Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: catag on September 24, 2006, 09:41:28 PM
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I am new to the forum and i wondered if anyone has used the Marshall Handwired series? I am specifically interested in the 2061 head and cab but would welcome any feedback on the combo's as well.
Thanks :P
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Hello :)
I'm not sure which amp it was I used, but I tried 1 of the 18w combos out in a local music shop a few months back.
I cranked it up a bit (I was the only person in the shop) and to be honest, I wasn't that impressed by it. It sounded a little thin and lacked balls. I personally preferred a Bluesbreaker combo that they had in :)
Not much use to you I know, but it's the best I can do :)
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Bainzy is the man who seems to know this one
Or read some opinions here http://www.metroamp.com/forum/
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Ask Bainzy. He modded his to have the correct transformer and stuff so it actually sounds like a real 1959SLP.
Personally I'd suggest just buying an older handwired Marshall from '69-'74 myself.
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Handwired is all a gimmick - you're paying for the insides to look nice which no-one ever sees!! There's no difference in tone from a good quality PCB. I'd just buy a "regular" Marshall if that's what you're after...
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There is a quality difference if it's done right (good wires, componant, etc...) but when I look back at the Marshall prod from the last 20 years, I feel pretty sure it's just all hype...
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I think there's a quality difference compared to a cheapo PCB and other components, but if a good PCB is used there's no difference at all. In fact, the PCB is probably less prone to failure. All you're paying for is the time it takes someone to wire everything up. It's marketing hype.
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For half the price they sell them for you can usually get a bespoke hand made one by a small company.
-Will
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The Variplex looks quite interestiing,
http://www.blankenshipamps.com/data/mainframe.htm
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Handwired is all a gimmick - you're paying for the insides to look nice which no-one ever sees!! There's no difference in tone from a good quality PCB. I'd just buy a "regular" Marshall if that's what you're after...
Sorry but that's total bollocks, PCB's have all sorts of probs in serious usage. 1) most of the control and interface (front / rear panel,inputs outputs etc) components are staked onto the board which leads to loads of dry joints when it's getting chucked in the back of the van on a regular basis (mass of component dangling about on joint, board dangling about on back of pots etc). 2) They retain heat which causes more temperature related shift in the value (electrical) of the components attached to them 3) the tracks are too fragile to be durable when getting chucked......etc; well that'll do I'm bored now. If you're a bedroom rock god it doesn't really matter but if you're gigging several nights a week a hard wired amp will give you years of un-interupted pleasure where as cheap shite modular PCB based amp will be back to the menders on a regular basis.
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For year on year gigging, the hand wired will most likely stand up better to running repairs.
Iv'e been known to to look at the odd repair for friends (nobody else would trust me) and the number of damaged tracks I have seen is frightening. With jumpers all over the boards to replace the lifted tracks
This is not always the fault of a ham fisted roadie / tech, not all PCBs are created equal. Also when a mfgr uses the solder joint for a pot as the sole method to secure the control well eventually something has to give (after the n'th replacement)
There is an interesting bit on this on the bogner site (somewhere) along with proper choice of the signal path.
PCBs are not bad in themselves, but the implementation often is.
The sound (price and reliability) of the amp should be the main criteria.
Rob...
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PCBs are not bad in themselves, but the implementation often is.
That's what I'm saying. The same amp with a decent PCB and wiring will sound no different and be no less reliable than a hand wired version of the same thing.
Sorry but that's total bollocks, PCB's have all sorts of probs in serious usage. 1) most of the control and interface (front / rear panel,inputs outputs etc) components are staked onto the board which leads to loads of dry joints when it's getting chucked in the back of the van on a regular basis (mass of component dangling about on joint, board dangling about on back of pots etc). 2) They retain heat which causes more temperature related shift in the value (electrical) of the components attached to them 3) the tracks are too fragile to be durable when getting chucked......etc
If you want to pay stupid cash for the benefit of being able to "chuck" your gear into a van then you're mental. I'd rather look after it properly and spend the extra cash elsewhere...
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Just checked:
Marshall 1959SLP re-ssue = £869
Marshall 1959HW re-issue = £1399
Does it really sound £530 (61%!!!) better or is it £530 (61%!!!) more reliable?
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There is a quality difference if it's done right (good wires, componant, etc...) but when I look back at the Marshall prod from the last 20 years, I feel pretty sure it's just all hype...
The new handwired amps aren't like the old ones. One of the big reasons is that the transformer is a poor replica of the wrong model. I think just swapping trannies will yield a pretty good result. That said, you can save a lot of money by buying an original, or buying a PCB reissue and getting a tranny swap.
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All very interesting ....I was actually looking at the small 2061x and 2061cx cab for the reason of simplicity ie plug and go as i am sick of mode this and switch that and also dare i say it the portability. The reviews the amps got in Guitairst and Guitar Buyer were good.
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I think just swapping trannies will yield a pretty good result. That said, you can save a lot of money by buying an original, or buying a PCB reissue and getting a tranny swap.
Tranny == valve ?
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Transformer. The big things in the circuit board, I'm sure someone will have a better description that me!
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I was wondering as I never heard of a transformer being referred to as a tranny (only transistors or cross dressers)
Rob...
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I think just swapping trannies will yield a pretty good result. That said, you can save a lot of money by buying an original, or buying a PCB reissue and getting a tranny swap.
Tranny == valve ?
Transformer. I probably spend too much time on tech forums (even though when it comes to getting my hands dirty, I can't do that shite at all) but they all call them trannies for short.
They play a big part in your overall sound. I put a '68-'80 1959SLP spec transformer in a Marshall JCM 900 SL-X, and now it sounds very massive and smooth where before it was a little thin and fizzy. It will also nail tones that it would never touch before, like the cleaner stuff like Led Zeppelin and stuff.
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Transformer. I probably spend too much time on tech forums (even though when it comes to getting my hands dirty, I can't do that shitee at all) but they all call them trannies for short.
They play a big part in your overall sound. I put a '68-'80 1959SLP spec transformer in a Marshall JCM 900 SL-X, and now it sounds very massive and smooth where before it was a little thin and fizzy. It will also nail tones that it would never touch before, like the cleaner stuff like Led Zeppelin and stuff.
I spent too much time in digital electronics course where transformers & valves where considered works of evil :)
I remember Marshall doing so much shouting about speccing the correct transformers, but somehow it dosn't surprise me that they chose the wrong one. Somehow that sums up the snatching defeat from the jaws of victory that many companys manage :(
Rob...
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Some of these 2061 heads and 1974 combos have had OT failures because Marshall under specced them. Those who have them replaced with better trannies have reported better sound and less heat (more reliability).
And as a comment, being handwired does not make anything inherently better or worse or equal. There are cr@p handwired amps and there are cr@p PCB amps. The wiring scheme is one small part of the overall amp-making formula.
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Having seen a HW 100w head and also had a HW-series OT I wouldn't say they're shitee. They're certainly better than the PCB amps, but I would say that the PCB amps can be modded to be better for less than the difference between the two models.
Also, anyone that buys a new Marshall valve amp is a f'in idiot - there are THOUSANDS of used Marshalls out there, save yourself some cash off the shop price.
:twisted:
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Thanks to everyone for opinions and feedback. I like the cab format a lot and have seen them s/h now and again. On the head front well i may have to have a try of a few options. At my age i can't be @rsed lugging 4x12's around but the 2x12 looks ideal. Maybe 2, 2x12's !!! :twisted:
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Transformer. I probably spend too much time on tech forums (even though when it comes to getting my hands dirty, I can't do that shitee at all) but they all call them trannies for short.
They play a big part in your overall sound. I put a '68-'80 1959SLP spec transformer in a Marshall JCM 900 SL-X, and now it sounds very massive and smooth where before it was a little thin and fizzy. It will also nail tones that it would never touch before, like the cleaner stuff like Led Zeppelin and stuff.
I spent too much time in digital electronics course where transformers & valves where considered works of evil :)
I remember Marshall doing so much shouting about speccing the correct transformers, but somehow it dosn't surprise me that they chose the wrong one. Somehow that sums up the snatching defeat from the jaws of victory that many companys manage :(
Rob...
I think I mentioned just swapping my tranny in a JCM 900 SL-X completely re-voiced the amp...
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oh cr@p, cross pond language barrier time ROFLMAO
fps_dean is cruising the streets for tranny's (titter), and Rob is gonna smoke a fag (teehee).
Oh what fun I had in Texas.
Will tell ya bout the 'torch' story one day, scary and abit racist though (it being down south).
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PCBs are not bad in themselves, but the implementation often is.
If you want to pay stupid cash for the benefit of being able to "chuck" your gear into a van then you're mental. I'd rather look after it properly and spend the extra cash elsewhere...
You think I'm mental? Where do you think the market is for point to point wired amps? It's with pro musicians not prats with more money than sense. It's obvious from your note that you're another bedroom rock god. It's impossible to avoid shocks and minor impacts if you're out gigging regularly; if you ever get to that point ie when you've got some rock ape slinging your gear into the van and not your Dad loading it carefully into the Volvo you'll appreciate what I'm saying.
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It's obvious from your note that you're another bedroom rock god
Nope, I gig locally on a regular basis.
It's impossible to avoid shocks and minor impacts if you're out gigging regularly
Yep, I know that. So does handwiring prevent shocks and impacts better than a PCB, using the same quality components? No, it doesn't.
if you ever get to that point ie when you've got some rock ape slinging your gear into the van and not your Dad loading it carefully into the Volvo you'll appreciate what I'm saying
I'm 31 years old and I'm quite capable of driving myself to a gig and unloading/loading my gear from my non-Volvo thank you very much.
I take it you're a successful professional musician touring the world with a gang of roadies looking after your gear? If so, how come you've got time to try and throw your weight around on an internet forum? Lighten up and listen to other peoples opinions - you might learn something.
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Did somebody mention listening to other peoples opinions? Did someone mention lightening up? Phrases like pots and kettles spring to mind here. It was was your rabid defence of your own opinion that caused me to take up the point since you have all the attributes of one who likes to throw their weight about a bit yourself; but this is counter productive I wish you all the best with your chosen view and I sincerely hope that your adherence to it never turns round and bites you in the arse.
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Did somebody mention listening to other peoples opinions? Did someone mention lightening up? Phrases like pots and kettles spring to mind here
Fair point.
I'd welcome a reasoned argument as to why handwired is better than PCB (all other things being equal). I've yet to hear one, and would be genuinely interested if you have one.
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the HW and the SLP doesnt sound the same, I'm NOT sayin' that one is better than the other, only that I think there are some caps in that change the tone (however they are not 2 different worlds its obvious), I think that people have to buy the one that they prefer.. the HW IMHO has a better tone but its very high priced, it gives you also the possibility to mod your amp completely in an easy way.. but in the end its all a matter of what you're searchin' and the money you have... try 'em and choose the best... for who thinks that old ones are better... maybe but I've seen many and I can say that only a 5% where completely stock, the other or have problems or have changes inside.. beware
PS : trannies thoeries are not true
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Now Mr Twinfan, and Mr rooky - lets all calm down slightly shall we? :P
Now Nick, please share this 'torch' story of which you speak - I'm sure we could all do with a good laugh :lol: (assuming it's a funny story - otherwise we don't really care :P)
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tis funny but tbh am sooooooo @@**&%$£%%** with this board right this minute I cannot be bothered!
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I agree Nick. It must be the phases of the moon or time of the month or summat :wink:
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I'm feeling too miserable to reply with anything worthwhile (even though I have an opinion on the matter)
Rob...
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I'm feeling too miserable to reply with anything worthwhile (even though I have an opinion on the matter)
Rob...
*manly hug* hope you feel better soon Mr Rob
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[quote="Twinfan Fair point.
I'd welcome a reasoned argument as to why handwired is better than PCB (all other things being equal). I've yet to hear one, and would be genuinely interested if you have one.[/quote]
Ok but I'm sorry, I can't make this short. The basic premise is that if you're going to spend loads of time (money) hand wiring an amp you're not going to compromise by knocking a few cents out of a component here and there. The tendancy with products with high assembly costs is that they will be built up to a standard and not down to a price; there is no market advantage in using high cost assembly techniques that deliver no advantage in performance or durability, it's fair to assume then that a hand wired amp will tend to have higher quality components than a more competatively priced amp.
In my original post I only mentioned the durability aspect because the performance is more subjective and would only attract lots of comments based on limited data (my mates VS100 sounds great etc). A few of the guys have mentioned transformers (transformers were called trannies long before transistors found their way into guitar amps). There's loads of cost advantage in using generic industry standard transformers and these, along with PCB's tend to be used in products that fall into the "down to a price" category. So those that spotted that simply changing the tranny gave a performance advantage were spot on. Another problem with PCBs is "cross talk". This is the contamination of a signal by induced voltages from conductors running close to and parallel to each other. Once a board has been put into production there is little scope to remedy this type of fault and the old "will they really notice" imperitive comes into play. In a hard wired amp there's plenty of scope to simply re-route the offending conductor.
The durability aspect is down the the fact that a hardwired amp will tend to have many of it's components attached to the front and rear panels and a central fibre or mica board or even a completely isolated PCB. The connections between these components will be via FLEXIBLE wiring. An amp with all PCBs will often have a large board hanging on the back of some of the panel mounted bits which despite separate chassis mounts will stress the soldered joints under any shock or vibration conditions, even vibration from the speakers. It can take years for this to manifest itself under light casual usage but believe me it happens. Only last week I repaired a five year old mixing desk that had been dropped two inches on one of the rare occssaions that it's ever moved and that highlighted more dry joints than you'd find at a Columbian spliff party. It's just simple physics.
Sorry to be so wordy but there's no other way to say it
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NOT read all of this (my sin) but HELLO!!!!!!!!!!
Stop bloody arguing for pities sakes.
And another thing, Hand Wired is a GREAT marketing ploy!
Whats that car on ads at moment? Proton or summit 'deigned by Lotus', MY ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A Lotus guy MAY have been employed but it AINT no Lotus.
Marketing 101!
ONLY way to give (ggod) advice is to own or be intimate with somthing, therefore gleaning the insight/experience that is usually requested by a poster.
Also, MANY nationalities peruse this board (great for Tim/BKP!!!!!!!) so language barriers exist. I, many moons ago, did my electrical apprentiship so know what a tranny is, but many may not. A fag in UK a cigarrete, in USA a homosexual, etc.
Basically Chill the F out in ALL these posts of late, it's getting a bloody CHORE to frequent this board and read some of this cr@p!
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Rooky - cheers for the post. Some good info in there, and I can see where you're coming from. It would be interesting to find out if the HW Marshalls really DO have upgraded/more original components as you suggest. This would help to explain the price difference, but would make a mockery of the cheaper versions. Either they're a re-issue (and therefore close replica of the originals), or they're not.
Mr Dakine - you don't have to read the threads if you don't like them.
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Sigh !
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the HW and the SLP doesnt sound the same, I'm NOT sayin' that one is better than the other, only that I think there are some caps in that change the tone (however they are not 2 different worlds its obvious), I think that people have to buy the one that they prefer.. the HW IMHO has a better tone but its very high priced, it gives you also the possibility to mod your amp completely in an easy way.. but in the end its all a matter of what you're searchin' and the money you have... try 'em and choose the best... for who thinks that old ones are better... maybe but I've seen many and I can say that only a 5% where completely stock, the other or have problems or have changes inside.. beware
PS : trannies thoeries are not true
I think there are some differences between them as well but nothing a couple hundred dollars in mods will not obtain.... but the tranny bit is very much true...
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Dakine, sorry about the agro I guess I should have explained myself better in the first place.
Anyway you'll be interested to know that Proton own Lotus Engineering which is a design consultancy that was originally part of Lotus Cars; that's some marketing ploy.
Cheers,
Rooky.
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the HW and the SLP doesnt sound the same, I'm NOT sayin' that one is better than the other, only that I think there are some caps in that change the tone (however they are not 2 different worlds its obvious), I think that people have to buy the one that they prefer.. the HW IMHO has a better tone but its very high priced, it gives you also the possibility to mod your amp completely in an easy way.. but in the end its all a matter of what you're searchin' and the money you have... try 'em and choose the best... for who thinks that old ones are better... maybe but I've seen many and I can say that only a 5% where completely stock, the other or have problems or have changes inside.. beware
PS : trannies thoeries are not true
I think there are some differences between them as well but nothing a couple hundred dollars in mods will not obtain.... but the tranny bit is very much true...
sorry if I have a different opinion :wink: but I own a 1959HW head and I've changed it to all type of specs ('67, '68, '69, '70s 8) ) and I can assure you that when I've changed the Tranny the sound doesnt do that "big" change that people claim, the biggest difference you can hear comes from the change of filtering type, even caps change affect the tone a very small bit especially if you have an high filtering...
also the SLP is different in sound with the HW even when you have the same type of caps/filtering in it, the sound of the SLP is a bit more "metallic" and has less "boom" and deep I think that one can hear the difference simply, if you mod the SLP this differences remain if you change Power and Output Trannies things get better but you are goin' in the price range of the HW which have stock very good Trannies...
believe it or not thats my experience :D
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no worries.
Yes Lotus was a mere example, just about every man and his dog have owned Lotus at one point or another (usually to gleam chassis technology). Was born into auto game (R.I.P. dad :cry: ) but outta loop for while in good ole Texas.
Anyway, am sure hand wired are just that and are good, but it surely IS a good 'marketing/selling' point also. I have NOT tried one so cannot offer opinion unfortunately.
NOT having great time here so lil 'on edge', and NOT necessarily this post but seem ot be ALOT of bad blood/arguing lately (which is NOT in constructive vein) but seems to be for childish purposes (i.e. Dragonforce thread, sheesh).
I have perused H-C at times, but generally hate the BS that goes on there.
Lets keep it Helpful and fun and real here shall we :)
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:drink:
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Stop taking the internet so seriously.
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the HW and the SLP doesnt sound the same, I'm NOT sayin' that one is better than the other, only that I think there are some caps in that change the tone (however they are not 2 different worlds its obvious), I think that people have to buy the one that they prefer.. the HW IMHO has a better tone but its very high priced, it gives you also the possibility to mod your amp completely in an easy way.. but in the end its all a matter of what you're searchin' and the money you have... try 'em and choose the best... for who thinks that old ones are better... maybe but I've seen many and I can say that only a 5% where completely stock, the other or have problems or have changes inside.. beware
PS : trannies thoeries are not true
I think there are some differences between them as well but nothing a couple hundred dollars in mods will not obtain.... but the tranny bit is very much true...
sorry if I have a different opinion :wink: but I own a 1959HW head and I've changed it to all type of specs ('67, '68, '69, '70s 8) ) and I can assure you that when I've changed the Tranny the sound doesnt do that "big" change that people claim, the biggest difference you can hear comes from the change of filtering type, even caps change affect the tone a very small bit especially if you have an high filtering...
also the SLP is different in sound with the HW even when you have the same type of caps/filtering in it, the sound of the SLP is a bit more "metallic" and has less "boom" and deep I think that one can hear the difference simply, if you mod the SLP this differences remain if you change Power and Output Trannies things get better but you are goin' in the price range of the HW which have stock very good Trannies...
believe it or not thats my experience :D
That's funny because a '68 spec and '69 spec and '70s spec are all exactly the same. Some of the '67 specs are the same as well depending on the model and when it was made. So the reason that it sounded the same was that you kept replacing the OT with the same one. If you put in a different one, you would know!
A transformer swap is not that expensive as well. You can buy a PCB 1959SLP and try about 3 OTs with labor, heavily mod the amp, retube and recap it and still spend less than you would on a single handwired with an 80s spec transformer in it for a brighter JCM 800ish sound.... and that is why the JCM 800 line 2203/2204s sounded brighter.
If you know anything about electronics, the only thing that handwired will do vs. PCB is theoretically use larger wires that do not drop below the resistance being carried over the wire. Being that this is not a problem with PCB, there is no problem to be fixed. If you wired the PCB exactly the same with the same components, it would sound the same. And as I said, a small price will do that.
There is a website that discusses on how to convert a RI PCB Marshalls to sound just like the real thing... not a handwired RI, the real deal from back in the day and the first thing that you do is replace the transformer and a few components. I think they also have a book as well, but the before and after clips were quite amazing what a few dollars into one of them will do.
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marshall are going to cut corners and always will dispite this "handwired" reissue stuff if they can cut corners on quality they will.. because there such a huge buisness regardless of the price tag they slap on the amps..
i'd never touch a marshall made after the JCM800 2203.. last great amp they made and it's a shame.
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i'd never touch a marshall made after the JCM800 2203.. last great amp they made and it's a shame.
I pretty much agree with you but I thought the 900s were pretty good too but the dual channel 800s were pretty bad. Honestly, I have a slightly modded SL-X and I kind of like it better than any of the 800s I've played. The other 900s with clipping diodes are more of limited use though..
And even with a 2203/2204 you really gotta get the vertical input models too because when they went to horizontal inputs, they made a couple of small cost cutting options and with the lower gain levels, the extra thinness did it no favors.
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The early 900s were good but after that it's all cr@p IMO
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Dammit my PC packs up for 2 weeks and all the decent threads come along at once! :x
My suggestion would be to go with the little Marshall clones from www.ampmaker.com - the components are at least as good if not better than those in the 2061x and it's a reputable British company that I'd vouch for 100%.
The HW Marshalls do have on the whole slightly better components than their PCB counterparts, which helps Marshall perpetuate the myth that handwiring things makes them sound better. I don't think they're using it as an excuse to inflate the price though - the amount of time it takes to wire an amp by hand can be quite high, and bear in mind you're paying for British labour in wiring this amp at a real wage, not a chinese sweatshop. When Marshall want to inflate the price, they just make it a limited edition or slap Hendrix's name on it like the JTM 45/100's they've released - no way in hell are those amps worth several thousand pounds.
Saying that cross talk is a problem with PCB's is a bit of a moot point to be honest, since hand wired amps made in the style of the old Marshalls tend to use much longer component leads, physically larger capacitors etc to be more authentic, which increases cross talk. I've always had far more of it with turret board circuits than when using PCB's.
Marhshall didn't suddenly turn corporate or anything after the JCM800's were made - they've always been exactly the same, ie. that they know feck all about the amps they make. Marshall only used high quality components in the late 60's because that's what was there at the time - as far as they are concerned, as long as it's the right value it'll do. Marshall shouldn't have to search far and wide for good sounding examples of their old amps, they should be able to discern for themselves what makes a great sounding amplifier. By the way, for those who say that the 1959HW sounds bright or 'ratty' sounding, that's how the original amp sounded. I know the guy who owned the amp Marshall cloned for the 1959HW, and he said they made a perfect replica of it - including it's tonal flaws.
There's nothing particuarly special about any Marshall circuit, and they would all sound good as long as good components are used. If JCM900's were made in the 1960's they would probably have sounded good because Marshall will have had decent sounding transformers and capacitors in their parts bins. Those old components weren't even supposed to be 'high quality' anyway; aside from their military spec ratings, it's just a lucky coincidence that their composition means that they sound particuarly good for guitar amps. It becomes an issue when Marshall start using different components, but don't stop to think "hang on a minute, that doesn't sound as good, let's stick with the old components".
That's funny because a '68 spec and '69 spec and '70s spec are all exactly the same.
That's not strictly true; there were plenty of transitional 12000 series amps made in 1968 with bassier values (I've actually heard that all these amps were made in 68 but cant say that for sure), and it wasn't until well into 1968 (midway I believe) that the lead circuit became standardised. In addition, 70's spec is different - for some reason Marshall decided to remove the .68uF cap on V2a, and started messing with the NFB setup and presence control.
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Having seen a HW 100w head and also had a HW-series OT I wouldn't say they're shitee. They're certainly better than the PCB amps, but I would say that the PCB amps can be modded to be better for less than the difference between the two models.
Also, anyone that buys a new Marshall valve amp is a f'in idiot - there are THOUSANDS of used Marshalls out there, save yourself some cash off the shop price.
:twisted:
I'll second that! I saw a 50w plexi or that design at least witht the 4 inputs on the right, for $1250 in LV. Year was 1976 and it had been loved too.
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That's not strictly true; there were plenty of transitional 12000 series amps made in 1968 with bassier values (I've actually heard that all these amps were made in 68 but cant say that for sure), and it wasn't until well into 1968 (midway I believe) that the lead circuit became standardised. In addition, 70's spec is different - for some reason Marshall decided to remove the .68uF cap on V2a, and started messing with the NFB setup and presence control.
Depends which one you get though. The spec for the standard 100 watt transformers as found in the 1959SLP, the Dagnalls, did not change until 12 years later... of course some '68s still had the older, larger transformers in them as well, and sometimes you could get an oddball unit too. With the Drakes (50 watters typically) they would change them around a bit more but most of them were very minor.
But yeah, Marshall was becoming very corporate and the reason they went PCB was to reduce costs, speed up production times, etc. Most of the cost cutting options started in the mid 80s though. I do prefer the '69-'74 era Marshalls to JCM 800s by quite a bit though, and as Heavier than Hell suggested, they can be purchased starting at a quarter the price of a new handwired. I've seen some dead mint sell from $800 to $1500.
The reissues, HW and PCB sound very thin where the old Marshalls have this gigantic tone.
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The early 900s were good but after that it's all cr@p IMO
The early ones were the super thin sounding ones, at least compared to the later ones.... ever played a SL-X?
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Hi Rooky,
Welcome to the forum!
A good scr@p is a cool way to start a good friendship IMHO! :D 8)
So did you come here to find out about the pickups?
My mate in a very big tribute band which tours the UK full time tried the handwired plexi. He didn't like it and went back to his JMP pre-amp and 100 stereo valve monoblock rack stuff. It's never gone wrong, he has it seviced once a year and it sounds brilliant.
Just thought I'd add that. I'm not taking sides here either.
8)
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That's not strictly true; there were plenty of transitional 12000 series amps made in 1968 with bassier values (I've actually heard that all these amps were made in 68 but cant say that for sure), and it wasn't until well into 1968 (midway I believe) that the lead circuit became standardised. In addition, 70's spec is different - for some reason Marshall decided to remove the .68uF cap on V2a, and started messing with the NFB setup and presence control.
Depends which one you get though. The spec for the standard 100 watt transformers as found in the 1959SLP, the Dagnalls, did not change until 12 years later... of course some '68s still had the older, larger transformers in them as well, and sometimes you could get an oddball unit too. With the Drakes (50 watters typically) they would change them around a bit more but most of them were very minor.
I think he was referring to circuit spec though, not transformer spec.
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That's not strictly true; there were plenty of transitional 12000 series amps made in 1968 with bassier values (I've actually heard that all these amps were made in 68 but cant say that for sure), and it wasn't until well into 1968 (midway I believe) that the lead circuit became standardised. In addition, 70's spec is different - for some reason Marshall decided to remove the .68uF cap on V2a, and started messing with the NFB setup and presence control.
Depends which one you get though. The spec for the standard 100 watt transformers as found in the 1959SLP, the Dagnalls, did not change until 12 years later... of course some '68s still had the older, larger transformers in them as well, and sometimes you could get an oddball unit too. With the Drakes (50 watters typically) they would change them around a bit more but most of them were very minor.
I think he was referring to circuit spec though, not transformer spec.
Oh this was about transformers. Around 1970 we got some resistors changed to up the gain level, but thin out the tone a little bit too as gain was becoming in demand.
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Around 1970 we got some resistors changed to up the gain level, but thin out the tone a little bit too as gain was becoming in demand.
That thin tone is mainly a combination of the (split cathode) lead circuit and the big (4700pF, sometimes even 680pF) bright cap on the volume pot.
With the volume set lower 2 or 3 you're getting alot of extra treble you don't want and also lose all that gradual onset of overdrive. Those 70s Marshalls were born to RAWK - turn 'em up past 5 to get the glory :D
:twisted:
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Around 1970 we got some resistors changed to up the gain level, but thin out the tone a little bit too as gain was becoming in demand.
That thin tone is mainly a combination of the (split cathode) lead circuit and the big (4700pF, sometimes even 680pF) bright cap on the volume pot.
With the volume set lower 2 or 3 you're getting alot of extra treble you don't want and also lose all that gradual onset of overdrive. Those 70s Marshalls were born to RAWK - turn 'em up past 5 to get the glory :D
:twisted:
Yeah the resistors don't thin the tone out that much, and it's not like they dropped them that much then either.... they were still a much higher value than most modern amps today are.
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Hi Rooky,
Welcome to the forum!
A good scr@p is a cool way to start a good friendship IMHO! :D 8)
So did you come here to find out about the pickups?
My mate in a very big tribute band which tours the UK full time tried the handwired plexi. He didn't like it and went back to his JMP pre-amp and 100 stereo valve monoblock rack stuff. It's never gone wrong, he has it seviced once a year and it sounds brilliant.
Just thought I'd add that. I'm not taking sides here either.
8)
Thanks for the welcome Johnny. as some of you might have guessed I work in the the musical equipment manufacturing business. What I had to say was not about Marshall in particular but about hand wired amps in general. I worked in product development for a very large multinational for a number of years and participated in the meetings that decided which way a product would go and thought I'd speak up particularly since guys like yourselves are well into vintage sound and vintage gear.
My band like so many others now use a big PA system with solid state power amps, guitar pre-amps and virtually no back line so the comments were specifically aimed at guitar amps
Nothing I said was speculative it was all hard fact.
I love the pickups by the way; it's a shame that there isn't more gear out there to match them
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Around 1970 we got some resistors changed to up the gain level, but thin out the tone a little bit too as gain was becoming in demand.
That thin tone is mainly a combination of the (split cathode) lead circuit and the big (4700pF, sometimes even 680pF) bright cap on the volume pot.
With the volume set lower 2 or 3 you're getting alot of extra treble you don't want and also lose all that gradual onset of overdrive. Those 70s Marshalls were born to RAWK - turn 'em up past 5 to get the glory :D
:twisted:
Yeah the resistors don't thin the tone out that much, and it's not like they dropped them that much then either.... they were still a much higher value than most modern amps today are.
what you say 'dropped them' I'm not sure what you mean - do you mean their wattage rating or the actual value of the resistor?
:?
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Having seen a HW 100w head and also had a HW-series OT I wouldn't say they're shitee. They're certainly better than the PCB amps, but I would say that the PCB amps can be modded to be better for less than the difference between the two models.
Also, anyone that buys a new Marshall valve amp is a f'in idiot - there are THOUSANDS of used Marshalls out there, save yourself some cash off the shop price.
:twisted:
I'll second that! I saw a 50w plexi or that design at least witht the 4 inputs on the right, for $1250 in LV. Year was 1976 and it had been loved too.
http://www.cowtownguitars.com/itemtest2.php?invno=amar109&itemtop=includes/ampitemtop.txt
Link to that amp^^^