Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: RorySRV on October 04, 2006, 09:37:55 AM
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Hey Everyone,
Just posting because hopefully soon I will be purchasing a cheap Epiphone to customise completely and obviously one of the first things you customise are the pickups...
So I was wondering what would be the best BKP combination to get a those Classic Rock and Hard Rock sound like Led Zeppelin, Cream, Deep Purple and the thick creamy blues sounds of Gary Moore and Guns and Roses (Slash).
Your help would be very much appreciated,
Look forward to your suggestions with reasons,
Thanks alot in advance :wink: ,
RorySRV,
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I asked pretty much the same thing for my Epi LP and was recommended Mules. They do sound great in the Epi and when you get to crank the amp you can really hear the detail and clarity in them :D
Then again, if you prefer the more agressive Page sound, you might prefer the Black Dogs, but I've never played em so I cant comment.
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I take it we're talking about an Epi Les Paul here, rather than an SG or a 335?
In that case, without a shadow of a doubt, you want a set of Mules.
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This question should be in the FAQ! :)
Yeah, for classic PAF-style hard rock sounds, I think 99.9% of contestants will answer "Mules". And it's a pretty good answer that is extremely unlikely to steer you wrong!
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Just realised I forgot to add reasons!
Mules are Alnico IV and I find mine has a very sweet sound - plenty of mids and smooth trebles with enough grunt for rock. This is a great basis for all classic humbucker sounds. It's not too far in any one direction, so with amp tweaking or an EQ pedal you can make the Mule suit whatever style you want. I think the name says it all too - a real workhorse that just gets the job done.
As you stray away from the Mule you get more specialised - which is good if you're after a particular tone but it will affect your versatility. For example, to get a more treble biased sound from a Mule you can cut mids using amp or pedal EQ. If you're using a Riff Raff, which I find has more treble bias than a Mule, you can't get the midrange fullness back in using EQ.
You can easily remove frequencies you don't want, but you can't put in what you didn't have to start with
So for all round PAF-style rock goodness, it has to be Mules.
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That sounds great :)
May I ask 3 questions...
1) Will the buckers be alright with the standard Gibson/Epi Volume pots of 500k assuming they are in the Les Paul
2) How bad are the standard electrics in Epiphones. Specifically the Epi Lp-100?
and 3) I am assuming the colour Lp in the picture on the link below is Heritage Cherry Sunburst... right? Just wanted to check because the one in the picture is the colour I would like to get
The guitar I am talking about regarding all these questions is the lp-100:
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/lp-100/858
As this is probably the one I will get to customise, as its cheap :wink:
And just out of interest does anyone know why they call this a lp-100 and not a Les Paul 100. And why it doesnt have the normal Les Paul signature on the headstock???
Anyway thanks alot,
Help is much appreciated :wink: ,
Thanks again,
RorySRV,
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I'm doing something very similar in an Agile LP clone I have, and I went for a Riff Raff/Stormy Monday combo.
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RorySRV,
The LP100 is the cheapest LP that Epiphone make, and it has a bolt on neck. Personally, if you're after classic Les Paul tones, I'd go for a set neck with the correct woods. The LP100 is a bit too cheap.
The colour of the one you gave a link to is Heritage Cherry Sunburst.
Epi electrics are OK, but their selector switches in particular are very cheap and they break quickly. They're easy enough to change if you can use a soldering iron, and a new set of pots/wiring isn't dear either. If I were you I would:
* Get a better quality Les Paul (set neck, mahogany/maple)
* Get the BKPs you want
* Re-wire the entire guitar (new pots/switch/input jack)
This is what I did with my '65 reissue Epi SG and I'm very happy with the results :D
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Trouble is that means a lot of saving...
What Epi Lp would you recommend that isnt too expensive?
And how much money do you reckon would it cost to buy the les paul and get a tech to replace the pots, switch and input jack (I am not too confident with a soldering iron and dont currently have one anyway :wink: )
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Another vote for The Mule. I have a calibrated set in my Epi Les Paul and they're bang on - really nice shimmering cleans, and enough grunt to get really tasty dirty sounds too. Whats more being a reasonably low output pickup you retain note seperation and can really hear picking action even at high gain.
As for Epi electronics, they're functional but could do with replacing. My selector switch died a death very early on, but gold plated selector switches are pretty cheap. I'm planning on replacing all the wiring and pots too, but thats partly because the shop that fitted my Mules apparently employs blind monkeys instead of proper guitar techs and the soldering job is enough to make a boy weep.
I'd also vote for the set neck Epi, much nicer feel and better sound imho.
But get the Mules for sure, I cannot tell you just how delighted you will be with them.
*Rahnooo*
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I don't know how much techs charge (and I wouldn't want to put anyone out of a job) but I definitely recommend the DIY approach.
Soldering takes a bit of practice, but it's basically easy enough and you can do most of the work outside the guitar so there's not much risk of destroying anything. And it's a real buzz when you put everything back together and see (or hear) the monster you've created!
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Ok thanks alot everyone.
Can anyone recommend a good not to expensive Epi Lp for me?
And also what does everyone think of a Black Dog in the Bridge for higher gain or more modern stuff such as Gary Moore, Slash and Pages more high gain stuff and a Mule for the more vintage tone :roll:
Thanks again,
RorySRV
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And also what does everyone think of a Black Dog in the Bridge for higher gain or more modern stuff such as Gary Moore, Slash and Pages more high gain stuff and a Mule for the more vintage tone
Black Dogs are good for Page, clearly, but Slash doesn't use particularly hot pickups. I'd say Mules, or even Stormy Mondays (!) are good for Slash. Probably Mules are good for Gary Moore, or maybe Crawlers (which are markedly higher gain, but still have a PAF-like feel).
The Mules, generally, are good all-rounders for classic hard/blues rock stuff. You can tap your amp for gain; Tim uses Mules when playing in his Ozzy tribute band! :)
(I say all this as a satisfied Crawler customer, too :)).
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Ok thanks alot.
So I have all my questions answered expect 1 :P
Can anyone recommend me a good Epi thats not too expensive.
Say preferably the £200 - £400 area.
And one that looks Jimmy Page Les Paul like preferably, or just damn nice :wink:
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Used Epiphone Standard gets my vote. Easy enough to pick up from eBay or your local guitar shop.
Or how about one of these Vintage LP clones - they're getting good reviews. Go for the worn relic style one for £300!
http://www.jhs.co.uk/vintageelectric.html
Edit:
Check out this little bargain!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-V100-ELECTRIC-GUITAR-GLOSS-BLACK_W0QQitemZ220034282956QQihZ012QQcategoryZ106457QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Or how about one of these Vintage LP clones - they're getting good reviews. Go for the worn relic style one for £300!
http://www.jhs.co.uk/vintageelectric.html
Huh, I dig the PRS clones as well -- they actually have 24 frets! Wouldn't mind getting one of those and slapping some Abraxas in there. (Or putting my existing Crawlers in there, and getting new Warpigs for my LP Std!
:twisted:) Bit of a budgeting pipe-dream at the moment, but there's no harm in dreaming .... :roll:
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http://www.guitars.co.uk/acatalog/Vintage_AV1H.html
£280, And they look really nice - kinda LP influenced but not a clone...I like them a lot, and they're the right woods. Got good reviews in the latest "Guitarist" magazine too, I could type up if you're interested...
The "thumb scoop" seems a great idea, solving one of the things that was irritating (to me anyway) about the LP design :P
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http://www.guitars.co.uk/acatalog/Vintage_AV1H.html
£280, And they look really nice - kinda LP influenced but not a clone...I like them a lot, and they're the right woods. Got good reviews in the latest "Guitarist" magazine too, I could type up if you're interested...
The "thumb scoop" seems a great idea, solving one of the things that was irritating (to me anyway) about the LP design :P
hey - thanks for that link, they look real nice. love the natural finished one - she's a fitty. Vintage seem to be able to produce some real nice spec'd guitars for great prices, i'd love to try one.
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Used Epiphone Standard gets my vote. Easy enough to pick up from eBay or your local guitar shop.
Or how about one of these Vintage LP clones - they're getting good reviews. Go for the worn relic style one for £300!
http://www.jhs.co.uk/vintageelectric.html
Edit:
Check out this little bargain!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-V100-ELECTRIC-GUITAR-GLOSS-BLACK_W0QQitemZ220034282956QQihZ012QQcategoryZ106457QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Thanks alot Twin
That has been a great help.
I assume for £300 the electrics must be half decent as well.
That is good because it means I dont have to replace all of them.
And that distressed honeyburst colour is exactley what I was looking for.
Very Pageish :wink:
Shame they dont have it in the colour I want on fleabay.
But I can search around anyway.
And one last final final question:
Would a tech charge extra if I wanted to get the guitar coil tapped?
Thanks alot,
Everyone has been a huge help, especially you twin :wink:
Thanks again,
RorySRV
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If you wanted an Epi LP Standard other than ebony, then it would be $499; sometimes you can get Customs for cheap on Ebay. I'd take a look on Ebay first as you can also find pretty cheap 2nds or used Epiphone LP Customs on and if you're lucky, you might just get a new one that's pretty cheap (400 - 500 $$)....but that's just my experience here in the US, I don't know if you're in the UK....
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Ok thanks.
So far the cheapest price I have found for a Vintage v100 in Distressed Cherry Sunburst colour is £250...
Which isnt bad considering I was gonna spend £199 on a bolt on necked Epi Les Paul which wasnt even the colour I was looking for :wink:
I will keep you posted on my finds anyway,
Thanks a lot everyone,
RorySRV
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No probs matey :D
A tech will charge you extra for coil tapping if the guitar doesn't have them at the moment. This is because you'll need new pots (pull-push type) to let you split/tap the coils.
It's worth investing in a soldering iron, some pots/wire and having a go yourself if you ask me. Then you can upgrade any future guitars you buy without having to go to a tech. That's what I did. Completely de-valued my '83 JV Squier in the process though...
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I'd still go for the Advanced one I linked ya to Mr Rory :P The cherry one is cool, and the build quality is supposed to be better than that of the regular Vintage's - but then it looks less like an LP which may not be for everyone...
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No probs matey :D
A tech will charge you extra for coil tapping if the guitar doesn't have them at the moment. This is because you'll need new pots (pull-push type) to let you split/tap the coils.
It's worth investing in a soldering iron, some pots/wire and having a go yourself if you ask me. Then you can upgrade any future guitars you buy without having to go to a tech. That's what I did. Completely de-valued my '83 JV Squier in the process though...
I think I might but maybe I will grab a second hand one for about £30 and try it. I dont think I could justify it on any other guitar at the moment.
I'd still go for the Advanced one I linked ya to Mr Rory The cherry one is cool, and the build quality is supposed to be better than that of the regular Vintage's - but then it looks less like an LP which may not be for everyone...
Which one are you referring to :?:
And are you saying that the Vintage V100 Distressed Cherry looks less like a Les Paul :?:
If so how come? :?
Thanks alot everyone,
BTW I am guessing for this Vintage V100 if I wanted the Humbuckers wired to a normal 3 way switch then i would need a 2 Conductor Wire Version of each pickups (Black Dog and Mule) right?
And I am assuming as well that the pickup spacing will be 50mm like on a Gibbo right?
Thanks again,
RorySRV
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Black Dogs are good for Page, clearly, but Slash doesn't use particularly hot pickups. I'd say Mules, or even Stormy Mondays (!) are good for Slash. Probably Mules are good for Gary Moore, or maybe Crawlers (which are markedly higher gain, but still have a PAF-like feel).
I do have to say I was thinking Black Dogs here... Slash does use some quieter Alnico II magnet pickups, but most low-mid output Alnico Vs will come close enough.... but you can also come quite close to Page tones with PAFs although it's a little bit harder to do....
Do Crawlers have a PAF like feel per say? I know they are a bit nice for their output, but from what I heard I would say they are a bit different, although suitable for similiar styles... I should add I am strongly considering them for my Carvin DC127.
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[quote="RorySRV
I'd still go for the Advanced one I linked ya to Mr Rory The cherry one is cool, and the build quality is supposed to be better than that of the regular Vintage's - but then it looks less like an LP which may not be for everyone...
Which one are you referring to :?:
And are you saying that the Vintage V100 Distressed Cherry looks less like a Les Paul :?:
If so how come? :? [/quote]
Noo, the http://www.jhs.co.uk/vintageadvance.html AV1 looks less like an LP due to the slight cutaway on the upper side and the more subtle lower horn...
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O right.
Well I was looking at the Vintage V100 Icon Series in Distressed Honeyburst :wink:
And I have read the review example from a magzine on the website(i know they probably picked the best one) but they give it 92%!! and thats with the stock pups aswell !!
And plus it looks lovely and the relicing on it isnt that bad either from what I could see... :)
I think its the next in line :D
RorySRV,(JiMi HeNdRiX)
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Try taking a look at a few Tokai Les Pauls on Ebay, preferably Japanese made. Very near Gibson quality, for Epiphone money.
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Ok will do :wink:
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Ok will do :wink:
Out of the Vintage V100 Icon Series in Distressed Cherry Sunburst and the Vintage V100 Icon Series in Distressed Honeyburst
Which one do you think looks more like Jimmy Page's Les Paul?
And Which one do you think looks nicer?
Thanks for your input :wink: ,
RorySRV,
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The Honeyburst ought to be closer to Page's LP, but it looks a bit too light - Page's LP has a fairly un-faded burst, I think. The Gibson JP signature models are definitely darker than that Vintage Honeyburst.
In the pictures, I prefer the look of the Cherry, but I'd like to see one in the flesh - cherry bursts are horrible if they're too red.
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Yea it is a bit too light.
Pages was darker, kinda in between a tobacco sunburst and honeyburst, but I think thats the nearest I will get without getting the Signature Gibson :wink:
I prefers the look of the honeyburst a bit more personally and its nearer Page's in colour and I dont think I would buy the Cherryburst anyway because as you say it looks horrible if its too red :?
I would be interested to hear the rest of your opinions as well :wink:
RorySRV
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RorySRV, ya gotta make your own look. Beg, Borrow & Steal everyones tone and licks; but get your own signature look, dare to be different, like Jimi, Rory, and Stevie Ray.
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Dont worry I intend to and with some BKPs equipped to my guitar it will make it much easier.
Hence why I might buy to Digitech Expressions Factory so I can make my own very unique sound. I mean it has a Digitech XP300 Space Station Synth Swell on it. How more unique can you get than that :P
I just love Jimmys tone and would love to be able to sound like him (sometimes) and as for the guitar. Well I fell in love with that Les Paul ever since I first Jimmy play it on stage and I would just like to be able to have a guitar that looked somewhat as good :wink:
Thanks for your input Broken,
So do you agree with my pickup choice? (Black Dog - Bridge, Mule - Neck)
Look forward to your reply,
RorySRV, (JiMi HeNdRiX)
P.S. Get over to UGF sharpish. I might be going soon but its dead over here :P
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I just love Jimmys tone and would love to be able to sound like him (sometimes) and as for the guitar. Well I fell in love with that Les Paul ever since I first Jimmy play it on stage and I would just like to be able to have a guitar that looked somewhat as good :wink:
Got to admit, even though at first I wasn't a huge Zep fan (though this changed) or G'n'R fan, I was captivated by the look of Pagey's and Slash's Les Pauls. Before, I knew anything about electric guitars (or acoustic guitars), I knew I wanted one of those. Later on, I figured out a lot of my favorite players used LPs or Gibsons of some sort anyway, so luckily that worked out. ;) My fave tones definitely spring from humbuckers in something mahoganyish! 8)
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Yeah I go for playability, tone, comfort, quality, etc. with looks being the last thing I care for, but the Les Pauls just look so cool that if I didn't like them for their tone already, I'd still keep it for looks.
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Yep I think we are all on the same brainwave :P
May I ask one final question: What strings do you recommend for a Les Paul style guitar?
because I have heard that it is harder to bend strings etc on a Les Paul than on a strat...
I know its down to personal preference really but I would like to see what you guys use and why you use that gauge of string :wink:
Thanks in advance :wink: ,
RorySRV,
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May I ask one final question: What strings do you recommend for a Les Paul style guitar?
because I have heard that it is harder to bend strings etc on a Les Paul than on a strat...
Should be easier if anything: with the shorter scale length there's less tension on the strings meaning that bending is easier (someone told you the wrong way round :P )
Personally I would never use anything smaller than 10s, but I know that's not to everyone's taste - pick what you woulda taken on the strat to start with and see how you go :P
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May I ask one final question: What strings do you recommend for a Les Paul style guitar?
because I have heard that it is harder to bend strings etc on a Les Paul than on a strat...
Should be easier if anything: with the shorter scale length there's less tension on the strings meaning that bending is easier (someone told you the wrong way round :P )
Personally I would never use anything smaller than 10s, but I know that's not to everyone's taste - pick what you woulda taken on the strat to start with and see how you go :P
Stupid people :P .
Ok then I will go ahead and get some 10's put in like my strat and see how it sounds :wink:
Thanks again to everyone thats helped,
It has been very helpful :P ,
So I think I will go on ahead and buy that Vintage V100 Icon Series Les Paul in 'Distressed Honeyburst' colour and then stick a BK Black Dog in the bridge and a BK Mule in the neck :wink:
Thanks again everyone!!,
RorySRV,
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Try taking a look at a few Tokai Les Pauls on Ebay, preferably Japanese made. Very near Gibson quality, for Epiphone money.
+1 I picked up mine << for £350, MIJ, one piece mahogany body, flame maple top, identical to gibson headstock. Now the actions set nice and low, its an incredible guitar.
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I had the look on ebay.co.uk and .com and I couldnt really find anything that looked like a Jimmy Page Les Paul apart from a Tokai Quilt Top Les Paul but that didnt have much burst at all and was closer to a Tobacco Sunburst Les Paul :?
So I think I will stick with the Vintage :wink:
RorySRV,