Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: MDV on October 30, 2006, 05:09:22 PM
-
Anyone tried or heard an invader?
Know of any clips?
Its top of my list for new amp at the moment.
-
cannot find any clips yet :(
Only just available in stores or still on order it seem's :(
A guy said he tried it at the factory and was very excited, but at about £1,800 I would hope so too :)
-
1500 from thomann music
http://www.thomann.de/gb/engl_invader_150.htm
Thats the first I've seen it on sale.
I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on it.
-
DO it :)
I think thats alot for an Engl but that's just me :)
-
I dunno man. The specs are amazing. The closest mesa, for example, is the road king and thats twice as much.
But its tough with no idea what it sounds like.
I'm half "Do it" and I'm half "I have to wait a bit anyway, so wait till I've tried one".
-
£1,527 at Beyers too.
Thing is, getting VERY close to MANY Boutique amps at that price with TOTAL hand wiring and NO Valves on PCB mounts etc.
Anywhoo, I like spec's too, just think it's alot.
Def. wait to play it at the price I think.
Remember midi pedal is extra too and not cheap.
-
id hit it if i didnt have a phobia of midi\dials and controls :P
All the ENGL gainy tones in 1 box....it will be more than enough varieties sonic carnage for even the most hardened tonemeister!
-
Who needs 4 EQs / 8 sounds?
You think they will really sound so different in a stage/gig context?
That would be too much for me to handle all these options - especially when in stage fever ...
-
150w? Are you going to gig in super giant stadiums with no sound system? :lol:
Never understood why the debauchery of power, 50w is more than enough.
I love Engl but that is just overkill.
-
I'd wait till I tried it, and also wait till the 100 (or even 50) watter came out, as they'd be cheaper.
But then you know my procrastination tendencies...
EDIT: are you selling the screamer to finance this?
-
Ok, first off I'm a git for liking different sounds on different days of the week, so lots of options is great for me.
And 150W isnt that much louder than 100W: just more headroom. Plus EL34s disort earlier than 6l6.
Dave, your savafe is 120 isnt it? How much to you have to crank it?
(Plus, I seem to recall you ordered it without trying??? C'mon, fess up!)
When I have the new head, whatever it is, I'll sell both the screamer and the TSL. I do have plans for some of my money, other than guitar stuff, and would rather not have a grands worth sitting in amps I dont need.
Hence the new one has to make both the screamer and the marshall comprehensively obsolete!
-
^ quiet you!
:lol:
in my defence, I got a great deal- £1149 for a savage se, where sites over here were selling for £2600... to be fair, I wouldn't have given £2600 for it, but you know what I mean. it was a hell of a deal, they were the last few left, I had to overcome my usual procrastination... and I got lucky.
Also, my savage SE has triode operation- which cuts it down to half wattage/half volume depending on who you believe (I'm inclined to believe half volume). Also, mine might be 100 watts, the manual says 120, and the back of the amp says 100 (or vice versa, I can't remember- it's a mismatch, anyway!).
In your case, you aren't bound by a great deal, so (if you're patient, and i admit I have either superhuman levels of patience, or procrastination, or just plain shame-faced laziness, which helps me out in waiting) I'd wait to get to try it. Before I bought mine, I pm'ed yoeri (who runs the unofficial engl forum and owns a savage se) a lot, and was able to compare to the other engls I'd tried etc- according to the engl bumph, the invader is quite a new concept- it's kind of a dark horse, in other words.
I realise I'm just trying to defend what I did, and to be perfectly honest- I got DAMN lucky. In fact, for the first week or two I was a little disappointed. Then I started to realise how kickass it was.
So yeah, I got lucky- I wouldn't recommend buying something without trying, and it was only very specific circumstances that led me to take such a chance, which is totally unlike me.
I also realise I wrote I can pass up a deal in your other thread- guess you caught me out! :lol:
Anyway, as far as how far do I have to crank it... the power amp starts to come into things (with the channel volumes maxed) from around 4-5 on the master volume... and obviously, the higher the better.
On pentode/full power mode, full volume is enough to feel like someone is literally punching you in the chest. It's awesome, in other words, but you do need the ability to crank it. It does sound a lot better up full...
this has been another long-winded post, courtesy of Dave_Mc. :lol:
EDIT: what about an Engl SE? if you're willing to buy from beyers or thomann, you can pick one up for about 3000 euro, which is around £2000... it has MIDI built-in, you just have to fork out for the MIDI footswitch, which is around £150. And it has the ability to use either el34's or 6L6's... and has half-power operation.
It's super versatile. But I guess you'd want to try the invader as well...
-
Savage SE still on evilbay for £800
-
£1,527 at Beyers too.
Thing is, getting VERY close to MANY Boutique amps at that price with TOTAL hand wiring and NO Valves on PCB mounts etc.
Anywhoo, I like spec's too, just think it's alot.
Def. wait to play it at the price I think.
Remember midi pedal is extra too and not cheap.
dude... engls arent hand wired.. they are on PCB boards and what's more, some of the cables that are in there (hopefully used for midi switching) are the same you use in your computer as the disk data cable.)
search the net a bit for pictures.
i must say it tipped me off from ENGLs.. they do sound good (still waiting for the store to get them, so i can try some of em out myself), but with that kinda wireing, and cables, for that kind of money, i expect a lot more.
i was dead set for a thunder, but seeing that, it realy tiped me back to the GH50L
-
£1,527 at Beyers too.
Thing is, getting VERY close to MANY Boutique amps at that price with TOTAL hand wiring and NO Valves on PCB mounts etc.
Anywhoo, I like spec's too, just think it's alot.
Def. wait to play it at the price I think.
Remember midi pedal is extra too and not cheap.
dude... engls arent hand wired.. they are on PCB boards and what's more, some of the cables that are in there (hopefully used for midi switching) are the same you use in your computer as the disk data cable.)
search the net a bit for pictures.
i must say it tipped me off from ENGLs.. they do sound good (still waiting for the store to get them, so i can try some of em out myself), but with that kinda wireing, and cables, for that kind of money, i expect a lot more.
i was dead set for a thunder, but seeing that, it realy tiped me back to the GH50L
Dude,
learn to read.
I said it is getting CLOSE to a handwired boutique amp in price!
Sheesh. Engl do make nice tone machines but at the price, i.e. £1,500+ a handwired, non-pcb tube mount amp etc. is emminently poss.
-
Dude,
learn to read.
I said it is getting CLOSE to a handwired boutique amp in price!
Sheesh. Engl do make nice tone machines but at the price, i.e. £1,500+ a handwired, non-pcb tube mount amp etc. is emminently poss.
oh.. my bad. you english people confuse me sometimes =P
here's some of the pics and i must say those cables concern me quite a bit.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/michavan/Svg_TPot_001.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/michavan/Svg_TPot_002.jpg
http://www.msvonline.net/Engl_Biasing/Bias_003.jpg
http://www.msvonline.net/Engl_Biasing/Bias_004.jpg
http://www.msvonline.net/Engl_Biasing/Bias_008.jpg
-
If it sounds good and works good, whats the problem?
-
^thats what i was thinking.
-
Davey
look at it this way (remember I own an Engl, till I get money for it next month and it's gone anyway) and have looked inside.
It serves a purpose at , mostly, a good price.
Think of a ferrari and an Mitsubishi Evo. The Evo can hang with the ferrari round many roads, it aint built so well and costs less but gets the job done.
As for ribbon cables, I agree, the build is'nt as anal/meticulous as some higher price amps but, I worked offshore for over 13 years as an ROV (Remotely Operated Vehicle) Superintendant. These mini submarines are state of the art and cost over £1,000,000 for the sub alone, foget the titanium robotic arms, S.I.T. cameras etc., and they are full of ribbon cable. Why? cos it does the job and does it WELL. Out of all the electrical/electronic issues I ever had it was very rarely a ribbon cable.
The point is, to me anyway, Engl is getting dearer. For the SE/Invader price I think there are better made choices. Now thats not to say those choices sound better, they are just built better with better parts and more care/attention to detail.
-
If it sounds good and works good, whats the problem?
reliability issues. knowing that it's got cables, usualy used for disk data transfer, of inferior construction..
seriously, the voltages in an amp are prettydamn high. i wouldnt want one of those cables to melt and start touching another..
in europe it's not all bad, but in the US engls are reaching butique prices, with an inferior construction to splawn/bogner.
engls, for me are in the camp that sounds good, but i wouldnt use one.
and i'm pretty anal about the stuff i buy.
-
The point is, to me anyway, Engl is getting dearer. For the SE/Invader price I think there are better made choices. Now thats not to say those choices sound better, they are just built better with better parts and more care/attention to detail.
exactly.
for the same price, for the most part ;)
as for ribbon cable. iwouldnt use it for anything that goes past a couple of mA and 50V MAX. and especialy not in the enviroment of a guitar amp, where currents, and voltages exceed a couple hundred mA and V respectively
-
I would'nt give a STUFF about voltages.
A byproduct of valves is HEAT, thats my concern if any.
The ROV's operated on topside voltage of 3,000 volts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IMO there is nothing at all wrong with ribbon cable.
However, tubes directly on pcb boards, well guess where some heat dissipation goes? Which can impact the board,wiring and components.
As for Engl high cost in US. Well Mesa cost stupid money here. And right now the US exchange rate sucks in Europes favour.
They are built 'to price' plain and simple. They can be good value and good amps but the more complex they get the closer to a 'handwired' amp 'in price' they seem to get.
-
This is interesting.
Now, if theres no problem with ribbon cable, etc...whats the problem?
You can get more anal about the build, but if its passed an acceptable reliablility cut off then it makes no difference...?
Plus, I can get an invader for 200 less than I can get a dual rectifier.
Name me an amp thats got similar capabilities at a similar price, and boutique hand wiring. SeriouslyL I'd love to know (I'm shopping for a super amp, dont ya know!).
I think unless bogner or diezel absolutely blow me away I wont be spending 2500 - 3000 on an amp (minus cab, at that!).
Currently I'm thinking:
Framus cobra
Hughes and kettner switchblade
Engl invader
Engl powerball
kock powertone
with a definate mission to try:
Uberschall
Shiva
xtc
Herbert
VH4
I think splawn are off the map: great reports but I get the impression they're a hot-rodded marshall, where I want a hot-rodded mesa :twisted: :twisted: And far more importantly I'll never get to try one.
Unless I can get hold of the guy and say "I want an amp to sound like 'THIS', 'THIS' and 'THIS', how much"?
-
for frigs sake, I did'nt start this.
I still own an Engl and say ribbon cable etc. IMO is FINE.
Just IMO the Invader is getting costly is all, sheesh.
If ya want all the woops and whistles from my research the Invader is it, it is a very uncanny resemblence of a Diezel Herbert, but about £600 less.
But I would'nt drop that kinda cash without experience with one ;)
-
well.. you can get those tube spacers for pcb mounted sockets, but you cant replace the cables.
no disrespect, but ribbon cables is the last thing i would use in an amp. regardless of those little toy submarine voltages ;) (though i realy do wonder how much of those 3kV actualy went through ribbon cables, purely from an engineering point of view)
just my opinion nothing more.. and i couldnt care less if you dont agree or if you like it or not.. like i said.. sound good, but i wouldnt get one.
Unless I can get hold of the guy and say "I want an amp to sound like 'THIS', 'THIS' and 'THIS', how much"?
if you have to ask, you cant afford it :lol:
-
Davey, 3,000 volts over bout a mile, but respect ya thoughts, just don't worry me as much as the heat.
MDV, whttabout this?
http://81.169.170.65/beyers/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8_29_260&products_id=4000809&osCsid=ec83d377e9e76fde16c0d12e083d52ac
£300 more but totally handmade and lifetime gaurantee
-
for frigs sake, I did'nt start this.
I still own an Engl and say ribbon cable etc. IMO is FINE.
Just IMO the Invader is getting costly is all, sheesh.
If ya want all the woops and whistles from my research the Invader is it, it is a very uncanny resemblence of a Diezel Herbert, but about £600 less.
But I would'nt drop that kinda cash without experience with one ;)
Chill mate.
I'm just looking for advice here. All welcome!!!
Sorry if I seemed argumentative, I'm saying that if there is better, then by all means show it to me and I'll look into it.
I didnt know the diezels were that cheap: I was under the impression they were up at 3000ish-£
I've heard diezels live (albeit though PAs) and the tone seemed well worth 2000 + cab to me.
Anyone know any prices?
And I can easily accept that something that costs less to make can be just as good if demostrated so. I dont want to pay for anal costruction if it doesnt actually give me any advantage.
And as I understand it engls are very reliable....never heard of a problem.
Davey: cute, but trust me, I can afford it ;) but is it worth it?
-
bud I have been talking to UK distributor, have all prices etc.
About to buy new amp myself :)
-
Davey, 3,000 volts over bout a mile, but respect ya thoughts, just don't worry me as much as the heat.
MDV, whttabout this?
http://81.169.170.65/beyers/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8_29_260&products_id=4000809&osCsid=ec83d377e9e76fde16c0d12e083d52ac
£300 more but totally handmade and lifetime gaurantee
Thanks man!
You anticipated the diezel price request admirably!
-
want the UK prices?
-
Davey, 3,000 volts over bout a mile, but respect ya thoughts, just don't worry me as much as the heat.
good for you, but i dont share your optimism :P i dont trust em realy.
Davey: cute, but trust me, I can afford it ;) but is it worth it?
lol
then why not a bogner?
or better yet a freakin MATAMP!!!! those things blew me out of the water in london!!! and they allow for customization. slight tonal shaping, and stuff. they're from up in huddersfield.
-
Yes please.
-
as of last week
two Herberts in stock (if not in usual 3-6 month wait)
One Einstein and two I think VH4's
Herbert £2300
4x12 with V30's £885
and just incase you might be interested Diezel's midi-controller foot board the 'Columbus' is £295
So, from Germany save lil less than VAT I think (plus shipping I guess).
VHT are difficult (moreso) GuitarGuitar is best stockist I think.
And Mansons in Exeter have Bogner range in stock (as of last week,early this week).
Nick
-
BTW
James Leader is the guy to talk to with Diezels.
he will set up a FOC studio to try em and play as loud as ya want.
Located in North London (outside congestion zone).
-
Davey, 3,000 volts over bout a mile, but respect ya thoughts, just don't worry me as much as the heat.
good for you, but i dont share your optimism :P i dont trust em realy.
Davey: cute, but trust me, I can afford it ;) but is it worth it?
lol
then why not a bogner?
or better yet a freakin MATAMP!!!! those things blew me out of the water in london!!! and they allow for customization. slight tonal shaping, and stuff. they're from up in huddersfield.
Again, its the "Dont want to pay for what will do me no good"
I know bogners are supposed to be amazing, and I'll hunt some down and try them. But at the moment all I have to go on is reputation + specs, and reputation is subjective so its mailnly specs.
I'll make concrete judgements when I actually here the damn things!
VH4 just went to the top of the list, next to the invader :D Nice one dakine!
-
very welcome Mark :D
-
Yes please.
http://www.matamp.co.uk/lx.htm
this is the one you should be lookin at.
both me and ben (TO) were realy impressed by it. tonal variety and it's got gain for miles.
though about amps... is it just me, or is it realy harder to get deals, or in store discounts on amps, than on guitars?
-
when ya get outta the mass stuff, I think it takes ALOT more searching for a deal myself.
-
Cheers davey, that looks like a candidate
4 el34s @ 60W :o :o :twisted:
-
good job ya don't fancy a Diezel Herbert Davey,
I spy a pesky Ribbon Cable :o
http://www.andreasrauscher.de/diezel/new_switch_14.jpg
:D
-
good job ya don't fancy a Diezel Herbert Davey,
I spy a pesky Ribbon Cable :o
http://www.andreasrauscher.de/diezel/new_switch_14.jpg
:D
lol
i bet it's used for midi switching
-
dude... engls arent hand wired.. they are on PCB boards and what's more, some of the cables that are in there (hopefully used for midi switching) are the same you use in your computer as the disk data cable.)
search the net a bit for pictures.
i must say it tipped me off from ENGLs.. they do sound good (still waiting for the store to get them, so i can try some of em out myself), but with that kinda wireing, and cables, for that kind of money, i expect a lot more.
i was dead set for a thunder, but seeing that, it realy tiped me back to the GH50L
you gotta remember as well, man, thunder =/= invader, or savage se, or se...
I'm not arguing, or trying to put you down, i'm just saying is all.
Davey
look at it this way (remember I own an Engl, till I get money for it next month and it's gone anyway) and have looked inside.
It serves a purpose at , mostly, a good price.
Think of a ferrari and an Mitsubishi Evo. The Evo can hang with the ferrari round many roads, it aint built so well and costs less but gets the job done.
As for ribbon cables, I agree, the build is'nt as anal/meticulous as some higher price amps but, I worked offshore for over 13 years as an ROV (Remotely Operated Vehicle) Superintendant. These mini submarines are state of the art and cost over £1,000,000 for the sub alone, foget the titanium robotic arms, S.I.T. cameras etc., and they are full of ribbon cable. Why? cos it does the job and does it WELL. Out of all the electrical/electronic issues I ever had it was very rarely a ribbon cable.
The point is, to me anyway, Engl is getting dearer. For the SE/Invader price I think there are better made choices. Now thats not to say those choices sound better, they are just built better with better parts and more care/attention to detail.
I must just point out that I haven't got a notion about build quality etc.
But, I guess I just have to point out, though- most of those engls have 4 channels, with several more footswitchable sounds. The handwired amps in the same price category, while costing the same amount, have far less features etc. They're frequently one channel, maybe two if you're lucky. There's no way you're getting a boutique hand-wired, 4 channel amp with twin master volumes for the same price as an engl.
Now, I'm not saying either way is better- if you want one (or two) kickass tones, the boutique hand-wired is the way to go.
But if you want versatility, the engl is the way to go.
It's not really comparing like with like, is what I'm saying.
And I know that tonewise, there are very few amps (even boutique) that I've tried that compare even equally to my savage se (though I admit that's subjective, and hardly scientific since I haven't been able to try them head to head). And that's before you even try to compare the versatility.
At the end of the day, it depends what you want, really. And for each person it's different. I know that mark knows enough about amps to do his homework, and take our suggestions and then do his own research from there- i doubt he's going to take any of our suggestions at face-value without trying them himself, that's for sure.... :lol:
EDIT: i just realise mark already said all this. I guess I should have read down. :lol:
-
This is interesting.
Now, if theres no problem with ribbon cable, etc...whats the problem?
You can get more anal about the build, but if its passed an acceptable reliablility cut off then it makes no difference...?
Plus, I can get an invader for 200 less than I can get a dual rectifier.
Name me an amp thats got similar capabilities at a similar price, and boutique hand wiring. SeriouslyL I'd love to know (I'm shopping for a super amp, dont ya know!).
I think unless bogner or diezel absolutely blow me away I wont be spending 2500 - 3000 on an amp (minus cab, at that!).
Currently I'm thinking:
Framus cobra
Hughes and kettner switchblade
Engl invader
Engl powerball
kock powertone
with a definate mission to try:
Uberschall
Shiva
xtc
Herbert
VH4
I think splawn are off the map: great reports but I get the impression they're a hot-rodded marshall, where I want a hot-rodded mesa :twisted: :twisted: And far more importantly I'll never get to try one.
Unless I can get hold of the guy and say "I want an amp to sound like 'THIS', 'THIS' and 'THIS', how much"?
the switchblade is shitee. try it, definitely, but it sounds like a solid state.
also, don't dicount the engl se- it's only a few hundred more than the invader. I'm not telling you to buy it, but I am telling you to try it! :D
EDIT: the diezels- the last time I was looking (around about a year ago), the vh4 was around £1800-£2200. Something like that. Not £3000, they're that in the states! it's definitely worth a try, though, IMO, the cleans weren't great, and it didn't get as "in-your-face" with the high gain as engl does. though I'm guessing once you crank it, it'll have more gain than you'd ever need. I haven't tried the herbert.