Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Dane on March 01, 2007, 12:09:22 PM
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Hi can u guys tell me more about this two pups. I am contemplating to get which one. I want a great blues, rock tone and also do high gain very well. Can u tell me more of the two pups to those who own one b4. I am putting it in a Gibson SG.
Thx
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Why don't you just mix 'em?
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Although they're beefy, I don't know if I'd put crawlers in an SG, might end up a bit dark. Mules should be ok or how about Rebel yells? A bright cutting bridge and warmer neck pup should be good for blues.
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How about Riff Raffs?
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well i dunnoe how da Rebel Yell is or the Riff Raff mind sharing ur opinions on y u recommend the pups.
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gingataff y do u tink Crawler will be abit dark 4 my SG???
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Hi guys Pls i need ur help man. I wanna have a Pups to be able 2 pull Led Zepplin and ACDC.. Which will be gd?? Mule, Riff Raff, VH II, Black DOg???
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In an SG, I would definitely go with a Riff Raff in the bridge, and maybe a Riff Raff neck or a Stormy Monday. I run the latter set in a LP clone for my ultimate 70s hard rock tone ...
The Riff Raff is a PAF style pickup with a bit more bite, but still stays clean. Even with a lot of gain, it retains clarity and control.
The Stormy Monday is an exact PAF replica down to the slightest detail.
Here are a couple of quick clips with my combination in action:
http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=4583926&q=hi
http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=4580565&q=hi
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I been hearing Riff Raff are Bright. How bright are they.???
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I been hearing Riff Raff are Bright. How bright are they.???
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I have a Riff Raff in an SG and I'd say it's clear, but not especially bright.
If you imagine a "typical" PAF-type tone (I know there are lots of PAF variations, but I guess you know roughly what I mean), the Riff Raff is just a bit drier and grittier, still versatile but a little bit more of a "rock" pickup.
It's not a knock-your-socks-off sound where you notice a huge difference straight away, you have to spend a bit of time playing with it to see what it's capable of. And it's great for 70s hard rock tones.
My SG only has one pickup, but I think the RR would be great with a sweet-toned neck pickup like the Stormy Monday, as Ben suggested.
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Mules are awesome for classic rock and blues rock tones, and seem generally reckoned to sound good everywhere. Maybe even SGs :) but I don't have enough experience with SGs to have a good sense about them. I really like the Crawlers in my LP -- like hot PAF + extra grunt in the mids -- but I really couldn't say how they'd sit in an SG -- I don't know that I've heard any clips of that combo ....
Clearly, Riff Raffs work great in SGs. They do seem to be considered bright, though they're still within the range of classic PAF (which is pretty much a range of specs, rather than any specific spec).
What about MQs? Should they be being considered here?
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Guys wats da dif wif alnico II n alnico IV
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Tim has posted at length on the Alnico II vs. IV things, as I recall. Do a search and you'll probably find his words in various threads.
However, I saved from notes from him back when I was initially researching what pups I wanted for my LP; Tim wrote:
Alnico II is the softest and generally has a smooth bass and treble although this is more pronounced the hotter the windings get .... Alnico IV is probably the best vintage tone IMHO and along with II and III was used in the earliest PAFs-this is a fact and not myth as we've had them analyzed and a colleague of mine has also seen original Gibson purchase orders that clearly state AIV bar stock being purchased. The tone of AIV is balanced and extremely organic, it produces the most authentic vintage tone and sits better in slightly hotter vintage winds than AII which tends to get very mushy if used incorrectly.
That probably covers a lot of it, and the rest of my memory is that Tim gfenerally prefers IV over II for most applications, though he has a supply of A2s now that work very well in the lower output vintage-style pups (like the Stormy Monday). I gather relatively few other manufacturers use A4s as extensively as BKP; A4s are relatively expensive compared to A2.
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Well thx 4 clearing dat.. so wif dat said will it be gd 2 have abraxas in my SG???
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I think the Abraxai 8) are great pups, and really love the clips I've heard from them. Similar in some respects to the Crawlers, but with the bridge voiced very much more like a hot Mule (without the mid-range bump that the Crawlers have. The Crawler bridge is an A5, I believe, but Tim using the same wind with an A4 for the Crawler and Abraxas necks). If Mules work in an SG, I guess Abraxai would -- but you really need someone more familiar with SGs than myself to chime in on this!
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The Mule is based on the original
Gibson PAF, and the Nailbomb
resides on the aggressive high-output
side with organic harmonic
qualities. The Rebel Yell, however,
gives you the best of both worlds.
This pickup set is a tone connoisseur’s
dream, since it so easily
covers a variety of styles and
sounds. Make no mistake, though:
It definitely isn’t middle-of-theroad,
and don’t even think about
calling it generic. No doubt this
level of versatility was the goal,
and it was certainly achieved
I quoted dis from
http://www.musicianshotline.com/pdf/gearreview/200606_bareknucklepickups_rebel.pdf
How true is dis??
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I think, based on the oft-repeated theory that medium-output pickups tend to "mush out" in mahogany guitars, the Abraxai and Crawlers may not work in an SG.
Tim tends to recommend either vintage-output or high-output (MM, PK, WP) pickups for SGs. And even with Mules, I think the recommendation was for Alnico V (with slightly more hollow mids) rather than Alnico IV.
Rebel Yells, on the other hand, work very well in mahogany even though they're medium-output, because they're bright with tons of presence.
Just my 2c worth...
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Well dats is da prob im afcing wif choosing a BKP 4 my SG. I am set 4 Crwler but im afaried it will mush out. Den Mules but some say it dun sound gd in SG. N Rebel Yell well i dunnoe if i will like it as i do not noe much abt it. The tone im after are more to Angus, Page, Eric, but on a day i feel like it i wanna do heavy riffing. Can i have someone who ahve changed theirs SG pups to BKP come forward n help me out plz..... :cry:
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The Riff Raffs will do your Angus, Page and Clapton stuff no problem. As for high gain/heavy riffing, I think it depends what style you mean - they'll do heavy in a stoner/doom kind of way. 70s heavy, basically. If you want Pantera, Lamb Of God, anything "modern", I'm no expert on that stuff but I don't think the Riff Raffs will go there.
The Rebel Yell's a bright but "big" sounding pickup. It's versatile, but it always has a lot of punch and presence, it definitely won't mush out. If you played ONLY classic rock or ONLY heavier stuff, I don't think it would be the first choice for either. But it might be the best all-rounder for a mahogany guitar.
I haven't tried Crawlers but I definitely want a set, just not sure what guitar they'll go in. I know they're voiced to work in either Strats or Les Pauls, but I think the maple cap of an LP makes a difference - they might mush out in an SG, I don't know.
Dunno what else to say really. Tim's comments in this (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1455&highlight=sg) thread are really useful, if you haven't seen them already.
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sorry late post but crawlers ain't dark in an sg
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sorry late post but crawlers ain't dark in an sg
Phew, that's good, I'm glad there's someone who's got Crawlers in an SG! :D
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sgmypod: u got crawlers in ur SG?? How is it??? Can u tell me more abt it...??
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Well i heard also dat Crwlers neck is to die for. How true is dis?? N dat is y i am contemplating btw Crawler or mule. Some say Crawler is like a hotter version of mule. Can someone pls help me. Dis is wat u get wen there is so many options dat is all gd n helps ur need. Juz need to know which is perfect for me.
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The Crawler neck is the same as the Abraxas neck - think sweet, singing, Carlos Santana tone. That's what it does.
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Well i heard also dat Crwlers neck is to die for. How true is dis??
Totally true! But, of course, I'm the one who's usually saying that. :)
N dat is y i am contemplating btw Crawler or mule. Some say Crawler is like a hotter version of mule.
Actually, the Abraxas is more like a hotter Mule. The Crawler is like the Abraxas (so, like a hotter Mule in that way) but with more midrange on the bridge pickup. According to Tim, he uses the same neck pup for both the Crawler and Abraxas sets.
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So i have been tryin 2 get TIm but he is way i tink. For SG what is da pickup that he will recommend in a heartbeat. I mean a pickup that he made for sitting nicely in an SG. Im leanin more towards a Crawler set but juz worry if it muds out like wat Philly Q quoted that Tim do not recomend medium output for an SG. And even for mule its to be an Alnico V. Damn didnt tot dat choosing a pups 4 an SG is this much headache..
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For SG what is da pickup that he will recommend in a heartbeat. I mean a pickup that he made for sitting nicely in an SG.
Riff Raff.
Sorry, I know this isn't making your decision any easier.
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Riff Raff is, obviously, good in an SG.
But, seriously, would MQs or something be another possibility?
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well i noe Riff Raff adds terble an i am nt a person who embrace treble dat well.. Wat do u say..?? Lets compare a mule n Riff Raff?? Anyway damn y is da 1 i tink of puttin in my SG dun seem 2 be da 1 recoomended for an SG...
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I really don't think the Riff Raff is all that trebly, it's not like icepick-in-the-ear-time at all. If anything I notice the treble more with my Rebel Yell, but that might be because it's a more powerful pickup all round.
I've never tried a Mule, but as far as I know the main difference between it and the RR is that the Mule has a "hump" in the midrange. Output-wise, they're about the same. I would guess the Alnico V Mule sounds very close to the RR.
We're going round in circles, aren't we? I think your best bet is probably to call BKP and talk it through with Tim or one of the other guys.
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tried twinfans sg with riff raffs and was very sweet, slightly more treble than the neck crawler..but hard to tell, have changed bridge crawler now in sg but am sticking with the neck...it is to die for
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What did u change ur SG Bridge to??
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Well this is waht i email Tim maybe while waiting for him to come back some of u can help me out abit.
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Hi Tim
Well i juz got a 1996 SG Special with Ebony finger board. PLan to arm myself with ur BKP. The amp i am using is just a decent Peavey Bandit 112. I am looking to be more of a Guiitar Chord and Amp player so no effects.
I am very new to Guitar, just started about a year back. The music that i have always listen to are stuff from Jimi Hendrix, G n R, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Eric Clapton, Free, Grandfunk, Early-era Aerosmith, Metallica ( up to the black album only), Iron Maiden, Santana.
I am not that good or fast on the guitar and also i don't really fancy shredder, so i am also looking for a pick-up that is user friendly. I would like to get a vintage sound from the pick-up and it must sound very sweet on both the bridge and neck position. I love the neck pick-up tone more as it is very sweet.
The tone i am after is more of something like Santana Supernatural album like Smooth and Maria2.
(i noe i wont get exact tone, but something with the same vibe will do) I also want to be able to roll of the tone and get that amazing woman tone. I am not someone who embrace treble that well and do not want my SG to sound bright. And it must just sing and make the guitar cry. But also it shud be able to go mean if i want it to but not very often.
I initially thought of getting a mule or Cralwer but after asking fellow BKP forumites, they say it will mud out. So i am left blank as i did not expect it to be this difficult to choose a BKP for my SG as the choice i had seems not the right one for an SG. I was made even more confuse when i was recomended Riff Raff, SM, WarPig,RY. The reason i chose mule and Crawler in the 1st place was from the Cralwers Clips at the BKP webby adn the MUle clip done by u and HJM. and i fell in love wit the Crawler neck od clips.
CAn i get your help by listing for me what pick-ups u think suits me and tell me more about them so its easier for me to choose. Also i need a very good pick-up as i do not intend to use pedals to improve the tone or how it distort. Also i want to find out how would a Warpig handle blues, hot blues, Classic Rock?? And is teh RY alnico based pick-ups, and how will it sound ina n SG as i worry for ending up with more treble and being bright.
Also lastly give me an ans to this question, "If u were me what pick-up would you choose??"
Thx hope to hear from you very soon as i cant wait to get a BKP.
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Santana tone for an SG .... Well, would the Abraxas be wrong with the all-mahogany thing?
Way back in the 70s, Santana used a Yamaha SG, though I don't know what kind of pickups that had, nor whether that'd be right for the somewhat updated Supernatural tone. (I do love the tone on Supernatural, and think the Abraxas/Crawler neck definitely is taking one into that ballpark in a maple-capped LP ....). I think the Abraxas is voiced to triangulate between "classic" and "modern" Santana tones.
Are we overthinking this? Gibson put out that "Voodoo" SG with the 498T in the bridge and 490R in the neck, which is exactly what my LP Std came with (and what I replaced with Crawlers). Did that model SG have a mahogany body or something else? Maybe it was swamp ash, actually .... Anyway, perhaps Crawlers or Abraxas will indeed be just fine in an SG. The 498T/490N combo isn't a million miles away from an Abraxas or Crawler set (though not as good :)).
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Way back in the 70s, Santana used a Yamaha SG, though I don't know what kind of pickups that had, nor whether that'd be right for the somewhat updated Supernatural tone.
Yes, but a Yamaha SG is an entirely different guitar from a Gibson SG - through-neck, fat mahogany body, maple top. It has much more in common with a Les Paul than an SG, if anything. Even further back in the 60s, Santana did use a Gibson SG, with P-90s. He still sounded like Carlos Santana, but perhaps that shows that tone is more in the fingers than the equipment.
Gibson put out that "Voodoo" SG with the 498T in the bridge and 490R in the neck, which is exactly what my LP Std came with (and what I replaced with Crawlers). Did that model SG have a mahogany body or something else? Maybe it was swamp ash, actually ....
It was swamp ash, with a mahogany neck, but the current SG Standard also uses the 498T/490R combo. Then again, most people on this forum seem to think Gibson pickups are sh!t, so there's not much point trying to recommend pickups that sound like them.
All I'm doing is - dare I say - trying to be helpful by repeating what I've read and learned. One thing I've learned is that a pickup which sounds great in one type of guitar won't necessarily sound great in another. And I've tried to point out what Tim has recommended to other SG users, which is to go low-output or high-output, and avoid medium-output. I'm not saying that's right or wrong. I'm not trying to persuade anyone to buy one pickup, or put them off buying another.
Are we overthinking this?
Maybe.
What we are definitely doing is going round in circles.
Dane, if you want Crawlers then you should buy Crawlers. It's your choice, not anyone else's.
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To a warpig(a great sg pickup) that I had in my ibanez
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Well im appreciatitng all the advice i get. Just waiting for Tim the best man for the job to call it for me. As i hope he will come out with some idea that will work for me. He is suppose to be back on the 5th and i hope he reply soon.
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Btw how do a warpicg do clasic rock? i had a friend who use warpigs and it's sound awesome. He put da warpig in a custom-made guitar like Santana's PRS.
Listen to axe tester and also funk jam
http://www.myspace.com/pauldanial
1 more thing, since the warpig blanket the sound of the wood, does this means we don;t hear the wood at all.?? So will it sound almost similar in many guitars??
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Yes, but a Yamaha SG is an entirely different guitar from a Gibson SG - through-neck, fat mahogany body, maple top. It has much more in common with a Les Paul than an SG, if anything.
OK, that's worth knowing.
Even further back in the 60s, Santana did use a Gibson SG, with P-90s. He still sounded like Carlos Santana, but perhaps that shows that tone is more in the fingers than the equipment.
Definitely true. Give me Santana's set-up, and I'll still sound like pants! ;)
the current SG Standard also uses the 498T/490R combo. Then again, most people on this forum seem to think Gibson pickups are sh!t, so there's not much point trying to recommend pickups that sound like them.
I'll defend Gibson pickups! :) They're not shitee, they're just not nearly as good as BKPs. :) Even I can hear the difference.
At the very least, I've heard worse pickups than Gibson's.
What we are definitely doing is going round in circles.
Yep. OK, any useful knowledge I can contribute is long since exhausted here!
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I'll defend Gibson pickups! :) They're not shitee, they're just not nearly as good as BKPs. :) Even I can hear the difference.
At the very least, I've heard worse pickups than Gibson's.
Well yeah, I agree really. I don't think the 498T/490R combo sounds any worse than the "industry standard" Duncan JB/59n combo. I was just playing Devil's Advocate. :wink:
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I don't think the 498T/490R combo sounds any worse than the "industry standard" Duncan JB/59n combo. I was just playing Devil's Advocate. :wink:
;) Well, just to play Devil-dragging-this-thread-off-topic (but not very much, really), I'd have to agree. I stuck with the stock 498T/490R combo for over 10 years, knowing I wanted to replace it, but not find something clearly better. I considered the JB/59n combo early on, in the mid 90s, but wasn't sufficiently impressed to make the jump. I briefly flirted with the idea of the Gibson Iommi signature pickups when they came out, but mostly for the name :P and I don't think they would have worked they way I wanted, especially in an LP.
I went with the Crawlers (in my LP) partially on the strength of Tim's recommendation, but also because they didn't seem like they'd be radically different in intent from the 498T/490R combo, just better. I had decided I pretty much liked the way my stock pups were trying to sound, but they were a bit dull and mushy and didn't keep the definition there at higher gain and lower tunings. The Crawlers solved those problems very happily. :)
Alas, this post still has little to do with SGs. I will say that I've entertained the idea of getting an SG and loading it with Warpigs or Pig-90s ... but I haven't got the budget to do more than entertain that idea! :lol:
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Finally a reply from the man himself:
Hi,
I would recommend The Mule set-they definately won't mud out in your SG and they are very balanced across all frequencies so no harsh highs either.The neck is a touch lower output than the Crawler neck which will be good in an SG as it will balance better to the bridge.
I usually advise Stormy Monday humbuckers for SGs but because you want a warmer tone the Mules will be better in this case.
kind regards
Tim
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Well this mite be my final decision.. Mule bridge and MQ neck. Wat do u tink pple??? Btw wud a P-90 sound as fat as Humbucking or Thin like a strat?? As i lookin for a fate tone?? If it's thin den i'll go wif mule neck instead
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The MQ will sound much fatter than a Strat-type pickup, but it's still a single-coil. If you're going for a Santana tone I think you need a neck humbucker.
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So, in the end, maybe we're just back to a Mule set. :)
Mind you, that's a good set to have!
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Maybe not :twisted:
Wat abt Holydiver or Rebel Yell?? :lol:
I like da tone of the guy playing LP studio on hotel california on dis video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQDvZTotTBg
Wud dat be a job 4 mule or HD??
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Maybe not :twisted:
Wat abt Holydiver or Rebel Yell?? :lol:
No, stop!! :lol: :twisted:
I can't watch the video in work, but surely you don't need a Holydiver for playing Hotel California? And HD would definitely be too dark in an SG.
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If Tim says that middle-output pups (e.g. Rebel Yell, Holy Diver) don't work as well in SGs as lower-output (i.e. SM, Mule) or high output (Warpig), then I'd generally be inclined to believe him unless I was pretty sure that a middle-output pup was really, surely gonna give me the specific tone I wanted.
And, anyway, I'd think an SM or Mule would be fine for playing "Hotel California" :) and probably either would work well for Santana tones in an SG, probably better than a Holy Diver or Rebel Yell (RY, cool pup tho it is, is not what I think most people would recommend for Santana tones).
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Thx mule it is 4 me but 2 decide whether 2 have MQ or mule neck. Which do u tink can don a better woman tone??
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Thx mule it is 4 me but 2 decide whether 2 have MQ or mule neck. Which do u tink can don a better woman tone??
I would guess Mule. I dont have a tone pot connected to my neck Mule but it is a really smooth lead tone. I would imagine a MQ to have too much bite, being a P90, but I may be wrong.
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Gibson put out that "Voodoo" SG with the 498T in the bridge and 490R in the neck, which is exactly what my LP Std came with (and what I replaced with Crawlers).
Sorry not to nit pick and probably of no relevance to this topic but the Voodoo actually came with 500T Bridge and 496R Neck pickups in a swamp ash body. I have the Les Paul Voodoo and if Im not mistaken all voodoo's came in the swamp ash 500t/496R configuration.
I agree that Gibson pickups leave much to be desired which is exactly why I came here and ordered a holy diver and black dog combo under Tims advice.
Shane
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Yup, now that I check the Gibson site, I see that you're right and the Voodoo came with 496R/500T anyway. I coulda swore I remembered it having the same pups as my LP Standard -- but I guess not! :oops:
On the other hand, as Philly Q pointed out, the standard SG (mahogany) does have the 498T/490R combo (like my ol' LP Std, though they come with Busrtbuckers now). And those are mid-output Alnicos, much like the Abraxas or Crawler (or RY, I suppose). But I trust Tim's judgment on pups more than Gibson's :)
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Sorry not to nit pick and probably of no relevance to this topic but the Voodoo actually came with 500T Bridge and 496R Neck pickups in a swamp ash body.
Oops, should have remembered that :oops: . They were the ones with one red, one black bobbin, both with slug polepieces, weren't they? (he says, trying to demonstrate a less-than-total memory lapse in a desperate attempt to save face.... )
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they sure are they call em the black magic pickups. I didnt mean to throw it in anyones face, its just that I actually knew something for once.
shane
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I don't usually know anything :) and evidently didn't in this case either. :)
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You know how to rock the BKP's. Carlaz I say to redeem yourself you must post 2 new clips of the Crawlers.....STAT!
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I ordered a Mule wif Alnico V as recomended by Tim for an SG. Thx all for ur help. After dis i will save up for an LP hopefully GIbby, if nt Edwards or Tokai. And den it shall be a decision whether to have Nailbomb, Crawler, MM or HD in em :twisted: :lol:
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Carlaz I say to redeem yourself you must post 2 new clips of the Crawlers.....STAT!
:lol: My redemption may be slow in coming .... ;)
Actually, I'm trying to work out a clean-(ish)-toned intro to mylast "Epic Doom" clip as part of turning it into a proper song. So that will at least increase the number of clean(ish) Crawler clips. Not sure that there are many of those (besides the official Geoff Whitehorn BKP clips (http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/ZH-crawler.html)). And for a second clip to complete my redemption .... Eh, I'll think of something eventually! :roll:
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nope there ain't willhave to do one
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Carlaz I clearly stated "NEW" clips. The reposting of old stuff is merely a copout and I won’t stand for it.
This Bareknuckle tribunal is adjourned and you are sentenced to the posting of 2 NEW clips prepared from your own hand. Sentencing effective immediately.
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Oh, then I'll have to post the intro as a separate clip! :lol:
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Thats one.......
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Yeah, I'm gonna have keep thinking (and playing) to absolve myself fully! ;)