Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: LazyNinja on January 14, 2007, 09:28:08 PM
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I bought an original 1979 Marshall JMP MkII 2204 50 watt head :twisted:
Got it from Musicground Leeds yesterday. I went there with the intention of ordering Laney VH100R but I decided to test this amp at the guy's recommendation.
The JMP with an OD pedal sounded so sweet, really has that brown sound completely nailed and it sounded pretty nice at low volumes too but obviously a bit rumbly and fuzzy then. With an OD pedal it sounds like a smoother, sweeter JCM800 but with just as much gain. I much prefered it to two JCM800s and a JCM900 which I also tried that day. I also tried some Hiwatts, THD and also Laney chrome VC combo (i think it's same as VH100R but in combo format). The amp is so responsive to the picking, imo much more so than a GH100L I tried before. Now I know why a lot of guys like single channels.
This is completely in reverse to what I was setting out to get but I'm pretty happy with what I got. I might have been ripped off tho coz I paid 650 for the head, OD pedal and speaker lead. meh oh well at least it sounds fecking awesome. I'm trying to forget how much I paid for it lol. I may still get VH100R some other time, maybe from tax return, but then again Uni in september so might not be such a good idea. Anyways just telling you guys about my new old amp :)
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sounds delicious - I've never tried one mysel,f but now I'd REALLY like to!
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nice score, JMP Marshalls are fi'm awesome - something like an SD1 or TS9 goes great to bump the gain up a notch.
I'd say you paid over the odds for it though, I'd expect it to be MINT for that kind of money.
:twisted:
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Yep, I agree with HTH. That's pretty expensive, even for an expensive dealer ;)
But if it's what you want, you gotta pay the price they want for it!
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Music Ground are complete w**kers, i've been going into that shop since i was about 9 years old.. and they still talk to everyone like shite even repeat customers like myself who've spent in excess of 10k with them..
but they do have a great selections of amps, did you try the 2 JCM800 at Dustys(Northern Guitars) across the road?, I like the guys who own that shop they're fantastic people.
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Yeah I did try the JCM800 at the Northern Guitars. Didn't like it as much as the JMP tho, plus the ones there were all really crackly. I dunno but the fat guy in the Northern guitars were really rude to me he didn't even let me play the amp at volumes past one. I know the old guy with long hair is a nice guy tho.
My JMP I wouldn't say it's mint but a solid 8.5 out of 10 just been serviced and revalved apparently. Cosmetics wise it's perfect no rips or anything just bit faded due to age. I've got one year warranty on it so it should be alright. If it does go I can get them to fix it for me. Maybe I did pay too much it was advertised as 1977 but later I found it was 1979 maybe I could use that to get small refund? Doubt they'll do it tho.
I've been playing some Aerosmith and GnR stuff on it all day yesterday and it sounds awesome :D
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I was in MG on sunday... hmm... well for a tiny short while anyway.
Gotta agree with james, i don't like how people get treated in there.
Seriously up their own arse half of the time, i only buy something from there if no one else has it, i even prefer sound control over that place...
Any chance you spotted a Laney LC15? i'm looking for one... again... or an epiphone valve junior.
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Well, the amp is old and in good state...
I mean if this amp is great in a way that it's even within its its range a comparably top one (like the best 10% amps of that range where all the parts have just the right value within the tolerances they may have) why not pay it.
You could have a new Marshall TSL for that money, or a Peavey 6505 or even a Orange Rocker 30, but they might sound weak in direct comparison.
I salute you, well done. I always wanted a Vintage Marshall and got something with more buttons instead. Probably you did the right thing.
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yea the fat one is called dusty, he's a mardy bugger when he wants to be.. but a great guitarist and more willing to cut you a deal than music ground, if you can get past his slightly grumpy attitude..
but i think music ground are just plain rude.
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I've always found Music Ground to be incredibly expensive, unwilling to deal, and just plain awkward.
There's some nice gear in there, which is usually highly overpriced, and some absolute tat (which is again overpriced).
Scoring an original JMP for £650 sounds like a bargain from them!
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Same amp as me! 8) What overdrive pedal did you use? i have decided my DOD 250 is a bit harsh & am looking for an alternative.
...Oh, and if you think it sounds good at low volume buy a hot plate & then crank the amp - it just doesn't get better!!! :twisted:
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my amp started making rumbly sound at low volumes and the bass note became very buzzy! :x :( that's only after about 8 hours of playing!
Just been serviced my arse!!!!!!!!!
I think it might be a good idea to take it back so that it can get fixed or I could get something else. I might just hold on til this weekend when I have a band practice and see if the problem still persists... What do you think?
You guys are right, musicground is full of w@nkers it seems :evil:
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does it sound like rumbling wind, like a bassy wind blowing through the amp?
if so that could be just the tubes, but yea that amp has never been serviced or even turned on by musicground the only service it's had is the lip service.
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i have this amp too! (i assume its the master volume)
i've done quite alot of research into it.
differences in the 1979 one to the JCM800 version are the JMP has a lower plate voltage (a little more saturation, but a bit fuzzier), and higher quality capacitors (smoother, nicer top end). plus it looks a lot cooler, i reckon :)
even earlier ones (not yours) have a different preamp circuit which affects things alot more.
you got a nice amp there mate! i hope you get it sorted.
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i have this amp too! (i assume its the master volume)
i've done quite alot of research into it.
differences in the 1979 one to the JCM800 version are the JMP has a lower plate voltage (a little more saturation, but a bit fuzzier), and higher quality capacitors (smoother, nicer top end). plus it looks a lot cooler, i reckon :)
even earlier ones (not yours) have a different preamp circuit which affects things alot more.
you got a nice amp there mate! i hope you get it sorted.
Yeah your explanation makes sense, because that's what I thought when I tried it. However, it's now sounding really bad with no defintion on the lower notes. Could just be the tubes I guess, but I have talked with Musicground and I might swap it for a Orange Rocker 30 instead. Do you think it's a bad move?
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Yeah your explanation makes sense, because that's what I thought when I tried it. However, it's now sounding really bad with no defintion on the lower notes. Could just be the tubes I guess, but I have talked with Musicground and I might swap it for a Orange Rocker 30 instead. Do you think it's a bad move?
Well, thats up to you mate. The Orange is a very different amp obviously, I like the raw simplicity of the JMP.
You can get JMP Master Volumes on ebay for a good price. Seems like people didn't catch on to the fact that they're almost identical to the JCM800.
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The Rocker 30 is a really cool amp, but the JMP is much more credible.
Maybe it's just the Bias that needs adjustment (Biasing, my latest obsession) 8)
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The Marshall JMP amps do indeed use a fairly low plate voltage, typically 380-400 volts, which results in the amp distorting earlier. The build quality is also very good, for example the pots are not PCB mounted for easy servicing. Personally I think that these are the last great amp Marshall made, although there are arguments for the JCM800.
I sounds like your amp is not working correctly and needs a service. Possibly the filter caps need replacing, or possible the output valves need changing. It's very diffcult to say without seeing/hearing the amp.
Regarding the price, £650 is at the upper end of what these amps usually sell for. For that money I would have hoped to get an earlier small logo version (same amp, cooler box). However, people are now getting hip to JMP era Marshalls, so if you hang on to your amp and look after it you will have an appreciating asset.
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The Marshall JMP amps do indeed use a fairly low plate voltage, typically 380-400 volts, which results in the amp distorting earlier.
I've noticed that the 50w JMP Marshalls run low plate voltages but the 100w amps still run 'em quite high (520v on my old 2203 and I've found similar on other amps I've modded/serviced).
:twisted:
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Pah - weakling amps. My Klipps have over 600v plate voltages. :twisted:
So ner-ner ner ner-ner
[/childmode]
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Keep the amp - but take it back to where you bought it & tell em to actually service it & then give it you back as a proper sale-able product
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Regarding the above post,, I was referring to the 50 W amps. The 100 Ws do have higher voltages. Incidentally Marshall replacement mains transformers seem to be between the two at around 460-480 Volts.Sorry for any confusion.
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the Musicman HD 130's have 700+ platevolts on EL34's.. now thats really getting some serious juice out of your amp.
I'd take it back to music ground, make them service it for free.. they will do that it's just a shame they have to fob you off with a dodgy amp to make money with such a great shop?
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Yeah either that or I'll get a Rocker 30 or a VH100R both of which theyre willing to swap it for. Still a rip off but at least they'll be new with 3 years warranty. I need a reliable amp. I hate the clean on the marshall now coz well it isnt clean it's kind of sweet child o mine clean at best even with volume rolled right back, but I love its distortion and crunch. Maybe it's just coz Im used to lush cleans of fenders; my HRD with NOS mullard and Jenson speaker has the nicest clean sound Ive personally heard around here. Im going to be trying out the Rocker 30 when they bring it over from London. If I like it enough I'll get that and if not I'll order VH100R.
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regarding the cleans -
did you try the low sensitivity input? or whip out the capacitor across the gain pot (maybe not though as your thinking of taking the amp back :) ), which will allow you to roll the gain right back and keep the bottom end.
Twinfan: 600v eh? show off ;)
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:lol:
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regarding the cleans -
did you try the low sensitivity input? or whip out the capacitor across the gain pot (maybe not though as your thinking of taking the amp back :) ), which will allow you to roll the gain right back and keep the bottom end.
Yeah I tried the low input, but then you lose the nice sizzling gain... Plus you lose a lot of dynamics imo. I suppose it's alright if you use a distortion pedal but that would defeat the whole point of having a Marshall. Maybe one of those 7581(? forgot the name, the clean ECC83 thing) preamp tubes will help? As for the capacitor, I don't know how amps work at all so that means nothing to me :oops: maybe I should start learning these stuff, sounds useful. Thanks for the suggestion but as you said Id rather not mess with it, at least for now.
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I have a mint condition JMP 50watt combo. First time I used it up full (through a mashall powerbreak) I was stunned. Totally great rocking sound. I just used the volumes on the guitar to change the tone.
Incidentally we took it to Marshall in Milton keynes for a service and when we came in the guy behind the desk said "Oh a Thin Lizzy amp" It seems that they talk about them by referencing the sound they make, and this one does the Jailbreak sound perfectly at volume.
I have one of the earlier ones with the small logo as well, but it has been living in Brighton with one of the Guitar institute teachers for a couple of years, Hmmmm, must give Jim a call and get him to bring it back one day.
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[quote="LazyNinja]Yeah I tried the low input, but then you lose the nice sizzling gain... Plus you lose a lot of dynamics imo. I suppose it's alright if you use a distortion pedal but that would defeat the whole point of having a Marshall. Maybe one of those 7581(? forgot the name, the clean ECC83 thing) preamp tubes will help? As for the capacitor, I don't know how amps work at all so that means nothing to me :oops: maybe I should start learning these stuff, sounds useful. Thanks for the suggestion but as you said Id rather not mess with it, at least for now.[/quote]
:) Your experiences mirrors my own, which is pretty nice for me.
I agree with what you say. With the "low" input your losing an extra valve amplification stage.
I guess if you remove the capacitor I mentioned, its almost like starting to mod your amp... On the other hand, it is an easy mod to do and requires no soldering. I agree, it does feel wrong to mod a beautiful vintage amp like that. I wouldn't have done it either if I didn't think I could put it back.
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Not sure on how the high and low jacks are wired but I just thought maybe you could plug your guitar into an A/B footswitch then a cable into each input so you can easily switch between clean and overdriven?
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Not sure on how the high and low jacks are wired but I just thought maybe you could plug your guitar into an A/B footswitch then a cable into each input so you can easily switch between clean and overdriven?
yes, i thought this would be a nice idea too.
but if you check the schematic you can see that if anything is connected to the "high" input this disconnects the "low" input from the circuit.
http://mhuss.com/MyJCM/JCM800_2204.gif
now, it should be possible to modify those inputs to do what you suggest. but if you try one of these amps you'll notice the gain of the "low" input is alot lower than the "high". You couldn't just A/B - you'd need to knock the master volume up at the same time.
i guess your laney is a bit more versatile about this sort of thing (doesn't it have some kind of "gain boost" switch?) and it would be interesting to compare the tone.
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it dosent work like that, the low imput & high imput have about the same overall gain, just voiced different (unless my ears are completly shot after these years in a small room with a drummer!) i use an a/b pedal but just to give me a different sound & when the amp is cranked its just a frequency thning as both high & low are singing overdrive. at low volumes it seems to be low sensitivity is cleaner, but anythnig past 12 o clock & they even out. any lets face it - old marshalls need to be played wound up (i play through a hot plate so i can get some tube saturation at more reasonable volumes the amp does clean up with a volume roll off - you might need to mod your guitar with a treble bleed if you dont like the resuilt
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stuckin93: you must have the older version of the 2204 circuit. my amp had this too, before i changed it. you're right - in this case the overall gain was roughly the same with different voicing (i think the low input more bassy?)
my input is now like a jcm800, and i think lazyninja too, unless i'm mistaken. it has a more gain than the old circuit, but on the otherhand its less transparent.
circuit looks like this:
http://www.drtube.com/schematics/marshall/2204u.gif
as you say - high and low inputs totally independant.
i spent hours researching this amp - its my baby :))
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mine is a '76 with small white logo if that helps place the circuits - & yeh low sensitivity is bass biased.
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thanks for the info! that is pretty interesting
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My low input has nowhere near the gain of the high input.. Even cranked up. Say, if I set up the low input with gain 12 oclock and master all the way up, it's still pretty low gain. If I then changed the input, well, I guess I'll probably have a heart attack from the volume. :lol: I never tried the low input before it started playing up so I dont know if it's actualy meant to be like that. Oh yeah and I tried changing the preamp tubes but it didnt help. I guess the problem is either the power tubes or summat else. I dunno
I'd like to take back what I said about the Musicground. They are still pricey but they got the Rocker 30 in from London for me and they said I could take it to a rehearsal before I commit to buying it. I've already tried it but I wasnt too impressed, at least with the volume at ~3. Might have been the cheap Epiphone LP. Then the guy said take it home and play it louder :twisted: Top guys. Cant wait til saturday when I get to do that. If I still dont like it then I guess it'll be a Laney VH100R but they dont have one so I cant try.
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Laney VH100R seem really versatile, listen to this clip posted by someone on Harmony Central -
http://lucaonida.googlepages.com/Laneyprova3.mp3
If its anything like a GH50L then its perfect for british crunch. I posted a couple of quick clips of my GH50L in the Players forum, not amazing quality because I've only just started recording with a mic, but they give you the general idea.