Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: BloodMountain on February 05, 2007, 10:45:59 PM

Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 05, 2007, 10:45:59 PM
hi
i have waited long enough, now i crave both.
its a Ceramic warpig vs Laney GH50L... which one should i get first? i don't have enough spare money for both, and i know both will affect my sound HUGELY........

HELP!!!

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: _tom_ on February 05, 2007, 10:47:05 PM
I'd say amp first, affects tone much more than pickups in my opinion/experience.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 05, 2007, 10:47:49 PM
thats what i was thinking.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 05, 2007, 11:34:52 PM
Amp.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: hunter on February 06, 2007, 06:14:04 AM
Well as all components play a part and the tone quality will always be as good as the weakest component, I would first identify that (weakest component).

If that is the amp at the moment, get an amp, if those are pickups, get those, if it's the fingers, get a teacher  :twisted:
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Crazy_Joe on February 06, 2007, 11:25:18 AM
Laney.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: maliciousteve on February 06, 2007, 11:44:09 AM
Deffinatly go with the amp. What's the point of having a good guitar with really good pickups if you don't have a really good amp to really bring your tone through?
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Mr Ed on February 06, 2007, 11:54:51 AM
Quote from: maliciousteve
Deffinatly go with the amp. What's the point of having a good guitar with really good pickups if you don't have a really good amp to really bring your tone through?


I say amp for exactly the same reason, you could have the best guitar in the world but if your amp is shite, so's your tone.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: indysmith on February 06, 2007, 12:23:18 PM
what amp are yu using currently? my first impression is to scream AMP!!!!!!
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 12:26:50 PM
my amp is a Marshall MG250DFX that i HATE. I have to use a Zoom 505II through it's clean channel (which is shitee on it's own!) to get an alright distortion from it!

my main pickup is a Dimebucker, which is actually quite tolerable despite it's downsides.

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: indysmith on February 06, 2007, 12:31:02 PM
Quote from: BLOODMOUNTAIN
my amp is a Marshall MG250DFX that i HATE. I have to use a Zoom 505II through it's clean channel (which is shitee on it's own!) to get an alright distortion from it!

my main pickup is a Dimebucker, which is actually quite tolerable despite it's downsides.

BM

well - it seems amp is the obvious choice. that laney will transform your tone, although yu should think about the cost for a cab and a hotplate on top of the amp itself...
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 12:34:00 PM
i've thought about a cab, which will be no problem as i'm only after a 2x12 (or possibly 4x10 but not very likely.... too big)

hmmmm i don't think i need a hotplate yet, it's a bit too expensive for what it does.

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: indysmith on February 06, 2007, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: BLOODMOUNTAIN
i don't think i need a hotplate yet, it's a bit too expensive for what it does.

HA - you clearly havent tried one :P
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 12:40:45 PM
oh dear... now everyone's gonna tell me why i need to spend £250....
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: _tom_ on February 06, 2007, 12:44:28 PM
Get a used hotplate.. The Laney sounds ok at lower volumes using the master, but a bit fizzy. When you have the hotplate you can get the master up a bit whilst keeping the level about the same, and it removes some of the fizz. I still cant find a 16 ohm one for sale anywhere and I'm not paying £250 for one new.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 01:19:10 PM
ill just get some 6L6s to remove some of the fizz..... and my Behringer EQ700 should arrive any day soon, so that can help me destroy my annoying top end  :)

it seems that used hotplates are hard to find, so i'll just stick with the amp on it's own.

Hey, anyone got any ideas of which cabinet i should get? 2x12, suited for modern metal, fairly budget?

thanks, BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: maliciousteve on February 06, 2007, 01:31:25 PM
6L6's sound the bollocks in the Laney GH and VH series (I have them in my VH100) alot of the fizz is removed but nothing beats turning that volume up  :D
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 01:35:30 PM
sweeeeet! that'll be the next buy after the amp and cab  :)

any ideas about a cab then? (2x12, suited for modern metal, fairly cheap)

i was thinking about Avatar, but they're in america..... damn!

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Mr Ed on February 06, 2007, 01:47:45 PM
I got a practically brand new Marshall 1936 2x12 off eBay for £180 and then spent £120 on a pair of Vintage 30's for it.

I'd say eBay's your best bet.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: dave_mc on February 06, 2007, 01:49:13 PM
Quote from: hunter
Well as all components play a part and the tone quality will always be as good as the weakest component, I would first identify that (weakest component).

If that is the amp at the moment, get an amp, if those are pickups, get those, if it's the fingers, get a teacher  :twisted:


+1
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 01:52:51 PM
Quote from: Mr Ed
I got a practically brand new Marshall 1936 2x12 off eBay for £180 and then spent £120 on a pair of Vintage 30's for it.

I'd say eBay's your best bet.


doesn't sound very budget to me...... i know ebay's my best bet, although too many cabs are pick up only.

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Mr Ed on February 06, 2007, 01:54:32 PM
Well, I personally don't like the stock Celestion speakers... but, if you do then £180's not a great outlay really.

One gets what one pays for.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 02:38:30 PM
i don't like them either, but 180 is a lot for a 1936 and 120 is a lot for a pair of V30s.....
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Crazy_Joe on February 06, 2007, 03:24:21 PM
I got my 1936 off ebay for about £150 though it might have been less, havn't replaced the speakers yet though i would like too in the future.
I use it with my Laney GH50L and it sounds pretty darn good especially with my Ceramic Warpig too  :twisted:

Don't get the Hotplate for a while, you might not even want it when you get the amp, you might find that you don't need it straight away, i havn't seen the need to get one yet though i have been tempted to buy one off ebay cheap.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 03:39:48 PM
yeah, £150 sounds more like it, just maybe ever so slightly cheaper (10-20 quid). i might not upgrade speakers instantly.

yeah, i doubt i will need a hotplate, having never heard one myself  :)

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 03:40:34 PM
on another note..... where are all the GH50Ls on ebay??? grrr
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: maliciousteve on February 06, 2007, 03:52:17 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laney-VC50-Valve-Guitar-Amp-Great-Cond-killer-sound_W0QQitemZ130075122074QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is pretty cool. It's basically the VH100R preamp in a 2 x 12 combo. Very good amps and hard to come by.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Crazy_Joe on February 06, 2007, 03:58:51 PM
Quote from: BLOODMOUNTAIN
on another note..... where are all the GH50Ls on ebay??? grrr


Same when i was looking for one, i just gave in and got a new one!

But check out Steve's suggestion, looks like a great combo!
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 04:47:49 PM
Quote from: maliciousteve
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laney-VC50-Valve-Guitar-Amp-Great-Cond-killer-sound_W0QQitemZ130075122074QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is pretty cool. It's basically the VH100R preamp in a 2 x 12 combo. Very good amps and hard to come by.


REALLY? is that a VH100R relative? thats even better.... i would save money, plus i would get to play it instantly (without hunting for cabs), and it's more versatile than a GH50L....... oh my god it's incredible!! (little bit too much GAS here, but you know how it is)

thanks!!! BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: indysmith on February 06, 2007, 04:53:44 PM
http://www.thomann.de/gb/framus_fr212_cs_cb.htm
yu probably know that framus make killer Metal amps (listen to killswitch engage).
This has v30s, and shipping for orders over 300euros is freeeeee(throw in a pack of strings, or a speaker cable)
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 04:59:12 PM
yeah thanks, that looks good..... but still, it'll all cost me around 400-450 quid, when i could buy that combo for 200-250 quid.......

can you put 6L6s in the VC50? it says 5881 or EL34.....

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: dave_mc on February 06, 2007, 06:10:47 PM
^ far as I know, 5881 are swappable with 6L6- if I remember correctly, 5881 are kind of "industrial" versions of 6L6.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 06:27:37 PM
thanks for the info. would the VC50 with 6L6s in be good for death metal?

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Davey on February 06, 2007, 06:30:23 PM
with a good overdrive


yes
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: maliciousteve on February 06, 2007, 07:15:03 PM
Heavy/Chuggy rhythms will sound great with the VC50 and 6L6's. You probably won't even need an overdrive pedal.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Davey on February 06, 2007, 07:17:32 PM
yes you will...

the low end is not tight enough, when the gain is up high (for me at least)
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 06, 2007, 07:18:03 PM
:guitar4:  :twisted:  :guitar4:  :twisted:  :guitar4:  :twisted:  :guitar4:

sounds just awesome!!!!
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 07, 2007, 12:29:12 PM
damnit this amp seems to be shooting up in price...... why does it have to be discontinued??? this is worse than trying to find a GH50L!!!
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: broken cord on February 08, 2007, 03:40:58 AM
I'm a +1 for the Hotplate. I have a Soldano Atomic 16 I play through at home and the dear wifey appreciates the low volume as I get to appreciate the baking tube sound. 16ohm, but it has a home.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Dakine on February 08, 2007, 10:46:17 AM
<Knows of a GH50L for £250
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 08, 2007, 04:58:57 PM
WHO????
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 08, 2007, 08:15:18 PM
Was on the 'bay.

With a cab iirc.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Dakine on February 08, 2007, 09:05:22 PM
Well, hope ya find summit.
But WHY look soooooooo hard when ya gotta sell your amp first and need to 'test' before folks will let ya buy?
I UNDERSTAND their thinking but why not 'chill ya heels' as obviously you cannot do anything right now.
Just my thoughts.
Good luck, ya never know that one may still be around when you are ready.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 08, 2007, 09:17:07 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/50Watt-Valve-Guitar-Amplifier-Laney-Amp-Marshall-Cab_W0QQitemZ150088620323QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*wink*
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laney-GH50L-50-Watt-Tube-Guitar-Head-Amp_W0QQitemZ260084518608QQihZ016QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*wink*
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 08, 2007, 09:24:22 PM
Quote from: Dakine
Well, hope ya find summit.
But WHY look soooooooo hard when ya gotta sell your amp first and need to 'test' before folks will let ya buy?
I UNDERSTAND their thinking but why not 'chill ya heels' as obviously you cannot do anything right now.
Just my thoughts.
Good luck, ya never know that one may still be around when you are ready.


well, i could buy the GH50L first, then sell my MG250DFX, there would be no problem there, i would just borrow money off the folks, then pay them back when amp is sold.

but yeah i see where you are going with the testing thing. i don't see why i wont like the amp, especially if i whack my EQ700 in front  :twisted:
i have asked another Laney dealer in my area (of the few!) if they have it. fingers crossed!

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 08, 2007, 09:24:57 PM
Quote from: noodleplugerine
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/50Watt-Valve-Guitar-Amplifier-Laney-Amp-Marshall-Cab_W0QQitemZ150088620323QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*wink*
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laney-GH50L-50-Watt-Tube-Guitar-Head-Amp_W0QQitemZ260084518608QQihZ016QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*wink*


hehe thanks
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: noodleplugerine on February 08, 2007, 09:27:24 PM
Quote from: BLOODMOUNTAIN
Quote from: noodleplugerine
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/50Watt-Valve-Guitar-Amplifier-Laney-Amp-Marshall-Cab_W0QQitemZ150088620323QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*wink*
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laney-GH50L-50-Watt-Tube-Guitar-Head-Amp_W0QQitemZ260084518608QQihZ016QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

*wink*


hehe thanks


np
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 12, 2007, 08:12:20 PM
UPDATE:

i've narrowed the problem of my bad tone down to the source.
it's my Zoom 505II. i thought that it was just providing me with gain, but to my dismay, when i changed amp models, i noticed it was giving me a horrible cheapo amp simulation.
what would you suggest me do now? still go for the amp? or get a good distortion or amp modeler? (namely the Behringer GDI21, because i love V-Tone modeling)

thanks, BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: Crazy_Joe on February 12, 2007, 08:37:32 PM
Depends what you want really, if you want a good amp distortion go for a Laney, but you don't get any brutal tones until you can crank it up so keep that in mind.
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 12, 2007, 11:05:43 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Joe
Depends what you want really, if you want a good amp distortion go for a Laney, but you don't get any brutal tones until you can crank it up so keep that in mind.


DAMNED DECISIONS!!!

i would like brutal tones, my GM108 gives me brutality, so the GDI21 through my Marshall should..... but apparently the Laney isn't brutal....  :?
maybe i should try the GDI21 though the Laney..... that's an idea! the basic sound of the Laney, with the brutality of the GDI21.......

BM
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: _tom_ on February 12, 2007, 11:07:25 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Joe
Depends what you want really, if you want a good amp distortion go for a Laney, but you don't get any brutal tones until you can crank it up so keep that in mind.


Hence the need for a hotplate  :roll:
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 12, 2007, 11:17:45 PM
i don't have enough money for all this!!!
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: HTH AMPS on February 12, 2007, 11:35:04 PM
I don't understand the mentality of spending £250 on a hotplate just so your amp sounds good in the bedroom.  I've yet to play a gig where I've needed a hotplate - by the time you get to gig volumes your amp will be cooking anyway.

Those GH50L heads are awesome - kick something like an SD1 in the front end and you'll have all the gain you could ever want.

 :twisted:
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: _tom_ on February 12, 2007, 11:53:23 PM
I know what you're saying HTH, but I dont have a practise amp, and want to have a good tone at bedroom volumes. A good modeler for bedroom practise would perhaps be better for the same price as a new hotplate.

Saying that, I think that £250 is way too much for an attenuator, hence why I will only buy one used for much cheaper :D
Title: BKs or Amp???
Post by: BloodMountain on February 13, 2007, 08:44:25 AM
Quote from: HEAVIER THAN HELL
I don't understand the mentality of spending £250 on a hotplate just so your amp sounds good in the bedroom.  I've yet to play a gig where I've needed a hotplate - by the time you get to gig volumes your amp will be cooking anyway.

Those GH50L heads are awesome - kick something like an SD1 in the front end and you'll have all the gain you could ever want.

 :twisted:


Thanks, dude, i don't feel as confused now  :D

i'll just get the damn GH50L, and see what happens. you can always change valves, experiment with cabs, experiment with OD pedals in front of it.... the list goes on.
yeah, good point about the gig stuff..... by the time it's that loud, those valves will be singing!

BM