Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: sambo on December 28, 2006, 08:46:51 PM
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tried a lot of stuff in Coda music and Machinehead...
- Mesa F30
- Mesa Rect-o-verb
- Marshall TSL600
- Orange Rocker 30
- Engl Screamer
- Couple of Fenders with distortion pedals
Fell in love with the Orange and the ENGL but in the end practicality/versatility won over; the Orange just didnt quite have enough tonal options for my needs.
so the i settled on an ENGL (without the ridiculously overpriced footswitch though)...
so pleased... finally have a decent sounding amp...
oh and i can now appreciate some of the negative comments about the TSL/JCM2000 series that i've heard... really wasn't that impressed.
anyway, no real point to this thread... im just ecstatic... ! :D
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so i thought... what amps do i know of that are known for that kinda sound in my price range? well the JCM800 itself of course... but then i remembered that they're single channel amps... AGH!
I don't think they are, I only used one once and that was over a decade ago but am pretty sure they have two channels. :?
Am sure Monsieur Feline or someone will be along soon to say for sure...
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really? bugger... maybe im wrong then...
anyone able to clarify this?
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Well you didnt specify a price range, and I know Laney are considered "flavour of the month", but a VH100R (or the discontinued combo version) seems like it'd work really well for you. Heres a clip I found of one through a Framus V30s 2x12 on HC, sounds perfect to me
http://lucaonida.googlepages.com/Laneyprova3.mp3
Then again theres always the option of getting a good valve power amp to use with your Line 6 seeing as you allready like the tone of it and a valve power amp would make it sound more "real" I'm guessing.
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that clip is definttely the kinda sound i'm after...
and yer woops bout price range
:oops:
ive got about £700... although i could wait longer... sell some stuff... might be able to push it to nearer £1000 after a while... (not sure how long exactly)
and the power amp idea is definately interesting.... having never used that kinda set-up before though i'm not sure. i'd have to try it first primarily cause like a lot of people i prefer the 'feel' of a 'real' amp... so i dunno how a modeller+power amp behaves... one to consider though.
and im just about to google the laneys now to find out the cost.
combo version would definately be better as thats half the reason im looking for a new amp- to make my life easier portability wise.
cheers.
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i think there's a two channel version of the jcm800's knocking around. I haven't tried them, though.
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ah i see.... that changes things quite drastically... hmmmm
btw i was looking over the first thread about amps i did and re-reading all your advice dave... lol...
it's reminded me to try the F30, which im gonna make sure i do tomorrow.
and i think someone mentioned a VHT Pittbull a while ago... might look into them as well.
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I know it seems weird, but I actually find my head+cab setup seems to be almost more practical to move around than my Fender combo. I guess its because the weight is spread between 2 items instead of it all combined, and it fits easier in the car as you can split it up (especially when your cars tiny like mine). I also find that a cab lets you hear yourself better in a band, especially if its angled top.
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yer i that makes sense i guess.
actually why didnt i think of this before... youve got a 2x12 haven't you Tom?
cause i keep thinking of cab as a straight forward 4x12 as opposed to anything smaller...
hmm thats a good point actually... a 2x12/some kind of smaller cabinet could be good for me.
and i agree with you about cabs letting you hear yourself better in a band situation as well... so maybe your right and a cab would be a better option. mmm.
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Yep, mines a vertical 2x12 which seems to be the best of both worlds - more portable than a 4x12, but sounds bigger than a combo and as the top speaker is angled you can hear yourself a bit better.
Then again, you could always get a 2x12 combo and a combo stand but I think I'd prefer a head + cab from now on.
Just keep looking on ebay for cabs, remember mine was only £83 :P
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yer vertical sounds cool.
and yer i still cant believe that deal of the century of yours lol.
hmm this has changed my outlook quite considerably lol.... heads are now back on the agenda.... more decisions to be made.
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haha yeah I'm still pleased with it, even though I'm gonna get a V30 for it soon as I've heard so many good things about em and that clip I linked to just sounds perfect to me.
Guess I should've kept my mouth shut as it seems like I've just made your choice even harder :lol:
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yer that clip does indeed sound really nice.
and yes you have lol.
im gonna play as much stuff as i can tomorrow in both machinehead and Coda and then just see how i feel... might come away with something... might not.
i shall see how it goes.
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About time you bloody got one, you've been asking about them for ages.
I too despise the TSL series. The guitarist in my previous band had one and it sounded like a wasp nest nestling in his amp. I thought the only thing they were good for was soft rock sounds.
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Mwahaha, well played Sambo, even if you did have to visit the ridiculously overpriced with tw@ts in it Machinehead in order to get it!
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lol! tell me me about it... when i first went in... i actually heard them talking about charging this guy an extra £30 or somethin for no real reason.... one of them was like
"i let that guy get off too cheap... shouldve asked for more... "
so his work mate simply said:
"oh just charge him another 30 or something... just tell him he has to pay another 30"
bar-stewards... still... i dont care as long as i have my amp lol.
and yer your right steve... ive been talking about amps for so long... FINALLY have one... ahh its such a relief!!!
and yer you nailed it about the TSLs- only good for soft rock.... there was just nothing that exciting about it... especially not to warrant £700.... at least with the Mesas i could see how some people would really like their sound because theyre just voiced specifically... but the TSLs just werent very good in general.
now i must get back to my baby... ive just hooked up my Kerry King... oh lord...
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You'll find Coda are like that too. I dislike some of the guys in Coda more so than some in Machinehead. Though the guys in Machinehead probably get a bit worried when I walk in because two of their amps stopped working for no reason when I was trying them out. :lol:
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No lub for TSLs?
I have 602 (with JJ tubes, I'll grant you) and a screamer, and lately I've been getting better tones from the TSL (with an EQ in the effects loop).
Screamers are pretty good though (I've had mine long enought now to be aware of its weaknesses as well as strengths: they arent amazing amps, but they are very good).
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haha!!! classic :lol:
did they actually say anything to you? lol...
and yer, i havent spent much time at all in Coda, but im starting to feel that the machinehead guys at least 'know their stuff' a bit better than Coda...
especially since today i asked for a small-ish valve combo for gigging, with two channels being essential.... and the first thing he recommended i look at was a tiny one-channel fender with a Boss DS-1 in front of it... which wasn't exactly tone-heaven to be honest... (just off topic- i think the DS-1 is probably the sh*ttest distortion pedal known to man...)...
so yer my opinion of them has lowered slightly, and the machinhead guys were quite friendly today...
i think i remember you saying something about Coda doing a cr@p job on a set-up for a guitar of yours... ?
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Top man! Oddly enough, I just opined on this in Jinskee's thread. Yes, I've gound Engl to still be one of the effectively best kept secrets; without rubbishing Marshall, I have to say that it was only by thoroughly getting into the Engl that I realised my frustration with the Marshall...either woolly or scooped and fizzy unless ramped up to 11. I was able with the Engl to rid myself of tubey overdrive pedals and let the valves do the biz...though I also agree with the comment about the pricey floorswitch.
(On a related yet immature note, I have to say I love the steel grille: darn handy to stick on the front of a 4x4 if travelling through a herd of Gloucershire rhino)
Presumably the speaker is a Celestion V30? My workaround on the price of Engl cabs was to buy my own speaker and make my own cab, using mdf instead of birch-ply: the result was less toppy-sounding and helped my love of the round middles that this company's amps can provide. I'd go as far as to suggest an Ibanez tube-screamer as a front-end shaper if needs be, but again, I'm glad you've got a very tidy un-Christmas prezzy!
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haha!!! classic :lol:
did they actually say anything to you? lol...
and yer, i havent spent much time at all in Coda, but im starting to feel that the machinehead guys at least 'know their stuff' a bit better than Coda...
especially since today i asked for a small-ish valve combo for gigging, with two channels being essential.... and the first thing he recommended i look at was a tiny one-channel fender with a Boss DS-1 in front of it... which wasn't exactly tone-heaven to be honest... (just off topic- i think the DS-1 is probably the sh*ttest distortion pedal known to man...)...
so yer my opinion of them has lowered slightly, and the machinhead guys were quite friendly today...
i think i remember you saying something about Coda doing a cr@p job on a set-up for a guitar of yours... ?
Yeah that's right, I bought a Jackson RR3 from them. I had to get them to sharp the knife edges of the tremolo because it kept going out of tune. It took them almost 5 weeks to get it back to me and it was still doing the same problem
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:D thanks mate
and hahaha!!! yer the grill is a nice touch definitely :lol:
i thought it was a V30 but having inspected further its a G12... (i think... ?.... im not clued-up on speakers at all)...
and nice one on the cab-building...
are you talking about a screamer head then i presume? or just an extension cab for a combo?
and a tube-screamer is an intersting idea as i did think about a JCM800+tube screamer combination.... might work just as well with the ENGL- thanks for the suggestion!
just out of interest, (if it is the same amp we're talking about)... what settings do you usually use on the lead channel? im just starting to tweak it a bit more and getting to grips with fine tuning the EQ in conjunction with the presence control... damn versatile this thing.
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ouch.... 5 weeks.... for a guitar you bought from them!!!? thats not good.
the action on my gibson was horrible when i bought it from them too actually.
at least machinehead set-up every guitar they sell... or so they claim any way...
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I like the Coda people!
They are always cool to me and help me out when i need stuff etc.
The only time i ever go to Machinehead is when i need a pack of strings, and sometimes i don't even do that!
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No lub for TSLs?
I have 602 (with JJ tubes, I'll grant you) and a screamer, and lately I've been getting better tones from the TSL (with an EQ in the effects loop).
Screamers are pretty good though (I've had mine long enought now to be aware of its weaknesses as well as strengths: they arent amazing amps, but they are very good).
personal preference i guess.... to be fair i couldnt use the marshall quite as loud as the ENGL... which would have played its part...
and im starting to see already that you are indeed right- the ENGL isnt perfect by any means.
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I like the Coda people!
They are always cool to me and help me out when i need stuff etc.
The only time i ever go to Machinehead is when i need a pack of strings, and sometimes i don't even do that!
jesus im replying at like a message a minute!!!
well they're polite and nice people... which is great... but i just get the impression that the machinhead people are more clued up about the gear theyre selling...
depends on which staff member specifically i spose... at least Coda doesnt have a snobby owner who gets angry at you when HIS shop charges you £40 to INCORRECTLY fit a pickup....
:evil: :x
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:lol: hahaha, what a bunch o' noobs!
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:lol: hahaha, what a bunch o' noobs!
:lol: precisely! :lol:
besides the cr@pness of hertfordshires guitar shops... i now have to think about how/when im gonna crank this beast.
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No lub for TSLs?
I have 602 (with JJ tubes, I'll grant you) and a screamer, and lately I've been getting better tones from the TSL (with an EQ in the effects loop).
Screamers are pretty good though (I've had mine long enought now to be aware of its weaknesses as well as strengths: they arent amazing amps, but they are very good).
personal preference i guess.... to be fair i couldnt use the marshall quite as loud as the ENGL... which would have played its part...
and im starting to see already that you are indeed right- the ENGL isnt perfect by any means.
Yeah mate the TSLs are fizzy and THIN at low volumes. You do need to know how to get the sounds out of it, but there are some great ones in there for metal.
Edit: screamers can often be very brittle and have a push-less midrange. Using an EQ and wereslting with the prescence/gain/treble can get it out though.
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machinehead gave me a free selector switch tip. it didnt fit, but i wont have anything said against them :P
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^ :lol: :lol: :lol:
and Mark, hmm perhaps i disregarded the Marshall too quickly then. its a shame i didnt get to give it a particularly thorough test... ah well.
and yer i agree about the 'push-less' midrange of the ENGL.... compared to the Orange Rocker 30 it sounded much less powerful.... the orange felt like a BEAST in the low-midrange despite not really having as much gain and at the same volume... and im starting to see signs of where the brittleness can creep in...
still, for my needs the ENGL is as good an amp as i could possibly want, and still sounds damn good.
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i got the hugely heavy and metal oversized footpedal included with my Screamer when i bough it..... its now living with Telboy :)
good choice Sambo :D
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You made a good choice, sambo.
If I had a gun to my head I'd pick the ENGL. Mainly for versatility and clarity.
Remember my TSLs a 2x12 and I've put better valves in and, most importantly, corrected the bias. I've never played one that sounded biased properly, and bought mine because it was the closest and guessed what was going on, realised it was a good amp, got to crank it too, so I bought it.
I think the guys on the marshall production line need to rush things just a little less: you need to use your ears as well a voltmeter to bias. Tut tut and indeed, tut.
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haha cheers chris, and mark too.
(thats cool that Tellboy has your screamer now as well Chris... dont really know why... just is... adds to the BKP happy-family-feeling... :lol: )
and yer i see what your saying mark.
the two are quite different essentially.
how much difference do valves and biasing really make then?
im guessing a lot going by what youve said so far...
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haha cheers chris, and mark too.
(thats cool that Tellboy has your screamer now as well Chris... dont really know why... just is... adds to the BKP happy-family-feeling... :lol: )
and yer i see what your saying mark.
the two are quite different essentially.
how much difference do valves and biasing really make then?
im guessing a lot going by what youve said so far...
They are very different amps. They both make full use of the benefits of their respective power tubes: Marshall: strong mids, high saturation sound, engl, lots of highs and lows and glassy clarity.
In the refit I tried it out between putting the pre and power tubes in. I found that the JJ12AX7s are sharper with more attack, then the power tubes added quite a bit of lows compared to the originals, much fuller sound. The biasing sweetened up the mids and warmed up the tone, for want of a better way to put it.
The biggest effect was changing the tubes, though. You cant quantify how much, so its hard to explain the magnitude of the effects, but htose are they (to my ears).
It improved it enough to make me wonder if those valves in the screamer could be better...
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hmm interesting.
i always thought about upgrading the valves of my old LC30 just to see what the difference would be like... but never got round to it...
might go ahead and try a different combination in the ENGL now though.
hmmmmmmmmm
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sambo, you and MDV are making the good point about working at the amp tone, as there's subtle interplay between many a knob on the Engls.( My old Marshall JTM as I remember did not have a middle, so the presence of one on the Engl has been a welcome change!)
I'd better qualify that my Engl is the Sovereign112 combo and I use the extension cab for larger venues(actually hardly ever as it happens at the mo); yes, it has bags of treble in reserve and I am very sparing with presence, though again the controls are deceptively subtle in their interplay. What with 2 master volumes as well as "soft" and "heavy" lead, there are differing tonal colours available depending on pre- and -post amping too.
As regards your enquiry about settings, well, I'm a middly sorty of chap for single note work: I keep bass, treble and presence all at zero(honestly there's enough inherently there) and middle at full on. The soft lead setting and lead volume I push hard, so as to have the beginnings of that compressed saturation at the pre-stage...as you can imagine, this succeeds in a fizz-free zone. Also, to be honest, what with the channel switching and the guitar's tone+vol, there's enough ready tonal width without adding anything else on the floor. If I want more, I just engage a wah c--ked in the bass position for more fruitiness, relying totally on the amp alone for overdrive. IF(hardly ever) I need to go into "triple rectal" pseudo-mode, I can flip into the amp's Heavy Lead setting, slide up the gain pot on the wah, and yowl like a tw@t. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an Engl fanboy but confess to being thoroughly thankful it's the type of amp that allows my guitars to speak with their natural voice: I found I was always trying to wrestle my Marshall into compromising compliance rather than relax into my playing.
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I'm glad you didnt go for the Marshall TSL! I used to own the one, they SUCK.
You have found one of the finer amps in life, keep it!
If there's one thing I've learned that's not to sell the right equipment, just save up the money if you need anything. That way you can have as many things as you want without having to get rid of the good stuff, and then only ever have good stuff! without the bad stuff.
It's a win win situation.
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ahh i see i remember reading about the Sovereign somewhere! very nice.
and yer, versatility in general definitely seems to be the name of game with the ENGLs in general.
and wow! all mids.... VERY interesting choice! im actually gonna make sure i try that first thing tomorrow... ive been starting to gradually increase more mids in my own sound actually... im not one of these "Bass and Treble full.... scoop the mids down to nothing" kinda guys at all...
and its also interesting you should mention using a c--ked-wah for a different sound- a mate of mine is considering buying a wah-pedal for pretty much that purpose alone. messing about with my PODs different wah-settings can really make some cool sounds so makes sense that the real thing would be just as useful.
and finally- i totally agree with you on the thing about the ENGL kinda letting you just 'relax into your playing' sort of thing...
i havent owned many amps.... 3 or 4 maybe... tried a LOT more though... and the ENGL out of all of them definitely achieves this best, matched only by the Orange i tried maybe...
a great kind of 'plug-n-play' feel... and like you said- lets the guitars sound shine through well also.
basically, in general- ENGL seem like a damn good brand!
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sambo, you and MDV are making the good point about working at the amp tone, as there's subtle interplay between many a knob on the Engls.( My old Marshall JTM as I remember did not have a middle, so the presence of one on the Engl has been a welcome change!)
I'd better qualify that my Engl is the Sovereign112 combo and I use the extension cab for larger venues(actually hardly ever as it happens at the mo); yes, it has bags of treble in reserve and I am very sparing with presence, though again the controls are deceptively subtle in their interplay. What with 2 master volumes as well as "soft" and "heavy" lead, there are differing tonal colours available depending on pre- and -post amping too.
As regards your enquiry about settings, well, I'm a middly sorty of chap for single note work: I keep bass, treble and presence all at zero(honestly there's enough inherently there) and middle at full on. The soft lead setting and lead volume I push hard, so as to have the beginnings of that compressed saturation at the pre-stage...as you can imagine, this succeeds in a fizz-free zone. Also, to be honest, what with the channel switching and the guitar's tone+vol, there's enough ready tonal width without adding anything else on the floor. If I want more, I just engage a wah c--ked in the bass position for more fruitiness, relying totally on the amp alone for overdrive. IF(hardly ever) I need to go into "triple rectal" pseudo-mode, I can flip into the amp's Heavy Lead setting, slide up the gain pot on the wah, and yowl like a tw@t. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an Engl fanboy but confess to being thoroughly thankful it's the type of amp that allows my guitars to speak with their natural voice: I found I was always trying to wrestle my Marshall into compromising compliance rather than relax into my playing.
you might like this! the Keeley Java Boost has an incredible mid range booster sound, it'll RIP you face off! PDT_045
http://www.javaboost.com/
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I'm glad you didnt go for the Marshall TSL! I used to own the one, they SUCK.
You have found one of the finer amps in life, keep it!
If there's one thing I've learned that's not to sell the right equipment, just save up the money if you need anything. That way you can have as many things as you want without having to get rid of the good stuff, and then only ever have good stuff! without the bad stuff.
It's a win win situation.
cheers! and yer i've heard a lottt about the TSLs... :roll: there's very mixed opinions on them it seems.
and i will definitely do exactly as you say mate! this ENGL is going nowhere for a good while...
can be hard though... its tempting to just flog a load of stuff to get the next new bit of gear that bit quicker... especially when your 15!!!
thanks again for the advice!
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sambo, you and MDV are making the good point about working at the amp tone, as there's subtle interplay between many a knob on the Engls.( My old Marshall JTM as I remember did not have a middle, so the presence of one on the Engl has been a welcome change!)
I'd better qualify that my Engl is the Sovereign112 combo and I use the extension cab for larger venues(actually hardly ever as it happens at the mo); yes, it has bags of treble in reserve and I am very sparing with presence, though again the controls are deceptively subtle in their interplay. What with 2 master volumes as well as "soft" and "heavy" lead, there are differing tonal colours available depending on pre- and -post amping too.
As regards your enquiry about settings, well, I'm a middly sorty of chap for single note work: I keep bass, treble and presence all at zero(honestly there's enough inherently there) and middle at full on. The soft lead setting and lead volume I push hard, so as to have the beginnings of that compressed saturation at the pre-stage...as you can imagine, this succeeds in a fizz-free zone. Also, to be honest, what with the channel switching and the guitar's tone+vol, there's enough ready tonal width without adding anything else on the floor. If I want more, I just engage a wah c--ked in the bass position for more fruitiness, relying totally on the amp alone for overdrive. IF(hardly ever) I need to go into "triple rectal" pseudo-mode, I can flip into the amp's Heavy Lead setting, slide up the gain pot on the wah, and yowl like a tw@t. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an Engl fanboy but confess to being thoroughly thankful it's the type of amp that allows my guitars to speak with their natural voice: I found I was always trying to wrestle my Marshall into compromising compliance rather than relax into my playing.
you might like this! the Keeley Java Boost has an incredible mid range booster sound, it'll RIP you face off! PDT_045
http://www.javaboost.com/
i remember someone on here mentioning them a while ago!!!
look great... not cheap though...
just how usable is it? :lol:
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awesome! does it have a vintage 30 in it? I tried a screamer yesterday, with the engl 2x12 upright cab, and that really improved the tone over what I remember the screamer sounding like last time I tried it.
That being said, I suppose it could have been the v60 cab... i didn't actually check! sounded like v30's to me, though- unless the v60 sounds similar.
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ah you can get vertical cabs for them? oh actually yer i think i remember Nick having one... ?
awesome... might have to check one out.
and can someone clear this up for me, lol, cause i know SH*T all about speakers...
a G12 isn't a V30 is it? or am i being an idiot?
cause it's a Celestion G12..... ? :oops:
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:lol: no i wouldn't think so.
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:lol:
well i started thinking... 'what if it's a G12 V30?!?!???!!' :lol:
i feel so ashamed :oops: :lol:
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:lol: no i wouldn't think so.
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/products/classic/detail.asp?ID=4
(you might want to look at the writing on the speaker in that pic... :lol: )
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LOL! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
to quote myself:
"well i started thinking... 'what if it's a G12 V30?!?!???!!'"
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :lol:
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:lol:
far as I'm aware, the older screamers had 70/80's (also on the celestion site) and the newer ones have vintage 30's. should be pretty easy to determine which you have...
:drink:
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i havent looked properly but from a glance it looked almost identical to the one in the picture you posted... so im guessing its a V30..
whats the difference betwee the new/old speakers sound-wise then?
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http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/products/originals/detail.asp?ID=15
well, that's what the 70/80 looks like, according to the website.
vintage 30's are better speakers, basically. IMO, anyway.
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ahhh i see
and yer it's definately a V30 then. swish.
now might thinking about a cab of some sort.... hmmmmmm
is it best to go with extension cabs from the same manufacturer as the amp or does it not make that much of a difference?
i feel so stupid cause i've never bothered looking into cabs/speakers e.t.c. :lol:
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^ i'd just make do with the stock speaker for the time being, to be honest.
The screamers that I tried that I wasn't overly impressed with had 70/80's, I'm almost sure.
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ahhh i see, fair enough.
i cant wait to gig with it now cause im fed up of not having a listenable tone for our songs... i know a lot of the audience wont exactly be tone-snobs but i hate not sounding how i want to sound.
hmm i wonder if it's loud enough for gigging though....
:lol:
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80W it is. Celestion somethingorother (not a G12 or V30, tough I think they did have one of them once upon a time).
And its LOUD.
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i got the hugely heavy and metal oversized footpedal included with my Screamer when i bough it..... its now living with Telboy :)
good choice Sambo :D
Yep - well.. not exactly...as Christmas has now passed it's living with my son :( . (I have been thoroughly 'testing' it for the past few weeks :D ).Great amp ... ****ing heavy both in weight and tone - courier nearly collapsed when he delivered it. Footswitch, like the amp itself is typically German engineered - very robust and strong.
Some excellent sounds in there but if you intend to multi channel switch in a number (which I usually don't) the single EQ controls can be a bit of a nuisance e.g. setting a good clean (lo gain) sound doesn't usually give a particularly convincing crunch (hi gain) sound.
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yer its heavier than my H&K halfstack!!!!! (weight i mean... well tone as well lol)
and mmm i know what you mean about the EQ... it's a bit annoying... but with an EQ pedal and a bit of jumping around with footswitches it's just about solvable.... ish.