Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Machek on January 31, 2007, 10:57:50 PM
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Hi I'm new here, first post on this huge forum that I've almost finish reading (pickup and player part only...)
I post to find some help:
I've got a wonderfull Gibson LesPaul Smartwood, beautiful guitar, mahogany back, rounded gibbo mahogany neck, mahogany top (sold under the name Muir by Gibson), not so heavy.... a dream axe, but you all know the issue: 490R and 498T...
So you know what I'm after:
I play in a heavy rock little band, and play all heavy rythm part with bridge pickup, the problem is that I find the 498 way to harsh thin and shrill with the tone knob at 10, so I have to roll it down to no more than 4 to get the heavy distorted sound I seek. The problem is that then I got satisfaying big basses (amp: bass@8+), fat chunks, but lose definition, too much treble and don't cut through the mix...
The sound I'm talking about is something like Incubus "Wish you were here" heavy sound, staind also to some extents...more Volume than Gain, more basses than trebles, more Modern than Vintage... very ballsy, thick, in your face sound.
Anyway I was leaning toward a set RY's (love their lead and clean sounds by the way), 'cause they seem to be "the" heavy rock pickup, but I just feared that they would have too much treble, and not enough thickness in the bass, just like the pick up I wanna change.... Is this choice THE choice?
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Macheck,
I have ordered a set of rebel yells on Tims suggestion. I have a les paul standard and also could not stand the 490/498T stock pickups. I also could not stand the duncan 59/jb that i replaced them with. So i am anxiously awaiting the RY. With all thjat mahogany i dont think they will be too bright in your guitar IMO.
jimm
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Thanks for your opinion jimm
But you know I'm kinda disappointed, I sent a song to Tim to get him an rough idea of what I was after, and didn't get a respond, maybe I pushed it too far?....patience has limits... but then I guess he must receive like... hundreds of mp3 from different w**kers such as me every day, so it's really okay.... :D
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Try other pots and caps in that guitar and maybe 50's wiring.
That would solve the tone control issue.
RY are great anyway, I ordered a set too :)
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Welcome from me-I am a single coil player-I am sure the cavalry will arrive with advice and opinions.You are right in that Tim does receive a fair amount of e-mails but so far as I know, he does eventually get to respond.
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^ yeah, he should. I pm'ed him at the time he joined Iced Earth (:lol: I hadn't heard, what luck!) and he got back to me eventually.
:drink:
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Hey dude, can you give more song examples?
Not familiar with Incubus or Staind... :oops::oops::oops:
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Hey Machek!
For bass response, surely the Warpig? Its not just an all-out high gain monster, it cleans up well and you'll get a meaty bass plus good definition in the higher frequencies. I have a pair-o-pigs in an SG, so prbly not too comparable to a Les Paul, but they sound just like what you're after.
There are some clean / lo gain warpig clips if you trawl through the players forum.
As a final note, the Warpig is the only BKP I've ever used... I love it, so am a bit biased :)
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Welcome aboard Machek!
I used to own a Smartwood LP (with curupay top rather than muiricatiera). I now have a The Paul SL which has almost exactly the same construction - thin body, '59 neck shape etc, but no exotic wood top. I don't know about the muir, but the curupay top made the guitar a little brighter, I think.
Anyway, I have a Rebel Yell in the Paul and it sounds very different from the 498T - I noticed the difference immediately. It's brighter (but bright in a big way, not thin if that makes sense) and much more defined. Every note really rings out as the pick hits the strings. Although it's bright, it's not harsh and ragged sounding like the 498T, but it's really in your face - it has lots of "presence", that's the best way I can describe it.
From your description of a big thick sound with more bass than treble, I think the RY may not be what you want. From reading the forum I think the Holy Diver or maybe the Nailbomb might be more up your street. I haven't tried them myself, but lots of guys here can tell you all about those pickups. You might even try something a bit lower output for those Incubus tones.
(Strange, I love the RY but I always seem to be telling people they won't like it :( . I suppose modern rock/metal sounds are more bassy than I like, I'm much more into 70s/80s hard rock stuff.)
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Thanks you guys!
Actually, I listened carefully to that heavy clip steve recorded,
and I gotta say that I loved the sound of the first heavy rythm part (after that the lead just takes over :wink: ).
I figured that by dialing down my tone knob (anyway I never ever play on the bridge pup w/tone at 10) it would smooth the trebles the way I like it... it gives a kinda organic tone... I dunno...
Then I loved the agressive midrange that gives a lot of "R" voicing to it (I mean phonetically, you hear a rolled "R" and that's what I want), and figured that the SM57 alone couldn't give much low freq thickness (I usually record with a shure beta 52 stuck to it, does the trick), so I assumed that it could sound much thicker, well am I wrong?
Thanks again for your time guys
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Following on from our recent discussion on the difference between 500k and 250k pots...
It looks like I'm going to buy a Fender American Deluxe HSS Strat. I believe that these have 1 meg pots as stock, because that's what works best with the SCN Noiseless pickups.
Now, if I just wanted to change the bridge pickup and leave the single coils stock, what would a bridge humbucker sound like with 1 meg pots? Could I order a pickup that was wound to compensate?
Pots never boost treble, do they? I mean, a 1 meg pot is not going to sound any brighter than if the guitar had no volume pot at all. And some people de-wire their pots to get a clearer tone. So in theory, it's fine, right?
To be honest, I'm not convinced pots make as much difference as some people make out (before I joined this forum, someone on another forum actually told me it makes a "huge difference", which I find ridiculous). The difference between a 500k and 250k volume in my current Strat was minimal.
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Judging by the description of the sought-for tone, I'm not sure the Rebel Yell is right either. You want something a little less bright, I think. My first recommendation would be the Crawlers again, actually. And that's twice recently I've recommended them! I replaced the same Gibson pups in my LP Standard with them, but I don't always blindly recommend Crawlers to everyone or something ;)
Anyway, I think they'd suit. I think the Warpig is too much, actually, for what you seem to want. If not the Crawlers, I'd think about another reasonably hottish Alnico pup, like the Holydiver or even Nailbomb. But when I read the description of what you play and what you want, I immediately thought Crawler ....
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Actually I've been thinking about them, and I heard your clips (JumpGate is excellent), but I thought they would be a bit too vintage-oriented.... but again I never heard them in person.... disliked the clips on the website though... and your std has a maple cap while mine is mahogany....
Anyway I never heard Crawlers doing this modern sound I'm talking about, but I know that they'd suit more than HD or NB, which are a bit too hot, too metal-ish from what I've heard in the players room. They come right after the RY if I ever need that BKP's 14days notice.
Could you try and tell me?
I don't wanna abuse of your time and patience though...
And again: thanks alot guys
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For a modern sound than the Crawlers, but around the same level of heat -- in that case, I should think the Rebel Yells might well be right on the money after all! :)
For a more metally vibe, I suppose the Cold Sweats could be an option? They're ceramic, though, and I instinctively shy away from cermanic, but that's because I like a vintage-ier vibe than ceramic pups have, so they might work for you :)
(Thanks for the kind words on my dodgy, lo-budget clips :))
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In fact I downloaded all the mp3 you put out and I think they're great,
I loved colour out of space (the heavy-door feeling to it)
I also liked the fact that your clips put rythm work first, unlike a lot of clip that are only free solos... anyway you sound a bit like Morrisson dude!
Oh I finally found some clips with a sound approaching what I've got in mind (loved the prs/variax vid :P ), and I seriously consider Crawlers now!!
Just: how good is the clean? It does very well those thick sounds, but can it produce good enough clean sounds? does it keep a bit of brightness and good articulation/definition for leads?
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In fact I downloaded all the mp3 you put out and I think they're great,
I loved colour out of space (the heavy-door feeling to it)
I also liked the fact that your clips put rythm work first, unlike a lot of clip that are only free solos...
My technique is so bad that I've got to put my rhythm work first! :oops:
But, even if I could shred like a demon (rather than just tripping over my fingers), the demos I post are song demos, not guitar solo demos ;) so I really feel the rhythm guitar is what makes the song.
I do appreciate the kind words over my very homebrew, amateur efforts! :)
anyway you sound a bit like Morrisson dude!
Heh, that's kinda funny because someone else on an email list I'm on said the same thing! Now I'm starting to think I oughta dig out my Best of The Doors CD and start studying it up. I've never thought of my vocals as very good, but perhaps steering them in a Morrisoneque direction would help the most of them ....
Oh I finally found some clips with a sound approaching what I've got in mind (loved the prs/variax vid :P ), and I seriously consider Crawlers now!!
Just: how good is the clean? It does very well those thick sounds, but can it produce good enough clean sounds? does it keep a bit of brightness and good articulation/definition for leads?
I think the cleans on the Crawler are excellent -- having good cleans was one of my "tone touchstones" when I emailed Tim asking about what pups would work for me. The Alnico magnets are a help there, as well as the general BKP build quality. Honestly, I heard a Nailbomb clip that had astonishingly good cleans, and those're a bit hotter than the Crawlers. I've heard people swear that the Warpigs have great cleans, for that matter ....
For articulation in leads, by no means do I think the Crawler is too thick or dark. Its main strength is in the midrange bump (in comparison to their closest cousin, the Abraxas, which tonally is very much a "hotter Mule"; the Crawler is more like a hotter Mule that's got extra grunt in the mids). That helps cut through the mix a bit more on leads.
The Crawler neck (admittedly the same as the Abraxas neck) is really good -- good enough that I think people who seldom use the neck humbucker would start to use this one! Its cleans are excellent too, of course, but it will do beautiful fluid-but-articulate leads that would make Slash green and Santana jealous.
Overall, I like the Crawler because it can reach down towards classic tones and also up into metal, or at least classic or stoner/doom metal, tones. For proper 80s shred or modern extreme metal -- well, there are BKPs that are built to do that. :twisted: But the Crawlers are very versatile rock/metal pups.
If not the Crawler, other options I think are still something like the Holy Diver or Nailbomb (both a little more metal yet than the Crawler) or (if you wanna go ceramic) Cold Sweat. I still think the Rebel Yell might be a bit too bright (great pup though it is) for what you seem to want.
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Thanks for the great answer Carlaz
I set my mind on the Crawlers, they seem a little bit warmer than NB or HD's which gives a somewhat more organic sound. And that's what I was looking for because I don't play metal, maybe more like a punchy, really heavy rock, with a much warmer tone than full on metal-distortion (which i don't disregard it's just not what I'm after :wink: ) ....
Maybe (and don't know how it works at all with the custom ordering, the sending etc) I'll just ask Tim to tweak a set of Crawlers into something more heavy-rock than blues-rock, I blindly trust him on that....
Thanks again
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I set my mind on the Crawlers, they seem a little bit warmer than NB or HD's which gives a somewhat more organic sound. And that's what I was looking for because I don't play metal, maybe more like a punchy, really heavy rock, with a much warmer tone than full on metal-distortion (which i don't disregard it's just not what I'm after :wink: ) ....
I totally hear ya. Full on metal (in the modern sense) is not really my vibe, despite which I had (have?) major Warpig lust before I got the Crawlers. I mean, how can you not like what the Warpigs are gonna do? :twisted: Still, I had to slap myself and realize that was not what I needed.
Yeah, "punchy, really heavy rock" with a warm tone sounds like it covers what I was going for too, in general, and the Crawlers do a good job. Someone, Ratrod, I think recommended them to me from the start but I hadn't considered them that seriously until Tim made me his recommendation. Spot on, as it turned out!
Maybe (and don't know how it works at all with the custom ordering, the sending etc) I'll just ask Tim to tweak a set of Crawlers into something more heavy-rock than blues-rock, I blindly trust him on that....n
Well, tell him you're thinking of the Crawlers, maybe something else, and describe the tones you're aiming for and he'll tell you what works, I think. These pickup names/descriptions can be misleading. I mean, I dig a lot of heavy blues rock and stuff, but I wouldn't have necessarily zoomed in on my tone that way -- and I'd never heard of Geoff Whitehorn, whose signature pups I now use ;) .... maybe if I were a bit older :)
Something squeezing in between the Crawlers and Rebel Yells or Holy Divers? Why not?! Gods know Seymour Duncan seems to have spawned loads of pickup variations that come from users deciding they need something just slightly different from stock .... :)
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Well when I e-mailed him, describing what I wanted (but I just forgot to mention songs or bands whose tone I liked) he answered: Crawlers.
I checked the description and sound clips on the website (not the forum) and didn't like the sound, so I just sent him a song, but he didn't respond, so I guess he hadn't change his mind... well I trust the man, so crawlers it is.
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Well, there's a fortnight's money-back-guarantee thing (or something like that), so if you don't like them, you can always send 'em back and get something else! :)