Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: sambo on January 08, 2007, 12:09:39 AM
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just put my laney, H&K, and ESP on ebay, which may be followed by the POD as well in a few days. after ive got the cash from all this, ill be on the lookout for a new guitar. (or at least that was the plan anyway)
but now, after really thinking about what it is i want, im not so sure thats a good option for me.
In my band i play pretty much all rhythm parts, ranging from total clean through to classic rock semi-crunch to all out hard-rock metal. And whilst my p-90 is doing great for half the stuff, the slightly heavier material is just lacking that little bit of punch, and ive been on the look out for a humbucker-equipped guitar for aaages now. So i thought id look for a new axe in the £300-400+ with the intention of BKP-ing it in the future.
However; Im so used to playing my Gibson that i hate playing other peoples guitars, even my mates brand spanking new USA fender strat, (which i admit plays wonderfully), just doesnt seem right to me. So im just not sure whether a new guitar is what i really need/want. Another reason for this is that I dont like switching between guitars a lot, and really dont want to be having to re-adjust from a Gibson--> 2nd guitar in the middle of gigs. (i realise this may be odd but thats just me).
AND ive never desired to be able to switch between neck+bridge pickups at all really.
SO- getting a 2nd guitar and fitting it with BKPs would be a waste of money really (as id likely end up just playing one of the guitars and one of the pickups for pretty much all of the time)... but the catch is... i NEED a h/b.... i really do need that little bit extra as im craving it when playing other peoples axes. so my idea was- instead of spending the cash on an entirely new guitar, why not pay a luthier to route another pickup into my Gibson and BKP it. Therefore being able to have all the P-90 sounds im using at the moment, as well as all the h/b tone i would ever need, in the same guitar that im used to and love.
stupid idea?
ANY thoughts much appreciated.
cheers in advance.
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^ you're thinking of putting a humbucker in the neck? bear in mind that'll sound different to a bridge humbucker...
alternatively, you could get a £300-£400 guitar that's similar in style and feel to yours... Gordon Smith GS1's are pretty nice... the single humbucker, natural-finished versions are about £400...
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yer that was one of the issues that came to mind. could a BK not be compensated (similarly to how Tim solves the covered/non-covered situation) to sound similar to a bridge humbucker? or is that just not possible?
and yer thats true. ive looked a tiny bit a GS's but not much. Is that theyre retail price your talking about?
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^ think so, you can get a gs1 for about £394, far as I'm aware.
i'm sure tim could sompensate a bit, but at the end of the day it'll probably still sound like a neck pickup.
best bet is to try a few guitars with neck pickups to see what you think of them- a few gibbos or gordon smiths. The yamaha aes620 and washburn wi65/66 pro idols are nice too. EDIT: all in a vaguely similar style to yours.
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right, ill look into the GS's a bit more soon then.
and yer thats probably the likelihood.
ive always liked the look of the AES series... so ill check them out a bit more as well.
mmm its a tough one. Id just love to be able to have everything i need in the one package really, but i guess that might be asking too much.
What do Gordon Smiths play like, and do you know where you can try them in the UK?
cheers as always dave.
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Sambo, you can get SG juniors (the ones with P90s in both positions) for £600 - why not upgrade your existing guitar and get something 'better' rather than sink money into a guitar that's never gonna get you your investment back if you ever sell it.
Just a thought - routing the guitar and fitting another p/up aint gonna be cheap.
:twisted:
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damn why did i never think of that? excellent idea mate.
i cant believe i hadnt ever considered that!!! agh!
and yer i guessed it would be an expensive job, but then surely no more than an entire new guitar? or would it?
also, what do the SG Juniors play like? Just how similar are they feel-wise to a standard SG?
cheers.
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right, ill look into the GS's a bit more soon then.
and yer thats probably the likelihood.
ive always liked the look of the AES series... so ill check them out a bit more as well.
mmm its a tough one. Id just love to be able to have everything i need in the one package really, but i guess that might be asking too much.
What do Gordon Smiths play like, and do you know where you can try them in the UK?
cheers as always dave.
Gordon Smiths are very, very nice. To tell the truth, I prefer them to Gibson (though they use Cedar instead of Gibson's mahogany, so they don't sound exactly the same). The finishes aren't always just as nice as the Gibsons, but the playability/tone is at least as good, IMO, and they're normally quite a bit cheaper- you can get something similar in quality (at least) to a studio for about £500.
You'd need to try it, though, just in case you hate it.
I tried several in Denmark Street, there's a dealer there- there's a list of dealers on the Gordon Smith website, too. http://www.fairplay.demon.co.uk/
You'd ideally want to try them head to head with Gibbos, of course- and those other ones I suggested too. Another nice touch is that if you order one direct from them, they'll subtract the cost of their pickups, which basically amounts to you getting BKP's half-price (depending on model), and fitted too- though that would most likely involve a wait of at least 4 months.
At the end of the day, though, it's all down to what you like best- with you being used to Gibbos, you may still like them better. Doesn't hurt to try, though!
:drink:
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also, what do the SG Juniors play like? Just how similar are they feel-wise to a standard SG?
The SG Classic (which is the one with 2 P-90s, I'm being pedantic again :roll: :oops: ) feels exactly the same as a current SG Standard. I think the neck is a little thicker than your Melody Maker, which has the slim-taper neck. Better get one quick though, I think they're going out of production.
You're still left with your original problem of wanting a humbucker though, unless you swap one of the P-90s which, again, would mean routing the guitar.
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thanks for the info dave, they sound tempting, and the whole pickup thing seems useful.
and Philly- yup your dead right. unless of course i 'solved' the h/b thing by just getting a pig-90 or similarly higher output p-90... but then it still wouldnt really be the same as a h/b so i would still (as you say) need the guitar routing....
AND i pretty much despise SGs playing-wise... i just dont get on with them at all....
Gordon Smiths are looking more and more appealing.
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^thanks for the tip-off about the SG btw Philly.
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No problem! Actually, I thought the SG Classic had been discontinued a while ago but I've seen a couple around recently.
AND i pretty much despise SGs playing-wise... i just dont get on with them at all....
Surprised by that! Since you play a MM I'd have thought the SG would feel OK. Is it the neck shape, or the way the guitar balances? A lot of people moan about SGs being neck-heavy, but they're so lightweight overall I've never found it a problem, in fact I actually like the way they balance on a strap. I love my SGs! :D
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yup its to do with the neck and the overall balance. it also feels to me like the angle of the neck is quite odd... but then thats just my strange taste/hands i guess... lol
personal preference of course!
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Sambo - I'd go for a Gordon Smith. Cheaper than the equivalent Gibson and they have the Gibson 60s Slim Taper neck (or a very close relation). The new low end Gibsons I've played recently had the clubby '59 profile neck. Fine if you like that sort of thing, but I don't.
If I was having a custom guitar built, I'd have the neck on my GS-1 copied it's that good.
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I've got an old (mid-80s) GS-1 and the neck is like a toothpick, but I think they've beefed them up a bit since then.
Gordon Smiths are certainly good value-for-money guitars, I'd probably have owned more if they let you specify a thicker neck. :wink:
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customising a melody maker with a big humbucker would certinally be a very 1980s punk thing to do :)
if it was me, i guess i'd try a tapped Pig90 first, as you pointed too. ok, its not a humbucker tone, but its cheap and easy and would certinally make a big difference.
or if i loved the melody maker so much, i'd get another and mod it.
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What SGs have you played? I find them pretty much the same to play as a '50s profile Les Paul, which is what I'm assuming your MM is (and the neck angle is pretty much identical :? ).
What EXACTLY is it about your MM that you like so much? Do you like a genreous palm filling neck? Is it the fingerboard radius? Is it that you like the tension of the tune-a-matic?
If you like all 3, then maybe a Korean Tokai could be you, if it's a sizeable neck then you can get a really good deal on a Tremonti SE which makes a decent enough platform for pimping, if you like the radius and tune-a-matic, Dean and Washburn do great guitars for the money. Get out there and play some stuff and work out what it is you really want. You really should reconsider the SG, as you should be able to get a second hand SG special for your sort of money.
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thanks for all the replies guys. all really helpful.
and yer i remember asking about a pig90 once... not sure how well theyd cope with the less-heavy stuff though? i have no idea.
gwEm have you ever used one/had any experience of one yourself?
and Ben thanks for the recommendations. as for what i like about the MM... well everything you mentioned really. Looking on the Gibson website, the MM has a 60s slim-taper neck whereas the SG special (is that the one in question? :oops: ) has a 'rounded' neck. also, again from their site, the neck join is at the 19 fret on the SG whereas its at 16 on the les paul... which could explain why i felt the neck weird... (although your probably right about angle... dunno what i was really thinking when i said that... :oops: )
just my odd personal taste i guess....
and as i said before- thanks for the recommendations... I've never tried many dean or washburns, or really considered them for what i want at the moment, so i'll definitely look into them now. and i love my mates Tokai so thats another one to check out.
and its interesting you should mention the Tremonti as when i originally bought the MM, i tried loads of guitars and it came down to those two. Took me ages to decide and i kept switching back and forth, but in the end it was just the fact that the Gibson was more unusual, less 'common', than the PRS which swung it for me. and i hadnt even thought about looking in to one again... which i will now do... so thanks again.
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the Gibson 60s Slim Taper neck (or a very close relation).
thats another point in the GS's favour then... they look almost ideal for my needs really... cheers for that.
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Hi Sambo,
You already know my opinion of putting a second pickup into Juniors/MM's!!
I have to tell you that I would go for the Gordon Smith. They are really good guitars (as well as being nice guys too). With the option to fit your own BK pickups, I think that it would be the best way to go.
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i see i see...
definitely seems like they could be the way to go then.
only thing is... if i were to get one... id have to wait about 4-5 months wouldnt i?
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Unless you buy used and save a few quid ;)
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^ Or unless you buy one that's already in stock at a shop. You'd lose the cost of the Gordon Smith pickups, but you'd get it a lot sooner, and also would be able to play with the stock pickups for a while to decide what you wanted the BKP's to do for you.
That shop in London (Musicgorund?) had about 10 in stock (not all the model you're after) when I was there- though Denmark street is rarely the cheapest place to buy gear. Maybe they'd come down though if you pointed out what they were "meant" to go for.
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Unless you buy used and save a few quid ;)
indeed.... fancy selling me yours? :lol:
and yer that was my worry Dave... not just losing the ability to swap out the stock pups... but if i ordered it straight from the company id be able to specify every detail that i wanted from their options... like getting it without the scratchplate (if thats possible...?)... and specificying which neck i wanted as apparently they offer a few different types...
i guess it wouldnt be THAT much of a sacrifice to just get one from a shop or used.... but it would be nice to have precisely what i was after... hmm
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my guess is try the one in the shop- you may like it enough to buy it, lol. And if you don't, you can tell them what to change about it.
they will let you customise it a bit if you order, but you can't specify like a completely new shape or anything. I'd guess you could specify no pickguard, though.
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... but if i ordered it straight from the company id be able to specify every detail that i wanted from their options... like getting it without the scratchplate (if thats possible...?)... and specificying which neck i wanted as apparently they offer a few different types...
I don't think you can specify neck shapes, but you can choose a one-piece maple neck instead of rosewood-on-mahogany. I guess if you were having a guitar built from scratch they might do a slightly different neck shape if you requested it.
They do have quite a lot of options though, including single or double cutaway at no extra charge. And you can supply your own hardware as well as pickups, which is very cool. There isn't a no-scratchplate option but I'm sure they wouldn't mind leaving it off since it saves them money! :D
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lol, yer id want to try one most definitely.
if its supposed to have a neck similar to a 60s slim taper though, and its a flat-bodied single-cutaway.... it has to be faaaairly similar in playability to the Gibson...
and yer there wouldnt be much i would want to change really... just the fine details that it lets you specify on their site... i doubt it would bother me that much not being able to choose... but it would be cool to.
cheers.
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Nice try Sambo - I'm not selling either of mine ;)
The only option with necks is wood type I think? Mahogany or cedar are the only choices I believe.
You don't need options anyway - choose a body shape you like from their range, and whether you need 2 pickups or 1. Job done!
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:lol: :D
fair enough, i guess im just being picky...
having thought about everything a lot last night and today a GS-1 single cutaway seems perfect for what i need... dont care about colour/finish just want to find the cheapest one possible :lol:
dont mind buying used either... if anyone has seen one for sale anywhere on the off-chance...?
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just to add- Gordon Smith frequently have sales on, if you click on the accessories bit of the website ( http://www.fairplay.demon.co.uk/ ), there are guitars where there's a little scratch or something like that- you can frequently save around £100.
Again, that might be academic, because the amount you'd save by ordering one and switching pickups would be, yep, around £95, but you would be able to get it now. And it'd have less use on it than a second-hand example. You are a bit tied down by what's available, though- but I guess it's worth a mouse click, lol.
:lol: :D
fair enough, i guess im just being picky...
having thought about everything a lot last night and today a GS-1 single cutaway seems perfect for what i need... dont care about colour/finish just want to find the cheapest one possible :lol:
dont mind buying used either... if anyone has seen one for sale anywhere on the off-chance...?
they had gs1's in London last time I was there, but that was about 6 months ago. If you're only trying, my guess is that Denmark street probably has the best choice (I may be wrong though, you always seem to find amazing guitar shops out in the middle of nowhere for some reason!), I'm not sure if I'd go there to buy, though.
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There where 3 new GS's in Denmark St just before Xmas, and they had a couple of used as well. A friend in the office reckons that his GS was the best guitar he ever owned (or played).
Another option if you want mahogany is the Faded DC it's got twin 90s in place and feel closer to a LP than a SG.
Rob...
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cheers rob and Dave...
im gonna keep an eye out on their site from now until i get the cash. thanks for the link.
and Rob, yer i remember seeing them in soundcontrol once... think i might have tried one, cant quite remember...
very nice though... although the lack of a humbucker is still perhaps a little annoying.
london seems like the place to go to try one then i guess... doesnt seem to be any in Coda/Machinehead e.t.c....
hmm.
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I have a custom ordered GS Graduate 60 and love it.
GS guitars can regularly be found on Ebay for a few hundred quid, so you could look out for a GS1 and add a humbucker and you'd be sorted :)