Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: suckerpunch on February 10, 2007, 11:29:48 PM
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hello,
I've got a Jackson USA Soloist bolt-on with an alder body, maple neck, ebony fingerboard, Schaller Floyd, and 25.5" scale length. it has a single humbucker at the bridge with a single volume control.
how would the Painkiller bridge sound in this guitar? I'm needing clean to full-metal rage.
I play mainly older metal...Venom, Judas Priest, Candlemass, Mercyful Fate, King Diamond, Metal Church, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Exciter, Accept, et al.
would the Painkiller fit the bill? or should I check out the Holy Diver or Miracle Man instead?
many thanks
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I would say Painkiller first choice then a tie with either the HD or MM.
:twisted:
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the Painkiller is first on my list...just going by the description and sound clips.
but I just listened to Antag's clean clip of the Holy Diver :o Holy shite is more like it.....absolutely beautiful electric clean. still debating on the HD's distortion tone.
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the Painkiller is first on my list...just going by the description and sound clips.
but I just listened to Antag's clean clip of the Holy Diver :o Holy shitee is more like it.....absolutely beautiful electric clean. still debating on the HD's distortion tone.
I was sold on Antag's clips of the HD through his Mesa/Boogie F-50 (at least I think that's what it was). Did you listen to those? The HD sounds amazing with distortion.
Truth be told, the HD is Alnico V, and the Painkiller is ceramic. I would think if you want some level of versatility (clean, dirty and everything in between), I'd go with the HD. If it's straight metal and hard rock with no chance of playing clean I'd go with the Painkiller.
I currently have the MM and Ceramic Warpig and just ordered the Holy Divers for an Ibanez I won on EBay (destined to arrive on Monday). If you can wait a week or two, I can side-by-side these three pickups and give you my opinion. Right now I can say that the ceramic Warpig is awesome, but the Miracle Man is definitely more versatile...and I'm expecting more versatility with the Holy Diver.
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I think the tossup here is between the Miracle Man and the Cold Sweat. The Cold Sweat is more dynamic, and a bit more vintage sounding (to my ears): perfect for old Mercyful Fate, Defenders era Priest, and old Maiden. The Miracle Man will get you a more late 80s metal sound, especially through a Marshall or modded Marshall.
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Here is a quick video clip shot @ my gig last night.
Both guitars are using a Cold Sweat pup in the bridge. The video quality is pants, but the sound is very clean.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=aHlRSU5FNkdveE41VEE9PQ
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Holy Diver for classic 80's, for a more scooped old school tone i say Miracle Man for a less powerful Miracle Man go for Cold Sweat if that makes any sense.
From the bands you have mentioned i would go for a Holy Diver.
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Holy Diver for classic 80's, for a more scooped old school tone i say Miracle Man for a less powerful Miracle Man go for Cold Sweat if that makes any sense.
From the bands you have mentioned i would go for a Holy Diver.
What are you basing that opinion on?
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On Tim's advice.
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Based on the wood type in the guitar (alder body, maple neck, ebony fingerboard) I would say that the Cold Sweat or Miracle Man may have the potential to be too bright.
That and the fact that he wants to ability to go "clean to metal", I'll say the Holy Diver. Ceramics historically just don't clean up as well as Alnico, and the Holy Diver sounds great clean and distorted from what I can tell by Antag's clips.
Regardless, I would ask Tim. He's responded to every one of my pickup inquiries.
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^ TonyGibson, that sounds like a sound way to go about it, but I beg to differ on the Cold Sweat's ability to play clean. I get a great clean tone out of mine. The Miracle Man requires an extremely clean amp to play dead clean, but it can still be done. Of the two, I prefer the clean tone on the CS to the MM, however. Just like getting sick drive out of a VHII is possible, if you work for it, the same is true with respects to the CS and MM.
While I think that asking Tim for a guideline is all well and good, ultimately you're still betting that one man's opinion will fit your sonic descriptions. I know, for my taste, I prefer a much brighter sound than Tim does. I use the Cold Sweat in a guitar that Tim was very iffy on. It sounds fantastic.
I would contrast this by saying that I find the Holy Diver to be too rolled off in the high freqs for my taste, but I've used the pup extensively, both live and on recordings using my own rig, and have a good grasp on what styles of metal I think it would work with.
When push comes to shove, I'm only stating my opinion, but it's backed by countless hours of playing BKs. It's far from an uninformed opinion, or garnered soley from an email that Tim sent me.
The catch-all just ask Tim discredits a lot of people on this forum that have a very deep understanding of BKs and what they are capable of.
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The catch-all just ask Tim discredits a lot of people on this forum that have a very deep understanding of BKs and what they are capable of.
Wasn't my intent. What I should have stated is that Tim is probably the guy who's going to wind the pickup as well. Once you explain to him exactly what you want, he will wind the pickup in a way that closely mirrors what you're requesting. These aren't "stock" pickups anyway you slice it. That being the case, he has a HUGE part in what the pickup is going to sound like and his opinion holds a great deal of weight.
No attempt was made here to discredit those who actually use this stuff in the real world. Those opinions matter quite a bit...but not quite as much as the guy who actually hand builds these things. Case in point:
1) Tony wants a Warpig set
2) Tony does not want a "stock" Warpig in neck
3) Tony tells Tim precisely want he wants to hear in a neck pickup and gets his Warpig wound to that description
To be fair I have zero experience with the CS bridge or HD bridge (yet)....I do have the CS neck though and it does cleanup great.
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I get you, Tony. I'm not trying to kick up dust. I've just noticed a trend on this forum in particular in which people pass comment on pickups they've never tried, based off of an email or PM. It's not the same thing, in my opinion, by a long shot.
There is also a misconception that Tim is personally winding the pickups he recommends. This is a business, and while I'm sure Tim winds his fair share of pups, a lot of the actual work is put onto a work order and made by someone else interpreting what Tim has written down.
I've never seen a penchant as strong as the one on this forum to disregard the experience of players. There's little point in someone like myeslf, antag, PhilKing, 38thBeatle, JohnnyMac, and others to even bother passing along our experience if it's always superceded by Just ask Tim, he'll set you right.
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I've never seen a penchant as strong as the one on this forum to disregard the experience of players. There's little point in someone like myeslf, antag, PhilKing, 38thBeatle, JohnnyMac, and others to even bother passing along our experience if it's always superceded by Just ask Tim, he'll set you right.
I feel you, and I listened to TONS of clips before picking out my last set (the Holy Divers based on Antag's clips).
Also, I really dig the video clip you uploaded in this thread...at one point I was considered putting a CS bridge in the my LP (it's currently an MM bridge and CS neck)...that clips just further convinces me that I may want to do that (or just have an excuse to buy another guitar and put a Cold Sweat set in. ;) )
You and I are definitely on the same page. To me real world"experience means more to me than any amount of technical "facts" based on magnet types, DC resistance, etc. The fact that you and many other players are actually using this stuff in the real world and taking the time to upload clips is a big reason why I come to this forum and ask questions here as opposed to just bombarding Tim with emails.
Again, I would like to see a change in what you stated (disregarding the experience of players) as this does undermine what this forum is for.
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I really dig the video clip you uploaded in this thread...at one point I was considered putting a CS bridge in the my LP (it's currently an MM bridge and CS neck)...that clips just further convinces me that I may want to do that (or just have an excuse to buy another guitar and put a Cold Sweat set in. ;) )
LOL ... Yeah, the dual Cold Sweat assault we have going on at the moment is just sick!
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I get you, Tony. I'm not trying to kick up dust. I've just noticed a trend on this forum in particular in which people pass comment on pickups they've never tried, based off of an email or PM. It's not the same thing, in my opinion, by a long shot.
There is also a misconception that Tim is personally winding the pickups he recommends. This is a business, and while I'm sure Tim winds his fair share of pups, a lot of the actual work is put onto a work order and made by someone else interpreting what Tim has written down.
I've never seen a penchant as strong as the one on this forum to disregard the experience of players. There's little point in someone like myeslf, antag, PhilKing, 38thBeatle, JohnnyMac, and others to even bother passing along our experience if it's always superceded by Just ask Tim, he'll set you right.
I know what your saying here and to an extent i agree that people with the pickups know what it's about. However, if like most people you only have 1 or two amps and stick to the same sound then the pickup won't sound the same as it does in your setup so sometimes it would be better to ask Tim the person who came up with the pickup and who has tested it in various guitars and amps.
Not having a go here just saying what i think!
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^ I agree 100%. However, in all honesty, I think I have access to more amps than might be generally known! Just because I talk about one in particular does not mean I've not used others.
I think it's possible to have an intelligent conversation where people have varying opinions without it turning into a slag fest.
I think I've said everything else clearly enuff.
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Yeah i think people get the wrong idea sometimes and tend to forget it's just a pickup discussion at the end of the day.
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what is this, some kind of pissing contest. screw it, I'll just throw in an EMG 81.
JUST KIDDING!!!!!!! :lol:
looks like next payday I'll be ordering a Holy Diver, Painkiller, and Cold Sweat and let my ears decide which I like best.
thanks for the great input!
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looks like next payday I'll be ordering a Holy Diver, Painkiller, and Cold Sweat and let my ears decide which I like best.
You must be made of money, as my Gran used to say. :wink:
Will you keep all three, or sell the silver and bronze medallists?
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You must be made of money, as my Gran used to say. :wink:
Will you keep all three, or sell the silver and bronze medallists?
HAH!! I wish. no it just means that I'll be surviving on tap water, romen noodles, and p & j samwiches for awhile :( :D I'll definitely keep the remaining 2 pups for future axes.
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I held off on this thread because I usually let TO answer the metal questions, however in this case I just thought I should list the pickups and amps that our opinions are based on:
Pickups/guitars
53 Les Paul with Black Dogs
86 Goldtop with Cold Sweat/Pain killer
Custom Les Paul with PAF rewind and Riff Raff
67 335 with Stormy Monday set (AII)
79 Hamer Sunburst with Abraxas set
Zemaitis Clone with Emerald/Mule
Richwood Explorer with Warpig/MQ
PRS Artist with VHII set
PRS Standard with Rebel Yell set
PRS EG4 with Crawler/2xP90
Warmoth PRS clone with Miracle Man set
Super Strat with Holy Diver/2xTrilogy Suite
Ibanez with Nailbomb/Irish Tour/Cold Sweat
Double cut LP Junior with Pig-90
60 LP Standard with BK P-90 Rewind
Custom set neck with MQ/Slowhand/Mini-Mule
57 Strat with Apache Set
custom hollow strat with Irish Tour set
60 Strat with BK rewind and 2 original pickups
57 Tele with Brown Sugar and Slowhand
59 Esquire with Piledriver
Custom Strat with Cold Sweat
Kamakazie with Miracle Man
Strat with VHII/Irish Tour
Wayne with Cold Sweat/Trilogy Suite
Agile LP with Riff Raff/Stormy Monday (AIV)
66 P-Bass with BK P-bass pickup
Then there are lots of original 50's.60's and 70's guitars with the original pickups and also many after market original replacement pickups including SD, DiMarzio, Tom Holmes, Bill Lawrence, EMG, Mighty Mite, Lace and others who disappeared because the pickups were bad (Ultrasonic come to mind!)
Amps
Marshall Silver Jubilee
Fender Blackface Princeton Reverb
Fender Princeton II
Splawn Quickrod
Laney 30 watt
Diezel VH4 & Herbert
Roccaforte custom 80
Matamp Mini Mat, GT1
Several custom made McIntyre amps (Studio 205/Bluesmaker/Prince o'Wails, SP3)
Lexicon Signature 284
Victoria Bassman
Comet (Trainwreck)
Cornford 50 & 100
VHT Pitbull
Carr Slant 6
Also VG88 & Johnson J-Station modelling amps.
I think this might just constitute more than one or two amps and sticking to one sound. It might also explain why we do come up with some ideas on sounds and also the best pickup combinations.
I have tried several of the pickups in different guitars before finding the one that worked best for them.
Tim will definately steer you right if you ask him, but don't think that other people haven't tried a lot of options before they answer.
As I mentioned at the start, I don't normally answer anything on metal because TO knows so much more about it than me (Classic Rock and Blues are more of my forte), but I think that it is good to know that when several of the older regulars make a posting, they are basing their opinion on a wealth of knowledge and not just hearsay.
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Well that would certainly beat on my book the usual " well I had a friend ..... who knew somebody , and he heard once........"
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Whatever happened to the Nailbomb talk on this forum? I just got one recently and it is excellent. Clean through metal no problem.
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I held off on this thread because I usually let TO answer the metal questions, however in this case I just thought I should list the pickups and amps that our opinions are based on:
Pickups/guitars
53 Les Paul with Black Dogs
86 Goldtop with Cold Sweat/Pain killer
Custom Les Paul with PAF rewind and Riff Raff
67 335 with Stormy Monday set (AII)
79 Hamer Sunburst with Abraxas set
Zemaitis Clone with Emerald/Mule
Richwood Explorer with Warpig/MQ
PRS Artist with VHII set
PRS Standard with Rebel Yell set
PRS EG4 with Crawler/2xP90
Warmoth PRS clone with Miracle Man set
Super Strat with Holy Diver/2xTrilogy Suite
Ibanez with Nailbomb/Irish Tour/Cold Sweat
Double cut LP Junior with Pig-90
60 LP Standard with BK P-90 Rewind
Custom set neck with MQ/Slowhand/Mini-Mule
57 Strat with Apache Set
custom hollow strat with Irish Tour set
60 Strat with BK rewind and 2 original pickups
57 Tele with Brown Sugar and Slowhand
59 Esquire with Piledriver
Custom Strat with Cold Sweat
Kamakazie with Miracle Man
Strat with VHII/Irish Tour
Wayne with Cold Sweat/Trilogy Suite
Agile LP with Riff Raff/Stormy Monday (AIV)
66 P-Bass with BK P-bass pickup
Then there are lots of original 50's.60's and 70's guitars with the original pickups and also many after market original replacement pickups including SD, DiMarzio, Tom Holmes, Bill Lawrence, EMG, Mighty Mite, Lace and others who disappeared because the pickups were bad (Ultrasonic come to mind!)
Amps
Marshall Silver Jubilee
Fender Blackface Princeton Reverb
Fender Princeton II
Splawn Quickrod
Laney 30 watt
Diezel VH4 & Herbert
Roccaforte custom 80
Matamp Mini Mat, GT1
Several custom made McIntyre amps (Studio 205/Bluesmaker/Prince o'Wails, SP3)
Lexicon Signature 284
Victoria Bassman
Comet (Trainwreck)
Cornford 50 & 100
VHT Pitbull
Carr Slant 6
Also VG88 & Johnson J-Station modelling amps.
I think this might just constitute more than one or two amps and sticking to one sound. It might also explain why we do come up with some ideas on sounds and also the best pickup combinations.
I have tried several of the pickups in different guitars before finding the one that worked best for them.
Tim will definately steer you right if you ask him, but don't think that other people haven't tried a lot of options before they answer.
As I mentioned at the start, I don't normally answer anything on metal because TO knows so much more about it than me (Classic Rock and Blues are more of my forte), but I think that it is good to know that when several of the older regulars make a posting, they are basing their opinion on a wealth of knowledge and not just hearsay.
Now thats just showing off! :lol:
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Yeah, but it's very cool showing off. 8)
That's such a frighteningly awesome array of gear that I can't even get jealous! It's waaaaaaay beyond any league I could imagine. :D
I have confidence in TO and PhilKing's judgements at the level I have confidence in the BKP guys. They have done the research, they know the results!
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Now thats just showing off! :lol:
It was really to make the point that when TO gives his opinion it is not based on one or two amps with one sound.
That's such a frighteningly awesome array of gear that I can't even get jealous! It's waaaaaaay beyond any league I could imagine. :D
It comes of 30 years of collecting and having never grown up, and probably also because I was living in the States for 25 of those years. I have been very lucky in that I also had a job that let me make enough to buy the guitars, and I was single for a lot of the time, so that helped too!
Some of the more exotic amps are in Ultrasound rehearsal studios in NYC, but since TO is in there at least 2 hours every week, I think we can say we have a lot of experience with them. I have taken in several guitars with him and we have tried a lot of the amps. It is really good because you get to compare the amps at all sorts of settings and without the music shop heros standing around!!!
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Sounds like heaven to me Phil- what a great way to spend time, in a room with that gear.I would never want to leave. I have some mates with some lovely guitars and amps and I get to use their gear, they get to use mine and we compare notes-in more ways than one. Mrs 38th goes bananas sometimes -imagine if I were let loose with that little lot-she'd kill me.
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Something extra to add to this interesting thread. TO and Phil say some interesting things about comparing numerous BKPs and amps, and TO states that he "likes a brighter tone than Tim" and that people shouldn't just "ask Tim". I agree with this, but would go further.
What it's worth doing is listening to the opinion of EVERYONE and coming to your own conclusions. Yes, person X may never have played with a particular pickup, but they will have read about that model here on the forum, spoken to Tim, heard it a the LGS etc. Some opinions you disregard, some you take on board, then you decide what's best for you.
Consult far and wide, form your own opinion. That's my advice.
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yup thought I had been and tried or had a lot of gear...am just an amateur,
slightly jealous....but thinkin more along the lines...can I come round and have a play? *L*
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and yeah listen to what others have to say...is a lot of experienced guitarists with many different styles and guitars...but in the end the decision is yours
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...just listened to Antag's clean clip of the Holy Diver :o Holy shitee is more like it.....absolutely beautiful electric clean. still debating on the HD's distortion tone.
Glad you liked my clean clip :D
Of the 3 pickups mentioned at the start of this thread, I'd choose the Holy Diver. It sounds fantastic in alder bodied guitars, I love its lead sound & IMO it's miles ahead of the MM or PK on cleans.
Even if cleans weren't a consideration I'd still probably choose HD - don't make the mistake of thinking it's the "soft" option of the 3, it has a lot of grunt & only slightly less output than the MM, but I'm biased because it's my favourite BKP :)
I only have a Cold Sweat neck so can't comment on the bridge...
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I must say, I'm very glad to see this thread 'take the high road' after some totally unnecessarily bad threads of late.
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I must say, I'm very glad to see this thread 'take the high road' after some totally unnecessarily bad threads of late.
That's because everybody "Just asked Tim"....
I KEED, I KEED. :P
Sorry, couldn't resist!
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^ LOL
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Must have caught us all in a good mood for a change :wink:
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I held off on this thread because I usually let TO answer the metal questions, however in this case I just thought I should list the pickups and amps that our opinions are based on:
(etc)
Wow! Given that highly impressive list of equipment and pickups, I was wondering, Phil - and Ben - do you have an overall favourite BKP? And are there any you (whisper) don't like?
Just curious...
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Yes, there are pups I prefer more than others, and there are a couple I don't get on with, or have yet to hear in a way that has caught my imagination.
But my hands-down, all-around favourite?
Miracle Man, no doubt about it.
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Yeah, but it's very cool showing off. 8)
That's such a frighteningly awesome array of gear that I can't even get jealous! It's waaaaaaay beyond any league I could imagine. :D
I have confidence in TO and PhilKing's judgements at the level I have confidence in the BKP guys. They have done the research, they know the results!
+1. If you set me down in a room with that level of awesome kit you'd probably need to have a crash cart (I think that's the right term, the defibrilator thingy) in there too to resuscitate me.
:lol:
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But my hands-down, all-around favourite?
Miracle Man, no doubt about it.
I was guessing you'd say MM, VHII or CS - my money was on Cold Sweat, so I got that wrong. :wink:
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With all those guitars and amps, why would you expect me to have one favourite!!
I think that my overall favourite is the Stormy Monday (in a PAF style humbucker), but the Emerald is a very nice pickup too, and the Rebel Yell is definately SEG time :lol: . The Apache is my favourite strat pickup (so far - still waiting on the Mothers Milks!).
It took me a long time to get happy with the Abraxas, I knew it could sound great, but in my LP it just wasn't what I wanted (unlike the Black Dogs which replaced them and are also a great set). I finally decided to try it in the Hamer, and bingo, the sound was right where I wanted it.
I am still on the fence with the Painkiller, but then I am not a metal guitarist, so this is probably why. I am going to try it in a HH strat, which might be a better home for it.
The other set that took me a while to tame, was my Irish Tour set, but that was also my fault really - I got them with a reverse vintage stagger, which puts the longest magnets under the G, B & E, making them brighter. I have them in a guitar with a reverse slant bridge pickup and they work out well in there.
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With all those guitars and amps, why would you expect me to have one favourite!!
I didn't think you would have, just interested to see what you'd say! :lol:
I wondered if you'd mention the Emerald - it's still the BK humbucker I feel I know least about. It gets the occasional mention but I still haven't got a clear idea how it sounds compared with the other models. I'm tempted to get a set sometime, not sure which guitar they'll go in though.
Thanks Phil!