Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: dave_mc on December 03, 2006, 09:45:00 PM
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I seem to be posting a lot of new threads these days... apologies for that! :oops:
anyway, on to the matter at hand...
I badly need a strat and tele- I just plain can't really get those type of tones accurately enough without that style of a guitar.... :(
Unfortunately, I'm in the unenviable position of needing them enough to totally GAS over them when I don't have them (i.e. like now), but not needing them enough to want to spend an absolute fortune on them either, and equally well, I don't want it to be total cheap cr@p either.... and the problem is compounded with my retarded nut width problem, the vast majority of cheap-ish copies have a too-small nut width. :( (for anyone who doesn't know, it needs to be at least 43mm/ 1 11/16")
I've recently come across some Agiles on the net which are actually the right nut width (which is what got me started thinking about this in the first place)! There was a strat at $260, and a tele at $400. However, I'm not certain they'll even ship to Northern Ireland, and if they do, customs (close to 25% :() and shipping (liable to be over $100) will very quickly bring up the price, and I'm a bit wary, to be honest- I've heard both good and bad things about them. ( http://www.rondomusic.net/st802w.html (http://www.rondomusic.net/st802w.html) and http://www.rondomusic.net/tc1000wad.html (http://www.rondomusic.net/tc1000wad.html) for anyone who wants them).
Anyway, finally the penny dropped! Fender Highway Ones!
The obvious sensible choice in my situation, the Mexican Fenders (or G&L versions), had always been out because of the nut width, but I'd completely forgotten about the Highway Ones.
There'd be a lot less risk in these- I could try them first at home, and then order from http://www.Thomann.de , who conveniently have really cheap prices, free postage, and I wouldn't be charged customs either (the EU is good for something other than corruption after all!). Also, I could order them separately, as postage is free for everything over 200 euro, so in the unlikely event of Thomann being cr@p, I'd only be out the cash for one of the guitars, minimising the risk/financial loss.
Here's a timely link to said Fenders: http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0111160304 (http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0111160304) and http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0111260304 (http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0111260304)
I guess my question is, what do you guys think of them? Are they any good? Overpriced? A cheaped-out attempt to con people into thinking they're getting a bone-fide USA guitar?
Or are they actually what I'm hoping, a good no-nonsense, no-frills guitar that has cut costs in the parts that don't really matter, like the finish, providing a gig-bag instead of a hard case, and a pretty poor choice of colours?
Pickups don't matter overly, I'd switch them eventually anyway.
and I'll try it myself first, don't worry!
Thanks for your help.
:drink:
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Guitarist magazine reviews the new Highway Ones this month if you can get a copy? They liked them.
For the price you could get a mint used USA Standard though...
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I would suggest checking out the light ash tele (the eastern made one) as i't about the nicest tele I have tried, and it's cheap(ish)
I don't know what the nut width is though.
The strats are supposed to be nice too
Rob...
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Ya beat me to the punch there...
Fender Lite Ash Strat - I've got one in vintage white and I think it's brilliant even straight out of the box.
Plus points = Ash body + Birds Eye Maple neck (the birds eyes on mine are great) The neck is a wonderful soft V which is very close to Clapton spec. Genuine Seymore Duncan pickups.
Negative Points = Single ply black pickguard, Plain Fender logo on headstock, Low quality pots and jack. Made in Korea so quality control is hit and miss.
Solution = Try out as many as they have in stock and find a peach.
I then took mine to feline and had a 3ply Black/white/black pickguard and all new pots and wiring.
Just for the hell of it I then got a re-fret with Dunlop 6000 and put an Uber-Sinner BKP in the bridge.
End result = I have a bloody great personalised spec Strat for F' all money with great Seymore Duncans and an incredible BKP Sinner. :twisted:
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Guitarist magazine reviews the new Highway Ones this month if you can get a copy? They liked them.
For the price you could get a mint used USA Standard though...
already have it, twin... I don't trust reviews as far as I can throw 'em, but I still like to read them- I'll probably hang off for a few weeks, though, as guitar buyer supposedly is reviewing them next issue too :lol: I'm not fussed on second hand, either... most of you will probably call me stupid (with good cause, most likely!), but there you go.
i've tried the lite ash, the nut width's wrong, unfortunately... nice guitar if it wasn't wrong, but i just can't really get over that nut width- even something awesome like a suhr would still feel "wrong" to me with too narrow a nut width...
:(
Thanks for the replies, though, i appreciate it- anyone else with any input, keep it coming! ;)
:drink:
EDIT: update- deluxe players strats (and deluxe powerhouse strats) and deluxe nashville teles have the right nut width as well, so I guess I have to try them too- I think they're mexican- but they're actually dearer than highway ones!
interesting.
anyway, I guess my main question is this- highway ones are closer in price to mexi-strats/teles than to USA standard ones- but in terms of quality, are they more comparable to USA fenders or mexi fenders?
if anyone's compared these head to head...
:drink:
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FWIW,
According to my sources, there's a red and a black highway one Strat in Matchetts at the minute, about the 480 mark. Both have maple necks, and are the new versions (big headstocks)
The word is, the black one looks fantastic.
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^ thanks, I appreciate that. by red do you mean wine-red? I don't think the new ones come in red, is all.
That'd let me try them- they kind of know me in Matchetts, though, and I can get it from Thomann for about £100 less (delivered)... don't really like to try stuff that I have no intention of buying- at least in places where they know me, lol.
But yeah, I'll look into it. Problem is, it's getting a little close to Christmas, Belfast is a hell-hole around then, even without the westlink being covered in roadworks...
I'm guessing the emporium might have some too- or maybe dawsons in bangor (though I'd need to find out where it is exactly in bangor, lol).
:drink:
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Go for a Jap Tele and Strat, much better than mex ones. I love them
J£350 for the standard range Awesome deal and loverly guitars
Joe
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But yeah, I'll look into it. Problem is, it's getting a little close to Christmas, Belfast is a hell-hole around then, even without the westlink being covered in roadworks...
I'm guessing the emporium might have some too- or maybe dawsons in bangor (though I'd need to find out where it is exactly in bangor, lol).
:drink:
Dawsons http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=BT19+7QT&spn=0.027697,0.059687&hl=en
According to the emporiums web site thay have a highway 1 tele in stock
Also try those Music Matters in lisburn as thay are fender stockists (along with ibanez) these days. http://www.musicmatterslisburn.co.uk/
Rob...
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Go for a Jap Tele and Strat, much better than mex ones. I love them
J£350 for the standard range Awesome deal and loverly guitars
Joe
I'd already been recommended them on another forum, I looked into them, but the nut width's too narrow, unfortunately (far as I can tell, going by the specs)- thanks for the input, though, I appreciate it.
:drink:
Dawsons http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=BT19+7QT&spn=0.027697,0.059687&hl=en
According to the emporiums web site thay have a highway 1 tele in stock
Also try those Music Matters in lisburn as thay are fender stockists (along with ibanez) these days. http://www.musicmatterslisburn.co.uk/
Rob...
Thanks kilby, I'll look into music matters- last time I was in it they only had mexi-fenders, but I guess it's worth a try.
Thanks for the map, too- I now have to translate that into my shaky knowledge of bangor, which pretty much consists of "there's sea near it"...
:lol:
:drink:
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The highway 1 in the emporium is gone, i fear.
There is a double-bound black MIJ tokai tele though, that's going for a song, if you ask the right guy.
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I'm in a similar boat to you, Dave. I feel the Strat-lust, but can't find one that really has the features I want. Going the custom route seemed too expensive until I saw this guy's work:
http://www.soundsinscale.com/index.php?id=gallery
I mean, just look at this:
http://www.soundsinscale.com/gallery/picture.php?image=guitars/cooke/cooke_1
He quotes £750+ for a flat-bodied guitar with £120 of pickups (which makes it £820 for the HSS set of BKPs I'm toying with). Less than an American Deluxe Strat!
Or is it better to save some money, go for a Mexican / Japanese Strat and pimp it yourself?
Decisions, decisions ...
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The highway 1 in the emporium is gone, i fear.
There is a double-bound black MIJ tokai tele though, that's going for a song, if you ask the right guy.
interesting... i'll have to check that out!
:drink:
I'm in a similar boat to you, Dave. I feel the Strat-lust, but can't find one that really has the features I want. Going the custom route seemed too expensive until I saw this guy's work:
http://www.soundsinscale.com/index.php?id=gallery
I mean, just look at this:
http://www.soundsinscale.com/gallery/picture.php?image=guitars/cooke/cooke_1
He quotes £750+ for a flat-bodied guitar with £120 of pickups (which makes it £820 for the HSS set of BKPs I'm toying with). Less than an American Deluxe Strat!
Or is it better to save some money, go for a Mexican / Japanese Strat and pimp it yourself?
Decisions, decisions ...
That's still a bit dear for what I'm after- I could pimp out the highway one with BKP's for not much over £500... and I could stick with the stock pickups till I gather up the necessary cash. Not to mention, I'd have it sooner...
Thanks for the info, though, I appreciate it, frog.
:drink:
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Dave,
Marcus music are fender dealers too, so you could try giving them a call.
Rob...
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That's still a bit dear for what I'm after-
I know what you mean. I've still got half a mind to BKP my old Squier Strat by dropping in a new scratchplate, but it seems a bit bonkers to spend more on the pickups than the guitar cost in the first place!
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Pete cooks have Highway 1 strats (teal green) for £415 in their specials section
http://www.petercooks.co.uk/specials.php
Oh yeah they have several AC30s & AC15s in the shop soiled section at reasionable pricees (with Celestion Blues installed)
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Dave,
Marcus music are fender dealers too, so you could try giving them a call.
Rob...
yeah, I know rob, I'll check it out too if I make it down to belfast- problem is, they're absolute tools in there. I remember once them not letting me try out a gibson les paul because a Zakk epi played "as well, no, in fact better", and another time they told me that marshalls were the only tube amps that you could get any distortion out of.
Not a fan. At least I know better, but if they're talking like that to everyone, there are bound to be quite a few falling for their lies.
That's still a bit dear for what I'm after-
I know what you mean. I've still got half a mind to BKP my old Squier Strat by dropping in a new scratchplate, but it seems a bit bonkers to spend more on the pickups than the guitar cost in the first place!
yeah, i have that problem with my little epi valve junior for a new speaker!
Pete cooks have Highway 1 strats (teal green) for £415 in their specials section
http://www.petercooks.co.uk/specials.php
yeah, I noticed that in guitarist magazine- though thomann is still about £30 less, and includes postage...
thanks for all the replies, guys!
:drink:
Oh yeah they have several AC30s & AC15s in the shop soiled section at reasionable pricees (with Celestion Blues installed)
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yeah, i have that problem with my little epi valve junior for a new speaker!
Celestion Alnico Blue - go on, you know you want to!
:mrgreen:
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Why change it? I think the stock speaker is great!
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I'm definitely with Kilby and Afghan Dave on this one. Fender Lite Ash series is the way to go.
I bought a Lite Ash Tele (http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0265102541) about two and half months back, and I can't recommend it highly enough.
I'm not too sure on the nut width, but it's wider than the 41mm on my Yamaha Pacifica 812W. They are well built, good value and don't sound half bad either, even though I'll admit the Duncans aren't exactly up there with BKs. The only real downside is the slightly limited colour choice.
Thomann.de has a Lite Ash Tele for 433 Euro, which is a ridiculously cheap £290. An absolute steal for a guitar which will likely be better built than a Highway 1, and won't look like a reject from the 70s either! :wink:
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yeah, i have that problem with my little epi valve junior for a new speaker!
Celestion Alnico Blue - go on, you know you want to!
:mrgreen:
I just can't justify it- added to the fact that I've never tried it, so I don't even know if I like it.
Why change it? I think the stock speaker is great!
I have the head version... :lol:
I'm definitely with Kilby and Afghan Dave on this one. Fender Lite Ash series is the way to go.
I bought a Lite Ash Tele (http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0265102541) about two and half months back, and I can't recommend it highly enough.
I'm not too sure on the nut width, but it's wider than the 41mm on my Yamaha Pacifica 812W. They are well built, good value and don't sound half bad either, even though I'll admit the Duncans aren't exactly up there with BKs. The only real downside is the slightly limited colour choice.
Thomann.de has a Lite Ash Tele for 433 Euro, which is a ridiculously cheap £290. An absolute steal for a guitar which will likely be better built than a Highway 1, and won't look like a reject from the 70s either! :wink:
that's a kickass price, but the nut width's 42mm, not 43 unfortunately (EDIT: actually, going by the official Fender specs, it might even be less :( ). I've tried the lite ash strat, and I noticed it, unfortunately.
:drink:
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Why do you have to have a 43mm nut?
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i think this a problem that might be worth getting over in the long term :? sounds like it's causing problems that just arent necessary.
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It just feels wrong if it's too narrow, I feel too cramped.
There's no chance of me getting over it, I've been playing for 7 or 8 years, and had a guitar with the wrong nut for about 5 of those years, and I haven't been able to get used to it- it's not as bad as it was, but once I play a 43mm one, it just feels more natural.
It's just not happening, unfortunately.
:drink:
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Why not get a Les Paul Junior or SG with P-90's in? They sound awesome. Why do you specifically need a strat sound? Covers band? IF its your own band why don't you just get that one sound you love instead of having to have loads of guitars?
Joe
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Why not get a Les Paul Junior or SG with P-90's in? They sound awesome. Why do you specifically need a strat sound? Covers band? IF its your own band why don't you just get that one sound you love instead of having to have loads of guitars?
Joe
Switching to gibson may open up scale length issues, but an old single coil equipped Melody Maker may cover enough ground too.
OR
Why not a strat with the Jerry Donahoe, mods to make it more Tele like ? I'm sure Tim & Jonathon could offer assistance in that direction,as I beleive it's a modded strat pickup as well as wiring.
Rob...
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Why not get a Les Paul Junior or SG with P-90's in? They sound awesome. Why do you specifically need a strat sound? Covers band? IF its your own band why don't you just get that one sound you love instead of having to have loads of guitars?
Joe
come on, man, that's no fun! Next you'll be telling us GAS is a bad thing!
Whenever I get a bit more cash I actually am planning to order a Gordon Smith with p90's, I actually have emailed them inquiring about it, just it turned out to be a little more than I expected...
But I guess the reason I want a strat and tele is because I like 'em. I'm not in a band at all. There's nothing I'd really rather spend my money on, so I don't really see a problem.
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Switching to gibson may open up scale length issues, but an old single coil equipped Melody Maker may cover enough ground too.
OR
Why not a strat with the Jerry Donahoe, mods to make it more Tele like ? I'm sure Tim & Jonathon could offer assistance in that direction,as I beleive it's a modded strat pickup as well as wiring.
Rob...
I can notice a little the different scale lengths, but by and large I don't mind it anywhere near as much as the nut widths- so it's not really a problem. (yep, I'm strange!)
as for the tele/strat hybrid- fender already do make a tele/strat hybrid ( http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0135302367 ). Problem is, I'm worried that if I don't get exactly what I'm after, I'll still be GASsing after a strat and a tele. Also, I can already get the strat middle position sound, it's the neck/bridge I need to get, in my opinion.
Last thing I want is to have a strat, a tele, and a strat/tele hybrid, lol.
:drink:
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I can notice a little the different scale lengths, but by and large I don't mind it anywhere near as much as the nut widths- so it's not really a problem. (yep, I'm strange!)
as for the tele/strat hybrid- fender already do make a tele/strat hybrid ( http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0135302367 ). Problem is, I'm worried that if I don't get exactly what I'm after, I'll still be GASsing after a strat and a tele. Also, I can already get the strat middle position sound, it's the neck/bridge I need to get, in my opinion.
Last thing I want is to have a strat, a tele, and a strat/tele hybrid, lol.
:drink:
The scale length was just a thought
If you look at the another company who builds pickups whos name begins with D (the APST-1 twang banger), which went along side the Jerry Donahoe wiring to give the tele twang, from a strat. I'm sure that Tim has already experimented with Tele like pickups for a strat.
Fender long ago did a proper model as is shown here (but at a silly price)
http://www.wunjoguitars.com/fsjd.htm
Another thought is one of the Peavey Albert Lee models (the 2nd artist they poached from music man) or one of the old MM Albert Lee models.
Personally I would rather have a Tele and a Strat, and these days if I could only have one it would probably be the Tele (possibly going really flash with a bound body).
Rob...
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The scale length was just a thought
If you look at the another company who builds pickups whos name begins with D (the APST-1 twang banger), which went along side the Jerry Donahoe wiring to give the tele twang, from a strat. I'm sure that Tim has already experimented with Tele like pickups for a strat.
Fender long ago did a proper model as is shown here (but at a silly price)
http://www.wunjoguitars.com/fsjd.htm
Another thought is one of the Peavey Albert Lee models (the 2nd artist they poached from music man) or one of the old MM Albert Lee models.
Personally I would rather have a Tele and a Strat, and these days if I could only have one it would probably be the Tele (possibly going really flash with a bound body).
Rob...
I know the scale length was just a thought, and I appreciate that you even thought of it- it just goes to show how strange I am when it comes to dimensions of guitars, lol.
I agree, I'd rather have a tele and a strat- I can see if I "make do" with something that supposedly does both sets of tones, that I'll probably end up wanting a tele and a strat as well... :(
Now I just need to get a trip to Belfast or Dublin sorted out so I can try the highway ones, americans, and mexicans to see which are best bang for the buck. Thanks for all the input, guys.
:drink:
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I agree, I'd rather have a tele and a strat- I can see if I "make do" with something that supposedly does both sets of tones, that I'll probably end up wanting a tele and a strat as well... :(
Now I just need to get a trip to Belfast or Dublin sorted out so I can try the highway ones, americans, and mexicans to see which are best bang for the buck. Thanks for all the input, guys.
:drink:
I had to sell my Mex strat today (for bugger all) to finance getting back to Belfast for a job interview I have next week :(
I bought the strat, and about a week later realised that I should really have went for a Tele as I prefer the extra 'bounce' in the tele bridge tones. Plus my Syd Barrett fixation would have been looked after properly (Dave Gilmour is all very well but .......)
Tis a shame that the far east lite ash range have the wrong width as they are an absolute steal (even the designed by pickups sound pretty decent in those guitars).
Rob...
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the pups on the lite ash series arent "Duncan Designed" - they're genuine Seymour Duncan APS series pups.
You could always buy one and then get a seperate neck off ebay or similar for dirt cheap with the nut width yu need?
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I had to sell my Mex strat today (for bugger all) to finance getting back to Belfast for a job interview I have next week :(
I bought the strat, and about a week later realised that I should really have went for a Tele as I prefer the extra 'bounce' in the tele bridge tones. Plus my Syd Barrett fixation would have been looked after properly (Dave Gilmour is all very well but .......)
Tis a shame that the far east lite ash range have the wrong width as they are an absolute steal (even the designed by pickups sound pretty decent in those guitars).
Rob...
That's a shame, man, I'm sorry to hear that.
As indy says, they're real duncans... but I suspect trying to get hold of a new neck would be more bother than it's worth, and would likely bring the price up to the same (if not more) than the highway ones... EDIT: i mean, thomann has excellent prices- there's only about £90 difference in the prices between the lite ash and highway ones, I'm guessing a new neck would cost at least that, once you factor in postage etc. Not to mention the extra bother.
As I said I'll try them and see what I think (and let you know!).
:drink:
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Dave, what about this.
http://www.fareastguitars.co.uk/usedstrat2.htm
Cheers
Steve
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^ thanks, 38th, unfortunately, the nut's a bit narrow... and I'm not too sure about the really vintage radius... believe me, though, if the nut were a little wider, I'd have been all over those japanese fenders by now!
:(
:drink:
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I'll put in a good word for the carvin bolt, its nut width is about 43.4, custom made, the necks are just beyond perfect (plus you can get a tung oil finish for no extra cost), by all accounts they're extremely well made, and the only bad thing I've ever heard about a carvin concerned the pickups...
They are a bit more expensive than highway 1s, though, and trying one out would be a pain in the hole. Plus I'm not sure the 'improvements' over the classic strat design would be a good thing or not (ebony fingerboard, wilkinson trem, tilt back headstock etc)
Or you could get a kit, for maybe slightly shy of £300, or around £360 if you order a finished body and tung oiled neck. They're also quite flexible with custom options. Dunno if you have any interest in putting a guitar together, but it's a thought.
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Sorry Dave, I should have spotted that-I was kinda carried away by the colour.
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the pups on the lite ash series arent "Duncan Designed" - they're genuine Seymour Duncan APS series pups.
My mistake as it was over a year ago that I tried one (I preferresd the far east model to the US built). I also tried a Squire Esprit (which is duncan designed)
Possibly the wrong site to say this but the lite ash sounded like a good tele should
I guess I am now officially senile
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I'll put in a good word for the carvin bolt, its nut width is about 43.4, custom made, the necks are just beyond perfect (plus you can get a tung oil finish for no extra cost), by all accounts they're extremely well made, and the only bad thing I've ever heard about a carvin concerned the pickups...
They are a bit more expensive than highway 1s, though, and trying one out would be a pain in the hole. Plus I'm not sure the 'improvements' over the classic strat design would be a good thing or not (ebony fingerboard, wilkinson trem, tilt back headstock etc)
Or you could get a kit, for maybe slightly shy of £300, or around £360 if you order a finished body and tung oiled neck. They're also quite flexible with custom options. Dunno if you have any interest in putting a guitar together, but it's a thought.
thanks, I hadn't thought of carvin... as you say, though, trying them is the problem... far as I'm aware, the only dealers are in England... :(
Sorry Dave, I should have spotted that-I was kinda carried away by the colour.
:lol:
no problem, 38th, I appreciate the fact that you tried! :drink:
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UPDATE!
I tried a pile of strats and teles today.
Tried highway one strats, USA standard strats, lite ash strat (danno's one!), and mexican teles, USA standard tele, and USA standard ash tele.
I think the USA standards (and in the case of the tele, the ash one too) were better guitars, the tone of the wood seemed better, and "bigger", but the jumbo frets and neck profile of the highway ones suited me a little better. Also, I liked the pickups better on the highway one, though that's pretty academic as I'd probably swap them sooner or later anyway.
They didn't have any highway one teles, but the standard ash tele ruled- I think I like alder better in strats, but ash better in teles, for some reason- though I'd like to try a USA ash strat, just for a totally fair comparison.
I don't trust the suspiciously-Mexican-alike trem and tuners on the highway ones, though (didn't get to try the trem, the bars weren't attached)- and the finish is pretty cr@p-looking.
I'll probably end up going for a USA standard, if I can gather up the cash, convince myself it's worth it, and get to try several so i get to pick the one I want- I tried several USA ones, and some did feel better than others, even if that was maybe only newer strings, etc.
Also, Thomann has raised the prices of the highway ones by about 30 euro (£20)- which definitely goes in favour of the USA standards too.
I'll hopefully get a trip down to Dublin arranged in the next day or two, so I should get to try a pile more down there, I'll decide after that.
:drink:
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Forget the Highway Ones, they're good but they aren't a patch on the Japanese Fenders. Trust me. 8)
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^ more than likely, but any of the japanese ones I've seen advertised have a too-narrow nut for my liking... :(
:drink:
any opinions on warmoth, anyone?
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Warmoth: good guitars but daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn they're expensive.
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^ I'm a bit wary about them coming half-finished. There's no way I could fix up dodgy fret-ends etc.
Plus, as you say, customs and postage are liable to crank the price way up. Plus you have to remember everything you need to order.
:drink: