Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: mattisfrommars on November 14, 2006, 09:55:55 PM
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Although i do love my squier, and (for a squier at least) it's a decent guitar- i have recently found out that if i save up enough of my own money i could have a christmas present budget of around £350-400. (Yep, i'm old enough to have my own money AND young enough for my parents to buy me stuff. Life is good)
Now this is enough to buy a guitar that is a full step above my current one. (My squier was £200). The two guitars that have caught my eye are Washburn Idol WI65 (http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/8589) and the Prs Tremonti SE (http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/12379/a/r/e/base).
I play modern metal (in the vein of Lamb of God, but with more chuggy breakdown type riffs and some black metal type chord sequences- Dimmu Borgir et al)
Although i've yet to play either, i'm leaning towards the washburn. Name brand pickups (I believe it's a Duncan Distortion in the bridge and a SD '59 in the neck), "VCC" pots instead of tone pots which switch the humbucker from series to parallel- very cool. "Buzz feiten" tuning system, some fancy intonation bridge/nut thing that i don't quite understand. And the shape and finish just appeal to me more.
Both guitars are pretty much les pauls, although the washburn looks like it has easier access to the top frets. Both are mahogany body and neck with rosewood fingerboards. The washburn has a set neck, but i don't know what the PRS has. However, both guitars are cheaper versions of acclaimed guitars (One of the more expensive guitars in the wasburn idol range got 5 stars in this months total guitar. The only thing they didn't like were the EMG 81/85 that comes standard with that model)
Does anyone have any opinions on these guitars at all? Has anyone played either? I've emailed the shop to tell them to get in a WI65 for demo. But until then i'll be grateful for any ideas you might have
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Also, my dad has a Washburn electro acoustic guitar- which is the nicest guitar in the house. Except for maybe the old fender strat.
So i'm kinda biased towards washburn than a guitar company that i associate with the big chain store in liverpool where the guys selling stuff havn't a clue what they're selling.
"Unfortunatley, we can't let you demo the behringer wah pedal as it's in non-resealable packaging. But we all played one when the shipment arrived and it's just as good as the Dunlop in my opinion"... Yeah don't like dawsons
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TBH i wouldn't say any of those guitars were made for modern metal, however you would be right in saying that the Washburn is better. I like Washburns, very nice and well put together guitars. May i suggest a Washburn X series, a Washburn X50 perhaps, that is what you want for your style. That's just my opinion though.
Here it is: http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/13721
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/8580
2 wonderful finishs. (personally i would go with trans blue)
Lovely Arched top too.
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i believe it's a custom custom in the bridge of the washburn. not really aimed at metal.
you just gotta try them. they're both pretty good for the price. the yamaha aes 620 (duncan JB at bridge, no-name at neck) would be another option.
EDIT: £389 for the washburn? jeez, you can get them for £300, ditto the yamaha I mentioned.
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I've played a few of the SE PRSs and I liked the overall build quality and the fact they had decent pots. The neck is quite full, but you get used to it after a little while (I hated it at first). I'd certainly try one of those out.
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Only advice i can give is, either buy a guitar based on looks or if you have a good store near you pick something that feels good to play... dont worry about tone or hardware too much because you can switch it all out for better quality gear later on. So if you can get either of those guitars you listed, with the same body/neck, but with cheaper pickups installed id go for that.
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The bridge on the Tremonti means that your intonation will go down the toilet as soon as you downtune.
The Washburn is a good guitar, but I always think it looks kinda freaky.
For a cheap Lester you should also consider the Dean Evo special and Special Select (£260 and £325 respectively) which have really fast necks, tiny heels giving good access and are solidly bulit, good looking platforms for upgrading.
The Cort Z series is also worth a look.
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Maybe this is a bit crazy and out of your budget, but:
Gordon Smith GS 1.60 = £394
Ask them to take out the humbucker = -£47.60
Add BKP of your choice (e.g. Nailbomb) = £90
Total = £436.40
Voila! A British, hand-made, one-pickup metal monstrosity Les Paul for under £450.
Okay, it may not look as "metal" as some, but you'd be getting a really high quality guitar with a no-compromise pickup.
Gordon Smith are at:
http://www.fairplay.demon.co.uk/
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^ seconded. I was going to suggest that, but then he said he wanted a metal guitar, and the stock gs1 isn't really metal. But yeah, now you mention it, I'd forgotten that they'd remove the price of their own pickups.
Go with that!
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Hmmm,
as I said before I'm not sure what a metal guitar is, apart from a chunk of mahogany, with a nect you can get on with and some (usually) high output pickups.
If you are looking for that GS should be fine (or a bit more for an explorer shaped beastie)
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My only concern about the GS is that it has a fairly thin body, which might rob you of a bit of meat in the tone department. You can go for a thicker 1 3/4 inch slab for an extra £27, but the price is creeping up...
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^ yeah, that's true. but if you're willing to go to £400, surely you should be willing to go to £460 odd to get something that'll rule? That's the way I normally think, anyway. If I get something at £400 and don't like it as much, I've wasted £400...
Of course, if going above £400 means you have to do without something that's more important to you, you gotta stay under.
:drink:
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Hmmm,
as I said before I'm not sure what a metal guitar is, apart from a chunk of mahogany, with a nect you can get on with and some (usually) high output pickups.
If you are looking for that GS should be fine (or a bit more for an explorer shaped beastie)
I meant the pickups not being metal, mainly. (it was kind of ambiguous, I know, I knew what I meant in my head :lol: )
:drink:
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Used Gordon Smiths are superb value for money - I'd be tempted to get one off eBay and BKP it up.
Oh - I've done that with my GS-1 already :D
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The Gordon smith ones look great, but £400 is pushing it really and i doubt anywhere near me will stock it.
The EC400 looks good, but out of my price range. How about the cheaper EC200 (http://www.guitarvillage.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=2560&catid=3&manid=137&quantity=1&product=ESP+LTD+EC200QM%2C+See%2DThru+Black%2C+New)? anyone played that?
Dolphin say that they dont have the washburn in stock, and wont order one in "just to demo".
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What the hell does an Agathis body sound like?
Why not get an Epiphone Les Paul and BKP it up? It worked for _tom_ and Hunter who get great tones out of them, and my BKP'd Epiphone SG ain't too shabby either ;)
That would be a better way to spend £400 in my opinion if you're not going for a used Gordon Smith...
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Oh yeah, i read that as mahogany body and agathais neck.
Ew.
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where are you in the UK? there are quite a few GS dealers around, as far as I know. Though if the price is pushing it...
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Holiday Music have got a Tremonti second hand for £245. Tonepros bridge and a BK bridge pickup and it's a lotta guitar for £400
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What about this?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300046691329
Stick some BKPs in it... :twisted:
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"Unfortunatley, we can't let you demo the behringer wah pedal as it's in non-resealable packaging. But we all played one when the shipment arrived and it's just as good as the Dunlop in my opinion"... Yeah don't like dawsons
We used to have a great music shop called modern music in my town (Abingdon) the entire ground floor was music, and the staff were very accomodating and friendly. Now dawsons are in there's barely any CDs, there NO good amps, and they give way too much wall space over to some awful gibsons. GAH! when I want to try some decent guitars I have to travel into Oxford, to go into PMT (clearly named by a man with no girlfriend, apparently it stands for Professional Music Technology) or to the Oxford Guitar Gallery. Both are out of Oxford central too to make matters worse. Rant over.
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^ aye, when i went to the oxford guitar gallery when I was there just over a year ago, I thought it'd be a good idea to walk it. in 30 (celsius) degree heat.
:evil: :lol:
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"Unfortunatley, we can't let you demo the behringer wah pedal as it's in non-resealable packaging. But we all played one when the shipment arrived and it's just as good as the Dunlop in my opinion"... Yeah don't like dawsons
I missed that, for some reason. that's horrible customer service. not to mention the dunlop wah (assuming they're talking about the gcb95) is cr@p too, so that's basically a tacit agreement that "now you can buy a cr@p wah pedal, only for cheaper!"
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Feline have a SG with a pair of Warpigs for sale in Seconds Out, with photos! It's under 400 quid.
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The problem with the first epiphone SG is that he said he wants something that's a step up from a squier, and while epiphones are somewhat better, they hardly represent a significant step up. still, if he could get it for under a ton then he could do some serious pimping on it.
The Felined one does look like an interesting proposition though.
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i'd take that feline in a flash if i were yu! :) :)
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It's a no brainer, surely?
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Plastercaster
Might be a bit of a trek for you but there is a new(ish) guitar shop in Reading
http://www.theguitarworks.co.uk/
I've never been there but I know the guy that does all the guitar repair and set up work for the shop. He says that it is a decent shop and miles ahead of Dawsons. (Our local Modern Music has also become Dawsons and it is $hite!)
Mike
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i'd take that feline in a flash if i were yu! :) :)
I've seen the guitar in the flesh and I'd say go for it - It's very nice.
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Machine head have just got these in and they look awesome
http://www.machinehead.co.uk/images/washburn-jpgs/0-guitars/x50pro_spl_map-lg.jpg
(£399)
and this
http://www.machinehead.co.uk/images/washburn-jpgs/0-guitars/w166_spl_map-lg.jpg
(£429)
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But not very 'metal' - whatever that means!
:-)
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Machine head have just got these in and they look awesome
http://www.machinehead.co.uk/images/washburn-jpgs/0-guitars/x50pro_spl_map-lg.jpg
(£399)
and this
http://www.machinehead.co.uk/images/washburn-jpgs/0-guitars/w166_spl_map-lg.jpg
(£429)
Those are very nice!! I'm a sucker for spalted maple.
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i'd take that feline in a flash if i were yu! :) :)
I've seen the guitar in the flesh and I'd say go for it - It's very nice.
I had a go on it and it's very tasty and sounds fantastic 8)
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Plastercaster
Might be a bit of a trek for you but there is a new(ish) guitar shop in Reading
http://www.theguitarworks.co.uk/
I've never been there but I know the guy that does all the guitar repair and set up work for the shop. He says that it is a decent shop and miles ahead of Dawsons. (Our local Modern Music has also become Dawsons and it is $hite!)
Mike
I've been in The Guitar Works and it's a great shop. Dawsons is ok for a few things but it employs kids who arn't that up to speed on what's what.
Guitar works have a very good player who works there. He was in the sound proofed room and man can he play! He is a nice bloke too and hasn't dissapeared where the sun don't shine!
There's an old one around the corner too but I've never been in that one.
Man I miss Reading!
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The Gordon smith ones look great, but £400 is pushing it really and i doubt anywhere near me will stock it.
The EC400 looks good, but out of my price range. How about the cheaper EC200 (http://www.guitarvillage.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id=2560&catid=3&manid=137&quantity=1&product=ESP+LTD+EC200QM%2C+See%2DThru+Black%2C+New)? anyone played that?
Dolphin say that they dont have the washburn in stock, and wont order one in "just to demo".
Arent you based in Liverpool? Gordon Smiths are made in manchester. They are great quality especially for the price. I think it would be the best option to BKP a gordon smith. They are lots of good dealers who can do you a good second hand one. Could even look at some of the Gordon Smith SG-1's their SG copy, tis very nice
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Gordon Smiths are made in manchester. They are great quality especially for the price. I think it would be the best option to BKP a gordon smith. They are lots of good dealers who can do you a good second hand one. Could even look at some of the Gordon Smith SG-1's their SG copy, tis very nice
My SG-1 with MQ is very nice :D
As is my GS-1 with a Mule :D
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Sorry to have abandoned this thread for a while- i didn't realise new posts were arriving.
Yes, i'm based in liverpool- but i'd be willing to travel to manchester/warrington etc if i knew where any decent guitar shops were there.
I don't want to buy a guitar without playing it, because if i get one i dont like then i'm screwed.
Buying a guitar for around £200 and the BKPing it up is not an improvement in my eyes, as i may as well put BKPs in my squier. (that way i can look into wireless as well)
Does anyone know any decently sized places not too far from me with plenty of second hand guitars? (If i could get over the goofy headstock there'd be a dean les paul to tickle my fancy)
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Sounds great (just off the M60 near stockport) would be about 1-1 1/2 hours from you. ITs a very good shop and always has som gordon smiths in. :)
Let me know if you need directions, lol http://www.soundsgreatmusic.com
Joe
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I meant the pickups not being metal, mainly. (it was kind of ambiguous, I know, I knew what I meant in my head :lol: )
Unlike me who seldom knows what I meant in my head (or otherwise) :wallbash:
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Yes, i'm based in liverpool- but i'd be willing to travel to manchester/warrington etc if i knew where any decent guitar shops were there.
I don't want to buy a guitar without playing it, because if i get one i dont like then i'm screwed.
Buying a guitar for around £200 and the BKPing it up is not an improvement in my eyes, as i may as well put BKPs in my squier. (that way i can look into wireless as well)
As was suggested you could visit Gordon Smith, as they have been known since the early 80s as a place where you can test guitars and have a cup of coffee.
What sort of guitar do you really want ? is still probably the best question I can ask. What have you tried that you really like.
For 400 quid you are in the strange price range, meaning that you can get something pretty good but may not be what you actually want. Give us some more info to work with.
Rob...
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Unlike me who seldom knows what I meant in my head (or otherwise) :wallbash:
:lol:
:drink:
As was suggested you could visit Gordon Smith, as they have been known since the early 80s as a place where you can test guitars and have a cup of coffee.
What sort of guitar do you really want ? is still probably the best question I can ask. What have you tried that you really like.
For 400 quid you are in the strange price range, meaning that you can get something pretty good but may not be what you actually want. Give us some more info to work with.
Rob...
I agree. £400 should buy you a good guitar if you're willing to make a few compromises- you aren't quite at totally pro guitar price, but there are some very good guitars at that price. There are also some poor guitars which are sold on looks, brand names etc.
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Today i went into dolhpin music and played this (http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/liverpool/print/1/a/section/e/lines/product_id/12388) PRS. I was very taken with it. It's not the best shop around, so i didn't get to play it through the amp i wanted (They have Hughes and Kettners, and i own the budget H&K. Makes sense to me to play it through my own amp), nor did i feel welcome to play it for as long as i wanted. But it seemed solidly built, sounded full and bright when played unplugged, and i can replace any hardware (BKPs!) later on.
I'm a sucker for transparent black finishes. There was an ibanez i liked almost as much, but it had goofy fret inlays (it looked like a heart moniter) and it had a bigger heel, making the top frets harder to reach (both were nothing compared to my squier though).
I wouldn't say i'm a 100% sold on the PRS though. £400 is a weird price range i agree. Not enough to get a pro guitar, way too much for a beginner. I'm still not sure that a new guitar will make me happier than new pickups and a wireless unit.
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What sort of guitar do you really want ?
Tough question. I want a guitar that can (basically) recreate the tone of Lamb of God, maybe a bit less trebley- but with the same attack and clarity. I don't want to be another metal guitarist with an RG style superstrat just because they're "cool" i want something more original. I'd like a guitar that can do "grown up" music too, but i wouldn't consider this a deal breaker. If it does what i do best (which is riff your face off) then that'll be the guitar i want.
The look of the guitar is also very important to me. Although i've been told a billion times to not buy or condemn a guitar based on looks, i've played some very nice monstrousities that i wouldn't be seen dead playing on stage.
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^^ that prs is a nice guitar. I tried the trem version, i liked it. Unfortunately, like a lot of guitars at that price, it didn't (to me anyway) have that final 2% which gives it its mojo. Nothing to criticise at all about its construction, though (although the pickups were poor)- and nothing you could put your finger on. Just a feeling I got.
at a similar price, I thought the Yamaha Pacifica 812 was a nicer guitar, with more mojo- though with two single coils and you wanting to play LOG, a neck 'bucker may be more useful (though I'm guessing the bridge humbucker would be used most of the time). The Yamaha AES guitars are nice too, and quite a bit cheaper (you can get the aes620 for £300)- that's getting closer to "beginner money", so you could maybe justify it a bit better? (or if you're planning on switching the pickups immediately anyway, the 420 would shave even more off the price).
As always, though, you'd need to try them. And the problem with any of those guitars is that BKP's will add around £200 to the cost, bringing them well above "beginner money".
:drink:
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^^ that prs is a nice guitar. I tried the trem version, i liked it. Unfortunately, like a lot of guitars at that price, it didn't (to me anyway) have that final 2% which gives it its mojo. Nothing to criticise at all about its construction, though (although the pickups were poor)- and nothing you could put your finger on. Just a feeling I got.
at a similar price, I thought the Yamaha Pacifica 812 was a nicer guitar, with more mojo- though with two single coils and you wanting to play LOG, a neck 'bucker may be more useful (though I'm guessing the bridge humbucker would be used most of the time). The Yamaha AES guitars are nice too, and quite a bit cheaper (you can get the aes620 for £300)- that's getting closer to "beginner money", so you could maybe justify it a bit better? (or if you're planning on switching the pickups immediately anyway, the 420 would shave even more off the price).
As always, though, you'd need to try them. And the problem with any of those guitars is that BKP's will add around £200 to the cost, bringing them well above "beginner money".
:drink:
Why don't you get a guitar you just like the shape and finish and feel of, I play heavy alternative music and I play normal single coil strats and my brother plays teles, none of them look 'evil' or 'metal' but i could easily pump out evil palm muting riffs with them through our gear. Just get a guitar off ebay and BKP it to get the sound.
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I like the PRS shape and finish, it's both really metal and really not metal.
I think i'll be getting it. Just need to amass the money. My band are starting to sell t-shirts which should be brining in some money (or a loss depending on how well we shift em :P )
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^ yeah, prs are pretty good at making their guitars look pretty good for any style of music...
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yeah. Opeth use PRSs, but so does Santana, so does Paul Allender (Cradle of Filth) and Mike Lewis (lost prophets) so yeah, mixed genre users.
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Anyone know what pickups/amps Opeth use?
Opeth, amazing sounding band. Not exactly a bunch of lookers though.
On the Lamentations DVD they play two sets, one set of slower acousticy songs (he plays a small Vox combo i think) and one "a bit heavier" and i have a vague memory that he might have been playing a fender stack of some sort...
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Laney amps apparently. I think someone told me they use Duncan Full Shred pickups in their guitars.
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They use Laney VH100's for the clean sounds and then Boss GT-8 Multi Effects Processor for distortion.
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Opeth use: Boss GT6 and GT8, Seymour Duncan Full Shred pickups, PRS custom 22 & 24 guitars (and some Gibson and Fender models), and Laney amps: Mikael Akerfeldt uses GH100L's and Peter Lindgren uses VH100R's and GH100L's. Hope this info helps anyone interested.
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I cannot believe the guitarists in opeth are using Multi effects units for distortion, instead of the VH100R distortion, its madness, borderline clinically ill, they should be commited. I have to say, i cant stand PRS guitars, the look nice but sound and feel very sterile to play, as with Suhrs i find. When the quality gets that high, there is no room for individual personality within a guitar.
"Its the imperfections in things that make then unique and beautiful" and that still applies to guitars i believe. Why else would people pay some much to relic instrumets?
Joe
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I cannot believe the guitarists in opeth are using Multi effects units for distortion, instead of the VH100R distortion, its madness, borderline clinically ill, they should be commited. I have to say, i cant stand PRS guitars, the look nice but sound and feel very sterile to play, as with Suhrs i find. When the quality gets that high, there is no room for individual personality within a guitar.
"Its the imperfections in things that make then unique and beautiful" and that still applies to guitars i believe. Why else would people pay some much to relic instrumets?
Joe
i find myself very strangely compelled to agree with yu joe. and another thing - people with PRSs don't play them. You may object, but they don't really play them. People who have paid that much money for a guitar don't dig in; they play it gently and carefully, they polish it before they put it back in its case. I feel that a guitar should not be afraid to get scarred. Of course there are a few exceptions to this rule - mainly of the filthy rich rock star variety, but Suhrs and PRSs just don't age as well as the classics.
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people with PRSs don't play them. You may object, but they don't really play them. People who have paid that much money for a guitar don't dig in; they play it gently and carefully, they polish it before they put it back in its case. I feel that a guitar should not be afraid to get scarred.
Don't worry. This wont be an issue with me. I double checked all the joints and hardware were solid (i'll need to triple check them before buying) as i plan on abusing this guitar.
Battle scars make cool stories.
"This one's from when our singer did a flying rugby tackle off the PA speakers" is my personal favourite.
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Actually older PRS' (1985 - early 1990's) are very good guitars. My PRS is 16 years old and it feels better than most guitars i've played and is far from sterile and already had a few battle scars and i treat it like any other guitar.
However newer PRS' do seem to sound rather bland and feel different in comparison (after playing a new Standard 24)
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Actually older PRS' (1985 - early 1990's) are very good guitars. My PRS is 16 years old and it feels better than most guitars i've played and is far from sterile and already had a few battle scars and i treat it like any other guitar.
However newer PRS' do seem to sound rather bland and feel different in comparison (after playing a new Standard 24)
Good comment, why is it companies go off a bout after 10 years? lol. And I definately prefere a battle scarred guitar to a perfect polish.
Example: My main strat has about 5-6 knocks (including a nasty split in the lacquer near to the bridge but it causes not problems) which are all from my guitar come off my strap when I threw it round mee head. Also, the white pickguard has a good splattering of blood of my right index finger. NICE!
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For greatness in the 400 quid range, it's hard to find a solid argument against second hand. Try the shops after Christmas though...Overstocking leads to big ol' discounts, or if you can wait till May try then, when they'll be slimming stock down for the end of the financial year.
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I'd get a schecter if i had a budget of 400, they come with duncans and they're really well made, I wouldn't get anything else unless I could find a nice second hand guitar.
I'd personally stay away from the PRS SE series, I've not heard many good things about them, and PRS are hardly good value for money. IMO of course.
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^ If they come with £130 worth of Duncans is then surely the rest of the guitar is only the quality of a £250 one? Schecters are OK, but I'm not a big fan of their 6 strings. They look nice and all, but I don't like their necks, I've found the fingerboard edges to be sharp and the guitars to be microphonic. They are not really that great VFM when you compare them to similar offerings from Ibanez, Dean, Ltd,Cort,Yamaha,Washburn etc.
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Whereas if he was after a 7 then I'd have said Schecter. Part of the problem with Schecter though is that they have an exclusive distribution deal with Sound Control, which means that the prices aren't that competitive AND you can't half the models.
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thats fair enough.
I can't believe I forgot about Ibanez, they're a must to check out for good value for money guitars.
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I like the Schecter tempest custom, and blackjack. Good value for money i'd say. But then again i can mad my necks and tweaks little bits and bobs to sort it out. And i dont think i will ever use stock pups again (unless they are BKPs :) )
Joe
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Ok, i had another look at the schecters (I originally discounted them as i'd have to travel to even demo one).
And i really like the telecaster blackjack. Only trouble is, soundcontrol (the only place i can find that even deals with schecters) don't have it in stock...
The tempest one is also cool i guess. I guess there's only so much more online forums can help me.
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Ok, i had another look at the schecters (I originally discounted them as i'd have to travel to even demo one).
And i really like the telecaster blackjack. Only trouble is, soundcontrol (the only place i can find that even deals with schecters) don't have it in stock...
The tempest one is also cool i guess. I guess there's only so much more online forums can help me.
Or you could shell out 380 on a flight to Las Vegas, get a cheapo room somewhere near Sunset Station in the Suberbs and spend like a madman on Pawnshop guitars. There's millions of them!! You could do it all in 48 hours there and be back in time for the 'News' on BBC1 by Teusday! 8)
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I like the Schecter tempest custom, and blackjack. Good value for money i'd say. But then again i can mad my necks and tweaks little bits and bobs to sort it out. And i dont think i will ever use stock pups again (unless they are BKPs :) )
Joe
I played one of these today, ummm, was quite nice, for duncan designed pups through a peavy valve king combo, not too bad. Both pups on was may fav as a SC and P-90 lover. Band points, the painted on binding and purfling was the biggest pile of shitee i have ever seen! it was atrosious. I parts the purlfin on the top was strainght, not following the body shape and the binding got sanded through a bit in parts, aweful. Still, a reasonable guitar for £399