Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: CJ on November 26, 2006, 04:57:27 AM
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Ok so i'm looking for ONE pickup. I have a Gibson Faded V, running straight into a Marshall 3203 Artist with the matching 1965a cab 4x10. I'm about to purchase an Agile Les PAul with P90 pickups. I'll use that for my more moderate rock, so i figured i'd put in some more agressive pickups in my V. I love the neck position bucker in it, so i just want to put a new pickup in the bridge. I was originally planning on getting an EMG 81, but it's too much hassle to mix an active with a passive. So i've heard about Bareknuckles, and i'm looking for an opinion. I want something that will give me a real hardcore sound, kind of slayer like. I want pinch harmonics to jump right out and i want singing highs. I'm not sure if i want too high of an output pickup though, because i run my amp with the gain on 10, so i don't know if it'll just be mud on a higher output pickup.
I'm hoping you can help me out here, because i have no clue what i'm talking about.
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Miracle man.
NEXT!
P.S. Welcome!
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thank you very much for the response. i'll have to wait and hear other peoples opinions though, and see if most people agree on the Miracle Man.
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And fair play to you matey.
Why not listen to some clips?
You know theres a clip room?
Its called 'players'.
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yes i found the clip room. But, i saw how many different pickups there were, got scared, and ran here. I'm hoping i can get maybe 2 or 3 different pickups that you'd recommend, then i'll go check out some clips of those.
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Start with the miracle man :)
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i listened to the stickied clip of the Miracle Man, and it appears to be what i'm looking for. I'd also like to mention that i don't even play much metal, but pinch harmonics make me smile. I guess i've got the Agile with P90's for my moderate rock, so why not go balls out with my V? it is a shred guitar after all.
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Hmmm...less metal pickups with good pinch capability?
I'm a bone-fide metal head so, in general I'm gonna pass. With the suggestion of the rebel yell.
Still, wait for more advice!
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Yeah, if it were possible to get a less metal pickup, with zakk wylde like pinches, that'd obviously be great. I'm not so sure if that is possible though. Now that i think about it, i don't play really any metal at all, more of an 80's metal. Judas Priest, Ozzy, Slash... I really liked the sound of the Riff Raff and the Blackdog, but i love the pinch capability of the Miracle Man.
With the Miracle Man, could i play some not so full out metal stuff, such as crazy train, or some judas priest.
hmm... maybe theres a compromise? or am i being too much of a babbling idiot for you guys to make sense?
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I'm quite certain the BK range can provide a pickup less aggressive than the MM that can squeel like a piglet kicked in the nuts.
I'm not sure what it is though.
Cold sweat, perhaps?
And youre making plenty of sense. I understand youre requirements well, so youre communicating them well. But I'm not sure what to tell you.
Other than:
Miracle man, rebel yell, cold sweat, wait for more comments.
OK, its getting on for 6am here so I'm going to bed (I'm a night person, but not that much!)
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I will just say welcome as I cannot help with humbuckers-most of those making recommendations will have tried various models and I am sure will help.BKP themselves are always glad to advise and as you may have gathered, they have garnered (I never thought I'd ever use that word but I have, so there) a great deal of enthusaistic loyal customers because they have shown, time and time again, a commitment to their customers (any chance of a job in marketing Tim? :wink: )-now where did I put my knitting?
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If you're keeping the Gibson 496R neck pickup and you're happy with it, then I wouldn't worry about picking a bridge pickup with too much output. The 500T you have already is the hottest pickup Gibson makes.
For all-mahogany guitars Tim always recommends either vintage-output pickups or high-output ones. The medium-output pickups can have a tendency to get muddy because the mahogany itself contributes a lot of bass, but the high-output ones can "drive through" the timber (I've read this stuff a lot, because most of my own guitars are mahogany!)
I don't own any of the high-gain models myself, but - from what I've read - I reckon the Warpig would be too dark for what you want, which leaves Miracle Man, Painkiller (and maybe Nailbomb). The MM and PK both have ceramic magnets like your 500T, but they'll sound much more clear and defined than the Gibson. Or, some of the guys on the forum have a Custom Warpig with a ceramic magnet instead of alnico, which gives it more crunch and definition. That may be the real EMG-killer.
And just to confuse things a bit more, although it falls into the medium-output range the Rebel Yell breaks the "rules" and works really well in mahogany, because it's really tight, bright and punchy. I think it's really more of a Big Rock pickup than a Metal one, but others may disagree.
And may I echo Mr 38th and say welcome aboard! :D
Garnered, that's a good word. :wink:
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hmm... is the painkiller called so because it is modelled after the judas priest- painkiller sound? Philly, you said you would recommend either the Vintage or the hot, but how about those 4 pickups listed in the Vintage Hot category? My amp is from the 80's, so i'm thinking a vintage pickup will match with my amp best. So maybe i'm looking for the pinch harmonic response of the miracle man, or an EMG 81, in one of the BK vintage pickups?
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Yep, the Painkiller takes its name from Priest :twisted: . Must admit I don't know much about the tonal qualities of that pickup, it's quite new and I've not listened to many clips or read up on it.
The "Vintage Hot" pickups are medium-output and therefore, in theory, not best-suited to mahogany guitars (which is a shame, because I'd like to try them!). If you (and I) had Les Pauls we'd have a lot more choice, because it seems that maple cap does a lot to balance out the mahogany's bassy qualities.
So basically, you're looking at a choice between Stormy Monday, Mule and Riff Raff at the vintage end of the spectrum and Miracle Man, Painkiller and Warpig at the high-gain end.
As I say, this is all based on what I've read. There are no rules, but Tim knows what he's talking about. It might be worth sending a PM to Tim or Steve (Mr Pig) to see what they recommend.
The threads below have some interesting comments from Tim on pickups for mahogany guitars (specifically SGs) and on a Flying V (a basswood one, but I think the same argument would apply):
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1455&highlight=sg
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6082
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since my amp covers a great classic rock, EVH sound nicely, will a miracle man turn my amp into a modern metal amp, or will i still keep that brown sound with the addition of some extra harmonic response? i really like the tone of my amp, i don't want to change it, i just want much more out of it.
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also, i guess pinch harmonics aren't incredibly important. If i don't play all that much modern metal, would i be better advised to just get a vintage humbucker for more of just a straight up good tone? I don't want to get a tone that i don't like just because i want some killer pinch harmonics. I'm spending a lot of money for this pickup, so maybe theres a better pickup for my needs? Or like i said before, will a miracle man running through my setup just give me a good solid classic rock tone with some extra bite?
Or how are BK's P90 pickups? Maybe i should throw a BK P90 in the LP i'm getting for a nice classic rock Slash-like tone, and then i can throw in a miracle man in my V for when i need it.
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In that case I would suggest mules. They are designed for the cleaner end, with a bit of dirt, and do vintage tones brilliantly, but apparently they can get pretty dirty very well. I'm not certain but I seem to recall Tim (BKP mastermind) using some for his Ozzy cover band: pinches are a must for that, and Tim usin it for that purpose is a hell of an endorsement (he could after all use ANY bare knuckle he wants: he makes them).
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i've tried miracle man, nailbomb and rebel yell in my lp style guitar and as for pinch harmonics, nailbomb nails them all. clean isn't as good as you think though...
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i'll have to definetely check those out. Now, i'm thinking the painkiller would suit me well, if it is after all modelled after the Judas Priest tone. I can get some nice Judas Priest tones as it is, and i think that would suit my style well. Also, since they used pinch harmonics all the time, i figured it'd be nice. Correct me if i'm wrong on this...
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ok well listening to the sound clips, the painkiller just sounds amazing. not to mention it's the sound i want. it also sounded like people were getting some nice P.H.'s out of it. and i could always add more gain! someone discourage me if i'm making a bad decision, or if this will not suit my guitar well. Also, will i have any trouble putting it into my V? can i put my own pickup cover on it? and i'm in the US, and all the US dealers are selling BK pickups for $160, where i've seen some in the UK around $110. Would i be better advised just to buy straight from a UK dealer? and what is the cheapest place to buy from?
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I think it'll suit your guitar fine, I was reading today that Tim had the Painkillers in his Feline Explorer at Music Live , so if they work in an Explorer they'll work in a V.
You shouldn't have any trouble installing it in your V, but I wouldn't recommend fitting your own cover because (a) the polepiece spacing may not match and (b) it won't be wax-potted, so it may squeal. If you buy an uncovered pickup and decide you want it covered, BKP will fit it for free and only charge the cost of the cover itself (although I guess you'd have to pay for shipping here and back again).
I don't know about cheapest, but the best place to buy is direct from Bare Knuckle!
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hmm... well i've already got nickel covers on mine, can i get the painkiller with a nickel cover or can i only get that aged nickel? also, i'm on a really tight budget, i shouldn't even be looking at bareknuckles. but i know that you have to pay for quality. so i'm kind of looking for the cheapest price on these.
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You can definitely get the PK with a polished nickel cover (or raw nickel, or aged nickel).
Sorry can't help on the pricing.
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Remember that from the US you do not pay the 17.5% sales tax (called VAT in the UK).
Rob...
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are the painkillers new? i actually have yet to find them on any other site...
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They've been fianalised long enough for quite a few people (on this forum pretty exclusively as far as I know) to have them now, but they've only very recently been officially released.
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ok well i went through the checkout process, didn't actually buy them, but i just wanted to find out how much they'd come out to. They came out to only $110 Us dollars (shipped!) as opposed to all the US dealers selling them for around $160 shipped. so i guess i'll get them straight from the manufacturer.
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oh and i'm guessing i want 4 conductor wiring? And i'm not sure if i want 50mm or 53mm? it says gibson sometimes uses 53mm for the Vee's...i couldn't find anything on gibson's website.
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oh and i'm guessing i want 4 conductor wiring? And i'm not sure if i want 50mm or 53mm? it says gibson sometimes uses 53mm for the Vee's...i couldn't find anything on gibson's website.
Safest way is to measure the string spacing on YOUR guitar - get a ruler, measure from top E to bottom E over the bridge pickup. Choose the spacing that's most likely to line up on yours.
Have a look at my Flying V & Les Pauls on page 1 of the pics (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5209&start=0) thread - the FV has a 53mm spaced MM, the two Les Pauls have 50mm spaced bridge pickups.
You only need 4 conductor if you plan to have coil splitting (though you don't have to wire it in if you do). Your Gibson probably has 2 conductor. In other words, if you don't plan to have coil splitting you can choose either 2 or 4... :)
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then should i just get the 4 in case i do want to split the coils for some reason? or since i probably won't i guess i should just get the 2. and am i measuring string to string? or one end of the pickup to the other?
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Measure string to string, directly above the bridge pickup's polepieces.
And FWIW I'd suggest 4-conductor cable, that way you keep your options open for the future. And it's a bit easier to install too.
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ok string to string is 50mm. Now, i've heard that pickup covers do actually make a slight difference, according to Tim i think. Would it be a good combination to put a pickup cover on the painkiller or should i just leave it open? I'd rather get the double white open pickup, but if it will sound better with a cover, burnt chrome is always nice.
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Sounds like you should definitely go with 50mm spacing then. As for covers, here's a quote from Tim:
"Covers effect the tone slightly, they roll in the highs and warm up the bass, kind of instant vintage vibe so players who remove a cover often comment on how much more 'air' or presence they can hear... I can compensate in the wind for this."
So for a bit more presence/brightness, go open. Personally I like covers, but just for the look and the fact they protect the pickups, I'm not bothered about the effect on the tone one way or the other - BKPs never seem to lack presence anyway. It may be shallow, but I'd say go for whatever you think'll look best. :D
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yeah i figured the difference would be so slight that i should just go with what looks better. I'm pretty sure i'm going to go double white. With my white pickguard and the all white tone and volume knobs that i put on i think the white pickup would look cool.
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ok just as i was about to purchase a painkiller for my V, my dad suggested that i buy a gibson les paul, and he'd split it with me. I have found a 1981? Gibson xr-I LP that i am most likely going to purchase. Can i put in regular humbuckers in there? it has a coil tap, so i'm not sure if you need special pickups for that? Also, would i be more advised to get new pickups in the V or the LP? Which guitar do you guys think has better stock pickups?
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I have found a 1981? Gibson xr-I LP that i am most likely going to purchase. Can i put in regular humbuckers in there?
Yep.
it has a coil tap, so i'm not sure if you need special pickups for that?
Nope. Any pickup can be built coil tapped, or you can fit non-coil tapped if you want.
Also, would i be more advised to get new pickups in the V or the LP?
Entirely up to you. You might want to see how the LP sounds as standard before deciding to change the pickups though!
Which guitar do you guys think has better stock pickups?
Not a clue. I don't like the 496/498/500 Gibson pickups so I would probably say the LP would have better pickups. None will be as good as BKPs though ;)
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I have found a 1981? Gibson xr-I LP that i am most likely going to purchase. Can i put in regular humbuckers in there? it has a coil tap, so i'm not sure if you need special pickups for that? Also, would i be more advised to get new pickups in the V or the LP? Which guitar do you guys think has better stock pickups?
If the XR-1 still has its original pickups (hope it does!) they'll be Dirty Fingers, which are very powerful ceramic humbuckers with about the same output as the 500T in your V. I don't know if they'll sound better than the V or not, but if the LP has the original pickups after 25 years then personally I'd want to leave them where they are!
If you do decide to replace the pickups on the XR-1, just order 4-conductor cable so you can still use the coil-tap (it's probably really a coil-split) switch.
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yeah he said he hasn't yet replaced anything on it. i'm planning on purchasing it tonight, but he's in california and i'm in pennsylvania. hopefully i can get it by next week and try it out. and yes, that guitar is supposed to come with very high output dirty fingers.
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am i correct in guessing that the painkiller would play all 80's metal well? Randy rhoads, iron maiden, some metallica, and maybe some van halen? or is there a different pickup i would think about?
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I recon the Emerald, Miracle Man and even the Mule would suit you down to the bone! for the humbucker guitar. As for the P90's I actually have a BKP90 and it's absolutley amazing, it's so warm! I like it so much, it's much fatter and warmer than a single coil, the stock ones were'nt very good, the BKP91 and 92's are not as pure sounding as the 90 is. Most of all ask Tim himself and he'll give the best advice, he recommended the Mule and BKP90 for my guitar and they are PERFECT, it's the exact tone I've had in my head for years.
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actually i don't care about P90's anymore. I was going to get the Agile AL-3000 with P90's, but instead i ended up buying the Gibson xr-1.
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i posted some clips in the time out section. i would think they would help you see what i'm looking for.
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or just go to soundclick.com/madeinusa
check out the clip thats called untitled.
let me know if you think painkillers would suit that sound best after all, or if i should go with something else.