Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: sambo on January 07, 2007, 08:17:29 PM
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Just thinking about running my ENGL through a cab... and wanted to try it through my Hughes and Kettners 4x12.... then realised that the ENGL is 50 watts, whereas the cab is 100...
is it ok to use them together?
i should know this but like i said in the other thread i just have no idea when it comes to speakers/cabs e.t.c. as ive never had to deal with them at all.... cheers guys. :oops:
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Yeah it's fine.
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more importantly, make sure the cab's impedance matches that of the amp.
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Sam, basically you need a cab that can more than cope with the power of the amp.In this case you have more than enough- the cab has the capability of handling up to 100w. Not as mind boggling as impedences.
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check, though, that the impedence matches.
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the more wattage in the cab the better!
you don't want to crank the amp and for speakers to suddenly fall to pieces do you?
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cheers guys, yer it makes more sense that the cabs need to be higher wattage than the amp lol.... silly me....
and HTH and beetle- i did exactly as you suggested and made sure about the impedance.
the ENGLs output options almost threw me though... as theres different options for 2x16, 1x16, 2x8, 1x8 and i was almost not sure about where to plug in due to the wording on the back. got it in the end though and sounds fine now.
how about unplugging though?
am i gonna have to turn the amp off before taking out the speaker cable of the cab?
and maverick- does the higher the wattage make a sonic difference? or is it just useful to have a bigger 'buffer zone' between the wattage of the amp+cab to ensure like you said, that it doesnt blow or something....?
cheers again for the replies guys, i dunno what id do without you lot some times. :D
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Hi Sam, yes turn the amp off before unplugging the speaker.
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thanks again mate.
i really must catch up on basic amp stuff, im so far behind its embarassing.
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the more wattage in the cab the better!
you don't want to crank the amp and for speakers to suddenly fall to pieces do you?
you don't want the cab's rating too high, though, or the amp won't push the speakers enough. As happens with my valve junior and 4x12 with vintage 30's.
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i see i see.
so if i was gonna buy a new cab for the ENGL, it would have to be at least 50 watts, but no higher than...... ? a couple of 100?
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^ depends on the speakers, but around about twice the wattage of the amp (for a tube) is about right.
To be fair, my VJ + Laney cab is about as extreme a mismatch as you're going to get- 5 watt amp, 240 watt cab, lol.
But yeah, something around 100- 200 watts for the cab should be fine. I dare say you'd even get away with a vintage-30 loaded 4x12 (240 watts mono). Problem is, valves can put out more than their rated wattage when pushed (up to about twice as much, so I hear), which is why you want the cab rated higher than the amp's nominal rating.
I think. :lol:
EDIT: you won't do any harm if it's too high, it just won't sound as good.
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haha!... yer i did wonder whether valve/solid state would make a difference.
right ok, so i'll be needing (probably) a 100w or so cab.
got any recommendations btw dave? yours is a TT isnt it? or is that me being a fool as usual?
cheers
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^ depends on the speakers, but around about twice the wattage of the amp (for a tube) is about right.
To be fair, my VJ + Laney cab is about as extreme a mismatch as you're going to get- 5 watt amp, 240 watt cab, lol.
But yeah, something around 100- 200 watts for the cab should be fine. I dare say you'd even get away with a vintage-30 loaded 4x12 (240 watts mono). Problem is, valves can put out more than their rated wattage when pushed (up to about twice as much, so I hear), which is why you want the cab rated higher than the amp's nominal rating.
I think. :lol:
EDIT: you won't do any harm if it's too high, it just won't sound as good.
Hmmm.. using my Laney with a 60w cab.. it sounds fine so far but would I damage it? I dont ever crank it all the way up though I guess..
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it's not just a matter of wattage either - depending on what speakers are in the cab you will get different tonal results.
a 100w Marshall 4x12 with Greenback (G12Ms) will give you that old school tone with some compression in the mids and that cone-cry with the amp cranked.
next step up is a Marshall 4x12 with G12H-30s... these are similar to the Greenbacks but with a tighter overall 'feel'. These are my favourite rock speaker. you'll probably have to special order a cab from Marshall with these speakers in.
you've then got 4x12s with V30s or G12T-75s... the V30-loaded cabs are great for modern metal whereas the G12T-75s-loaded cabs are better for 80s metal. I would pick neither of these for classic rock tones.
:twisted:
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How about a mix of a G12H and a V30? I'm looking for another speaker to go with the G12H in my 2x12 and was thinking a V30 after hearing loads of great tones from em.
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cheers HTH.
so what about like Tom suggested- mixing speakers?
say, a 4x12 with 2 V30s and 2G12Hs???
and how easy is it to install/remove speakers if i were to buy a cab for the sole purpose of putting in new ones?
thanks again mate.
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Hmmm.. using my Laney with a 60w cab.. it sounds fine so far but would I damage it? I dont ever crank it all the way up though I guess..
you're probably grand, celestion over-rate, as far as I know. also, not cranking it wouldn't hurt.
it's not just a matter of wattage either - depending on what speakers are in the cab you will get different tonal results.
+1
haha!... yer i did wonder whether valve/solid state would make a difference.
right ok, so i'll be needing (probably) a 100w or so cab.
got any recommendations btw dave? yours is a TT isnt it? or is that me being a fool as usual?
cheers
Yeah, i have a tt, but it's only available as a 4x12.
Framus do what looks to be a nice 2x12, on www.thomann.de for £197, or just under 300 euro. They have free postage to the UK on anything over 300 euro, so just buy like a packet of strings or something as well.
I haven't tried this cab, unfortunately, but it's loaded with vintage 30's and framus are, as far as I know, a pretty good brand. It's worth a look at least, though if you can try it that's obviously better.
of course, if you want a 4x12... there are a few framus 4x12's on thomann too, which I guess are worth a look, as well as the laney tt, and marshalls.
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yer i remember seeing them a while back actually
seriously considering one in the future.
2x12 would probably serve me better as well just for the portability factor.
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^ i guess the only thing is, your combo already has the v30... a 4x12 may make a bigger difference to the tone (though it'll be really big, loud and heavy)...
it's really up to you.
or it might be an idea to look at different speakers since you already have the v30- though that ups the cost...
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mmm true.
the G12Hs seem close to my needs (from the Celestion range anyway), so maybe they could be worth looking at. I probably need to go and try a load of cabs now :lol:
is it worth spending a load of money on the speakers though? is it a worht-while investment?
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^ it is and it isn't. If the only thing stopping you from getting the tone you want in your head is the speakers, then it's worth it!
Don't forget eminence and Weber speakers as well (and jensen, but they're more aimed at Fendery tones, as far as I know), celestion aren't the only guys!
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hmmm fair enough fair enough. Trying the ENGL through my H&K 4x12 sounded nasty... much too fizzy... but it made me see how much a cab can enhance the sound, with the right speakers of course.
and yer i need to look into the various brands e.t.c. as i said before i really have NO idea speaker/cab wise.
cheers.
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^ yeah. the problem is, it's a bit like trying pickups. There are about 4 speakers that every single company (near enough) uses for every single one of their cabs. It's quite a lottery, unfortunately.
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ah i see what you mean. mmm.
what about the actual cab itself then? does that play an important or not?
it obviously must make some difference but what i mean is if i were to buy a cab of the right size and shape to experiment with different speaker combinations, would i have to take into consideration the materials/construction of the cab as well?
theres so many things to change in the world of guitars!!!!!! AGG! :x :evil:
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ah i see what you mean. mmm.
what about the actual cab itself then? does that play an important or not?
it obviously must make some difference but what i mean is if i were to buy a cab of the right size and shape to experiment with different speaker combinations, would i have to take into consideration the materials/construction of the cab as well?
theres so many things to change in the world of guitars!!!!!! AGG! :x :evil:
yeah, the cab construction is extremely important too.
I guess as an (extremely basic) analogy, the speakers are a bit like pickups, while the cab is a bit like the guitar you're putting the pickup into.
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the cab certainly makes a difference - some people even like the tone of straight cabs over slanted ones claiming that the bass end is slightly more solid.
for my money, Marshall 4x12s are tried and tested - you really can't go wrong.
a pair of G12H-30s and V30s would certainly be a tasty pairing - nice and raunchy.
I've currently using a 4x12 with two V30-alikes (by HH) and two old G12Ms (25w). this is a really cool setup too - I'm a sucker for old Greenbacks, I like the smoother mids.
As for portability - PAH!!! worry about that when you're old, I'm 31 and a 4x12 is a pain in the ass to carry around, but the tone is godly. life is too short for bad tone ;)
:twisted:
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the cab certainly makes a difference - some people even like the tone of straight cabs over slanted ones claiming that the bass end is slightly more solid.
:o ! thats verging on obsessive in my opinion... lol...
and yer i guess i should f*ck convenience and portability and just get a big mean looking, and 4x12 shouldnt i.... :lol: :twisted:
im gonna start looking up marshall 4x12s now actually, cheers for the recommendation.
and that set-up of yours sounds niice- what kind of stuff do you play through it? heavy-ness of some kind im guessing... ? lol
cheers.
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and bugger i didnt realise the cab was that important dave. hmmm
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FWIW, i don't think marshall cabs match engls all that well, to be honest. In my opinion.
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i see.
well that would make sense (from my VERRRRRYYYYYY limited knowledge of amps in general, ENGLs, Marshalls, and speakers...).... because Marshall amps are supposed to have strong mids... whereas the Screamer (as i agreed with MDV i think it was)... lack a bit of push in the mids...
so it doesnt necessarily seem like a match made in heaven...
(could be TOTALLY wrong on all of the above though)...
what would you recommend then Dave?
something more similar to the TT? A G-flex maybe?
cheers.
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^ I'm not too well up on cabs either, to be honest- I just know that as far as I was concerned, the Marshall cabs didn't sound all that great with the engls I tried. Now, to be honest, I'm not sure if they were the vintage-30 loaded Marshall cabs or not, but the ones I tried definitely sounded a little "flat" or something. Just wasn't a good match, IMO (though my idea of good tone could be vastly different to yours).
The engl vintage-30 loaded cabs sound great with engls (obviously enough), but the 2x12 is about £400- you could get my laney 4x12 or th framus one for the same price or less. And the engl vintage 4x12 is about £600.
I'm a bit wary of giving recommendations based on the few cabs that I have tried engls with, to be honest- I'd just be wary of Marshall cabs unless you can somehow get to try a screamer with a Marshall cab and like it.
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cool, cheers mate.
thats what im gonna have to do next- go to a shop(s) that has both a screamer and some sort of selection of cabs.
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^ yup.
:drink: