Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: octavio_amzer on December 01, 2006, 09:13:42 PM
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man!! am I having trouble with the bridge pickup with my rhoads :?
It looks like my Miracle Man is fine... but it sometimes to "Mushy" for single notes and intricate riffs and tight playing...
it seems like if the miracle man was a perfect "powercord" and chug pickup but not all I do is power cords and chug :? ...
maybe something more dynamic and more controlled and tight in the bridge is the answer? must need more control and tightness and note definition for my riffs!!
I love the CLEAR punchy feel I get with my Cold Sweat in the neck... but it sounds silly for high gain riffing.
any suggestions? looking forward to Nailbomb and Painkiller...
But I'm afraid that maybe the Nailbomb is to THIN in an alder guitar... but I'm not sure... maybe change is good.
some help guys please :)
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I'd say Painkiller definatley, tighter than any of the other pickups, definatley more articulation than the Miracle Man, Miracle Man is just for all our power.
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Nailbomb is anything BUT thin, it has huge mids with emphasis on the upper mid range with balanced bass and treble. It's very thick and full (especially in my Les Paul) and I suspect it wouldn't sound that much different in an Alder RR1; the Nailbomb would be a little more "open" and organic than the Miracle Man due the Alnico V instead of the Ceramic but if you're looking for something with tighter bass than the Mircale Man I'd also check out a Ceramic Warpig.
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is the painkiller effective for wierd chord phrasing progressions in high gain mode kind of Opethish in a way? note definition and tight is a MUST :)
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Nailbomb is anything BUT thin, it has huge mids with emphasis on the upper mid range with balanced bass and treble. It's very thick and full (especially in my Les Paul) and I suspect it wouldn't sound that much different in an Alder RR1; the Nailbomb would be a little more "open" and organic than the Miracle Man due the Alnico V instead of the Ceramic but if you're looking for something with tighter bass than the Mircale Man I'd also check out a Ceramic Warpig.
but the problem is... TOO MUCH POWER lol
very very high output pickups tend to turn to mushy muddy tone and if I get a ceramic warpig then I'd be much more unpleased because it would sound like a super miracle man.
I'm really considering a Piankiller or the Nailbomb... but the Painkiller may sound tighter.
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Nailbomb is not as tight as Painkiller, but it has more articulation and is not all about power.
It's a tough choice, but for the Opeth like chords in high gain situations and articulation i would go with Nailbomb, for the tightness Painkiller
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this is a very tough choice!!
I like all the articulation and scream the Nailbomb has and the "not all about power" thing...
but the Painkiller "tightness" is tempting...
more opinions on this?
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OK... just one note ahahahahah
Nailbomb is $%&#ING Tight. i thought it was flabby or something like that. but i just amazed on how the pickup surpassed my expectations.
it has bass enough, TIGHTNESS enough, and excellent mids.
Good Harmonics, and Very good Middles.
i wish it had an overal darker sound. but itīs FAR than Excellent.
iīll keep this one and get MORE bkps. definitelly.
Its the devilīs Pickups.
JP
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OK... just one note ahahahahah
Nailbomb is #$%!& Tight. i thought it was flabby or something like that. but i just amazed on how the pickup surpassed my expectations.
it has bass enough, TIGHTNESS enough, and excellent mids.
Good Harmonics, and Very good Middles.
i wish it had an overal darker sound. but itīs FAR than Excellent.
iīll keep this one and get MORE bkps. definitelly.
Its the devilīs Pickups.
JP
it won't sound too bright on alder???
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OK... just one note ahahahahah
Nailbomb is #$%!& Tight. i thought it was flabby or something like that. but i just amazed on how the pickup surpassed my expectations.
it has bass enough, TIGHTNESS enough, and excellent mids.
Good Harmonics, and Very good Middles.
i wish it had an overal darker sound. but itīs FAR than Excellent.
iīll keep this one and get MORE bkps. definitelly.
Its the devilīs Pickups.
JP
it won't sound too bright on alder???
Looking at Full Distortion's list of guitar brands most of those are alder bodied guitars, so maybe his Nailbomb isn't as dark since it's already in an alder bodied guitar? I don't know, I've heard plenty of nailbomb clips in many different wooded guitars and none of them have sounded too bright at all. Opeth you'd defintely want Nailbomb, Painkiller is more for gay English Leather Biker Rock :P
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OK... just one note ahahahahah
Nailbomb is #$%!& Tight. i thought it was flabby or something like that. but i just amazed on how the pickup surpassed my expectations.
it has bass enough, TIGHTNESS enough, and excellent mids.
Good Harmonics, and Very good Middles.
i wish it had an overal darker sound. but itīs FAR than Excellent.
iīll keep this one and get MORE bkps. definitelly.
Its the devilīs Pickups.
JP
it won't sound too bright on alder???
Looking at Full Distortion's list of guitar brands most of those are alder bodied guitars, so maybe his Nailbomb isn't as dark since it's already in an alder bodied guitar? I don't know, I've heard plenty of nailbomb clips in many different wooded guitars and none of them have sounded too bright at all. Opeth you'd defintely want Nailbomb, Painkiller is more for gay English Leather Biker Rock :P
who happens to be one of the greatest metal bands with one of the greatest tones of all time....
if you're talking about Priest that is....
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mmmm.... does it really sound "british" and gay :( ?...
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i hope you're kidding.
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i hope you're kidding.
I also hope so... :? lol
any nice bridge painkiller metal clips in action?
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OK... just one note ahahahahah
Nailbomb is #$%!& Tight. i thought it was flabby or something like that. but i just amazed on how the pickup surpassed my expectations.
it has bass enough, TIGHTNESS enough, and excellent mids.
Good Harmonics, and Very good Middles.
i wish it had an overal darker sound. but itīs FAR than Excellent.
iīll keep this one and get MORE bkps. definitelly.
Its the devilīs Pickups.
JP
it won't sound too bright on alder???
Hi, i had a Nailbomb in my alder bodied strat and it enhanced the bottom end and sounded full and very musical.
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OK... just one note ahahahahah
Nailbomb is #$%!& Tight. i thought it was flabby or something like that. but i just amazed on how the pickup surpassed my expectations.
it has bass enough, TIGHTNESS enough, and excellent mids.
Good Harmonics, and Very good Middles.
i wish it had an overal darker sound. but itīs FAR than Excellent.
iīll keep this one and get MORE bkps. definitelly.
Its the devilīs Pickups.
JP
it won't sound too bright on alder???
Looking at Full Distortion's list of guitar brands most of those are alder bodied guitars, so maybe his Nailbomb isn't as dark since it's already in an alder bodied guitar? I don't know, I've heard plenty of nailbomb clips in many different wooded guitars and none of them have sounded too bright at all. Opeth you'd defintely want Nailbomb, Painkiller is more for gay English Leather Biker Rock :P
I think i have found my perfect pickup - i was thinking of a black dog or mule but gay English Leather Biker Rock fits my style perfectly!!!
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It looks like my Miracle Man is fine... but it sometimes to "Mushy" for single notes and intricate riffs and tight playing...
Miracle Man sounds mushy??? Have you checked your amp settings and pickup height? Based on the Miracle Man clips on this board the MM is as tight as a nut.
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mmmm.... does it really sound "british" and gay :( ?...
Well it definitely sounds British, but only fairly gay IMHO. Gayer than a Warpig, but not as gay as a Dimebucker or ....
Maybe that's something Tim and the boys could consider including in the specs on the website update - DC resistance, bass, lower mids, upper mids, treble and gayness.
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"I just lurve my Warpig... Squeal little piggie.. squeal....
(http://www.gaydar.co.uk/images/homepage/home2.jpg)
"hey is that a Nailbomb in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?"
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It looks like my Miracle Man is fine... but it sometimes to "Mushy" for single notes and intricate riffs and tight playing...
Miracle Man sounds mushy??? Have you checked your amp settings and pickup height? Based on the Miracle Man clips on this board the MM is as tight as a nut.
why should I blame my amp settings for how a miracle man sounds? (I've also checked height and it only increased bass and output)
I never said a miracle man sounds bad and never said it wasn't tight. I liked it alot! but it isn't helping me out in my recent playing.
I mean tightER and LESS mushy for single notes and much more articulate and punchy for my needs and songwriting I described.
but this is a wierd choice because th Nailbomb is alnico V pickup and the painkiller is a ceramic...
more opinions based on my needs please...
don't need opinions saying that a painkiller is "gay" if thats not true :?
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if you want to know if the painkiller is good for metal go listen to the song Painkiller. The pickup is modelled after that sound, and they sure get a good metal tone.
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if you want to know if the painkiller is good for metal go listen to the song Painkiller. The pickup is modelled after that sound, and they sure get a good metal tone.
if the Painkiller sounds as kick ass as the main riff intro in that song... then it is HEAVY AS $%&# :D
It sounds like a tight bass response and with a very nice mid punch and controlled highs.
I guess the problem is no heavy metal clips for the painkillers :(
also all the site is lacking info on the painkiller... maybe there should be more info and clips of it?
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(http://www.tickleberry.co.uk/pages/butt/nglde2.jpg)
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It looks like my Miracle Man is fine... but it sometimes to "Mushy" for single notes and intricate riffs and tight playing...
it seems like if the miracle man was a perfect "powercord" and chug pickup but not all I do is power cords and chug :? ...
:o :o :o :o :o
Thats all the things a miracle man isnt!
Its FOR tight single note and precise lead lines.
http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=172
Seems pretty defined to me...
And to prove it to myself at least I have 2 of them and 3 amps to play them through to eliminate that as a variable...and yes, its tight in all of them and ultra-clear in all but the TSL (mushy amp).
Something else must be going on here :? . Try playing it through another setup
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but the problem is... TOO MUCH POWER lol
very very high output pickups tend to turn to mushy muddy tone and if I get a ceramic warpig then I'd be much more unpleased because it would sound like a super miracle man.
I never said a miracle man sounds bad and never said it wasn't tight. I liked it alot! but it isn't helping me out in my recent playing.
I mean tightER and LESS mushy for single notes and much more articulate and punchy for my needs and songwriting I described.
I don't know anything about the Miracle Man and how mushy it is or isn't, but maybe you should be considering something other than just the high-output metal pickups? Rebel Yell maybe?
:?:
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I don't get you guys...
ok... let me put this in a more BKP fanboy forum way.
WOWWW THE MIRACLE MAN KIKS ASSS!!!! CLEAR PERFECT WOWWW!!!
"but" I want something different...
:roll:
how can I say I want a different pickup with other specs and voicing without offending a miracle man owner that will give me a sermon on how I should use ---MY--- equipment properly?
I'm damn sure no BKP sounds muchy, bad and etc.... but it is just a comparison thing between a miracle man and a very large missguided "hit or miss" selection of pickups.
I'm also damn sure the Miracle Man is NOT the end all be all metal pickup, that's why there are other pickups like "warpig, nailbomb, Painkiller, etc..."
I said I'm in love with the cold sweat but need another different pickup than a miracle man in the bridge. That's all :? Not because it is very favored here I MUST like it! that's very inmature of you guys and it pisses me off because I'm being honest with the miracle man not being my cup of tea.
so I decided to try out the Painkiller and just wanted more info on it because the whole site lacks Painkiller info. (Searched ALOT and no useful info).
rant off/ :cry:
(no need for someone to get offened by my post) :oops:
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How about a Cold Sweat bridge pickup if you like the neck version?
I've never played it, but it seems logical to me.
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I don't get you guys...
ok... let me put this in a more BKP fanboy forum way.
WOWWW THE MIRACLE MAN KIKS ASSS!!!! CLEAR PERFECT WOWWW!!!
"but" I want something different...
:roll:
how can I say I want a different pickup with other specs and voicing without offending a miracle man owner that will give me a sermon on how I should use ---MY--- equipment properly?
I'm damn sure no BKP sounds muchy, bad and etc.... but it is just a comparison thing between a miracle man and a very large missguided "hit or miss" selection of pickups.
I'm also damn sure the Miracle Man is NOT the end all be all metal pickup, that's why there are other pickups like "warpig, nailbomb, Painkiller, etc..."
I said I'm in love with the cold sweat but need another different pickup than a miracle man in the bridge. That's all :? Not because it is very favored here I MUST like it! that's very inmature of you guys and it pisses me off because I'm being honest with the miracle man not being my cup of tea.
so I decided to try out the Painkiller and just wanted more info on it because the whole site lacks Painkiller info. (Searched ALOT and no useful info).
rant off/ :cry:
(no need for someone to get offened by my post) :oops:
Hey man, I trust that you trust your ears.
And I went through 2 miracle men before I got the one that was right for me (it has a great character for my playing, clear and well defined, but A: I wanted more bass for the trebly guitar it was in....double screw pole...THEN I decided it needed more gain....23k version).
I was just trying to point you in the direction of looking at other aspects of your sound. Its possible for teh MM to sound mushy in a mushy amp, for example. Its quite scooped with a lot of low mids, so if you play scooped, or you have an amp that is strong in those ranges (like my TSL) then it may lose clarity.
From your description of what you want and my experience of the MM I think it would be a great pickuip for you, but it sounds like something else is happening because its definately not a mushy pickup, and has superb clarity and definition in single note lines.
What are you playing it through?
P.S. For a simliar level of clarity its reliably touted around here that the painkiller is up to the job, and it has a very different voicing that may work for you. I cant veryify that personally, as I dont have one. I can tell you that the ceramic warpig is nigh on as tight as a miracle man and has a middier sound that could be what you're looking for.
P.P.S. Your post did come off as attacking: if its not your intention to offend, you may want to think about liberal use of capitals and blunt phrasings of generalisations about the members of this board (who are very friendly and always helpfull).
The amount of experience of BKs (and other pickups: no one goes straight for BKs; we all got here via all the other big brands) that everyone here has far outweighs yours or mine, and where you see a consensus about a pickup (eg its got a very defined tone) its right.
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I don't get you guys...
ok... let me put this in a more BKP fanboy forum way.
WOWWW THE MIRACLE MAN KIKS ASSS!!!! CLEAR PERFECT WOWWW!!!
"but" I want something different...
:roll:
how can I say I want a different pickup with other specs and voicing without offending a miracle man owner that will give me a sermon on how I should use ---MY--- equipment properly?
I'm damn sure no BKP sounds muchy, bad and etc.... but it is just a comparison thing between a miracle man and a very large missguided "hit or miss" selection of pickups.
I'm also damn sure the Miracle Man is NOT the end all be all metal pickup, that's why there are other pickups like "warpig, nailbomb, Painkiller, etc..."
I said I'm in love with the cold sweat but need another different pickup than a miracle man in the bridge. That's all :? Not because it is very favored here I MUST like it! that's very inmature of you guys and it pisses me off because I'm being honest with the miracle man not being my cup of tea.
so I decided to try out the Painkiller and just wanted more info on it because the whole site lacks Painkiller info. (Searched ALOT and no useful info).
rant off/ :cry:
(no need for someone to get offened by my post) :oops:
Hey man, I trust that you trust your ears.
And I went through 2 miracle men before I got the one that was right for me (it has a great character for my playing, clear and well defined, but A: I wanted more bass for the trebly guitar it was in....double screw pole...THEN I decided it needed more gain....23k version).
I was just trying to point you in the direction of looking at other aspects of your sound. Its possible for teh MM to sound mushy in a mushy amp, for example. Its quite scooped with a lot of low mids, so if you play scooped, or you have an amp that is strong in those ranges (like my TSL) then it may lose clarity.
From your description of what you want and my experience of the MM I think it would be a great pickuip for you, but it sounds like something else is happening because its definately not a mushy pickup, and has superb clarity and definition in single note lines.
What are you playing it through?
P.S. For a simliar level of clarity its reliably touted around here that the painkiller is up to the job, and it has a very different voicing that may work for you. I cant veryify that personally, as I dont have one. I can tell you that the ceramic warpig is nigh on as tight as a miracle man and has a middier sound that could be what you're looking for.
P.P.S. Your post did come off as attacking: if its not your intention to offend, you may want to think about liberal use of capitals and blunt phrasings of generalisations about the members of this board (who are very friendly and always helpfull).
The amount of experience of BKs (and other pickups: no one goes straight for BKs; we all got here via all the other big brands) that everyone here has far outweighs yours or mine, and where you see a consensus about a pickup (eg its got a very defined tone) its right.
thankyou for understanding and pointing also that my post came out as attacking. I'm sorry if someone got offended by it but I'm sure I make my point quite clear. but I apologize because you are very friendly helpful guys.
the thing is I use a mesa mark IIC+ and mark IVs and they are generally very defined and focused amps in sound and not modern buzzy sounding. They are also bright amps and the gain relies alot with the treble knob and VERY MID heavy amps and bass settings must be placed very very low and enhanced and pumped up with the graphic EQ to make it thumpy and nice...
It seems like my Miracle Man fights with my setup and it doesn't complement it. Also consider the randy rhoads alder with maple neck so it is a mid-highs kind of thing...
so I naturally thought... DUH I need a Miracle man to "balance" with my setup. But I was wrong because the miracle man sounds "loose" in my setup and thats kind of strange... then I raised the height and it raised output and increased bass but made it sound mushy and I lowered it and it was more defined but lacking balls...
standard 6 string tuning----
I experimented with high gain metal:
chugs= nice and heavy with balls but could be tighter
harmonic pinches= very very good
shredding= attacking and nice but trebly and a bit messy
mellow work= sounds just too damn metal for this lol
power cords = THE BEST... really...
complicated cords with high gain= could have more clarity...
single notes= buzzy and trebly
(again... I repeat... in my setup)
so as you can see it works... but NOT fully. I'm sure it has worked out with alot of you guys but not really for me.
So maybe a bit less output, a tighter bass and more pronounced mids can complement well with my setup... that's my theory. What do you think could mold out better with my setup?
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Thats more helpfull for us trying to help you, thanks.
First off, I never found mesas of any sort that I've tried to be particularly tight. MkIvs are about the best for it, but still its not a defining characteristic of any of their 198450918475081 tones.
Then theres the EQ thing. Bassy, middy amp + Bassy, low middy pickup = bass and mid overload, so its possibly working against you.
What pickup did you change to miracle man from?
Anyway, so far my suggestions are these:
1: Use thicker strings. Always great for tightening things up, and a cheap experiment, and cheap solution if it works.
2: try an EQ in line with the guitar and amp. A bit more expensive, but they tend to be one of those things you eiter rely on all the time, or dont use most of the time and every now and then they're invaluable. Great investment however you cut it.
3: Get to a guitar shop with the pretense of buying an amp or to a mates house that you know has a quite different, but still similar enough amp and try the guitar through that...though I doubt you'll be buying a new amp unless this experiment reveals to you a flaw in your amps tone (its not particularly to my taste because I like the tighter, more open end of the metal spectrum (I use an engl screamer as my main amp, for the time being), but it'll let you figure out what the pickup sounds like outside your setup, if you see what I mean, and at the very least that can help you understand what you want to be different more clearly)
4: try a rebel yell, crawler, cold sweat or nailbomb. All have lower output than a miracle man and very different voicings, but I havent tried any, so I cant advise you any further on that: if you've heard the clips and spent some time on or searched the boards you know as much as me about those.
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Thats more helpfull for us trying to help you, thanks.
First off, I never found mesas of any sort that I've tried to be particularly tight. MkIvs are about the best for it, but still its not a defining characteristic of any of their 198450918475081 tones.
Then theres the EQ thing. Bassy, middy amp + Bassy, low middy pickup = bass and mid overload, so its possibly working against you.
What pickup did you change to miracle man from?
Anyway, so far my suggestions are these:
1: Use thicker strings. Always great for tightening things up, and a cheap experiment, and cheap solution if it works.
2: try an EQ in line with the guitar and amp. A bit more expensive, but they tend to be one of those things you eiter rely on all the time, or dont use most of the time and every now and then they're invaluable. Great investment however you cut it.
3: Get to a guitar shop with the pretense of buying an amp or to a mates house that you know has a quite different, but still similar enough amp and try the guitar through that...though I doubt you'll be buying a new amp unless this experiment reveals to you a flaw in your amps tone (its not particularly to my taste because I like the tighter, more open end of the metal spectrum (I use an engl screamer as my main amp, for the time being), but it'll let you figure out what the pickup sounds like outside your setup, if you see what I mean, and at the very least that can help you understand what you want to be different more clearly)
4: try a rebel yell, crawler, cold sweat or nailbomb. All have lower output than a miracle man and very different voicings, but I havent tried any, so I cant advise you any further on that: if you've heard the clips and spent some time on or searched the boards you know as much as me about those.
thankyou for your reply :)
ok... now I think I'm getting closer to my answer.
the other bridge pickups I've used really don't matter, the Miracle Man is the best bridge pickup I have used! but as I say... I want the best for my needs 8).
1) yes and yes... I was thinking about the strings also... I use 9-42 and maybe I could use a little bit of a thicker gauge (not getting to 10)... something like a 9-42+ if you know what I mean.
2) what if instead of an EQ I could use a pedal to tighten it up? I think using EQs in mark amps is overkill considering you already are using an EQ onboard the amp... but I shall consider it.
3) the thing is I love my amps and guitars and they are "my sound" and I won't change it just because of a bridge pickup =P
4) nailbomb sounds nice and I'm also thinking of Painkiller. Anything lower wouldn't give me enough power in my playing...
:D
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Ok, then. Thats boils down to a resounding 'string change' from where I'm sitting.
Its the easiest thing to do, financially and practically. You're going to anyway, after all! may I at least recommend, whole heartedly no less, that you try 10s in E? I never once got a satisfactorily tight sound out of anything less in E: 10s are the lightest guage I use, an I use them exclusively in E. I often use 10-52 in E, and it goes up from there as I detune accross my guitars to 13-70 for B standard.
Tell me if this is telling gran to suck eggs, but of all the things you can change on your guitar if you take a difference/cost relationship then strings are THE best thing to change first, guage and brand. Massive difference, negligable cost. Win.
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Ok, then. Thats boils down to a resounding 'string change' from where I'm sitting.
Its the easiest thing to do, financially and practically. You're going to anyway, after all! may I at least recommend, whole heartedly no less, that you try 10s in E? I never once got a satisfactorily tight sound out of anything less in E: 10s are the lightest guage I use, an I use them exclusively in E. I often use 10-52 in E, and it goes up from there as I detune accross my guitars to 13-70 for B standard.
Tell me if this is telling gran to suck eggs, but of all the things you can change on your guitar if you take a difference/cost relationship then strings are THE best thing to change first, guage and brand. Massive difference, negligable cost. Win.
would that be wise considering I use the Floyd Tremolo?... I have never used thicker strings :oops:
(.010, .013, .017, .026, .036, .046) would be ok???
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Ok, then. Thats boils down to a resounding 'string change' from where I'm sitting.
Its the easiest thing to do, financially and practically. You're going to anyway, after all! may I at least recommend, whole heartedly no less, that you try 10s in E? I never once got a satisfactorily tight sound out of anything less in E: 10s are the lightest guage I use, an I use them exclusively in E. I often use 10-52 in E, and it goes up from there as I detune accross my guitars to 13-70 for B standard.
Tell me if this is telling gran to suck eggs, but of all the things you can change on your guitar if you take a difference/cost relationship then strings are THE best thing to change first, guage and brand. Massive difference, negligable cost. Win.
would that be wise considering I use the Floyd Tremolo?... I have never used thicker strings :oops:
(.010, .013, .017, .026, .036, .046) would be ok???
you'll need to do a little setup work but I currently have 2 FR guitars, one strung 10-56 and one 11-60, so yes, it will be absolutely fine
Start with 10s, and if that takes you in the right direction, experiment as the wind carries you.
Edit: And keep us posted! (no pun intended!)
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I'd recomend 10-52. The low gauge at the high end is easy to bend, tap, and just easy to play with but the .52 low E gives a good thump and structure to the sound without being over the top, so you can solo + have a good chugga chugga sound.
I use .11-.54's on my ESP EC-1000, LP scale length. Chunky, but its a little hard to bend more than 1/2 step. I like tight bottom strings because I palm mute really hard so it sound really tight and focused.
I've found that if your 6th string is lower than 50 you just get some pansy ass muddy chatter for palm mutes. 52 is minimum for CHUNK. 54 in E and D definitely gives you a big pounding. 56 is too tight for E and D for me (even on a LP type guitar). I'd probably use that for Drop C. I used this spread sheet that calculates what string gauges and tension you get for notes and it helps a lot. I don't remember where I got it from. I need a place to upload spread sheets. I think something is wrong with it, I don't think it knows that B is only 1/2 step below C.
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I'd recomend 10-52. The low gauge at the high end is easy to bend, tap, and just easy to play with but the .52 low E gives a good thump and structure to the sound without being over the top, so you can solo + have a good chugga chugga sound.
I use .11-.54's on my ESP EC-1000, LP scale length. Chunky, but its a little hard to bend more than 1/2 step. I like tight bottom strings because I palm mute really hard so it sound really tight and focused.
I've found that if your 6th string is lower than 50 you just get some pansy ass muddy chatter for palm mutes. 52 is minimum for CHUNK. 54 in E and D definitely gives you a big pounding. 56 is too tight for E and D for me (even on a LP type guitar). I'd probably use that for Drop C. I used this spread sheet that calculates what string gauges and tension you get for notes and it helps a lot. I don't remember where I got it from. I need a place to upload spread sheets. I think something is wrong with it, I don't think it knows that B is only 1/2 step below C.
I think we're on a similar page string guage wise, but for Octavio, whose never used anything but 9-42, 10-52 or 12-54 (both guages I use, BTW) are going to be a bit of a step! It'll likely rip his fingertips off or at least give his forearms a serious workout.
I started in 9-42, but havent used that for...oh, 7 years now (one year of it). I went to 10s and the difference was more than enough to make think "Well, thats great, but what if I use MORE?".
Now I use 10-46 for janglier chord stuff and 10-52 for metal in E/ drop D.
Standard D/drop C: 10-56, 12-54
C#/drop B: 11-60
B/ drop A: 13-70 (though the 11-60s can handle it if I play lightly compared to my normal metal playing picking aggression level of 'strings are evil and must be punnished')
So, again, I recommend 10-46 and see if it does you any good (and it will, or I'll pay for the strings!) and then up from there!
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then I'll be inbetween you guys :
(.010, .013, .017, .028, .038, .048) they shall be :)
so I will give the Miracle Man another chance!! I hope this will solve my problem
thanks guys 8)
but more opinions wouldn't hurt :lol:
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Any time 8)
Change ASAP and tell us how it goes.
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i think it's a myth that heavier string guages give better sounds,
evidence wise, jeff beck and jimmy page always used very light strings, in fact beck favoured 8's, and they sounded alright!!!
steve vai uses 9's, Diamond (dimebag) Darrel used a set of 9's, do either of them sound soft???
i must admit, i generally use 10'a myself, but i have 9's on a couple of guitars and they sound just fine. i use 10's on gibson scale lengths, and 9's on 25,5", but on 25", PRS etc. scale, i have a mix of 10's and 9's
it's all personal taste, isn't it?
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i think it's a myth that heavier string guages give better sounds,
evidence wise, jeff beck and jimmy page always used very light strings, in fact beck favoured 8's, and they sounded alright!!!
steve vai uses 9's, Diamond (dimebag) Darrel used a set of 9's, do either of them sound soft???
i must admit, i generally use 10'a myself, but i have 9's on a couple of guitars and they sound just fine. i use 10's on gibson scale lengths, and 9's on 25,5", but on 25", PRS etc. scale, i have a mix of 10's and 9's
it's all personal taste, isn't it?
How do you know?
I mean, you mention guys that use *blah* guage, but how would you know what they sound like with a different guage? I'm sure they tried em and made their minds up, but you've only heard them using what they use, in amongst all the other stuff they use.
Sorry, but thats not evidence. Evidence would be showing that they make no difference while keeping everything else the same in a setup.
I mean, in Eb slayer use 9-42, and it sounds heavy because they use modded silly-power marshalls...but how would it sound if they played reign in blood with 10-52? Kerry and Jeff probably know, but not you or I.
I've tried many string guages. Almost all that there are (8-38 (didnt last long!), 9-42, 9-46, 10-46, 9.5-48, 10-52, 11-50, 12-54, 11-53, 10-60, 11-60, 10-70, 13-70 adn a couple of wound 4th sets that I gave a chance for 10 minutes that werent that different at the extremities but have forgotten have all passed through my electrics. Some stayed), and it makes a HUGE difference.
HUGE.
And yes, its all prefference. But please dont try to tell us that string guage makes little difference. It doesnt change the character of your tone (though string brand will!) but it will change your tone a lot!
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i personally think their is a HUGE difference in string guages, especially on the low end. i don't see too big a difference with the high end, that's why i use the ZW boomers. man the low end just sound so much better.
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so this thread went from pickups to strings :lol:
so if I applied these 10s gauge strings and used a Painkiller... mmmm...
woudn't that be tightness paradise? 8)
some more thoughts on the painkiler please :D !!!
gotta compare them with the Miracle Man
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I havent tried the painkiller, but all things being equal the MM is the last word in tightness in my experience, including an 81 (I have an MM in a guitar that has also had an 81 in, and while the 81 is still, as always, incredibly tight, the MM just about takes it).
Edi: though that is with my overwound MM, which seems, strangely, tighter than the stock model (I think it was compensated for in the wid: it was treblier too, contrary to expectation).
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Here's a good site for calculating string tension (http://www.pacificsites.net/~dog/StringTensionApplet.html). It uses D'Addario numbers but it should be close enough for government work.
Just some FYI here, Tim uses TNT Boomers(.010 - .052) so if you want to use what Tim uses. :D
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i think it's a myth that heavier string guages give better sounds,
evidence wise, jeff beck and jimmy page always used very light strings, in fact beck favoured 8's, and they sounded alright!!!
But that's partly because light strings were a new phenomenon in the late 60s - those guys grew up struggling with wound thirds! Guitarists as a breed are very conservative, once we settle on something we're reluctant to change (although I think Beck now uses a 9-46 set). And there are examples in both directions - Tony Iommi uses 8s (but he has a physical reason for doing so), SRV used 13-58 or something!
I sort of agree with you though - there was certainly an obsession 10-15 years ago with getting the heaviest strings you possibly could, to the extent that it was physically painful to play. I know Neville Marten at Guitarist always used to bang on about string gauges but eventually went back to 9s. Personally I've always used 10s on everything, I bend strings all the time and I like to feel I don't have to fight them. I've also found that with some guitars, anything less than 10s doesn't seem to have the "power"(?) to get the unplugged guitar resonating.
BUT the guys we're talking about were playing mainstream(ish) music in standard tuning (I know Dimebag was playing some very heavy music, but he was a guy my age (almost!) who grew up on classic 70s rock, so again I think he stuck to the same basic setup he had early on).
I don't know much about extreme metal and I wouldn't have a clue how to play it, but it seems to be all about low tunings and precision rhythm playing on the low strings. I've tried drop-D a little, and even then the 6th string feels a bit flabby and unresponsive. Heavy strings MUST make a difference because they literally don't flap around as much, they snap back into place ready for the next chord. It's not like bending strings when you're fighting the string tension, in this case tension is your friend!
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I think string gauges can make or break a guitar's tone (I've played 11s in standard tuning since forever).
I sold an SG a good few years back that had 11s on but I changed it back to 9s when I sold it. When I put the 9s on and plugged the guitar in the tone had REALLY suffered (not just the 'feel').
In my experience, the action on a guitar can also have the same effect. There is a sweet spot where the guitar just 'rings' - I can't cope with those low shredder actions (yuk!)
Finally (getting back to pickups), I have a Miracle Man in my Les Paul and feel its a very tight and defined pickup. I always think of it being built specifically for speed metal - chunky AND defined!!!
:twisted:
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Well you can use an EQ really well for tighten the things up.An EQ in your rig will be "active" ,and it is far away from being overkill.Try a MXR 10 band EQ.Perfect for changing your amp tone ,reshape it as you like to.The GAin control is perfect too ,so you can lower the output from your PU ,or give it even more gain.
String Gauge change ,or string brand change is a huge step IMHO.
I am a string whore myself ,and believe me ,it's a big difference.
My Fav strings are Dean Markley blue steels now.Less overtones (it will be no problem for the MM anyway) ,more midds and tighter tone!The Tightest string that i used where Daddario 12/56's.But they are too fat for your playing!
Your amp is far away from being tight ,so EQ and strintg change will be the best bet..still ,170 dollars are less than 2000 dollars for a new amp anyway!
Oh , BTW ,did you try to change your picks?Nylon picks have a looser tone than tortex ,and celluloits are the tightest and nicest ringing for my ears.And picking position plays a role too.The closer to the bridge ,the tighter the tone gets!And muting the strings that you don't play is a great step in tighter playing!
I hope it helps
Cheers! :lol:
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wow! thanks alot guys!
I sure need to try out all the things you mentioned!
EQ and string gauge will be on my list :)
Now that we are talking about cheap things that really make a difference I can say that I also use "dunlop black jazz picks".
keep em coming. I'm sure this is also useful info for other guys as well 8)
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wow! thanks alot guys!
I sure need to try out all the things you mentioned!
EQ and string gauge will be on my list :)
Now that we are talking about cheap things that really make a difference I can say that I also use "dunlop black jazz picks".
keep em coming. I'm sure this is also useful info for other guys as well 8)
The Tortex Jazz ones (the tortex material but the jazz form) ,The Jazztones (205 ,206) ,ot the typical Nylon Jazz in black?
The first one is a great allrounder ,the jazztones are 2mm thick and great for shredding but not well defined for downstroked palmuted riffing.The las one is not tight enough for my ears.and i hate the attack with some noise.
Ibanez heavy (1mm)'s are great.The teardrop formed ones are tight ,well gripping and long lasting.If you like it so small as you said.the Ibanez heavy (celluloid) would be the best bet.try them out dude!
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How do you know?
I mean, you mention guys that use *blah* guage, but how would you know what they sound like with a different guage? I'm sure they tried em and made their minds up, but you've only heard them using what they use, in amongst all the other stuff they use.
Sorry, but thats not evidence. Evidence would be showing that they make no difference while keeping everything else the same in a setup.
I mean, in Eb slayer use 9-42, and it sounds heavy because they use modded silly-power marshalls...but how would it sound if they played reign in blood with 10-52? Kerry and Jeff probably know, but not you or I.
I've tried many string guages. Almost all that there are (8-38 (didnt last long!), 9-42, 9-46, 10-46, 9.5-48, 10-52, 11-50, 12-54, 11-53, 10-60, 11-60, 10-70, 13-70 adn a couple of wound 4th sets that I gave a chance for 10 minutes that werent that different at the extremities but have forgotten have all passed through my electrics. Some stayed), and it makes a HUGE difference.
HUGE.
And yes, its all prefference. But please dont try to tell us that string guage makes little difference. It doesnt change the character of your tone (though string brand will!) but it will change your tone a lot!
whoops, didn't mean any offence! :oops:
i don't mean to say that string guage doesn't make any difference to tone, it absolutely does, just that this perception has built up that only heavy strings can sound good.
lighter and heavier strings will sound different, but only the person playing them can say which they prefer.
as to the pickups, i have a 7 string miracle man and i do sometimes find it lacks some definition, despite what others say. to get the best out of it seems to require amp settings that then don't suit my other guitars. for the right job it's fantastic, but it's definately less versatile than a lot of other bareknuckles. not quite a one trick pony, but it fulfills it's job description, which is all you can really expect of it.
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No offence, man, of course not. It was just something that I KNOW is wrong, so I had to ask: dont tout the misinformation.
Thanks for the clarification, but what I got from what you wrote before was 'they dont make a difference' not 'you dont need them'.
Fact is, if you want a tight metal tone...you still dont need them but it makes an incredible difference (your example in metal, dime, had a pretty tight tone that he got from an array of pedals adn SS amps...not all things equal!).
There are tonal benefits to thin strings too...but a tight, heavy sound isnt one of them!
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If you try the 10s and find them too much there are now a number of companies making 9.5 - 44 or 9.5 - 46 guage. Try Curt Mangan, R.Cocco, Caribe and SIT. (some are cheaper than others! :) )
I have used them on my Gibson scale Charvel as 9s are too light but 10s just feel wrong under my fingers.
That said I'm now using Elixir 10s as it's been so humid here that most strings corrode too quickly and they last a lot longer, unfortunately they don't make 9.5s.
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this may sound wierd but I decided to go for the "Nailbomb" bridge with my cold sweat.
I will start using a hevier string gauge and go down to "Eb".
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i still don't see why people with 9's don't just step up to 10's. i honestly believe the tone is much better. and all it takes is one week and you won't even realize that you're playing on 9's. I went from 9's one week, to 10's the next, and now i'm at 11's. i can bend them just as good as i could with the 9's, and everything feels more tight, and right. and they help me rhyme.
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OK... just one note ahahahahah
Nailbomb is #$%!& Tight. i thought it was flabby or something like that. but i just amazed on how the pickup surpassed my expectations.
it has bass enough, TIGHTNESS enough, and excellent mids.
Good Harmonics, and Very good Middles.
i wish it had an overal darker sound. but itīs FAR than Excellent.
iīll keep this one and get MORE bkps. definitelly.
Its the devilīs Pickups.
JP
it won't sound too bright on alder???
Alder? i think it will not sound that brighter.
since you have a mesa boogie amp right?
Q:)
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OK... just one note ahahahahah
Nailbomb is #$%!& Tight. i thought it was flabby or something like that. but i just amazed on how the pickup surpassed my expectations.
it has bass enough, TIGHTNESS enough, and excellent mids.
Good Harmonics, and Very good Middles.
i wish it had an overal darker sound. but itīs FAR than Excellent.
iīll keep this one and get MORE bkps. definitelly.
Its the devilīs Pickups.
JP
it won't sound too bright on alder???
Looking at Full Distortion's list of guitar brands most of those are alder bodied guitars, so maybe his Nailbomb isn't as dark since it's already in an alder bodied guitar? I don't know, I've heard plenty of nailbomb clips in many different wooded guitars and none of them have sounded too bright at all. Opeth you'd defintely want Nailbomb, Painkiller is more for gay English Leather Biker Rock :P
well, almost all my guitars are basswood... and iīm really NOT a fan of this wood. this wood is too neutral.
the only exception is the ibanez. mahogany body. the rest are basswood body guitars
Q:)
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mmmm.... does it really sound "british" and gay :( ?...
Well it definitely sounds British, but only fairly gay IMHO. Gayer than a Warpig, but not as gay as a Dimebucker or ....
Maybe that's something Tim and the boys could consider including in the specs on the website update - DC resistance, bass, lower mids, upper mids, treble and gayness.
ahaHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaahaHahaHAhaHahaHAhaHAhaHAhaAHaHAhh
AHhAHAhaahAHAhaHAhaHAhaHAhaHahAHaAHahaHahAHahAH
ahAHahAHahAhaHAhahaahahahahahAHahAHahAHAh
That was $%&#ign Funny Philly
you cracked me up i almost pissed my pants ... too much laughings
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"I just lurve my Warpig... Squeal little piggie.. squeal....
(http://www.gaydar.co.uk/images/homepage/home2.jpg)
"hey is that a Nailbomb in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?"
ahAHAHAHAHAHAH AND THAT WAS ULTRA FUNNY
AHAHAHAHAAHH shite. stop with that gay jokes or iīll laugh so strong that iīll cry
ahahahahahahahaahahah
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Hej MDV
"I was just trying to point you in the direction of looking at other aspects of your sound. Its possible for teh MM to sound mushy in a mushy amp, for example. Its quite scooped with a lot of low mids, so if you play scooped, or you have an amp that is strong in those ranges (like my TSL) then it may lose clarity. "
I TOTALLY Agree with your lines
i took me a while(and im still figuring out) to get used to my 5150.after years of SS amp playings.
not telling that octavio has some faggy amps, but just telling my experience.
ok,Octavio, if you are not goign to use a lot of Blastpicking(like black and death metal picking. you call it Alternated picking)..then get a nailbomb.
and, if you are concerned about the brightness. email tim about it. if you think it will sound bright.
mine is installed in my Charvel Fusion Deluxe. Basswood(or poplar? not sure yet) ,and maple/rosewood neck fret.
24 short scale.
tuned to D standard. no drop d(fagīs tuning ahahahahah) and with 0.12 string gauge. Daddario strings.
the Nailbomb is tight. excellent from Thrash and Heavy Metal.
itīs brightness is compensated by the ammpount of bass. so, it didnīt sound Brittle, harsh, fizzy or fuzzy in my gear. itīs a 5150 head and a marshall 4x12 1960.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh you may try to hear the guys advice and try anotehr settings on your amp
i,personally donīt like to scoop my middles. itīs like hide my dick in my pants. ahahahahahahah like a she male does. ahahah not my cup of tea at all. ahahahahahahahaha LOL.
i like mids. they help the crunchy, the Lead voiceins and articulation and they help you to shine on the bandīs mix.
also, the nailbombīs bass are great
the only thing that will sound not as dirty as i would like, is the fact that i previously described here.. about the blastpicking/alternated black/death metal picking. it will clean this technique too much, and it will not have the same vibe. as if you were playing it through a nastier pickup.like emg.
Q:)
Then, this is the perfect pickup for clean stuff, clean and distorted leads, semi distorted tunes, ultra distorted, distorted and even Faggy distorted sounds.
it sounds Airy,vintage and metal.
this is an excellent/perfect Pickup for Heavy/Thrash Metal. and other mellow, but still Metal Musical Styles.
trust me. ahahahahah
$%&#gin Hails.
João Paulo
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MDV... i also would like to ask for your $%&#ing help on the string gauge thing.
i have this Ibanez S1220Wnf prestige. maple /rosewood neck/fretboard.
22 jumbo frets.
scale mus be a 25,5 or a 25,75ī
and iīm having problems with itīs tightness
strings NEVER soung tighter.
i use .73 and .88 strings. but i donīt use the pointy part of the pickps, but Both sides of it. donīt know if you understood. the sound sounds a lot tighter and bigger
and i preffer it than using thicker picks.
iīm using that guitar with Standard daddario 0.13 strings.
what would you recomend me?
i tried to pull out one of the 4 springs.. and it didnīt work that much. still flabby strings. And note, increased the Height on it .... itīs more than 2mm tallness.
itīs $%&#ign weird.Ah.. forgot to say that itīs tuned to B standard(Carcass-Heartwork)
$%&#ign Hails
JP
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thanks JP 8)
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MDV... i also would like to ask for your #$%!& help on the string gauge thing.
i have this Ibanez S1220Wnf prestige. maple /rosewood neck/fretboard.
22 jumbo frets.
scale mus be a 25,5 or a 25,75ī
and iīm having problems with itīs tightness
strings NEVER soung tighter.
i use .73 and .88 strings. but i donīt use the pointy part of the pickps, but Both sides of it. donīt know if you understood. the sound sounds a lot tighter and bigger
and i preffer it than using thicker picks.
iīm using that guitar with Standard daddario 0.13 strings.
what would you recomend me?
i tried to pull out one of the 4 springs.. and it didnīt work that much. still flabby strings. And note, increased the Height on it .... itīs more than 2mm tallness.
itīs $%&#ign weird.Ah.. forgot to say that itīs tuned to B standard(Carcass-Heartwork)
$%&#ign Hails
JP
Fucking hails to you mate!
Thing with massively detuning a guitar is you lose tightness: Extremely thick strings help (currently listening to NILE: drop A, 70, 50, 30 wound strings, invaders, no less, DSLs, mahogany and maple guitars, and the bass is kinda floppy).
With a normally scaled guitar you have to use uber-strings when you go below about c# (and pretty heavy strings at that point, too), so you get a massive booming low end (a la nile). The only exception to this that I've heard is my extra-dense swamp ash body, mahogany, maple and walnut neck, ebony FB Legra with a ceramic pig. I've tuned that to drop A with 11-60 and it wasnt 'tight' but it was the tightest I've ever heard that tuning (its very tight in c#, drop B).
The answer for ultra tightness at those sorts of tunings with a mortal guitar is scale length. Pickups can help, but not as much.
But for that tuning (standard B, drop A) I use 13-70 normally and 11-60 now that I know I can take the legra down there with that and it still sounds defined. Both in very tight guitars (the legra and a swinsehead Xbucker equiped epi beast), and thats as tight as I've heard 25.5 get.
P.S. Surely you mean you use .73 and .88 picks, not strings?
I agree with daamon: picks and pickin style have a massive effect on tightness. I'm not gonna patronise you with any picking advice :lol: I know you can play! But I will say that I get the best results with 1.0mm dunlop ultex. I think that .88 is the lowest thickness anyone looking to play tight metal on very thick strings should think about!
EDIT: Beware! I had to re-cut the nut (obviously) and take a dremmel to the machine head of the epi to get the 70 in! And Bob had to strip down a schaller locking tuner to get the 60 in the legra, and when I put the (super cool looking, and as it turns out, handy) fine tuner tailpiece on the bridge, I had to dremmel it out for a 60! Electric guitars just dont come out of the box to take strings much thicker than about 54/56 (your max safe bet). And they damn well should :twisted:
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Ohhhhhh $%&#gin Thankīs MDV
so, whatīs your tip for me?
the tone gets muddy when i use 1.0 .. it gets too BASSY and etc. i play better with the .73.or .79 dunlop
they are $%&#gin Excellent pickups
i didnīt like the JAZZ III AT $%&#GIN ALL
So.. my ibanez has a floyd, and i think iīll not have any problems with the string spacing.
but.. what brand of strings Do you use?
itīs hard to find 013-70 they are hybrid right?
JP
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My pleasure dude.
My tip is, in short, something - 70.
I use half a zack wylde GHS set and half a set of 12s or 13s. I try to keep the 3rd plain, but thats just my prefference.
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i like the third plain too but.. how do you
choose that!?
i mean, where should i buy it? do i need to buy 2 packs of strings?
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my tuppence worth, would be that if you can live with it, use a wound third.
To my ears any plain string above 20/22 sounds dead, all the time. I went through ages of truss rod adjustments, nut filing, bridge alterations...convinced my G was choking, till I eventually just accepted that thats how thick plain strings sound.
Thats over a variety of guitars in all sorts of tunings. (I play 12-54 or 13-56 in E)
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Actually i am very happy with a wound 3!I had allways issues with a plain one ,and it was really the only string wich lost the intonaiton every 10 minutes.The wound 3. (i play dean markley blue steels now) sounds awesome,more complex harmonics and bigger balls.
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Hey nothing wrong with a wound 3rd. Never said there was! I just prefer plain.
Its probably easier to find a wound 3rd string set (hint: 7 string!).
I wouldnt worry too much about the skinnt strings though, Nile play in 10-70 in drop-A. Half a set of 10s, the other is 30 50 70. And shred with it on scalloped fretboards! Those guys must have incredibly precise technique: even better than it seems to be from listenning to them 8)
Its all about the 4th 5th and 6th
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Well i'm using a set of 13 - 56's (B to B) and a 70 on the low F# (i tune down my 7 string). The B onmy 7 string has decent tension, but i prefer a 60 on the low B with a wound 3rd string.