Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: JamesHealey on February 02, 2007, 01:22:20 PM
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Well i've done the unthinkable..
i've installed 2 Seymour Duncans in my strat and im afraid they sound better than the BKP's.. not more complex but deffinatly bigger sounding and much more suitable for the Splawn..
I've still got an Irish Tour in the middle though so it aint all bad ;)
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Which models did you install?
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An economical decision, too!
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Nothing wrong with that. I have a Custom Custom in my strat copy and it doesnt sound too bad, hopefully putting it in my Charvel soon though :)
As Muzzzz says, saves a load of money, I got mine off ebay for about £40 I think :D
edit - are you selling a VHII bridge by any chance? :twisted:
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You may find that the Splawn has been "voiced" for the Duncan-type tone. I have a JB in the bridge of an RG and I love it.
Sometimes a particular combo just works. Horses for courses!
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8), tom already got a buyer for one of the IT's and VHII.. im putting them into his guitar tonight.. sold em at a fair loss but made enough to cover myself.
Got a Pair of Eminence Private Jack speakers in 8ohms up for grabs if anyones interested.
Bridge, Duncan Distortion
Neck, Lil '59
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^ ^ ^
Hey dude, you'll have to change your signature:
"VHII and x2 Irish Tour - Stunning!" :cry:
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I must admit I'm quite shellshocked!
I can see the logic if the Splawn is as in-your-face as some say, but weren't there any BKPs under consideration, HD/Trilogy or something like that maybe?
Not leaving us are you James?
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Okay, get out!
I kid ...
I am quite suprised, though. To each his own, as they say. Now get out! I'm joking ... No, not really. Seriously, I'm only kidding. Kinda. ;)
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Quite a change of pickups-the Duncan distortion is ceramic I believe- does it still do the VH thing?
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Im shocked, i always thought your tone was superb with the VHII. I would love to hear a new recording of yours with the SD's now. All the best.
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I quite like the SD Lil' 59 I have one in my Hardtail Strat. However, my SG with the MQ and WP is totally B.t.t.W for sound and I need that edge.
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Heretic :o Burn him :twisted:
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yeah, surely the VHII would do Van Halen better than a Duncan Distortion....
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yeah, surely the VHII would do Van Halen better than a Duncan Distortion....
Yeah but Eddie Van Halen didn't use a Splawn, he used an old Marshall
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I think he said it best in the original post. Not more complex but bigger. So I think you sacrifice detail, dynamics, and the subtleties of the BKPs for LOUDER. IMO :wink:
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Other way round here. Thought my PRS SE pickups were cooler than BKPs. But since I got the VHT top I can't put my Axis w/ Rebel Yells down.
Now I do need BKPs for my PRS, what a relief. I am so tempted to put Rebel Yells in, although I already have a pair. VHIIs might be nice in the PRS too ... :roll:
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Now I do need BKPs for my PRS, what a relief.
"What a relief, now I have to spend another couple of hundred quid!"
But I know what you mean. :lol:
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whatever sounds good :)
i wouldn't say i was leaving bkp behind, but i just tried another brand of pickups in my V and they're shockingly good...
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I'm shocked. :o
I could imagine someone preferring other top pickup makers' pickups over Bare Knuckles. But, seriously, Duncans? A mass produced pickup?
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I'm shocked. :o
I could imagine someone preferring other top pickup makers' pickups over Bare Knuckles. But, seriously, Duncans? A mass produced pickup?
no they were custom jobs... always feel a bit weird about mentioning rival companies on here though to be frank - hence the little edit.
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I was actually referring to the first post, gwEm. I'm pretty shure those pickups of yours are ace.
It would be foolish IMHO to stop trying something else. Most people were pretty happy with their pickups untill they tried something else, like BKP's, for example.
I'm not sticking to BKP's alone either. There's a set of TV Jones pickups in my Gretsch and there's nothing wrong with those.
I agree, it feels a bit weird mentioning other manufacturers in a positive way on this forum.
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whatever works for ya mate.
i for one couldnt be happier
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I could imagine someone preferring other top pickup makers' pickups over Bare Knuckles. But, seriously, Duncans? A mass produced pickup?
that's what I was thinking...
as they say though, maybe the splawn/duncan combo just works.
Good luck to you, james!
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To each his own, definitely. Personally from all the clips I've heard I think splawns sound like piss water, but there you go.
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maybe the splawn/duncan combo just works.
Having heard the Splawn/Bare Knuckles combo with more pickups than most people, I can tell you that it really works well. It is a bit bright and Irish Tours are a bright pickup too, but the Splawn does have working tone controls - it isn't a Marshall!
I guess if your ears are telling you that SD's are better that is what you should use, but having done comparisions of BK to just about every other pickup maker, the current SD production range doesn't do it for me!
I have lots of other makes in guitars (including the dreaded EMG!), but I really can hear the difference with the BK's. I did buy SD basslines for TO's bass player, but the new bass has a Music Man pickup and BK doesn't make one of those. My Jazz bass will have BK's and my Precision never sounded as good as when I swaped out the pickup for a BK.
I am really surprised that you couldn't get a good sound from a VHII/Splawn combo, as I have never heard TO get a bad sound from his.
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To each his own, definitely. Personally from all the clips I've heard I think splawns sound like piss water, but there you go.
Hm, that must mean that it sounds good, in ... some kinda slang?
I actually didn't know that fluids make sounds :?
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what really annoys me is when you have an awesome pickup that is in a 70s guitar that was put it 70 years ago and handles high gain and clean well... BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE A BRAND ON IT!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
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what really annoys me is when you have an awesome pickup that is in a 70s guitar that was put it 70 years ago and handles high gain and clean well... BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE A BRAND ON IT!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
:lol:
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Cannot get a good sound of the VH2 on the Splawn?. Something is not quite right. :roll:
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guys- he never said the VHii sounded BAD... just said he preferred the SDs...
(i think.... lol)
nice one for being 'brave' enough to post it as well :lol:
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maybe the splawn/duncan combo just works.
Having heard the Splawn/Bare Knuckles combo with more pickups than most people, I can tell you that it really works well. It is a bit bright and Irish Tours are a bright pickup too, but the Splawn does have working tone controls - it isn't a Marshall!
I guess if your ears are telling you that SD's are better that is what you should use, but having done comparisions of BK to just about every other pickup maker, the current SD production range doesn't do it for me!
I have lots of other makes in guitars (including the dreaded EMG!), but I really can hear the difference with the BK's. I did buy SD basslines for TO's bass player, but the new bass has a Music Man pickup and BK doesn't make one of those. My Jazz bass will have BK's and my Precision never sounded as good as when I swaped out the pickup for a BK.
I am really surprised that you couldn't get a good sound from a VHII/Splawn combo, as I have never heard TO get a bad sound from his.
Yeah, I mean I haven't tried the splawn, but I know I didn't like the SD distortion much at all when I tried it.
Still, I guess personal preference and all.
:drink:
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what really annoys me is when you have an awesome pickup that is in a 70s guitar that was put it 70 years ago and handles high gain and clean well... BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE A BRAND ON IT!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
Do you have lots of these 70s (or 30s? :wink: ) guitars, then, or is there one particular pickup you can't identify?
Show us some pics, maybe someone can help.
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oops i meant 20-30 years ago
ill get some pics soon
it's a les paul, made by columbus in the early 70s
the humbucker is open coil
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im not knocking the build quality, or the tone of bare knuckles I think they're fantastic and they're the best sounding pickups i've used with lots of combinations of amps i mean in the ENGL Screamer 50 and Carlton Camel the VHII was unbelievably good but i think the splawn just didnt agree with the VHII for my ears and something a bit deeper slightly muddier was needed..
i'll post a clip of the duncans on soundclick since it's not policy to post them here.. i'll link it up in a few mins.
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To whoever it was that quoted me, I just don't like the splawn clips I hear. None of them have any sort of edge to them. The right amount of gain, the right amount of mids and the right amount of treble, but so boring. There's just nothing that makes them stand out at all. Could be different standing next to one for real, but I've never heard a clip that would make me want to bother trying one. Maybe that's why shoddy pickups give it some slightly interesting quality? I don't know.
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www.soundclick.com/jameshealey/
check out the clips..
please bare in minds for the VHII clip was recorded on an Eminence Private Jack and the Duncan was on a Celestion Vintage 30..
not really a fair comparison as they're quite different speakers but I prefer the difference.
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On those clips I do prefer the Duncan one.. could just be the speaker though maybe?
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The duncan does sound a lot better, doesn't it? You might be better with just a higher output BK, judging by the comparison, but then with different speakers it's hard to say. Miracle men or something might give the right bit of aggression? I don't know.
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Tom i must politly disagree.The VHII track had so much more life and soul to it than the Duncan one. I know its a diff speaker but the SD sounded flat and had no real character. Please dont think me rude saying this its merely a opinion.
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i think im gonna go with steve on this one.. (kinda)...
it sounds to me (and im NO pickup/amp/speaker/tone expert AT ALL)...
but it sounds to me like the VHII had the nicer tone, but that it was a bit shrouded/quiet/indistinct/bassy or SOMETHING.... like the tone was there but wasnt quite audible.... whereas with the Duncans, it seemed almost louder/more in your face/clearer.... which was why it sounded 'better'....
maybe thats due to the different speakers.... ?
alternatively that could just mean that the Duncans were 'better' in this case... lol... dunno what im talking about...
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To clarify, I'd agree that it was the in-your-faceness of the duncans that made them sound better, although I wouldn't use the inverted commas.
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I prefered the VHII, but like TOm says it needs more "oomph". I'd put the pickup closer to the strings, and use the V30 more ;)
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To clarify, I'd agree that it was the in-your-faceness of the duncans that made them sound better, although I wouldn't use the inverted commas.
:lol:
in hindsight, me neither.
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The Duncan has a more cut-through sound, but doesn't have the mellow lushnses that the VhII has.
It's your choice in the end, but I'm sure you can get something better than that Duncan if you looked.
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Hey if it works with the player, guitar and amp setup then it's the right pickup for the job.
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everything is for the player anyway .. guitars, amps, pickups, tubes, speakers...
the causal listener doesnt give a rats ass what you're playing through
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i think im gonna go with steve on this one.. (kinda)...
it sounds to me (and im NO pickup/amp/speaker/tone expert AT ALL)...
but it sounds to me like the VHII had the nicer tone, but that it was a bit shrouded/quiet/indistinct/bassy or SOMETHING.... like the tone was there but wasnt quite audible.... whereas with the Duncans, it seemed almost louder/more in your face/clearer.... which was why it sounded 'better'....
maybe thats due to the different speakers.... ?
alternatively that could just mean that the Duncans were 'better' in this case... lol... dunno what im talking about...
yeah, I'd agree with that, the duncan sounded clearer. I also didn't like the duncan's tone at all, but it was clearer. EDIT: and I guess for that hot-rodded later 80's type tone the duncan might suit better.
As rob says, if it suits you, that's all that matters.
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everything is for the player anyway .. guitars, amps, pickups, tubes, speakers...
the causal listener doesnt give a rats ass what you're playing through
Very true about the casual listener.... some people think MP3s are good quality audio.
I've noticed a fair number of amp setting in the players section are dialed in in a very mid heavy way. Bass 1 Treble 2 Mid 12. Makes for a very muddy sound if you're trying to fit it in in a song mix. imo :wink:
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everything is for the player anyway .. guitars, amps, pickups, tubes, speakers...
the causal listener doesnt give a rats ass what you're playing through
very true. us tone conscious guitarists listen to tone more than the casual listener.
i remember when i was just a 'casual listener' - i didn't give a cr@p what gear Metallica were using!
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The Duncan has a more cut-through sound, but doesn't have the mellow lushnses that the VhII has.
It's your choice in the end, but I'm sure you can get something better than that Duncan if you looked.
The VHII recording is a bit muffled but im sure u can hear the lack of lower mids and bass response in that recording compared to the Duncan.
Now I think the quote above was a bit unfair to Duncan's even tim will admit as far as Mass Produced pickups go Mr Duncans pickups use the best quality components unlike say DiMarzio.. and they're nowhere near as Sterile as EMG's.. I've been playing guitar nearly 15 years now and im pretty sure i've gleened an ear for tone somewhere in my travels and im telling u now this Duncan sounds better for that particular application.
It's just a shame everyone heres got caught up in the handwinding marketing, i mean yea it makes a hugely noticable difference to the harmonic content and resonant peak im not going to deny that but essentially all pickups are just wire and magnets and the name shouldnt matter on the pickup just the tone it presents to your ear.
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^well said.
sometimes peoples reactions on here confuse me somewhat...
for example, if theres a BK clip which i think is alright... there is more often than not a bucket-load of people saying how insanely awesome it is...
secondly, if its a NON BK clip, which i sometimes think sounds good... theres more often than not a bucket-load of people saying how insanely BAD it is...
just as you said: the name on the pickup shouldn't matter, just the tone that it presents to your ear.
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Very true about the casual listener.... some people think MP3s are good quality audio.
Very true (I loathe MP3s but it's the easiest way to transport audio these days).
Also considering PC audio is also not what it is always cracked up to be (even with a decent pair of phones plugged in)
Damn when are the clips here going to be distributed on proper vinyl instead of this digital cr@p ?
Rob...
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The Duncan has a more cut-through sound, but doesn't have the mellow lushnses that the VhII has.
It's your choice in the end, but I'm sure you can get something better than that Duncan if you looked.
The VHII recording is a bit muffled but im sure u can hear the lack of lower mids and bass response in that recording compared to the Duncan.
Now I think the quote above was a bit unfair to Duncan's even tim will admit as far as Mass Produced pickups go Mr Duncans pickups use the best quality components unlike say DiMarzio.. and they're nowhere near as Sterile as EMG's.. I've been playing guitar nearly 15 years now and im pretty sure i've gleened an ear for tone somewhere in my travels and im telling u now this Duncan sounds better for that particular application.
It's just a shame everyone heres got caught up in the handwinding marketing, i mean yea it makes a hugely noticable difference to the harmonic content and resonant peak im not going to deny that but essentially all pickups are just wire and magnets and the name shouldnt matter on the pickup just the tone it presents to your ear.
I agree with your point but I have to say that I wasn't being biased at all.
The duncan has the cutting and the BKP does have the mellowness, that's what my ears tell me :S
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The VHII recording is a bit muffled but im sure u can hear the lack of lower mids and bass response in that recording compared to the Duncan.
I hear exactly what you mean. To be honest I've noticed the same mush from my guitars through my Splawn as well (unfortunatly I lack the proper recording gear). I think I prefer the duncans overall but I like the organic tone of the VH2's. Honestly it is too close to call.
I would prefer the two clips to have been run through the same speaker. but I can clearly hear the difference. Just curious and probably you probably mentioned this but what Guitars are these through?
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same ash bodied strat, same amp settings, same cab..
only difference is the pickups and speakers..
the guitar is an American Deluxe Limited Edition Strat..
Ash Body, Maple Neck, Ebony Board.
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James, I'm getting a little confused here as you're now talking about how mushy the VHII is but when you first posted you were saying how bright/in yerface it was??
By the way I don't agree with the blinkered BKP worship stuff- but I would say that at present they're the best I've tried so far- single coils in a strat any way and I'll be ordering some HB's soon.
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The Duncan has a more cut-through sound, but doesn't have the mellow lushnses that the VhII has.
It's your choice in the end, but I'm sure you can get something better than that Duncan if you looked.
The VHII recording is a bit muffled but im sure u can hear the lack of lower mids and bass response in that recording compared to the Duncan.
Now I think the quote above was a bit unfair to Duncan's even tim will admit as far as Mass Produced pickups go Mr Duncans pickups use the best quality components unlike say DiMarzio.. and they're nowhere near as Sterile as EMG's.. I've been playing guitar nearly 15 years now and im pretty sure i've gleened an ear for tone somewhere in my travels and im telling u now this Duncan sounds better for that particular application.
It's just a shame everyone heres got caught up in the handwinding marketing, i mean yea it makes a hugely noticable difference to the harmonic content and resonant peak im not going to deny that but essentially all pickups are just wire and magnets and the name shouldnt matter on the pickup just the tone it presents to your ear.
what's wrong with dimarzios? I'd be interested to hear (don't quote tim if you think it'll get him into bother, just say "i hear from a source", lol).
:drink:
^well said.
sometimes peoples reactions on here confuse me somewhat...
for example, if theres a BK clip which i think is alright... there is more often than not a bucket-load of people saying how insanely awesome it is...
secondly, if its a NON BK clip, which i sometimes think sounds good... theres more often than not a bucket-load of people saying how insanely BAD it is...
just as you said: the name on the pickup shouldn't matter, just the tone that it presents to your ear.
I agree, I don't believe in blind fanboyism (that might not be a word :lol: ) either- the reason that most of us found out about BKP's was because we were sick of all the fanboyism of other brands.
For the record, I just didn't like the distortion's tone, it's not really the tone I'm after at all- I've tried the distortion, and didn't much like it. Obviously that's not slagging you off, it's just my own opinion.
:drink:
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I think it's unfair to compare brands when you're talking about 2 different types of pickups. Maybe if you swapped the VHII for a Duncan with A5 magnet wound to 9.2k, but otherwise it's not a fair comparison and thus this thread is pretty pointless. "I'm leaving Alnico V 9k humbuckers behind" may have been a better thread title.
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I think it's unfair to compare brands when you're talking about 2 different types of pickups. Maybe if you swapped the VHII for a Duncan with A5 magnet wound to 9.2k, but otherwise it's not a fair comparison and thus this thread is pretty pointless. "I'm leaving Alnico V 9k humbuckers behind" may have been a better thread title.
Ah, but it wasn't a comparison of brands, it was just a statement that he's leaving his BKP behind :P
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I think it's unfair to compare brands when you're talking about 2 different types of pickups. Maybe if you swapped the VHII for a Duncan with A5 magnet wound to 9.2k, but otherwise it's not a fair comparison and thus this thread is pretty pointless. "I'm leaving Alnico V 9k humbuckers behind" may have been a better thread title.
Ah, but it wasn't a comparison of brands, it was just a statement that he's leaving his BKP behind :P
But the title suggests that he is leaving the whole brand behind rather than just this one pickup.
This thread has been a bit pointless as Bainzy said.
The comparisons between two of the top brand are a bit like comparing BMWs with a TVR.
Whilst we will agree that the handmade TVR will have a bit of an individual character and "soul" - few/none of us would claim that a nice BMW is cr@p
I'm sure if James got Tim to wind a pickup to a similar spec to the SD one but handwind it with a scatterwind and a slight offset between the two coils, it would push the Splawn amp just perfectly and have that "soul" to it as well, but in the meantime the SD that h already had seems to be doing a good job.
Neither is a "bad" pickup - just different to each other.
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couldn't have put it better myself
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I think it's unfair to compare brands when you're talking about 2 different types of pickups. Maybe if you swapped the VHII for a Duncan with A5 magnet wound to 9.2k, but otherwise it's not a fair comparison and thus this thread is pretty pointless. "I'm leaving Alnico V 9k humbuckers behind" may have been a better thread title.
Ah, but it wasn't a comparison of brands, it was just a statement that he's leaving his BKP behind :P
But the title suggests that he is leaving the whole brand behind rather than just this one pickup.
This thread has been a bit pointless as Bainzy said.
The comparisons between two of the top brand are a bit like comparing BMWs with a TVR.
Whilst we will agree that the handmade TVR will have a bit of an individual character and "soul" - few/none of us would claim that a nice BMW is cr@p
I'm sure if James got Tim to wind a pickup to a similar spec to the SD one but handwind it with a scatterwind and a slight offset between the two coils, it would push the Splawn amp just perfectly and have that "soul" to it as well, but in the meantime the SD that h already had seems to be doing a good job.
Neither is a "bad" pickup - just different to each other.
+1
You deserve a medal mate - Or some sort of genius status.
Although not too fond of the mass amount of car metaphors that are on this forum xD
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Read this thread with interest.
It's always good to compare pickups and have a shoot out but to compare a VHII-Alnico V DC9K with a Distortion-ceramic DC16K is rediculous.They should sound totally different and work the amp in completely different ways.It's like comparing a Strat and LP and saying the Strat has no balls. Put a Painkiller up against the Distortion and then see which scratches the itch. That's an objective test surely.
At the end of the day, each to his own, that's what choice is all about but let's at least be realistic when comparing pickups.
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Alnico V DC9K with a ceramic DC16K
interesting... i had no idea they were so different...
that does change things...
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Yeah - a Miracle man would do the trick nicely
Real George Lynch type stuff
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IMO the logical thing would have been to buy a second guitar to accomodate the Distortion/l59. If he liked the VHII half as much as he said he did surely it would be worth hanging onto in case he ever changed from the Splawn... :)
Also, I agree with Tim that the Distortion & VHII are so totally different it's hardly worth comparing. It's not just the Alnico v Ceramic debate. Comparing the Distortion to, say, the Holy Diver would be more worthwhile - a least they have comparable output.
Come to think of it, I wonder if James every tried a Holy Diver, Miracle Man or Painkiller?
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Im not knocking the VHII never did just said it wasnt the pickup for the splawn, and im sure tim's grown up enough to understand that..
Not trying to hurt anyones feelings but im using a duncan.. aaaaaaahhhhhhhh god forbid.
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Good stuff.
And anyone that's knocking the guy, you're an idiot. Simple as that, big deal - he prefers a pickup by another brand. OH NO!! :roll:
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No one is particularly flaming him for moving to another brand - if it works for you, who cares?! Use a Squier strat fitted with 7's and EMG's thru a Marshall MG, if it works for you, use it!
But, at the end of the day, they are two different pickups - it's like comparing a Ferrari to a Roll Royce.
Andy!
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Good stuff.
And anyone that's knocking the guy, you're an idiot. Simple as that, big deal - he prefers a pickup by another brand. OH NO!! :roll:
no ones knocking the guy at all?!
pretty much everyone has been intrigued and interested, but at the same time most people have said "horses for courses" or "personal preference" e.t.c. e.t.c....
im sure no one meant to be having a go at james at all...
the guy above me summed it up perfectly - its an unrealistic comparison looking at the spec of the pickups.