ve heard these guys album [ inhuman rampage] they can obviously play but in this case they`ve made prats of themselves
:D 8)
totally agree with that mate. good summary.
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Dragonforce make me laugh, I think they're great. A lot of people make the mistake of over-analysing them and in doing so completely miss the point! Listen to their lyrics, read their interviews, they don't take themselves particularly seriously so why is everyone else doing so?! They are just having huge amounts of fun and are lucky enough to have engineered themselves into a situation where they can make a living doing this, if you are looking for artistic merit then you will not find it with dragonforce. You will, however, find people enjoying themselves and this is what really creates their appeal.
For what it's worth, their guitar playing pisses all over most other guitarists abilities it's just that they have reached the point where they recognise that there are far more enjoyable and satisfying things to do in life than attempting to be the most inovative guitarist since satch or vai! :lol:
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SAdly I didnt like them live either
One of the few bands I have had to walk out on at a gig
they were truly terrible IMO
They had no sense of dynamics- - no light and shade
It was all 100mph stuff and the same with the vocals
As for the I bet you cant play this clips
check out the Michael Romeo clip
Very musical and pleasant to listen to
There is a guy who has a lot of control over his playing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj5iD__lX04
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SAdly I didnt like them live either
One of the few bands I have had to walk out on at a gig
they were truly terrible IMO
They had no sense of dynamics- - no light and shade
It was all 100mph stuff and the same with the vocals
As for the I bet you cant play this clips
check out the Michael Romeo clip
Very musical and pleasant to listen to
There is a guy who has a lot of control over his playing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj5iD__lX04
That's exactly what i got from them when i saw them a couple of years ago. The support band were much better than them i thought, they had alot more showmanship.
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I can't believe the ignorant and harsh comments in this thread and I thought the people on this forum were such down to earth people. Threads started just for bashing are just plain stupid why bother?
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Check out the parody version of 'betcha can't play this'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s10s7vsBU4o
Statements like 'betcha can't play this' are very demeaning for beginning players and you're pretty much asking for an @ss whoopin' or somebody taking total p!ss out of you.
Why would I even want to play something like that? What purpose does it have in a song?
Rant over. :wink:
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It`s actually a very very overated album & to be fair Power Quest do it better.
Power Quest played a local club (Bradford Rio) about 2 years ago and I saw them totally by chance, it was only £4 to get in - best value for money in a gig I've been to! They were exceptionally good, and as far as Power Metal bands go I do think they were better.
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I can't believe the ignorant and harsh comments in this thread and I thought the people on this forum were such down to earth people. Threads started just for bashing are just plain stupid why bother?
Good point Muso
I happen to think that the two players are very able players
Herman has a lot of skill
I just feel that the music they play in their band holds no appeal for me, whilst others in the same genre amaze me
I do think that the title "Bet you can't play this" is a bit smug and offputting to beginners whilst it is intended as a throwing down the gauntlet to get us all practising
Some of the players on these clips come across as smug whilst others blow you away and inspire you at the same time
I found the Michael Romeo inspiring like I did when I heard Uli Roth, Michael Schenker, Yngwie Malmsteen, Randy Rhoads, or even Ralph Santola
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you all should buy Get out of my Yard and sell your guitars.
Got it a few weeks back, Paul Gilbert is so unique as a shredder that completely understands how a rock song should sound. Amazing playing and his retro tone is really inspiring. I love it :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Sound like an OLD record here but said it before and will say it again.
Bash ALL ya want but they (band/player in question) have reached such status that they HAVE affected you! Yes they have, or ya would'nt be talking about them. Like them or not (whatever topic) they have contracts and therefore making a living doing what they want.
Having said that, was bored whilst shopping (yes with females) so popped into a record shop. Not much caught my eye so saw a Dragonforce CD on prominent display. Never heard of em but read the sticker affixed to front (plaudits from many people/publications). Ok give it a try I thought. Get in car to come home and whack it in. Suffice to say, listened to little and gave it away next day, NOT my 'cup of tea', however, talent is talent wether like it or not.
Bash away, but they STILL got ya attention :lol:
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just says to me they should be practicing a bit more before shooting a video which is meant to show them as virtuoso's.. Because they did just make a fool of them selfs..
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:D Again i think people are jumping the gun with this. My comments about them where based on Quality control issues not about wether they could play or not. As Johnathon [ Feline ] said they can & very obviously can play but with this Vid they`ve made pratts of themselves.
My comments about there music are based on the fact that IMHO there not very good. Again i`m not opposed to the type of music or style they adopt i just don`t think they do it very well, which was why i mentioned Power Quest who imho do it better.
As for banging away, your right at least there doing something, & putting it up there to be shot at. Its up to the players on this forum to get themselves thus far but when they do to exercise Quality Control & not to turn up to do lessons for guitar mags with pissy uninterested attitudes for something most of the rest of us would kill to be asked. It shows disrespect for other players imho
:D 8)
PS Johnathon loved the link great player, speed, tone & it was musical.
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Dragonforce make me laugh, I think they're great. A lot of people make the mistake of over-analysing them and in doing so completely miss the point! Listen to their lyrics, read their interviews, they don't take themselves particularly seriously so why is everyone else doing so?! They are just having huge amounts of fun and are lucky enough to have engineered themselves into a situation where they can make a living doing this, if you are looking for artistic merit then you will not find it with dragonforce. You will, however, find people enjoying themselves and this is what really creates their appeal.
For what it's worth, their guitar playing pisses all over most other guitarists abilities it's just that they have reached the point where they recognise that there are far more enjoyable and satisfying things to do in life than attempting to be the most inovative guitarist since satch or vai! :lol:
thats what i was getting at! nice one
and Muso 'n Nick... well said.
Jt. i still agree with you entirely about theyre attitudes and everything... well said to you also.
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i for one am not arguing about them "doing it" or however you want to call it, i'm arguing the gimmick of theirs.. overusing a whammy and making them sound like they are doing that stuff with their ability to control the instrument. i wont go into their guitar sound cos that's a farce in itself.
if you check youtube for that friedman and rolly vs dragonsuck video, you'll see that they are just about slightly over an average guitarists skill, but are hiding that behind MASSIVE ammounts of compression, distortion and a whammy being used 50 times in a solo.
their music is catchy, but so is all power metal that is out there and there are ridiculous numbers of bands that are better musicians and have better music, that dragonforce, but dont have an annoying gimmick to propell them forward.
everybody can do that.. but most chose not to make a complete ass of themselves when it comes to actualy walk the walk.
what humours me, is when the same people that praise dragonforse, slam malmsteen for doing what he does. yet they dont realise malmsteen has more skill and tallent in his ass hair than them.
if you think they have "untouchable" skill, you shouldnt be calling yourself a guitarist, lock yourself in a room for a year and practice your ass off and you'll be better than both of em combined.
believe me, it's a LOT more fun, if you know what you're doing and have a certain ammount of control over the instrument, than just noodling away in the key of Eminor, which is basicaly what they're doing all the time.
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i personally am not a fan of them at all..
but i totally disagree with you... jsut cause theres a load of people better than them... does not mean theyre bad (skill-wise)... and i also dont think theyre hiding behind gimicks at all... as ive already said i dont like them at all... just saying what i honestly think...
i still think theyre very good skill-wise... just my personal opinion.
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i personally am not a fan of them at all..
but i totally disagree with you... jsut cause theres a load of people better than them... does not mean theyre bad (skill-wise)... and i also dont think theyre hiding behind gimicks at all... as ive already said i dont like them at all... just saying what i honestly think...
i still think theyre very good skill-wise... just my personal opinion.
They are gimmicky, this is because, as I said before, they are just having a laugh and taking the piss. Marty Friedman may be able to outplay them but I'd rather go out on a pub-crawl with dragonforce! :lol:
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:lol: agreed... i wasnt saying they werent gimicky.. i was just saying they werent hiding behind theyre gimicks... as in... they can still play well too...
although like you said... theyre obivously not the best msot amazing players out there... but still... the point stands.
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:lol: agreed... i wasnt saying they werent gimicky.. i was just saying they werent hiding behind theyre gimicks... as in... they can still play well too...
although like you said... theyre obivously not the best msot amazing players out there... but still... the point stands.
Agreed, I like them it's just that many people miss the point. Also, a lot of people have only become vehemently anti-dragonforce since they made certain comments about Trivium in jest. These have also been completely mis-understood by many people with no sense of humour! :lol:
Seriously, I used to be of the "lock yourself away for half your life practising" school of thought, then I got laid and discovered beer. My quality of life has improved radically in the years since then but my guitar technique does suck now though. Musical ability is good but there's far more important stuff in the world!
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:lol: :lol:
good philosophy...
yer that trivium stuff was stupid... theyre all mates anyway...
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:lol: :lol:
good philosophy...
yer that trivium stuff was stupid... theyre all mates anyway...
innit, it's amazing how much that whole situation blew up, even though it's fairly likely that both bands were just pissing themselves laughing the whole way through! :lol:
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exactly! lol :lol:
its cause of all the hype around most famous bands nowadays... any event is dramatised to the extreme... so stupid
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:lol: agreed... i wasnt saying they werent gimicky.. i was just saying they werent hiding behind theyre gimicks... as in... they can still play well too...
although like you said... theyre obivously not the best msot amazing players out there... but still... the point stands.
can you watch that first video and SERIOUSLY say that it is good? i mean skill vise?
when they play slow it's pretty ok, but when they speed it up, it's TOTALY sloppy.. besides tottman cant even hit the strings without a dud note while slow. i was playing that stuff within the first year of picking up the guitar AND doing it better
i for one dont miss the point. i LOVE power metal, i think it's pretty safe to say that i'm one of the biggest power metal fans on this forum and i know what it is about. dragonsuck do not belong on the list, period. they arent good players, period. besides, if you do a show off video, at least do your homework about what you're gonna play.
them, avenged 7fold and trivium should be locked away in a gas cell.
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ha, i knew youd hate A7x... how predictable, anyway...
how... HOW can you say theyre not good players at all?
thats just plain silly in my eyes...
and also... like ive already said a million times... i admit that the video in question was cr@p... but we've been saying its not like they care about that...
and you cant judge anything on one video...
arhg this is getting so frustrating having to repeat myself so many times.
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ha, i knew youd hate A7x... how predictable, anyway...
how... HOW can you say theyre not good players at all?
thats just plain silly in my eyes...
and also... like ive already said a million times... i admit that the video in question was cr@p... but we've been saying its not like they care about that...
and you cant judge anything on one video...
arhg this is getting so frustrating having to repeat myself so many times.
dude.. are you that bad a guitarist, that you dont see the obvious lack of the ability to play clean lines? and it's not just one video. it's every video that isnt produced.
saying they dont care about if their playing sucks or not, doesnt give them any credibility. every guitarist should brush up his skills for the type of music he plays. you cant go out and play yngwie, if your sweeps arent clean down to a T.
and if they impress you, just give me a whammy and i can show you what someone who knows what he's doing can do.
and the more you post, the more solid my opinion about you is. why'd you come back anyway?
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jesus christ man! calm down!
i never said they impress me AT ALL... you need to learn how to read...
honestly man, your getting this worked up over a band you dont even like... id love to see you describe someone whose really quite bad at guitar...
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jesus christ man! calm down!
i never said they impress me AT ALL... you need to learn how to read...
honestly man, your getting this worked up over a band you dont even like... id love to see you describe someone whose really quite bad at guitar...
if he doesnt pretend to be top dog it doesnt bother me at all. we all started somewhere, but to see two bums "shred" it out, that seriously lack the ability to do said shredding, i want to punch them in the face.
it's like those wannabes at music stores that are like.. watch me, i can SHREEEDDD!!! and then the stuff they play is totaly off and incomprehencible.
and you need to start typing properly, cos the "HOW can you say they're bad, and all that being silly", leaves an impression that you have been impressed.
i must admit.. todays band like dragonsuck, trivium and A7x are bringing guitar back into mainstream, but in such a mediocre way, i'd rather see them hang the guitars on the wall and just walk away. they're all a bunch of poseours, that got big on the stupidity of people.. or should i say sheeple.
edit:
i also like to argue.. especialy when i'm right
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dude i know exactly how to type... but as i said... the problem lies with your reading... as i have repeatedly said i dont like them at all...
i dont think the way theyre bringing it back is mediocre as such... just not the way i would like to see... apart from A7x who can't be compared to Trivium/Dragonforce at all in my opinion...
dude youve obviously got a clear agenda against them (and me for some reason)... so nothing i say is gonna even have an affect on you... your totally narrow-minded and ignorant in insulting their playing the way you are man... just being a typical fan-boy of something who slates everything they dont like...
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If you want a REAL Betcha' can't play this then check out Jeff Loomis from Nevermore, this is actually impossible!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCZKYoaOBBc&mode=related&search=
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dude youve obviously got a clear agenda against them (and me for some reason)... so nothing i say is gonna even have an affect on you... your totally narrow-minded and ignorant in insulting their playing the way you are man... just being a typical fan-boy of something who slates everything they dont like...
(http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif)(http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif)(http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif)(http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif)
so i'm narrow minded for stating the obvious?
besides i cant insult their playing more, than they do themselves already.
and, i'm a typical fanboy of "something who slates everything they dont like". you came up with that yourself? wow, you must be realy good in the putting words together and the coming out way. i'm impressed
not.
pansy
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:? whatever man, lose the arrogance.
EDIT: just so you know what i meant: "typical fanboy of something; who slates everything they dont like"...
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:? whatever man, lose the arrogance.
no, it suits me.
besides, it helps weed out poseours like you.
why do i waste my time with you again?? oh.. i havent got anything better to do today.
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ok i was gonna let this slide... but what the F_UCK are you talking about you c--ky bas.tard... ?
you know NOTHING about who i am how the hell can you call me a poser?
go and insult some other little kids man... maintain your ego.
EDIT: and what this 'poseours' all about?.... you were the one telling ME to learn how to type... :?
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hey guys cool it eh?
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You kiss your mother with that mouth sambo?
Keep arguments like that off the forum guys - it's costing BKP money in wasted bandwidth...
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im sorry, you pick ME out as the worse one in all of this? thats a joke...
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ok i was gonna let this slide... but what the $%&# are you talking about you c--ky bar-steward... ?
you know NOTHING about who i am how the hell can you call me a poser?
go and insult some other little kids man... maintain your ego.
oh, i know enough of how you are. i've seen kids like you in and out. one can get a pretty good impression of how a person is through the way they post..
and i've seen enough.
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you know i really actually hate people like you... i really actually HATE them... your judging me from what ive said on a guitar pickup forum... your actually judging me as a person and HOW i am... calling me a poser.. without even explaining what it is im supposed to be like...
i bet you come away from this with a real sense of victory... well good for you...
get a life man,
oh and just to clarify... you dont know me in the slightest...
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i bet you come away from this with a real sense of victory... well good for you...
no, not realy... i just wasted some time and waited for my dinner to be ready.
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how sad and pathetic.
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so your not gonna tell me...?
your inbox must be full or something...
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i dunno how anybody can say dragonforce "suck", it might not be to your liking but they definately do not suck, and they may seem a little sloppy at times....but so do a lot of guitarists, i've seen Zakk Wylde play live and his picking hand was all over the place at times!!!
If you listen to a song called starfire by dragonforce, you'll hear how good they can be, and i'm not saying that as one of their biggest fans.
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im sorry, you pick ME out as the worse one in all of this? thats a joke...
No, I just referred to your use of foul language :wink:
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yer you picked me out... BY referring to my use of foul language lol... :evil: :lol: :evil:
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Come on children, play nicely - if you can say something nice, then don't say anything at all :wink: :roll:
One thing is certain though, I couldn't give a rats arse if they can play the cleanest swept arpeggios the world has ever seen - their music SUCKS SO BAD that it doesn't matter. I thought they were a wind-up when I first saw them on the tv, they obviously didn't take anything positive away from watching Spinal Tap.
:twisted:
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Haha, maybe i shouldn't have made this thread. There is too much hate in this thread, and it was a joke thread anyway, i wasn't actually being serious. I can prove that because i'm going to see Dragonforce in a few months lol!
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lol good thread.
That video was a total mess around, its tongue in cheek not a serious challenge (like some of the other ones in the series seem to be), and if anyone knew anything about the band they would see they are all class A jokers and dont take themselves seriously...i mean how funny is not being able to play your own riff in a 'betcha cant play this' video? Pure Spinal Tap.
If Dragonforce suck so much and arent talented, then why is YouTube full of copy cat players who CANT EVEN GET CLOSE to the solos and songs, where as every man and his dog on youtube can nail Vai, Satch and yngwie licks to a T?? :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXodez0Axcg
^^ that one is better if you want 'proof' (3 albums of insane playing not enough?), another mess about clip with some fast, cleanly played licks in it.
I agree they arent always good live (if ever!), i have seen them 4 times and only once did they NAIL it (Graspop 2005). They were on about 11:30am, every band after didnt seem to match up to the showmanship, energy and entertainment value... and there were some killer bands (in status) that day.
I agree with the ignorance comments, i CANT STAND jimi hendrix or SRV and fusion stuff like Shawn Lane and Guthrie, but i realise and respect their skills as players all the same...
DF may make shite music to some peoples ears, but they are a talented bunch and calling them talentless and shite is a bit of slap in the face to anyone who couldnt do a 1/4 of what they do (and i bet that includes EVERYONE whos bashed them on this and other threads) yet is inspired to put the hours in to practice and get to a level where they can play the same type of music.
Fair enough opinion = i dont like them
Gets on my nerves = they are shite and talentless = Statement of fact by a person who is judging them as if they are themselves the all powerful law of who can like who for what reasons
I always say: if XXX band is so shite and talentless and you hate it that others think otherwise, then record a cover of a song of theirs or play BETTER stuff over a backing track, and guess what? YOU CANT :lol:
Seems to be a trend these days of bashing bands outright with the ole blinkers on, the Blabbermouth generation of 'music fans' is here it seems :twisted:
/rant off, and by the way, i feel the same about any musician\band.. eg Kirk Hammett, Trivium, Cradle Of Filth etc etc not just DF
*edit* wow what a rant, i typed it now so have to stand by it :P
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I'm really into technical guitar playing and its quite clear Dragonforce do not suck in terms of technique. If anyone has the audacity to contradict me please post a recording of yourself playing something by them? Also stop having a go at them calling them a joke it shows lack of self esteem. Theres lots of music we don't all like but how depressing would it be if we just spent time saying it sucks, why it sucks.
Oh yea Crazy_Joe is the DEVIL!
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^ ^ Its far cooler to bash and stand at a gig not moving giving a band the finger than it is to HAVE FUN :lol:
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they're all a bunch of poseours . . .
Unlike Yngwie. :roll:
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Also stop having a go at them calling them a joke it shows lack of self esteem.
Or too much self esteem, perhaps.
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This thread is a real sad one to read as there are some really unwelcome personal issues being raised and this board has never been the place for that.
Keeping a sense of perpective and good will on this board is really the only issue that I give a sh*t about not DF.
Sadly my glib past participation within this thread is limited to agreement regarding a comment about quality control.
I think it's silly to let anything into the public domain which could result in a negative impact on your (band's) image.
A first view and literal interpretation of their "Betcha can't play this" vid does just that. They come off looking bad.
The alternative view is that the video is satirical and done as a pisstake - if so they unfortunatly didn't make that clear enough and once again missed the mark.
Either way, if I managed them that video would have never seen the light of day.
Let's stick a fork in this topic... it's done.
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:D
1 st My comments were based at making sure you guys on this forum would be aware that there is Quality control issues with what you do as Afghan pointed out the band didn`t do convincingly which is why they came over badly. Correct !
2 The argument that goes "if you can do it better" is & has allways been the most banal & F***wited argument any moron can give.......why?.......Because it denies anybody the right to an opinion or to be able to voice an opinion. The writer Nick Hornby in his book "Fever Pitch" wrote. "In sport you get found out, you don`t hear about bad 100 meter runners or of some world class striker living in some garret in poverty somewhere dieing for his art. It`s not like being an actor or a musician or writer....in sport you get found out".
The trueth is NOT the same in the arts. If the argument is "if you can do it better or do it to prove to me blah blah " then this must mean that the Spice Girls are better than everybody on this forum & most if not all of the current Metal,Rock,Pop acts in the world. Why ? because they sold more albums & singles than all of the current lot including The Arctic Monkeys so "if you can do it better" still feel the same way about that argument now do we.......[ & i didn`t even mention Take That or Steps or the X factor etc etc]
The trueth is i`m entitled to my opinion even if you don`t like it & believe it or not i`m also entitled to express it. If you want me to list my reasons why i don`t like DF then i will. I put in my threads to show that i wasn`t disliking them for banal reasons ie there heavy Metal etc.. thats why i mentioned Power Quest. 2 members of which come from DF !!
I accept fully that there are people on this forum that DO like DF great !! i`m very happy for them. There also [& some did ] entitled to say they do. Thats great to ! but i`m allowed as are others to disagree with them.
Your right i probably cant play as fast as they can BUT i can write better Metal tunes & play with more feeling than they do. Wether i get a record deal or not or wether i get to tour around the world or not will have nothing what so ever to do with wether i`m talented or not BUT wether i get lucky or not. Which is why talentless F***wits can still have hit singles & music careers. As Nick Hormby said "In sport you get found out" BUT not in the arts you dont !!
Now you can stick a fork in it because its done.........
:D 8)
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not quite lol.... just to close my involvement in this... Chrisola- that nailed everything i was getting at.... perfect.
and Jt., i have no problem with your disliking of dragonforce, as you stated in a reasonable way... but people who just slate get right on my nervs.
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I only read this topic out of a morbid facination
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/20/usb_rechargeable_standard_batteries/
Yeah totally off topic but it's better for the soul.
Rob... (distrasction the combatants often works)
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To me, Dragonforce are a bit of a novelty band. I liked them at first because they were fun and its pretty obvious they arent serious. Just started to get bored of them as every song/solo started to sound the same to me. Talented players though, no doubt.
There was a live video I saw on youtube (not sure whether someone posted it here or not) where their playing was truly awful and thats when I thought "will you just be quiet now" :lol:
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JT I find it interesting that you say you can write better songs than dragonforce and also you play with more feeling. just out of interest how do you know you play with more feeling and how do you know you can write better songs? Do you have anything to back this up?
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Must admit to being really sad/disappointed after reading the previous pages of this thread.
I think the BKP forum must be one of the best in terms of quality of posts, information etc. - it would be a shame if it disintegrated into the shambles of some of the other music forums - there are already signs of some of the long term members leaving/not bothering to post.
I'm probably one of the oldest members on this forum. Age has its disadvantages (e.g. wrinkles, hair falling out and growing in places where you don't want it to :( ) but you do tend to learn a few lessons along the way. Here's a few things I've learnt over the years:-
1 - Every opinion/point of view is bound to have an opposite - I'm afraid no amount of name calling/profanities will change that (Newton's 3rd law - "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction")
2- Just because you personally don't like a certain band or type of music doesn't automatically mean it's cr@p. (It's like saying "I use Warpigs in my guitars - therefore Apaches are cr@p"). I used to have a very narrow taste in music but my son got me listening to stuff I would never have considered and this has greatly expanded my music tastes and influenced/improved my guitar playing. There has been some stuff I have really disliked but then will hear a neat guitar line and steal it and adapt to my own playing style. Open your mind up to other styles.
3 - However good you are, or think you are, there is ALWAYS someone (many in my case) better than you.
4 - Anger/hate is a very destructive feeling. If you really feel strongly about a comment or opinion someone has expressed don't lash out and call them names - try a logical 'tongue in cheek' approach.
It would be great if the posters on the previous pages have had time to cool down a bit and realise the futility of some of what they have written - but I think it's probably a bit too early for them to kiss and make up..
Anyone wants to call me names after reading this it's OK - I've been called most of them already :wink:
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they're all a bunch of poseours . . .
Unlike Yngwie. :roll:
at least he can play guitar.
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Must admit to being really sad/disappointed after reading the previous pages of this thread.
I think the BKP forum must be one of the best in terms of quality of posts, information etc. - it would be a shame if it disintegrated into the shambles of some of the other music forums - there are already signs of some of the long term members leaving/not bothering to post.
I'm probably one of the oldest members on this forum. Age has its disadvantages (e.g. wrinkles, hair falling out and growing in places where you don't want it to :( ) but you do tend to learn a few lessons along the way. Here's a few things I've learnt over the years:-
1 - Every opinion/point of view is bound to have an opposite - I'm afraid no amount of name calling/profanities will change that (Newton's 3rd law - "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction")
2- Just because you personally don't like a certain band or type of music doesn't automatically mean it's cr@p. (It's like saying "I use Warpigs in my guitars - therefore Apaches are cr@p"). I used to have a very narrow taste in music but my son got me listening to stuff I would never have considered and this has greatly expanded my music tastes and influenced/improved my guitar playing. There has been some stuff I have really disliked but then will hear a neat guitar line and steal it and adapt to my own playing style. Open your mind up to other styles.
3 - However good you are, or think you are, there is ALWAYS someone (many in my case) better than you.
4 - Anger/hate is a very distructive feeling. If you really feel strongly about a comment or opinion someone has expressed don't lash out and call them names - try a logical 'tongue in cheek' approach.
It would be great if the posters on the previous pages have had time to cool down a bit and realise the futility of some of what they have written - but I think it's probably a bit too early for them to kiss and make up..
Anyone wants to call me names after reading this it's OK - I've been called most of them already :wink:
Hoorah, voice of wisdom and reason.
Shame it will fall on alot of deaf ears (kinda funny really as we are in a pickup forum which by design needs auditory perception LOL).
BTW, don't ya just HATE that relocation of body hair cr@p, sheesh, who wants to grow old :)
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they're all a bunch of poseours . . .
Unlike Yngwie. :roll:
at least he can play guitar.
Yeah. I was just having fun. Probably silly to do it in the middle of a heated thread, but, ah well.
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I find many parallels between Malmsteen and Dragonforce, ESPECIALLY in this context. If you look at the some of the Yngwie tuition clips on Youtube you'll see that often he sounds dreadful and hesitant when showing stuff slowly. This is in most likelihood because A) lot's of players throw out rhythm at extreme high speeds and B) lot's of players rely on speed to overcome melodic shortcomings at extreme speeds, often just ripping through scale shapes and using regular accentuation of chord tones to create an overall melodic effect. The consequence of this is that when you slow it down it sounds dreadful. Also, with tapping and sweeping licks you just don't have the muscle memory to pull it off smoothly at slower tempos.
This is what I really love about Paul Gilbert, and why I find his tuition stuff really valuable, because he always places emphasis on rhythm and melody, and consequently his stuff sounds great at 60bpm (except the drill stuff obviously).
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if you check youtube for that friedman and rolly vs dragonsuck video, you'll see that they are just about slightly over an average guitarists skill, but are hiding that behind MASSIVE ammounts of compression, distortion and a whammy being used 50 times in a solo.
Firstly, dragonsuck has to be one of the most stupid insults I've ever seen in my entire life. And secondly, an average guitarist can't get close to soloing at 215bpm with 16th notes. Most probably couldn't handle playing that fast given time to learn the parts. And very few could play that fast drunk without being sloppy.
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This is what I really love about Paul Gilbert, and why I find his tuition stuff really valuable, because he always places emphasis on rhythm and melody, and consequently his stuff sounds great at 60bpm (except the drill stuff obviously).
+1 on Paul Gilbert.
oh and +1 on GD's comments too.
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This is what I really love about Paul Gilbert, and why I find his tuition stuff really valuable, because he always places emphasis on rhythm and melody, and consequently his stuff sounds great at 60bpm (except the drill stuff obviously).
Agreed, Gilbert is one of the only shredders I can stand listening to, he has the ability but doesnt abuse it and still makes songs which rock instead of boring neoclassical stuff :)
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I don't think you can compare Malmsteen to Dragonforce - Yngwie's speed evolved in his attempts to emulate the fast classical pieces he'd heard played on other instruments, whereas Dragonforce play fast as a novelty element in their music, almost as if guitar playing was some sort of sport. That's why Yngwie doesn't c--k up at every speed when you see him on videos - he's playing for himself, not as some sort of speed competition.
If you listen to most of Yngwie's stuff on Rising Force for example, those runs just wouldn't sound right played slowly - he plays fast because it fits the music he's trying to create. You have to put it into context - he was really the only person playing this fast when he came out, and wasn't 'competing' with anyone for speed, but many of the guitarists that came after (DF included) turned guitar playing into a sport. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but I don't care much for it personally.
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i dont know enough about yngwie to comment on that...
but id just say... i think pretty much all guitarists in any kind of guitar-based band, plays for themselves... not as some sort of speed competition... i mean obviously... in some ways... theyre competing with other people for speed... but i wouldnt say that they play like they do JUST for the soul purpose of being fast...
then again... its one of those questions that only they can know the real answer to yer know... its impossible for me to say they why they play the way they do... as i have no way of knowing (only they themselves know.)
its a tricky one... and very hard to judge.
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This is what I really love about Paul Gilbert, and why I find his tuition stuff really valuable, because he always places emphasis on rhythm and melody, and consequently his stuff sounds great at 60bpm (except the drill stuff obviously).
+3 on Paul Gilbert - extremely talented whether you like shredding or not - as Sifu Ben said he has rhythym and melody.
After reading the September 2005 Guitar Techniques mag which featured him and a transcription of Scarified I feel a little less defeated, after struggling with the first few of the 90 bars in this, by looking at the picture of him holding his two Ibanez guitars - whereas I seem to have got a few short fag-ends grafted on the end of my hands for fingers, he seems to have got a couple of giant squids. (the end of my fingers appear to be where his 2nd joint is :( )
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:D As it goes i completely agree about P.Gilbert his a very good player & i very much like his sense of Fun also.
The Yngwie / DF argument is actually not a bad comparison. Every guitar & for that matter non guitar player i`ve met really admire the guys playing ability but almost to a man they cant stand the music he makes !! LOL
I personnaly have nothing against DF i think they`ve jumped on a band wagon of "We can play faster than anyone etc" & they have done. For me personnaly it just isnt inspiring & i think in the genre they play in ie Power Metal with sword & sorcery style lyrics that Power Quest do it better. maybe not as fast as DF but for my money better. I will listen & look forwards to DF next release i hope that it has far better songs on it & that they loose the urge to play everything at 1000mph, so it gives there songs more dynamics. but will wait & see. I firmly believe that DF are helping to get UK based Metal bands back on the map & i also firmly believe that there are members of this forum that will go on to have sucessfull careers in music. I`m personnaly waiting & preying for The New Wave Of British Heavy Metal - The 2nd Wave [ if we had a headbangin` icon this is were i`d use it !!] & if DF are helping to make that happen then more power to there elbow BUT it wont change my opinion of them or the music they make.
My initail comments were to make all of us aware about Quality control, & having a professional attitude to it. [QC that is]
My rant was about people trying to deny any of us the right to an opinion based on the "What have you done argument" ie if you havn`t achieved what they have you dont get the right or have the right to criticise. This is planely nonsense otherwise we would all have to accept that "Posh Spice" has more talent than anyone on this forum & she cant be criticised either !!!
As for this argument on this Thread. I think that for the most part most people were being fare & honest. Some people agreed some didn`t but most were willing to listen/read what others had said. Personnally i think that shows a great sense of maturity & lets be fare & honest here guys we wont all agree on things. But its not unreasonable for people to express an opinion here, even if you dont or do agree with it.
As for me being a better song writer & playing with more feel than what i`ve heard from DF...........Its just my opinion & i`m entitled to it !!! LOL
And before you ask i`m planning at some point [in the near`ish future ] to record some material both instrumental & band based & then you can hear it & make up your own minds !! fare enough ?
:D 8)
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Can we maybe put this thread to rest fellas?
It's kind of run it's course with enough points made on both sides of the arguement, and won't really benefit from continued debate.
It has raged on and not brought out the best in some of us.
Opinions are just that - personal and subjective and we can agree to differ
Lets not allow this forum to degenerate into an unfriendly place for any of us
There has been a bit of sniping on the boards of late and previously we have managed to avoid that - can we please return to treating each other with consideration and respect.
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:D + 1
:D 8)
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... and you...
i appreciate that it might all be sloppy... but starting to question whether theyre overrated or not judging by one video isnt exactly fair/wise is it....
if you get what im saying
Overrated, maybe, but top notch muscians, yes....
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(http://coh.upallnightgaming.com/content/heroimages/deadhorse_1024x768.jpg)
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They had no sense of dynamics- - no light and shade
It was all 100mph stuff and the same with the vocals
As for the I bet you cant play this clips
check out the Michael Romeo clip
Very musical and pleasant to listen to
There is a guy who has a lot of control over his playing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj5iD__lX04
Romeo can play timing is everything.
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(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a99/chrisola/switchhoff-1.jpg)
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LMFAO!!!
that is abso$%&#inlutely brilliant!!!
on/Hoff
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This thread has run its course.