Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: Crazy_Joe on September 21, 2006, 07:48:24 PM
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I could be the biggest guitar n00b ever, as i can't re-string my guitars.
I have bought 3 packs of strings in the last 2 days and have broken about 5 strings altogether.
On the first guitar my guitar teacher did the first one for me, got home and started winding the next one, when all of a sudden the one my guitar teacher put on snapped, i wasn't even touching or winding that string and it snapped. Seriously pissed off.
Then, on the second guitar it had different tuners so the first time was understandable that it broke because i was doing it wrong, but now i know and i got 2 strings on fine, then this 3rd one won't go on, every time i lose the tension and now it is even harder because the end of the string is all coiled up, i don't have a string winding tool, it's pissing me off so much and i might have to buy 2 more packets if this 3rd one doesn't go on.
I was going to leave it in protest and not play my guitar for a week until when my teacher would do it for me, but i will try again, but if it doesn't go on i will be childish and i won't play my guitar. That's how pissed off i am!
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Perhaps this will help.
http://www.cyberfret.com/gear-tech/changing-strings/page2.php
Always difficult at first. I remember when I first tried it I ended up going back to the shop that sold the guitar to get them to show me how. You'll find it easy after you've done it a few times :)
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I have done it once before, but never had this much trouble with it, it's like there's too much string, it just keeps going and going and in the end it can't fit on and it just comes off. I'm definatley doing it right though. It might be that i switched to 10 guage, i used 9 before. That could explain it, but still it's only a 10 guage, it shouldn't happen.
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How far are you pulling the string through the tuner? It sounds like you're putting the end of the string level with the tuner and winding it all the way through - 'cause that could cause the problem you're describing...
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The biggest problem that new players have with restringing and tuning is not knowing instintively the pitches that the strings need to be
As a result they rely upon an electronic tuner and often overtigten the string and it breaks as they have gone past the right tuning point and are searching for the right note in the WRONG octave (usually an octave too high)
I have always maintained that tuning to an audible reference is a better way to get accustomed- whether it be another (in tune ) guitar or to a recording of the notes played at the right tuning
Many tutor books, free CDs and websites have a tuning guide that you can listen to and tune up to. Or record each string tuned right before you change them and play it back when you need to
Joe - what guitar do you have?
Joe - also please change the title of the thread to indicate it's content. You can keep the emoticon but add something else to it or else it helps nobody
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I know what you mean about the "too much string" problem, I still get it occasionally, after 25+ years! But if anything, there should be less problem with 10s than 9s - because the strings are a tiny bit thicker, a single wrap round the post uses up slightly more length of string.
Jonathan made a good point about the possible reasons for the strings snapping. On top of that, have you got trem systems on your guitars (apart from the Explorer of course)? In that case removing one or more string puts the others under increased tension.
I suggest locking tuners. Much less hassle!
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ooh, I kinda thought you were abit more experienced than this with all your posts and enquiries.
Oh well, no worries.
It 'sounds', as hard to tell, you are putting too much string through the peg.
I pretty much do it by experience but a guide is to use your hand on the neck (bout 12th fret) in a 'shake hands' position (tuck ya thumb in so only four fingers. When this is done you should have more than enough to wind and can cut the string at the peg. This will allow a good length. Another tip (if you have not been told/shown) is to bend the end of the string at right angles to the peg (in the opposite direction you are going to wind it on).
There is NO hard and fast rule to re-stringing.
Check that link and be PATIENT and slow. There is no rush, you WILL get it mate :)
NOT trying to make it harder than is already, but when you are confident they are on good and tight (at the post, don't WRENCH em tight tuning at this point) give em a pull away from the neck at about mid point, this stretches em and makes tuning easier/more stable.
Hope this helps abit.
We ALL go through it, don't get mad, get wise and take ya time :)
Good Luck!
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It is the guage, I'm sure of it. There is too much string, it just doesn't all fit on the pegs. Also my teacher said the tuners on this explorer are like bass ones, where you put the string in the hole vertically and then wind. I'll take a picture of how it looks like and show you.
My guitar is a Jap Tokai Explorer (Ex-85)
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Joe,
do what I said with string length, or there abouts.
Then, bend end at right angle to fit into peg (like fender), then hand wind around peghead before using tuner.
Then proceed from there.
Sounds like you are def. using tooooooooo much string and over tightening to me.
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Also the low e string doesn't really fit into the nut properly, another reason why it could be guage size.
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I know the right angle bend trick and all that etc. but these are different tuners than i am used to, they are like bass ones apparently.
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then I would say the nut is not up to snuff. 10's are not exactly BIG, summit is up Joe and you sound frustrated. Deep breath and look at the mechanics of the whole thing and give more info if poss.
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hmmm yer if the string doesnt fit in the nut... there is definately something dodgy... i mean... Zakk Wylde sig strings have .72 guage E strings... so if 10s dont fit... something strange is happening me thinks
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I am very frustrated, it's re-stringing at guitar for gods sake, not rocket science, i've done it before. Pics coming soon...
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Joe, just looked at your guitar again, they are not what I would call Bass Tuners. It is the 'fender' style is all.
Go step by step.
Try a string in the nust without tension.
OK?
Then try stringing as I mentioned.
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(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Sandman666/IMGP0501.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Sandman666/IMGP0500.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Sandman666/IMGP0499.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/Sandman666/IMGP0502.jpg)
They are all on apart from the low e string, though i am not happy with the A & D windings, looks like there is too much string on it.
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read this again young Joe
TOO MUCH STRING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
or, just ignore me, makes no odds to me :twisted:
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Joe, you do realise you can cut the ends of the strings off, right? Generally when I'm stringing my guitar I'll end up with about 15-20cm of each string that I'll cut. You don't need to wrap the whole thing around the pegs. In fact it's better if you don't, an evenly wrapped (so it looks like a slinky, with no wind overlapping any others) stringing with maybe 3-4 winds around each the peg will give much better tuning stability (something I seem to forget every single time I put on a G string. Must be too busy coming up with bad jokes).
The one your guitar teacher put on probably snapped because of a sharp bit of metal on the bridge or something similar, if it just snapped when you weren't doing anything with it.
edit - in light of the pics, that's your problem. Thread the string through the hole in the peg so you've got say 15cm hanging out the other side, then wind. Just watch out for sharp string ends poking you in the eye while you're doing it. Just before you start winding, if you hold the string in place at the peg, a good measure is (as dakine said) that you should be able to get the width of your hand under it, or maybe a bit less for the thicker strings.
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I have a stringing technique which I found out from off the internet, but I cant find the link anymore so I'll draw up a classic ms paint diagram for you :lol:
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ooh, I kinda thought you were abit more experienced than this with all your posts and enquiries.
Funny thing - internet forums
Can almost be misleading without trying
You can post so much and be so prolific that you can give the illusion of being an expert when you are very new to the subject (and just enthusiastic)
Anyway - I always tell people that they need to wind 2 inches (5cm)of slack string onto posts of non locking tuners - other than the Kluson safti-post ones (split shaft) as fitted to many old Fenders
So measure 2"/5cm on the string past the tuner's entry hole and put a 90 degree bend in the string
Slide the string through the hole in the tuner up to the bend and bend the string that has passed through back the other way so that it looks like a zig-zag with the tuners post in the middle.
Then wind the string on allowing the first wind to go over the top of the string threaded through (the tail) and once it has passed over the next 1-2 winds go under the tail giving about 2-3 turns in all with the string being held slightly down at an angle by the winds under the tail.
Tune up to pitch
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^won't bloody help iffin he don't listen and cut the strings first :)
'I paid for it and dammit I'm gonna get me's money's worth!', sorry could'nt resist, NO harm meant :)
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Ok all of you moaning at me can shhhh because i tried shortening it and the low e won't fit in the nut. Explain that one.
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ooh, I kinda thought you were abit more experienced than this with all your posts and enquiries.
Funny thing - internet forums
Can almost be misleading without trying
You can post so much and be so prolific that you can give the illusion of being an expert when you are very new to the subject (and just enthusiastic)
Anyway - I always tell people that they need to wind 2 inches (5cm)of slack string onto posts of non locking tuners.
So measure 2"/5cm on the string past the tuner's entry hole and put a 90 degree bend in the string
Slide the string through the hole in the tuner up to the bend and bend the string that has passed through back the other way so that it looks like a zig-zag with the tuners post in the middle.
Then wind the string on allowing the first wind to go over the top of the string threaded through (the tail) and once it has passed over the next 1-2 winds go under the tail giving about 2-3 turns in all with the string being held slightly down at an angle by the winds under the tail.
Tune up to pitch
Abit of a dig I know, but meant in sarcy british jest.
Trying bloody hard here to help, but so far to no avail.
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different issue Joe.
Did you try putting it in the nut on it's own, No tension,Not strung etc. Just the string itself?
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Out of interest, what's this talk of 90 degree bends? I don't see the point...
Ok all of you moaning at me can shhhh because i tried shortening it and the low e won't fit in the nut. Explain that one.
Ok, the space in your nut for the string is too narrow. Which is a bit odd, probably a factory c--k up.
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Well heres my simplified stringing diagram, hopefully its not too hard to figure out. Seems to hold my strings in tune well and is quick and easy to do.
(http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7926/stringingux1.png)
Although not sure if this may be your problem but its worth a shot.
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Ok all of you moaning at me can shhhh because i tried shortening it and the low e won't fit in the nut. Explain that one.
Joe, it might be that the nut slot is too small, but I notice you have the strings winding clockwise (on the left hand side of the tuners). You'll get a straighter angle across the nut - at least for the low E and A strings - if you wind them anticlockwise (on the right hand side).
Hope that helps!
Phil
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different issue Joe.
Did you try putting it in the nut on it's own, No tension,Not strung etc. Just the string itself?
Yes and it didn't fit too well. I have to say the craftmanship on this nut looks pretty cr@ppy now looking at it.
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Joe - you are winding the strings on the wrong way
they need to emerge from the other side of the tuning posts
Heres how to do it on the split shaft safeti-posts as fitted to your guitar
Measure 3 inches (7cm or about 3 fingers worth) past the post that the string goes into
Cut the string at 3 inches (7cm etc) past the post
Stick the end of the string down the middle of the post - there is a small hole
and bend the string down through the gap in the side of the machine head
Wind the string on allowing each wind to go under the previous one
Ensure that the strings are leaving the tuning peg from UNDERNEATH the peg - not above
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Out of interest, what's this talk of 90 degree bends? I don't see the point...
kinda double anchor point is all. There is NO definitive way to string, depends how taught ya/how ya learnt.
IMO, it aids holding for winding and anchors, just way I do it :)
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Gay, i think i did it the wrong way round, i should have gone anti-clockwise. :(
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Joe, it might be that the nut slot is too small, but I notice you have the strings winding clockwise (on the left hand side of the tuners). You'll get a straighter angle across the nut - at least for the low E and A strings - if you wind them anticlockwise (on the right hand side).
Hope that helps!
Phil
Good point, always wind for the straighter string pull. And don't be put off if you can't figure out which way the strings need to go, that usually takes me a good ten minutes overall.
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Joe - you are winding the strings on the wrong way
they need to emerge from the other side of the tuning posts
Heres how to do it on the split shaft safeti-posts as fitted to your guitar
Measure 3 inches (7cm or about 3 fingers worth) past the post that the string goes into
Cut the string at 3 inches (7cm etc) past the post
Stick the end of the string down the middle of the post - there is a small hole
and bend the string down through the gap in the side of the machine head
Wind the string on allowing each wind to go under the previous one
Ensure that the strings are leaving the tuning peg from UNDERNEATH the peg - not above
Well caught, my damn ear feels like it's about it explode/implode (doctor visit I fear), completely missed that.
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Dang, $%&# i have to buy 2 more packs of strings now!
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lol your ear??!?!?!?!
and yer well spotted jonathon... i cant believe i didnt notice that..!
so simple....
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NOT enjoyable, but, when learning, money lost does tend to make you remember (kinda hard way of doing things but we've ALL been there one way or another bud, it's ok).
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I'm not buying those D'Addario strings from Machinehead again, they cost me a fortune!
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lol your ear??!?!?!?!
and yer well spotted jonathon... i cant believe i didnt notice that..!
so simple....
yep, many many years diving, flying in planes, helo's, now been on dry land and one place for while and my ear is in immense pain :evil:
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I'm not buying those D'Addario strings from Machinehead again, they cost me a fortune!
dude dont buy ANYTHING from machinehead again... :lol: :lol:
and nick... ahhh... sucks... just one of them thuogh?!??!!
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just one of them thuogh?!??!!
translate please lil alien person :roll:
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lol... just one of your ears!
i mean.. its not like just ONE of your ears went diving and flying is it...!
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nope but I like to play guitar, not paint in Holland so two working might be nice :twisted:
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well I'm outta here to hunt down some legal drugs to take for pain.
GOOD luck Joe, you will get it!
If the nut on low E is still an issue with 10's you might need a luthier. Am sure Feline will give ya an idea what to expect.
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I'm not buying those D'Addario strings from Machinehead again, they cost me a fortune!
www.stringsdirect.co.uk have some good prices on most strings.
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on my gibsons the lower strings don't disappear down into the nut, they sort of sit in a groove, about half the string in, held there by the tension. i always thought that too deep a groove in the nut only caused more friction, leading to tuning problems. so, unless your strings just won't stay in place even when tuned, i reckon your nut's probably alright. just frustration boiling over and making you see extra problems? probably best to leave it until at least tomorrow and come back with a calmer head (unless by now you've already lost it and thrown the guitar out the window!! :oops: )
as Dakine said, don't worry, you'll get it, and you'll remember all the better 'cause of the hassle
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If your guitar had 9's on it it is possible that the nut was cut to except 9's. 10's are bigger (stating the obvious i know) they might be a little tight in the slot which would cause them to stick and possibly snap at that point. You know if this is happening because the string will snap where it goes through the nut.
The remedy to this situation involes running a little bit of fine sandpaper through the slot to widen it a little, on the wound strings you can use a spare bit of the string as a file to widen them. Do not deepen the slot because the strings will be too low and buzz on the frets if you do it wrong.
I like to have my windings going from 2 on the post for the low E to about 6 on the post for the high e with the others somewhere in between. It doesnt always happen that way but i am usually close, it just takes practice. They should be neat and even without kinks or overlaps..
When restringing i usually put the string though the post (or in it on bass style tuners) and do one wrap by hand over the top of the hole to start me off. My thumb holds the string close to the headstock to make sure the rest of the windings go underneath the first and the other fingers hold the string taught above the nut whilst i roughly tune. Keeping tension on the string as you tune gives you much more even windings and therefore less tuning problems