Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: rewt_ on November 30, 2006, 03:01:41 PM
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Every clip I hear of BKPs sounds super-clean, almost to the point that I don't like it. Is it just me? Nobody wants a muddy pickup but I feel like they lack some of the dirty mush that makes a great distorted guitar tone. I'm not talking about tight, fast metal; I think they nail that pretty decently. But I guess I'm just wondering how they sound in person. Do they have any more dirt and grind than I hear in most of the clips? I'm going to order a set to try out, but I'm curious to know if I'm just hearing things or if the particular recordings on the forum just have the cheap digital thing going on or what. Thanks.
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They are clearer and more defined than other pickups, but they are more complex too. So you can almost say more complex audible information than provided by other pickups is made audible in a more transparent and clear way.
That means you will hear details of your playing, even if you have tons of gain and sustain, which is nothing else than perfect.
I think it's always easy to muddy up a sound, much more than to make it crisp if it isn't in its substance.
Maybe the reason why you hear clear clips here is that these are rather mature players that spend this kind of money on pickups and bother sharing their results. Think about band and complex mix context rather than playing alone, that's where a transparent and detailed pickup really shines.
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I agree with just about all of that. I'm a rather mature player myself, though, and I have had experience with some great gear. I have many, many mixing hours under my belt and I'm fairly conscious of the way sounds sit in a mix. To relate my question to recording, think of Pro Tools versus a machine running GP9. I guess I'm kind of asking, in your collective experience, the pickups are more on the Pro Tools side of of things: much clearer, but kind of missing that rocking, hard-hitting thing.
From your response, it seems like they're not, and that's great. That's what I want to hear. I'd appreciate anyone else who'd like to chime in. :)
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Most players that post clips take alot of effort to present good quality clips. Some use digital stuff that usually sounds a bit clean and sterile. Some mic up a tube amp and record through a desk. Most tube amp clips don't have the amplifier cranked to stage volumes so there's less dirt in these clips.
The clarity of the BKP's are one of the reasons these pickups are so great.
Some members here have a Epi Valve Junior (like myself) and we're pretty much all modding the thing untill it sounds the way we want it. It shouldn't be long before we can expect some clips of BKP equipped guitars running through this little gritty 5 watt amp.
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I agree with just about all of that. I'm a rather mature player myself, though, and I have had experience with some great gear. I have many, many mixing hours under my belt and I'm fairly conscious of the way sounds sit in a mix. To relate my question to recording, think of Pro Tools versus a machine running GP9. I guess I'm kind of asking, in your collective experience, the pickups are more on the Pro Tools side of of things: much clearer, but kind of missing that rocking, hard-hitting thing.
From your response, it seems like they're not, and that's great. That's what I want to hear. I'd appreciate anyone else who'd like to chime in. :)
I think part of the answer is in your post as well. Most of us are using some sort of computer software ( my clips are PT LE with Mbox) and that obviously has a huge affect on the sound of the clips. Not to mention compressing the cr@p out of them to make mp3s. If you were to record on a nice tape machine with some U87s or Royer 121s and some nice tube preamps I think you'd have all that rockin' warmth plus the definition and clarity that the BKPs are known for 8)
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My Crawlers are able to go from super-clean through super-dirty (both with great note definition) depending upon my mood/taste at the moment. Never any type of mush problem.
cjpm
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When I have done clips, I have deliberately kept it clean so that the core tone(hopefully) can be heard rather than drenching it in distortion whether "real" or "Digital". I think that most people have thought about the circumstances that the pickup would be playing in.
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They are phenominally clear under extreme gain. For me thats a huge plus. You can hear every note and nuance
Hard rocking, hard hitting? Extremely so. Most of the guys here have switched from a big brand to BK, and most of the guys here go for rock to metal tones (not to say that BK dont cater for all else: thats just the majority of guitarists).
I switched from being an EMG man to BK. So hard hitting? Extremely so.
Think of it this way: BKs give you the hard-rocking edge with clarity and depth. You get both.
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sometimes a bit of muddiness is great, and BKP's don't offer that..
I totally catch your drift, i sometimes love the sound of DiMarzio's for that slightly fluffy tone thats great for shreddy stuff, and i love the stock ibanez pickups in my Artcore because they're slightly muddy and thats what i like in a jazz neck pickup..
but for my strat i love the VH2, and Irish Tours the clarity is amazing and it's just fantastic for that twang, bang and crunch!!
I was trying out bkp loaded organic guitars into wkz amps tonight and the clarity was well, too much!! just sometimes a little muffled tone is lovely.. hence why people like tube screamers with that big warm midrange etc.
it's all apples and pears, different things do different jobs and it's totally up to you what, ya think.. I mean i really like the Seymour Duncan Custom Custom, DiMarzio PAF Pro and Air Norton.. so yea like i said..
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Though if youre after mud, like, you actively seek a muddy tone, BKs wont do it.
'Hard hitting, hard rocking' or 'muddy'....or 'thick'? I can see how you could try to commicate being after a thick tone and people recieve 'muddy'. They are often and very thick. You should hear a warpig!
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http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=469&highlight=suicide
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http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2264&highlight=merry
Ammusing to say the least
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My recordings certainly have the "cheap digital thing" going on ;) but I think the amount of "mud" (depending on what one means by that) can always be controlled via twiddling and augmenting one's gain/overdrive/fuzz/etc. and the EQ thereof. I bet I could muddy up my cheap digital amp sims a treat without too much work. :) After all, you can always add mud, but it's tough to add clarity!
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Hey MDV, thanks for reviving my old Warpig clip. I still like that one.
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Though if youre after mud, like, you actively seek a muddy tone, BKs wont do it.
For mud, try a Tone Zone in an SG. Horrible, horrible tone. :(
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Thanks, all, for the replies so far.
sometimes a bit of muddiness is great, and BKP's don't offer that..
I think you get what I'm asking.
Forgive me, everyone else, if the music adjectives are getting in the way as usual. I think what I was asking was really where they fall on the whole "clean vs. colored" scale. Like, the type of stuff an amp sim won't do. It's a differnt thing from "distorted vs. not."
I don't know about the bulk of you guys, but if you've tried out a lot of high-end equipment, I would imagine you've come across more than one piece that's perfectly clear/defined/etc. and perfectly boring. Lots and lots and lots of boutique gear sounds really "good" but ends up being soulless and uninspiring when you sit down to make music with it. I'm just trying to avoid that.
Whatever, like I said, I'll order a pair. I'll report back. I get that your satisfied with them, and that's as encouraging as it can get, I guess. Thanks again. =)
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I haven't tried a lot of high-end boutique gear, so I can't say much about that!
But I can say that my guitar sounds -- to me, anyway -- a lot more lively with the BKPs than it did with its original stock Gibson pups, and I like my guitar with the BKPs better than other guitars I tried with SD pups. :)
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One thing's for sure. BKP's aren't soulless.
My old Yamaha SG was a guitar with alot of history. There was so much soul and caracter hidden in that guitar. With the BKP's all that soul and caracter finally showed.
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One thing's for sure. BKP's aren't soulless.
My old Yamaha SG was a guitar with alot of history. There was so much soul and caracter hidden in that guitar. With the BKP's all that soul and caracter finally showed.
+1 :evil: :evil:
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Going back to the original question...........it depends on the model and type of pickup.For a gritty and gutsy tone-humbuckers Riff Raff, Black Dog, Emerald and Mississippi Queen(humbucker size)all grind really well-never at the expense of clarity though.Single coils- Mother's Milk, Irish Tour and Slow Hand will get down and dirty likewise Brown Sugar Teles.
They're all made with vintage wire and parts so will definately mimic any vintage tone in the grit 'n' grind dept whilst the scatterwinding helps retain definition through the frequencies.I would never attempt to wind a characterless or bland sounding pickup.