Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: _tom_ on October 19, 2006, 08:04:49 PM
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I'm gonna want to buy a simple setup so I can start doing proper recordings with a real amp. Thing is I dont really know what I need, and dont have lots of money to buy anything too posh.
I was planning on getting an SM57 and getting some kinda converter so I can run it into the 1/4" input of my V-Amp 2 to use this as a preamp, or straight into the mic socket of my computer. Will this work? Or does the mic need to get power from somewhere to work properly?
I cant really afford a mixer, all the ones I've looked at are expensive for just some basic home recording..
Anyone who knows about recording, I'd appreciate if you can run down a list of all the hardware I need for a very simple setup but still be able to get some good results.
Thanks
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There's even a simpler solution:
SEE LINK BELOW :roll: :oops: :wink:
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Not sure what you're trying to show us there TO!
I'd be interested in an nswer to Tom's question too...
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Yeah I dont get it either :lol: Maybe its a wrong link..
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HA!
Sorry about that lol
:oops:
http://www.bluemic.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Products&file=index&prod_id=18
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_tom_, least you will need like this is some kind of interface. That is with a Shure SM. These are dynamic mics and req. 48v Phantom power.
A usb or other mic NOT needing power could be used or go straight to PC but not a dynamic or condensor.
There are many many interfaces to acheive this, both usb and firewire. A free software program is easily available and most interfaces come with one anyway.
Personally (when my laptop, which has enough ram/memory etc. gets here from Texas with missus) I am gonna use a Line6 toneport UX2 (which has 2 phantom power outlets) to record direct from amp.
However even cheaper solutions are there.
Tascam,Line6,M-Audio etc. all produce phantom power interface devices.
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I found this in the UK, more than I was hoping to pay for a mic but I take it I wouldnt need to buy a mixer etc to get it into the computer?
http://www.turnkey.co.uk/web/productAction.do?dispatch=showProduct&SKU=BLU-BALL&context=WEB
Can you get stands that fit em? I bet the Blue tripod is expensive..
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HA!
Sorry about that lol
:oops:
http://www.bluemic.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Products&file=index&prod_id=18
For what that will do (although certainly an option) for the price in UK, I think there are better options.
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I found this in the UK, more than I was hoping to pay for a mic but I take it I wouldnt need to buy a mixer etc to get it into the computer?
http://www.turnkey.co.uk/web/productAction.do?dispatch=showProduct&SKU=BLU-BALL&context=WEB
Can you get stands that fit em? I bet the Blue tripod is expensive..
Tom, I have one of those but phantom power is needed.
Yes stands are available.
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Ok. I'll have a look at some of the interfaces to see what I could get to use an SM57 with then I guess..
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this kind of thing will be fine _tom_
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M-Audio-Fast-Track-USB-record-guitar-vocals-on-PC_W0QQitemZ150044975104QQihZ005QQcategoryZ123445QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TACSAM-US-122-USB-AUDIO-MIDI-INTERFACE_W0QQitemZ130037166859QQihZ003QQcategoryZ123445QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Cool, they look allright and arent too expensive on ebay.
Was looking on Dolphin Music and found this
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/8526
Take it I'd just plug a mic into the mic in, then mic thru would go to soundcard or whatever? Guessing for £15 its not amazing though but my V-Amp 2 has lasted me about 3 years no problems..
Theres also this ART mic preamp which has more features tho it is more expensive http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ART-MicroMix-Microphone-Preamp-with-Phantom-Power_W0QQitemZ7420650203QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3278QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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What about:
guitar => amp => SM-57 => M-Audio Jam Lab => PC (with Audacity)
That's £59 for the JamLab, Audacity is free and the mic/stand/cable is £85ish? Pretty cheap, but would it work???
Check out the JamLab here:
http://www.maudio.co.uk/products/en_gb/JamLab-main.html
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hm, I always thought jamlab was one of those things like Rifftracker with all the amp models etc that you have to use. Could be wrong though.
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as long as your pc soundcard or whatever is up to it am sure would be fine. Your issue would be supplying phantom power to the mic. The interfaces I posted take all out of the equation, mic-interface-usb-recording software, as was not sure on what you have/had that you wanted to use already.
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jamlab has NO phantom power again.
For Dynamic or condensor mics you need Phantom Power!
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Oh right, at the minute all I have is a laptop with stock soundcard :lol:
Wouldnt the behringer thing I posted the link to power the mic though? Seems to be its job but as I'm new to this I'm probably wrong..
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yep, it will power the mic but what are you going into then? I am not up on this v-amp thing, what is it?
Scrub that, looked, like a behringer pod thing
Hmmm, dunno it's connections.
You need/wanna save cash I know, but simplest way is that mic-interface-usb/pc way imo.
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Ah, well. Its just a basic amp modeller/preamp. Has a model called Tube Preamp I was thinking I could use with a flat EQ. So long as you can get an adaptor to go from XLR to 1/4" jack I dont think thered be a problem with using that?
Would probably be either that or straight into soundcard after the power thing depending on the results..
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What about this then?
guitar => amp => SM-57 => Behringer phantom power => M-Audio Jam Lab (or V-Amp) => PC (with Audacity)
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What about this then?
guitar => amp => SM-57 => Behringer phantom power => M-Audio Jam Lab => PC (with Audacity)
WHY?
The more connections in the chain the worse for signal.
Sure if you can find a cheap phantom power and cheap jamlab but usb/interfaces are so common and on ebay alot, why make it more difficult?
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Fair dos - I'm just guessing at this as I know about as much as Tom!
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Ah, well. Its just a basic amp modeller/preamp. Has a model called Tube Preamp I was thinking I could use with a flat EQ. So long as you can get an adaptor to go from XLR to 1/4" jack I dont think thered be a problem with using that?
Would probably be either that or straight into soundcard after the power thing depending on the results..
I am not familiar with the vamp so don't wanna comment really, although the more connections you have the worse for signal. Also, in my experience laptops do NOT have very good soundcards. I still say, if at all poss. a standalone interface would be best bet. There is even M-Audio one on evilbay for bout £50 bin or best offer.
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I would wager, if abit canny, i.e. patient and lucky ;) (you hav'nt got the head yet anyway :)) you could get an interface and a dynamic mic for less than £100 all in (maybe cable too).
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I am not familiar with the vamp so don't wanna comment really, although the more connections you have the worse for signal. Also, in my experience laptops do NOT have very good soundcards. I still say, if at all poss. a standalone interface would be best bet. There is even M-Audio one on evilbay for bout £50 bin or best offer.
Could I use the M-Audio Fast track USB interface as my soundcard as well? Looks like it, just want to be sure. If so I'll probably try getting one of those sometime. I have money in the bank but yeah I need to put some towards my head first :lol: Just like to plan for the future and all that :P
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indeed, the m-audio,tascam,emu etc. interfaces are being used as the soundcard.
Mic to interface to usb/firewire to recording program (audacity,cakewalk,ableton etc. etc,).
Not the only choice but imo the simplest and not overly expensive if bide ya time and 'strike' when see a deal ;)
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I'll probably save up for one of those and an SM57 after getting my new head then :D Cheers for the help
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At the risk of confusing the issue, you do not need phantom power for dynamic mics such as the SM 57, only condensory mics and ribbon mics (I strongly suspect you won't be after the latter as they start at about £500 and aren't an obvious option for mic-ing guitar cabs). You will need some form of pre-amp though.
You can pick up cheap mixers at the £60 mark, but you get exactly what you pay for.
I believe Samson do a USB mic that won't require a pre-amp or phantom power supply.
Getting into recording is a dangerous business, as it can swallow more money than you ever dreamed of. Be careful tom ;)
*Rahnooo*
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^ quite right 'rahnoo', what I should have eluded to (was trying to be a little non-technical) is an interface acts for the mic with eq/gain structure etc. which I would doubt a pc card would cater for adaquietly, and also xlr input with fewer (hopefully no) adaptors.
I would still maintain getting some sort of interface for a mic like a shure to make things simpler with connections and be more assured that the mic is then able to convey the spectrum of sound you want to record.
Mics and recording can obviously get VERY costly, but a simple enough setup has/is used often with not bad results.
With your setup 'as is' _tom_ you can try and utilise the v-amp etc. with all kinds of hookups (I am not too familiar with the v-amp) but may encounter some sound degridation or 'colouring' by going through it. An interface (in my understanding) is more a transparent bridge (often tweakable on the appliance) between the mic and the recording apparatus (in this case your laptop).
Many have used usb mics into their soundcard, but many on here have stated they are not best happy with results. All depends on what kind of quality you want or what you want to do with end result (recording).
A SM57 is pretty much an industry standard and well used mic. Phantom power as such is not necessary but getting a good signal path from mic to laptop is very much needed (or you may be wasting time,money and energy and become frustrated). An interface designed specifically for this purpose would help with all this and simplify matters. Also, they come with Phanom Power so allowing for other mics to be used if so desired at a later date.
I did quite alot of research myself and have ended up with a Shure dynamic and a Blue 'the ball' (both for little diversity and also to try dual mic'ing at some point).
I still would recommend, mic - interface - pc/with program.
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Tis indeed all a bit confusing :lol: To be honest, I'm not deadly-serious about my recordings, but I just like to have a decent tone on em, got a bit sick of the v-amps models recently and prefer a proper amps tone..
So a preamp or interface is definately needed to go into the computer?
My original idea was to just run the SM57 straight into the mic socket on laptop (using some adaptors or something) till I could afford a proper interface/preamp but from what you guys are saying looks like thats not even gonna work/produce ok results?
Dakine, just wondering, which do you prefer for amps, the shure or blue ball?
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_tom_
I used my US contact (missus LOL) to have Blue Ball sent to and bought it over net so not seen it yet :)
I decided to buy shure and Blue Ball for tonal difference (as in response/sound received) from speaker.
FWIW for the price I would go Shure for now.
Problem is with mic - pc (I have laptop myself, albeit in Texas still) and it does not have good enough soundcard for this idea.
IMO, get a shure and an interface and play with that setup till ya want better results or whatever. Heck mic placement,clipping etc. is gonna keep ya uber busy for awhile anyway :)
Was not trying to mislead with the Phantom Power references, just easy to explain why (IMO) you need an interface rather than somthing else that way (mentally slapping my hand for you). I have read a little on the v-amp for ya now and cannot see a 'good' or even do-able way to use it in the chain (not easilly anyway). And am sure your laptop will not be great either.
A standalone interface (like those M-Audio ones) will stand you in good stead for now and future, that and a shure and then HAVE FUN and PLAY! :)
And to be honest, if trying to save money, the diff. in shure/blueball will almost cover an interface (I think). Although all have read/heard about Blue Ball makes it an amazing mic. Just costly in UK (mine cost $80 summit new).
Nick
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$80 is only around £45 ish though, actually cheaper than I've seen SM57s advertised for. Then again the SM57 is "tried and tested" or whatever.
I remember I had a link to where you could get an SM57 for around £35 but I tried it earlier and it no longer works :(
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Tom, What I'm gonna be getting for christmas is a different solution to those mentioned...Technically there's less you can do with it than some of the other methods, but it wins for me due to portability.
The solution is this (http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/dp-01fx/66644): A Tascam Digital Portastudio. It's basically like the old school tape 8-Track recorders, except it records to an inbuilt 40GB harddrive.
My setup will consist of SM57 --> Tascam, nice and simple. The downsides are that it can only record 8 tracks in one song, can only use 2 inputs at a time (wouldn't work for drums for example), and probably doesn't record to the same quality as direct to PC.
The positive elements, however, are that it can export individual tracks to PC (effectively overcoming the 8 track problem) which I believe could then be run through PC editing software (although I could be wrong). It also eliminates the need of your amp to be near the PC (which isn't possible in my house - key reason I chose this option). It also has Phantom power and TRS (guitar jack) inputs, so it can be used for mic or direct recording.
So yeah, that's what I'm gonna get, as it can be taken with me to uni when I go and it's just so much easier to my mind :drink:
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Was gonna get one of those ages ago, way too expensive for me though. To be honest I thought just a mic and interface would be much more simple. Though I have a laptop so can easily move it near to the amp, obviously different for you..
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Yeah, that's fair enough - I have a laptop, but it's old and would never cope with recording so this was my best option really :drink:
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or a Zoom MRS8 ;)
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Ok. When I get the SM57, what kinda cabling will I need? XLR of some sort, but what exactly? Theres male and female from what I can see. Just need a cable to go from mic to interface really..
Oh and theres this cable, thought until I get an interface I could just use this to run the mic straight into soundcard or V-amp, just to tide me over
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/4551
On the Shure site I see it says the SM57 has a male connector. So does that mean it needs a female one to plug into that? Guessing so, just want to be sure before I order cables willy nilly :lol:
Edit again! Just read through one of Bainzys threads which he says he uses this Behringer mic pre, and it sounded fine to me, well his tone was good anyway ;)
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/1937
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Hello! Sorry to chip in but I got that laptop in vegas with a slot for the cards on the side so i can use a card on the go, so to speak. The E-mu system plugs straight into that and it's got two XLR Mic sockets both with phantom power should you need it. A virtual mixer which is the bollocks, a cu-base software bundle with guitar amp sims too. It's a fair old thing dude!
Dawsons in Reading had loads of different firewire interfaces that will take a SM-57. Your soundcard won't be able to handle lots of tracks though i would have thought using a firewire intereface, that's where the E-MU will out gun the others. It's a monster for the dosh and would make an ideal pressy for all those carwashes and lawn mowing!! :lol:
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Ok. When I get the SM57, what kinda cabling will I need? XLR of some sort, but what exactly? Theres male and female from what I can see. Just need a cable to go from mic to interface really..
Oh and theres this cable, thought until I get an interface I could just use this to run the mic straight into soundcard or V-amp, just to tide me over
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/4551
On the Shure site I see it says the SM57 has a male connector. So does that mean it needs a female one to plug into that? Guessing so, just want to be sure before I order cables willy nilly :lol:
Edit again! Just read through one of Bainzys threads which he says he uses this Behringer mic pre, and it sounded fine to me, well his tone was good anyway ;)
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/1937
The XLR Mic cable have a male and female at either end as standard. The male end plugs into the mic and has a little clip to hold it in. The other goes to what ever you need, mixers ect. The quality of the cable is subjected to how much do you want to spend on it as a guitar cable is.
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I saw those E-Mu cards but theyre just way too expensive for me (even after doing all my chores :P ). So when Shure say the SM57 has a male connector, it means they need a male plug? Makes more sense for em to call it a female connector, its just confusing :lol:
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Tom there's an old saying, 'You have to spend money to save money'!! :wink:
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If its got a male connector it should need a female plug, ie the mic has the 3 prongs sticking out and you need a cable with the 3 holes to shove 'em in.
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If its got a male connector it should need a female plug, ie the mic has the 3 prongs sticking out and you need a cable with the 3 holes to shove 'em in.
all 3 of em'! :lol:
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hahah lovely. Guess I'll get the mic first then see what connectors I'll need.
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with a line6 toneport, do you have to use their amp models? I'd use them at first, but when i get a decent amp id want to just record that with a Mic.
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noop
you can use the phantom mic inputs to record straight from amp.