Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Sailor Charon on January 12, 2007, 10:17:25 PM

Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 12, 2007, 10:17:25 PM
I'm currently saving up for a custom guitar.
The plan is for a Les Paul DC style guitar: maple set neck, ebony fretboard, swamp ash body, walnut cap and either 3 individually coil tappable humbuckers or 3 P90s.

I'm mainly into things like Rainbow, Deep  Purple, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, and was wondering what sort of pickups folks would suggest.

BTW, thanks for the advice before. They sound great through my valve amp. (My practice amp really is not as good as I thought though...)
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: maverickf1jockey on January 13, 2007, 06:45:40 AM
with a bit of tweaking the Nailbomb should do the trick...
or, if you really like the tone of Iommi, i suggest Warpig.
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: BloodMountain on January 13, 2007, 09:28:52 AM
^ +1

but i would have thought that a pickup that has a sound that was designed for that time in music would be better, like the holy diver or something.
any thoughts?
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 13, 2007, 10:43:24 AM
Thanks, folks. I was considering Warpigs, but I thought I'd get some other opinions...
I had another one of my daft ideas after I posted it. (I read some comments about the difference between coil-split humbuckers and strat style single coils - it's the magnets apparantly.)  What do you folks think about paired (say) Trinity Suites (obviously one reverse polarity, or whatever so that they act as a coil-splittable humbucker).
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: maverickf1jockey on January 13, 2007, 11:12:45 AM
how do you feel about doing it with ceramic Pig-90s?
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: gingataff on January 13, 2007, 12:05:22 PM
I'd probably go for H-P90-H, maybe a Mule or Rebel Yell set with a Mississippi Queen as the meat in the sandwich :wink:
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Philly Q on January 13, 2007, 12:24:04 PM
Quote from: Sailor Charon
What do you folks think about paired (say) Trinity Suites (obviously one reverse polarity, or whatever so that they act as a coil-splittable humbucker).

Just as a split humbucker never really sounds like a single-coil, two single-coils in series never really sound like a conventional humbucker.  It's those magnets again - instead of one bar magnet and 12 steel polepieces, you have 12 individual rod magnets with their own magnetic fields.

I used to own a Yamaha Pacifica 604 which had 4 single-coils, 2 of them wired as a bridge bucker.  I can't remember exactly what it sounded like, but it was more like a thick woolly SC than a "normal" HB sound.  It was great in split mode though.  :wink:

I think maverickf1jockey's idea of wiring 2 P-90s as a humbucker actually might work better, because the magnetic structure of a P-90 is more like a HB than a conventional SC.  It would sound huge though, not something you'd use every day.  Not for 70s hard rock anyway.

Are you a Scorpions fan by any chance, Sailor Charon?
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: BloodMountain on January 13, 2007, 12:24:19 PM
rebel yell isn't really an old school metal humbucker (led zep, black sabbath, deep purple, etc.) is it?

i agree with mississipi queen for the middle.
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Philly Q on January 13, 2007, 12:31:56 PM
Quote from: BLOODMOUNTAIN
rebel yell isn't really an old school metal humbucker (led zep, black sabbath, deep purple, etc.) is it?

i agree with mississipi queen for the middle.

+1, I agree about the RY.

With all that maple, ebony, swamp ash and walnut (are you sure you want to hide that lovely ash grain under walnut?) the guitar should be pretty bright.  For 70s/80s sounds you could probably get away with Painkillers, Cold Sweats, Holy Divers, Crawlers, Mules - just about anything, really, depending on how much output you want.
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 13, 2007, 02:25:14 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
I think maverickf1jockey's idea of wiring 2 P-90s as a humbucker actually might work better, because the magnetic structure of a P-90 is more like a HB than a conventional SC.  It would sound huge though, not something you'd use every day.  Not for 70s hard rock anyway.

Are you a Scorpions fan by any chance, Sailor Charon?

Y'know I considered using P90s, but when I asked on another board the response I got was along the lines of 'Are you mad?' :)

No, I'm not a Scorpions fan, not especially anyway. Why d'you ask?
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 13, 2007, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
With all that maple, ebony, swamp ash and walnut (are you sure you want to hide that lovely ash grain under walnut?) the guitar should be pretty bright.  For 70s/80s sounds you could probably get away with Painkillers, Cold Sweats, Holy Divers, Crawlers, Mules - just about anything, really, depending on how much output you want.


Well, it's just with it being that shape, really. I thought that a Les Paul-alike should have a cap on it... The alternative was an SG-alike (I like the shape, I like the Les Paul DC shape too, but the weight... :) ) without the cap.

As for the output, as long as it isn't too too much...  :)
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Philly Q on January 13, 2007, 02:40:17 PM
Quote from: Sailor Charon
No, I'm not a Scorpions fan, not especially anyway. Why d'you ask?

The Sails of Charon is a track on Scorpions' Taken By Force album, featuring some awesome guitar work from Ulrich Roth.  I thought with you being into 70s Euro hard rock...

That was inspired by the Greek myth of Charon, who ferried the souls of the dead across the River Acheron to Hades.

Is it also some kind of anime character?  That's something I know next-to-nothing about, I'm afraid.  :oops:
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 13, 2007, 03:21:24 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
Quote from: Sailor Charon
No, I'm not a Scorpions fan, not especially anyway. Why d'you ask?

The Sails of Charon is a track on Scorpions' Taken By Force album, featuring some awesome guitar work from Ulrich Roth.  I thought with you being into 70s Euro hard rock...

That was inspired by the Greek myth of Charon, who ferried the souls of the dead across the River Acheron to Hades.

Is it also some kind of anime character?  That's something I know next-to-nothing about, I'm afraid.  :oops:

Ah...  I think I'll have to check that out.
It's not really an anime reference, except in a sort of roundabout way to Sailor Moon... :) [Charon also being the moon of Pluto - which is mixing mythologies but never mind]
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: zigmund on January 13, 2007, 03:34:17 PM
aka the River Styx...an oft-alluded-to image in rockography: cf, Who Pays The Ferryman, etc;
...Brian Ferry...
..Ferry Cross the Murky...
These last 2 are merely meaningless adjuncts to provide inter-postal levity.
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Philly Q on January 13, 2007, 04:01:06 PM
Quote from: zigmund
aka the River Styx...an oft-alluded-to image in rockography

That's what I thought too, but I learned this today:

In Greek mythology, Styx (Στυξ) is a river which formed the boundary between Earth and the Underworld, Hades. It circles Hades nine times. The rivers Styx, Phlegethon, Acheron and Cocytus all converge at the center of Hades on a great marsh. The other important rivers of Hades are Lethe and Eridanos.

The ferryman Charon is in modern times commonly believed to have transported the souls of the newly dead across this river into the underworld, though in the original Greek and Roman sources, as well as in Dante, it was the river Acheron that Charon plied. Dante put Phlegyas over the Styx and made it the fifth circle of Hell, where the wrathful and sullen are punished by being perpetually drowned in the muddy waters.

...It is often said that he [Charon] ferried souls across the river Styx. This is suggested by Virgil in his Aeneid (book 6, line 369). However, by most accounts, including Pausanias and, later, Dante's Inferno, it was the swamps of the river Acheron.


Quote from: Sailor Charon
It's not really an anime reference, except in a sort of roundabout way to Sailor Moon...

I don't know Sailor Moon, I'm very old.  But I do remember Button Moon:

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/phillyq/button-moon-characters.jpg)

We're off to Button Moon, we'll follow Mr. Spoon,
Button Moon, Button Moon.
 :band5:



I think this is what they call off-topic... way off-topic.
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: BloodMountain on January 13, 2007, 04:11:32 PM
hahahaha i LOVE button moon!
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 13, 2007, 05:43:16 PM
Button Moon? Ah yes... I remember it well. Presented by Peter Davidson wasn't it?
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Philly Q on January 13, 2007, 06:13:17 PM
Narrated by Robin Parkinson, the theme song was (bizarrely) written and performed by Peter Davison and his wife Sandra Dickinson!

Sorry about that little diversion.  Any more thoughts about your pickups?
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 13, 2007, 07:25:11 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
Sorry about that little diversion.  Any more thoughts about your pickups?

I think the main question is: is it mainly single coils that can be humbucked (is that a word)  or humbuckers that can be split? (that I'm looking for). I'm slightly more inclined to the first option, but then again... Argh.
Definitely 3. Definitely any combination selectable. Almost certainly two coils per pickup, with a 5 way switch for none/coil 1/coil 2/serial/parallel (per pickup). High output, after all, you don't have to use all of it all the time and it's nice to have it if (when?) you do. Fat bottom end, but not lacking bite in the treble. But then again given the woods used that might not be a problem...
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Philly Q on January 13, 2007, 08:25:56 PM
Quote from: Sailor Charon
Definitely 3. Definitely any combination selectable. Almost certainly two coils per pickup, with a 5 way switch for none/coil 1/coil 2/serial/parallel (per pickup).

You want three 5-way switches, one for each pickup?  Well, if you wanted all that "switchability", you'd definitely need humbuckers.  Single-coils are just, well, single coils.  I'm not sure all the options you want there are possible; maybe with rotary switches (like PRS use), although I don't really know much about how those work.  

The problem with really complex wiring is you may have 57 different options but probably only 5 or 6 of them will be really distinct and useable.  And it's confusing!  The Jimmy Page Les Paul has dozens of sounds, but you might have to operate four push-pull pots just to get from one sound to another.

On the other hand, if you go with single-coils, you can combine them with each other in interesting ways.  Maybe you could get 3 P-90s and copy one of those Strat wiring schemes that let you get all the different combinations of the 3 pickups, in series and in parallel.  Or perhaps you could do something like the PRS 513, which uses 5 single-coils and 2 switches to give 13 different sounds.
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 13, 2007, 09:00:21 PM
Quote from: Philly Q
The problem with really complex wiring is you may have 57 different options but probably only 5 or 6 of them will be really distinct and useable.  And it's confusing!  The Jimmy Page Les Paul has dozens of sounds, but you might have to operate four push-pull pots just to get from one sound to another.

On the other hand, if you go with single-coils, you can combine them with each other in interesting ways.  Maybe you could get 3 P-90s and copy one of those Strat wiring schemes that let you get all the different combinations of the 3 pickups, in series and in parallel.  Or perhaps you could do something like the PRS 513, which uses 5 single-coils and 2 switches to give 13 different sounds.


Thanks, I do tend to get carried away at times. [I'm about to try and stitch on 60 count fabric. (Normally it's 28 or 32 count)]
I think I like the trio of P90s approach - it's certainly one I considered  and it seems a lot simpler. Which is probably a good thing :) So, probably Pig90s or ceramic Pig90s then?

[Oh, what's the advantage of coil-tapping on P90s?]
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Philly Q on January 13, 2007, 09:33:40 PM
Quote from: Sailor Charon
Oh, what's the advantage of coil-tapping on P90s?

Tapping a P-90 lets you get 2 different sounds from the same pickup - like a single-coil equivalent of splitting a humbucker or wiring it for series/parallel.  The tap "switches off" some of the pickup's windings so you get a slightly thinner, brighter sound.  So a tapped Pig-90 might sound like a BKP-92 or something (depending on the magnets and where in the coil it was tapped).

I think it would be most useful in a single-pickup guitar like an LP Jr, but it could work on your 3-pickup project too.  

Quote
I'm about to try and stitch on 60 count fabric. (Normally it's 28 or 32 count)

You've lost me there!!  :lol:
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: Sailor Charon on January 13, 2007, 09:59:37 PM
Ah. Thanks for that. I'll have a think about tapping - actually I'll probably ask Tim :)
As for the stuff to do with stitching: 60 count has 60 little holes per inch as opposed to 28 or 32. Which means its a much finer mesh. Which means its much harder to stitch on as it's harder to see the little holes. Anyway, nothing to worry about. Think of it as playing hemi-demi-semi-quavers rather than demi-semi-quavers or else some rediculous number of bpm  :)
Title: Pickup advice please
Post by: zigmund on January 14, 2007, 02:28:09 AM
I sure picked the wrong day to give up LSD.

Stunning, chaps, stunning... :P