Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: AH^DK on January 23, 2007, 06:17:02 PM
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Hello,
I am a new guy around here. I have previously used Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio pickups for my guitar, but I have decided to look for something different this time.
I have a 2004 MIM Fender Stratocaster Classic 50s series in surf green, routed for SSS and with a 6screw vintage trem. Its made of Alder with a one piece maple neck/maple board. It has stock pickups, and they just sound dead. The bridge is way to twangy for my taste. You know, with a humbucker a power chord just gives a full sound, with the bridge single in this one, it gives the string a more individual sound (I hope you know what I mean). I have prevented this by rolling off on the tone knob (rewired to bridge instead of middle).
I am searching for something that gives me a very pure sound. It must be humcancelling. I mainly use bridge and neck, so middle isnt really needed, but of course I wouldnt mind having it.
As far as tone goes my inspirations for this guitars are mainly Yngwie Malmsteen who is my biggest influence (Especially on tracks such as Rising Force, Trilogy Suite), and a bit of Richie Blackmoore. The one thing that worries me though, is that I am in doubt if I should fit a humbucker in the bridge, as I am also a big Eddie Van Halen fan, but my '89 Charvel already has a bucker in the bridge. I also like alot classical stuff and want to go in a neo classical way.
My amp is a ENGL Screamer through a Marshall JCM800 400watt cabinet with Lead80s (I think).
I hope you can help me.
Best Regards,
-Alex.
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The obvious pickup is the Trilogy Suite - compared to stock MIM pickups (the eq range of which starts in high treble and stops before it hits mid) your guitar will scream.
Oh and BKP don't make hum cancelling singles (except RW RP - but that relegates you to the lower gain 2 and 4 positions) - so that requirement would have to be scratched.
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I haven't tried them myself but I'd agree with Elliott, t'would seem to be Trilogies. Apaches are very 1950's traditional Strat.The other BKP Strat pups I have are Slowhands- nice warm traditional more 1960's Strat tone-great mids. I have played a Mother's Milk set and again traditional 1960's Strat tones. Welcome to the Forum btw.
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Guess I'll have to work the volume a lot then :)
Trilogy Suites was excactly what I thought off, but when I listen to the rhythm guitar on Rising Force (the track not the album) it doesent sound like a single coil, sounds much fatter and big.
One thing that concerns me is the output, yngwies YJM and HS3s have almost no output, while the TS set looks to have a big output, or am I wrong?
How noisy would those singles be?
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Sorry I haven't got experience of Trilogies.My pickups are modest output but I prefer that anyway. If you are asking about the noise of the pickups, you do get typical single coil noise but I don't have any issues with that-either live or recording. I would say that BKPs are less noisy than the stock pups were (one of my Strats is USA, the other Japanese).
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It is modest output I am looking for, it just made me wonder alittle bit, as another option would be this setup:
HS3 bridge, YJM mid and neck.
Or even go VHII humbucker and TS in mid and neck for more EVH like stuff, but how would that do for Yngwie stuff?
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Guess I'll have to work the volume a lot then :)
Trilogy Suites was excactly what I thought off, but when I listen to the rhythm guitar on Rising Force (the track not the album) it doesent sound like a single coil, sounds much fatter and big.
Maybe not his rhythm tone, but the lead tone definitely has that single coil quality to it. That album has a rawness to it that was soon lost (on Fire and Ice, Eclipse, etc). You an easily get that agression with the Trilogy Suite.
One thing that concerns me is the output, yngwies YJM and HS3s have almost no output, while the TS set looks to have a big output, or am I wrong?
Don't go by the numbers. The Trilogy is very quiet, but is still a single coil. With a lot of gain, you may want to use a noise suppressor, tho I don't.
How noisy would those singles be?
See above. :)
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A little off topic, but does the DK in your name mean that you are form Denmark? :D
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Guess I'll have to work the volume a lot then :)
Trilogy Suites was excactly what I thought off, but when I listen to the rhythm guitar on Rising Force (the track not the album) it doesent sound like a single coil, sounds much fatter and big.
Maybe not his rhythm tone, but the lead tone definitely has that single coil quality to it. That album has a rawness to it that was soon lost (on Fire and Ice, Eclipse, etc). You an easily get that agression with the Trilogy Suite.
One thing that concerns me is the output, yngwies YJM and HS3s have almost no output, while the TS set looks to have a big output, or am I wrong?
Don't go by the numbers. The Trilogy is very quiet, but is still a single coil. With a lot of gain, you may want to use a noise suppressor, tho I don't.
How noisy would those singles be?
See above. :)
Excactly, the guitar sound really "growls" so to say, on that record. Amazing clarity and still loads of grind.
The rawness is easy, the ENGL can do that. But what would make it most Yngwie like, HS-3-YJM-YJM or a TS set?
How about the other option of going hum in bridge?
SAmoth--> Yup. Are you from Denmark too? :)
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Only Yngwie's fingers and playing will make it totally Yngwie. That being said, I don't like single coil sized humbucking pickups, so I'm going to be biased. I used to be the biggest Joe Barden lover on the planet, until I played an Irish Tour from Tim. It's more organic, has better tone, and is more dynamic. Same is true with the HS-3/Trilogy Suite comparison in my opinion. But, like I said, I'm biased towards BKPs because they are the best!!
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I guess I am gonna go for them.
I do want something where I can create my own tone, but just something in the ball park :)
How would it do for a tone ala the one on Whitesnakes 1987 album, specifically on "Here I Go Again"?
Do you have some soundclips with someone playing Yngwie stuff with the Trilogyes?
And are they like the HS-3? 23k resistance and 93MV output? you know, low voltage?
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For something like Here I Go Again ultimately you'd want to use a super strat, ie a humbucker in the bridge.
I like your approch to tone, tho. Start with something you like and then make it your own!
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Thanks mate.
The problem is kinda that there are two tones that really obsesses me.
Yngwie on Odyssey and Trilogy Suite, and EVH on 1984. Panama just has a killer sound.
The thing I am afraid off, is that a single in the bridge will give me the ability to cover Yngwie, but how well will it be for my own stuff.
I play heavy metal thats very 80s inspired. Of course I already have my Superstrat which is also why I dunno if a bridge hum would be the best.
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If you're an old school metal guy, like myself, then it's all about the super strat!
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Thats excactly the thing.
I like Deep Purple, Yngwie Malmsteen and John Norum alot.
On the other hand I like Van Halen, Motley, quiet riot, cinderella, skid row, and loads of other super strat bands.
But the rolling of tone knob thing has actually worked quite good for fattening things up. How much fatter would the Suite set be versus the stock singles?
How would a VH-II with Suite singles work?
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Ben, seeing as you seem to have experience with different BK singlecoils, would you say a neck Trilogy can do smooth/fluid leads under gain (not as smooth or compressed as a humbucker obviously) whilst still retaining the classic singlecoil sound for cleans?
[/end thread hijack]
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Ben, seeing as you seem to have experience with different BK singlecoils, would you say a neck Trilogy can do smooth/fluid leads under gain (not as smooth or compressed as a humbucker obviously) whilst still retaining the classic singlecoil sound for cleans?
[/end thread hijack]
With high gain, the Trilogy plays itself lol.
It's a bit 'warmer' or 'thicker' than something like an Apache or Mother's Milk. More umph, and less chime.
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haha cool sounds great :twisted: Should sound good in my Charvel which is pretty bright played acoustically..
Tim basically said its just a fat-sounding single- almost P90 ish in the bridge apparently.
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I just found a clip with Yngwie.
At 3:25 you can hear him play some rhythm (not that scooped thing that goes on for 2 secs) its something like that I am looking for in my bridge single coils.
The neck is more like the lead you see from Making love just afterwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQuhDSxYB1o
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Before I had BKPs I had a couple of HS3s and an HS2- I have to say I personally thought they were the worst pickups I ever heard :?
I might be wrong but I think YM played DiMarzio FS1 strat pups on the Alcatraz albums and on Rising Force (a vinyl I genuinely wore out before giving up the guitar for 20 years coz I could never ever be that good) - these are hot singles not the bucking HS3s - so the TS would be a more authentic choice.
Also YM played a Les Paul for some rythym tracks on Rising Force, so maybe that's what your'e hearing.
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you can tell in that clip when he's playing that vintage strat in the shop that it's got thicker strings than he's used to.. he looks to be struggling..
he uses 8's doesnt he?
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He also just got in from the cold :)
He uses 8-46s, so do I of course :)
Well I dont its a Les Paul, it isnt fat enough.
Here is a clip of the tone I am talking about http://youtube.com/watch?v=eC4qhD8BOk0
EDIT:
I had almost forgot, another strat tone which is very similar to Yngwies that also like, is John Norums on The final Countdown.
Heres a clip http://youtube.com/watch?v=IvAnYidjOdY
That would still be trilogys?
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EDIT:
I had almost forgot, another strat tone which is very similar to Yngwies that also like, is John Norums on The final Countdown.
Heres a clip http://youtube.com/watch?v=IvAnYidjOdY
That would still be trilogys?
Yes :)
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Haha okay :)
I still cannot decide though.
What are the main sonic differences between the HS-3 and TS?
And I didnt get it Twilight, would the TS be able to sound like the rythm playing in the store clip and Rising force clip? Of course I need the chops, but basic tone so to say.? You know, not all twangy but making chords sound like chords instead of single notes ::)
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The Rising Force clip is from the Live In Brazil video, which I've seen many times. The sound quality on that mpg is terrible; compressed all to hell! The original video sounds much better. The Trilogy will do that sound.
As for the music store tone ... I think it was rubbish! Sounded like a solid state or Valvestate amp. Not my thing. Plus, it was a vintage Fender being overdriven very hard. For that kind of sound, as well as any REALLY old Yngwie tone (like Evil Eye or Icarus) personally, I would use an Irish Tour before a Trilogy Suite.
My opinion, of course, based off of what I know about BKs and what I know about Yngwie.
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SAmoth--> Yup. Are you from Denmark too? :)
Yeah, I'm Danish too 8)
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The Rising Force clip is from the Live In Brazil video, which I've seen many times. The sound quality on that mpg is terrible; compressed all to hell! The original video sounds much better. The Trilogy will do that sound.
As for the music store tone ... I think it was rubbish! Sounded like a solid state or Valvestate amp. Not my thing. Plus, it was a vintage Fender being overdriven very hard. For that kind of sound, as well as any REALLY old Yngwie tone (like Evil Eye or Icarus) personally, I would use an Irish Tour before a Trilogy Suite.
My opinion, of course, based off of what I know about BKs and what I know about Yngwie.
The tone in that clip was rubish yeah, but it was just to demonstrate what I meant by twangy. It just like, on my charvel, when I play A5 it sounds like a chord with a big sound, when I do it on the Fender it sounds like two individual strings. I hope you get what I mean :) What may cause this?
Its much more his Rising Force -> Eclipse I want with emphasis on the Odyssey sound. But of course so I can make it my own tone.
How would this do for more classical stuff? And clean sound?
And I am sorry for all my questions bro, I just want to be 100% certain :)
Samoth2--> Nice mate, hvor henne I dk? Horsens her :)
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Samoth2--> Nice mate, hvor henne I dk? Horsens her :)
Lidt nordpå, Aalborg området :D
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Its much more his Rising Force -> Eclipse I want with emphasis on the Odyssey sound. But of course so I can make it my own tone.
How would this do for more classical stuff? And clean sound?
Yes, I think that the Trilogy will do both of those sounds. It also depends on how clean the clean channel on your ENGL is. I remember the the clean on my ENGL preamp being very clean, much more so than the clean channel on my Splawn. But I've never had a problem getting clean tones from the Trilogy.
And I am sorry for all my questions bro, I just want to be 100% certain :)
No worries ... don't we all?!!
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the trilogy RULES.
i LOVE the cleans and the overdriven tones are sick!
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Okay then.
I am almost sure I am gonna go for the Trilogy Suites then :)
I am gonna think abit though, but I already have a HS_3 in the neck of my charvel, how is the TS versus the YJM/HS3 when dirty? Is it fatter or?
And I dont think I got a answer on, is it like HS-3? You know alot of resistance, but almost no output volt?
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Just re read some of the posts, and yup once the cash is ready its Trilogy Suite time :)
But lets just for fun say I wanna put a bridge humbucker in it.
A thing that is quite natural in the sound, not too compressed for stuff like Van Halen (VH1 -> 1984) and Judas Priest (British steel era), Whitesnake (1987), Skid Row (like the record, with the song Youth Gone Wild) and Maiden (Beast era)
Would that be the VHII for that? And the singles would be TS unless other recommended.
Thanks alot :)
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Def. go Cold Sweat/Trilogy Suite.
Just trust me on that one!
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Okay I'll think about it :)
Whats the difference between Cold Sweat, VHII and DiMarzio Virtual Hot PAF for instance?
And btw I am sorry about my confusion with the DiMarzios, its just you know, Yngwie uses them so they must be the best, but I am gonna give these a shot instead. :)
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Well, Yngwie probably hasn't played BKs yet, so more's the pity for him!
VHII: Hot PAF, very tight, cleans up nice, searing lead tone
Cold Sweat: A bit more drive, very similar to the classic DiMarzio tone from the 70s; very dynamic for a ceramic pickup, great sustain, ridiculous midrange
Can't comment on any newer DMZs.
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Hehe okay mate.
Well I guess those look awesome both of them.
I just dont know, I already have a superstrat, should I make the regular strat into H-S-S too.
Hard decision :S what do you think mate?