Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: dave_mc on October 19, 2006, 11:05:45 PM
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Hi guys,
I was just wondering, what's the general consensus on what sounds better in a twin humbucker guitar as an option for slightly cleaner tones- coil tap or split?
It'd be a Miracle Man bridge, Cold Sweat neck, by the way.
Thanks for any help!
:drink:
EDIT (for clarity): I suppose, at its simplest, my question is this: what's the difference in tone between a coil tap and coil split?
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Don't get the question Dave. A coil-split humbucker is when one coil is turned off to give a single-coil tone. A coil tap (to my understanding) would mean taking out a "tap" wire part-way through the windings of both coils, leaving a lower-output but still humbucking pickup. As far as I know, no-one has done this except Schecter on their old Monstertone pickups. :?
Do you mean coil split vs. series/parallel? Series/parallel gets my vote. The parallel tone is usually very different from the series tone, especially with higher output pickups. And it's still humcancelling.
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prs 513 has a reduced power tapped humbucker mode, although it does technically have 5 single coils rather than H/S/H. i like the idea of tapped humbuckers, you could have a Les Paul that would switch between, say, a black dog and a stormy monday output. obviously you can't do miracle man to stormy monday.
i can sense Tim rolling his eyes thinking "oh god, they're all gonna start ringing up asking about tapped humbuckers now" :roll:
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Nah, Tim's too busy learning all those Iced Earth songs to worry about tapped humbuckers. Over to Steve...?
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I guess what I mean is, which sounds better, in your opinion:
getting the pickups tapped at 1000 (or whatever number is customary) less winds to still ensure humbucking operation?
or
just making do with a split, for semi-single coil operation (problem with this one is, they won't sound exactly like singles)?
for getting slightly cleaner (less gainy) tones, as those are pretty "metal" pickups.
it's for a custom guitar, by the way, I can get it wired whatever way I want (within reason, I don't want 50 million switches, lol). Oh, and just in case it's not clear, I fully intend to have series wiring (with full winds) as well, lol. I'll use a push-push knob to access the splits or taps. I just want them for a little extra versatility.
Thanks for the input so far! Now I'm off to get food... I'll be back tomorrow. :D
:drink:
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I'd imagine it would sound like rolling down the volume pot only with the same tone? Probably wrong but its just a guess.
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I'd imagine it would sound like rolling down the volume pot only with the same tone? Probably wrong but its just a guess.
With coil splitting, you get less mids, and the pickup sounds 'more' like a single coil.
From what has been said some pickups split better than others.
Rob...
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ooh yeah I was referring to tapping the coil as opposed to splitting :oops:
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I'd imagine it would sound like rolling down the volume pot only with the same tone? Probably wrong but its just a guess.
thas what i'd have thought, as the volume pot just reduces the output of the pup, which is why it cleans up the sound
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Yeah Tim must be like "Oh what the $%&# do they want now?"
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Coil ... what? Tapping or splitting the power of a humbucker?
LEAVE THE HALL!
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Yea I'm confused as well.
So tapping a humbucker is reducing the power etc meaning less gain right?
And Splitting it is a switch that makes it 2 seperate single coils right?
BTW if you want to have a coil split option on the neck and bridge would it just be a question of pulling up the volume knob to activate the split?
Would you have to have a seperate push pull knob for each pickups?
And once split could you choose which pickup out of the 2 humbucker coils you used as a single coil?
So many questions :P
RorySRV,
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well Rory, you can have seperate switches for each pickup or a single switch to do both, whichever you prefer. and yes, it is possible to switch between the coils. i have a Patrick Eggle Berlin with a three way rotary switch that does just that; in the middle it's a humbucker, turn one way you get the inside coil, the other for the outside coil. and yes, a tone control would have been more useful :roll: . there is very little difference between the two coils of one humbucker.
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haha, that's what i get for making a new thread at 10.30pm when I'm tired! (EDIT: 10.05 d'oh!)
anyway, to clarify:
as far as I know you can either get a pickup wired for coil-splitting (4 conductor) which will turn off one of the coils of the humbucker to make it sound a bit more like a single coil, or you can get a coil-tap, which takes a wire out of the humbucker (both coils active, i.e. still humbucking) at less than full winds, to give you a tone with less gain.
My question is, if any of you have tried both options, which sounds better for a slightly less gainy tone for cleans and similar stuff?
I can get either, since it's a custom guitar.
I'm guessing the split will sound a little more like a single coil, but they never really sound exactly like a single coil since they aren't constructed the same.
:drink:
EDIT: I suppose, at its simplest, my question is this: what's the difference in tone between a coil tap and coil split?
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Yea I'm confused as well.
(a) So tapping a humbucker is reducing the power etc meaning less gain right?
(b) And Splitting it is a switch that makes it 2 seperate single coils right?
(c) BTW if you want to have a coil split option on the neck and bridge would it just be a question of pulling up the volume knob to activate the split?
(d) Would you have to have a seperate push pull knob for each pickups?
(e) And once split could you choose which pickup out of the 2 humbucker coils you used as a single coil?
So many questions :P
RorySRV,
(a) yeah, i think so.
(b) yup, though only one coil will be active. It won't buck hum any more.
(c) yep, assuming you use a push-pull and not push-push knob (or some other device for activating the split). I think it's normally the tone knob that's wired to activate the split though.
(d) you can... it's up to you. it gives you more versatility if you have two, because that way in the in-between setting, you can have on pickup fully humbucking, and one pickup split. Depends what you want, of course.
(e) yeah, depending on the way you wire it.
:drink:
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As far as I know Tim only does coil tap on P-90's. I am sure this is because of these reasons:
a) it is a pain in the arse to do
b) there needs to be enough turns to make the split viable (a p-90 has 10,000 turns roughly for a bridge position
c) on a humbucker there would need to be 6 wires to tap the coils (tapping one would still need 5)
Contrary to most of the belief here, there is not a significant volume drop when you tap (where Tim puts the tap anyway). What you get is a thinning of the sound, there are less mids. THis was what I wanted when I first asked him about it, and if you think about the way the coil is wound you should be able to see why this happens.
When you tap you reduce the width of the windings giving a more focused magnetic field, hence a 'thinner' sound.
Anyway, I prefer parallel too, unless I am combining coils (like the PRS wiring).
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^ ok, cool, thanks phil, that's the kind of answer I was after. I was kind of waiting for you to answer, I knew you had some cool wiring in some of your guitars.
So what you're saying is, in your opinion, I should go with 4 conductor, but instead of getting a coil split wired, use that to get parallel wiring when i use the push-push knob? and (in your opinion) that sounds better than a coil-split? (i tried parallel wiring in a stock ibanez rga121, for the neck pickup, and it was nice)
:drink:
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Yes, use the push pull for series parallel. You have noise cancelling in every position and don't have to worry about how you combine the coils (to get humbucking with coil split and combine the magnet has to be reversed in one pickup)
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Series/Parallel = manly
Coil tap/split = unmanly
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Series/Parallel = manly
Coil tap/split = unmanly
:lol: I wired the manly Series/Parallel switch with the Slowhands in my strat - was a bitch to wire, and one of my switch combinations now gives no sound at all, but it was worth it for the (almost) neck humbucker sound I can get out of it now :lol:
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my PAINKILLERS are SPLIT (one coil from each) and it certainly is NOT unmanly.
Then again I like variety and all that, and WTF would I know anyway :roll:
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my PAINKILLERS are SPLIT (one coil from each) and it certainly is NOT unmanly.
Then again I like variety and all that, and WTF would I know anyway :roll:
Well said. I have no reply to that, besides this:
:headphones3: :violin2: :grr: :orcass: :orczz: :haha: :wallbash:
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saved re-wiring a bloody circuit board anyways :) As the damn thing was wired that way otherwise I would'nt have bothered :P
Although it does sound good (when I knock the switch into centre pos. by mistake ROFLMAO).
And actually, blending pups with piezo works quite well, late at night after beverages :)
Ben I like my 'sauce' abit heavier than you so would'nt go outta my way to dilute a Painkiller ;)
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Dont mean to hijack the thread mate, but what custom is it?
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(a) yeah, i think so.
(b) yup, though only one coil will be active. It won't buck hum any more.
(c) yep, assuming you use a push-pull and not push-push knob (or some other device for activating the split). I think it's normally the tone knob that's wired to activate the split though.
(d) you can... it's up to you. it gives you more versatility if you have two, because that way in the in-between setting, you can have on pickup fully humbucking, and one pickup split. Depends what you want, of course.
(e) yeah, depending on the way you wire it.
Kool.
And a series parallel switch is a switch that makes it that say you have a H-S-H it skips the middle one out?
Or does it mean you can combine one coil from the bridge humbucker and one coil from the neck humbucker?
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seies/parallel all happens in one pickup. a standard humbucker has the two coils wired in series, (i hope :oops: ), the switch allows you to change the coils to parallel, which will give a thinner, more single-coil like, but still humbucking sound.
i hope i've got series and parallel the right way around, i'm sure someone will politely correct me if not
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No need to fear correction Mr Blue, you are indeed correct :drink:
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Series/Parallel = manly
Coil tap/split = unmanly
I wired your Snakeskin Wayne Cold Sweat with a split :shock:
However I did make the split coil be in series with the Trilogy :P
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Series/Parallel = manly
Coil tap/split = unmanly
I wired your Snakeskin Wayne Cold Sweat with a split :shock:
However I did make the split coil be in series with the Trilogy :P
Then it's not split. It's a parallel humbucker!
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Dont mean to hijack the thread mate, but what custom is it?
the long-awaited legra, mark. Now I just have to decide on a headstock shape. I had a go with the various kisekae programs on the net, and then tried to "alter" them a little with MS paint (that bastion of the cheapo would-be artist). The results weren't pretty. :(
:lol:
Yes, use the push pull for series parallel. You have noise cancelling in every position and don't have to worry about how you combine the coils (to get humbucking with coil split and combine the magnet has to be reversed in one pickup)
Thanks, phil. That's a good point.
:drink:
Series/Parallel = manly
Coil tap/split = unmanly
:lol:
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the long-awaited legra
Understatement? You've been going on about Legra since your UG days :lol:
What spec you got so far?
How's this (http://www.soundsinscale.com/gallery/guitars/baxter/baxter_5.jpg) for a headstock? :P That's what I was gonna get on my custom :drink:
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^ that's a bit too PRS-y, in my opinion. I don't think it'd suit a king v either.
in my defence, as well as procrastination, my masters took longer than I expected, I didn't have the time to think about a new guitar.