Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Doadman on March 12, 2007, 12:19:54 AM

Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 12, 2007, 12:19:54 AM
For those who don't already know, my RGT42 has a mahogony body and thru-neck using two humbuckers and a 5-way selector. I only have the one guitar so it has to do alot to keep me happy in terms of sound. I'm fairly sure that in the bridge position I'll go with a Miracle Man as I like a very distorted tone with plenty of definition. Think Tony Iommi, Randy Rhoads, Zakk Wylde and you have the idea though I also like Synyster Gates alot. Clearly the bridge pickup is used for mostly Metal and Rock. Is this the right way to go?

The neck pup is a bit more problematic for me. I like playing lead on the neck as I love the creamier tone it gives me. I will use the neck pick up to play everything from Metal to Blues so it needs to be versatile. The nearest guitarist I can think of to the sound that I want is Dave Murray of Iron Maiden as he loves using the neck pup for lead too and has these lovely creamy tones that aren't muddy at all. I was originally thinking of a Cold Sweat for the neck but I also think The Mule  will work well for what I'm after. What would you guys think is best? I'd like to keep the 5-way selector and was thinking of coil tapping for greater tonal variation.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on March 12, 2007, 03:09:42 AM
The Miracle Man is a great choice for the bridge slot.

You might want to try an Abraxis in the neck. It has a very smooth neck tone!
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: LazyNinja on March 12, 2007, 08:45:33 AM
Miracle man would be great for bridge but you should know it's anything but Iommi sound.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 14, 2007, 10:42:32 AM
Strange that the MM isn't Iommi in nature as that's the one that Tim came up with! What else would you suggest? I'd thought about the Warpig but was concerned it may sound a bit too muddy.

I'd considered an Abraxis for the neck as I love the sound Santana has but  there aren't many sound clips to check it out. I think Dave Murray uses a PAF style pup, hence my idea about the Mule but the Coldsweat does seem VERY popular. If anyone else has any suggestions and reasons for them I'd be grateful.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: steve on March 14, 2007, 11:34:33 AM
Quote from: Doadman
Strange that the MM isn't Iommi in nature as that's the one that Tim came up with! What else would you suggest? I'd thought about the Warpig but was concerned it may sound a bit too muddy.

I'd considered an Abraxis for the neck as I love the sound Santana has but  there aren't many sound clips to check it out. I think Dave Murray uses a PAF style pup, hence my idea about the Mule but the Coldsweat does seem VERY popular. If anyone else has any suggestions and reasons for them I'd be grateful.


I would say the Mule is not the right choice for your desired tone. maybe something like the Abraxas neck which is really warm sounding or the VHII neck which is really creamy. This has a lot of warm bottom end giving that smooth tone.
Title: Re: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: carlaz on March 14, 2007, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Doadman
The neck pup is a bit more problematic for me. I like playing lead on the neck as I love the creamier tone it gives me. I will use the neck pick up to play everything from Metal to Blues so it needs to be versatile. The nearest guitarist I can think of to the sound that I want is Dave Murray of Iron Maiden as he loves using the neck pup for lead too and has these lovely creamy tones that aren't muddy at all. I was originally thinking of a Cold Sweat for the neck but I also think The Mule  will work well for what I'm after. What would you guys think is best? I'd like to keep the 5-way selector and was thinking of coil tapping for greater tonal variation.

I'm going to support TO's suggestion of the Abraxas neck (same as Crawler neck) which as a) a fabulous hot-but-creamy (and not muddy) neck pup, b) very versatile, c) is designed to split well for coil tapping.

Quote from: Doadman
For those who don't already know, my RGT42 has a mahogony body and thru-neck using two humbuckers and a 5-way selector. I only have the one guitar so it has to do alot to keep me happy in terms of sound. I'm fairly sure that in the bridge position I'll go with a Miracle Man as I like a very distorted tone with plenty of definition. Think Tony Iommi, Randy Rhoads, Zakk Wylde and you have the idea though I also like Synyster Gates alot. Clearly the bridge pickup is used for mostly Metal and Rock. Is this the right way to go?

This is a little tougher, IMO, not least because Zakk's (and Randy's) tone is pretty distinct from Iommi's (especially older Iommi tones).  For Zakk a Miracle Man should be spot on (unsurprisingly), and while I'm not as familiar with Randy's tone, I should think "hot ceramic" would likewise be the right choice. But early Iommi is P-90s and I've never quite figured out what the current Gibson Iommi signature pup's stats are, but my ears tell me it's not quite the same as whatever Zakk is using ....

Still, my sense is that you want something fairly hot and aggressive in the more metally vein, so an MM might still be the way to go.  I think you surely need something hotter than the Mule, fine pickup though it is.  I dunno about the Nailbomb; I'm not sure that has the right vibe.  I love my Crawler bridge, but I think you want something hotter and more metally in the bridge even if you get a Crawler/Abraxas neck.  If not the MM, a Cold Sweat, maybe?
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 14, 2007, 01:55:09 PM
I take your point, Iommi is certainly a very heavy sound but seems to me to be a little muddier in nature than the MM would give, hence I was also considering the Warpig. My son is very keen for me to have a Synyster Gates sound and I'm guessing that his would be more like a Warpig too, though I may be wrong in that. My requirements for the bridge pup are actually quite straightforward as it is mostly Metal. The MM sounds great and certainly seems to come highly recommended. I'm sure the Warpig would also serve its purpose as long as it didn't get too muddy.

I was only considering the Mule for the neck position due to its PAF nature, which I know Dave Murray favours. Likewise, I was only thinking of a Coldsweat for the neck as it would match up well with the MM but I was concerned that the sound may be a little too clinical for what I'm after. I keep picking out Dave Murray, not because he's my favourite guitarist, but because I simply love that well defined yet warm and creamy tone he has when he plays his solos. As you can guess, I like playing solos at the neck rather than the bridge. His is a general neck sound that I like rather than a specific song, as is Carlos Santana so obviously I'm intrigued by the suggestion of an Abraxis in the neck. The neck pup is an area where I really want to get it right as it will need to do a wide range of styles, from Metal to Blues.

Sorry to go on a bit but I really do appreciate the advice and sugggestions. Any other thoughts would be welcome and in the meantime I'll try to find some neck clips of an Abraxis.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: steve on March 14, 2007, 02:27:20 PM
This is all i can offer in the way of Abraxas neck and bridge demo wise.
I set the tone quite bright as it fitted this track, they are normally fat and warm. It may help it may not.

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=89723#89723
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: TwilightOdyssey on March 14, 2007, 02:35:34 PM
I put an Abraxis neck pup into the other TO guitarist's Schechter guitar last night ... it's smokin!! It is the definition of FAT but CONTROLLED tone!!


Edit: The Schechter in question is also mahogany neck through.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: carlaz on March 14, 2007, 02:35:43 PM
Quote from: Doadman
I take your point, Iommi is certainly a very heavy sound but seems to me to be a little muddier in nature than the MM would give, hence I was also considering the Warpig. My son is very keen for me to have a Synyster Gates sound and I'm guessing that his would be more like a Warpig too, though I may be wrong in that.

OK, I'm not familiar with Synyster Gates, but thanks to the magic of the internet, I found a few clips .... Yeah, I'm thinking, hmm, maybe the Ultimate BKP Beast, the ceramic Warpig, could be the way to go! :twisted:  Take it all the way .... 8)

Quote from: Doadman
I was only considering the Mule for the neck position due to its PAF nature, which I know Dave Murray favours. Likewise, I was only thinking of a Coldsweat for the neck as it would match up well with the MM but I was concerned that the sound may be a little too clinical for what I'm after. I keep picking out Dave Murray, not because he's my favourite guitarist, but because I simply love that well defined yet warm and creamy tone he has when he plays his solos. As you can guess, I like playing solos at the neck rather than the bridge. His is a general neck sound that I like rather than a specific song, as is Carlos Santana so obviously I'm intrigued by the suggestion of an Abraxis in the neck. The neck pup is an area where I really want to get it right as it will need to do a wide range of styles, from Metal to Blues.

Well, I'm going to stick with an Abraxas/Crawler neck pup recommendation here.  It very much has a classic PAF vibe, like the Mule, but is hotter than the Mule.  Here are some of my notes from Tim I saved from when I was researching my pups: It's a wind I really like, DC7.6K Alnico IV and I use it on both Crawler and Abraxas sets as a neck so it's bang on for the Santana tone.  I just have a general vibe this pickup would also work out for you, and the extra output will help it keep up with a Warpig or MM perhaps better than a Mule (though I've certainly read reviews from people who are very happy with Warpig/Mule combos).

Quote from: Doadman
]Any other thoughts would be welcome and in the meantime I'll try to find some neck clips of an Abraxis.

Since as Tim notes, he uses the same thing for the neck in Crawler and Abraxas sets, check the clips for Crawler neck samples as well.  There are some official clips from Geoff Whitehorn on the Products page for the Crawlers, and I posted a kind-of-out-of-tune downtuned Crawler clip a good while back that had a short lead noodle on the neck that people quite liked (apart from it being out of tune :) which I blame on the half-bottle of Chilean Cab I'd had when I recorded it ;)). Darned if I remember what it was called, but just search the Players forum for Abraxas and Crawler and eventually you'll find everything!

Edit: OK, that clip is here (http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2988&highlight=neck), and the Whitehorn clips (inc. clean and overdriven neck) are here (http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/ZH-crawler.html).

IMO, the Abraxas/Crawler neck is one of the finest "hidden treasures" of the BKP armoury. Sure, it's great if you like Santana of course, but it does so much more than just that!
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Philly Q on March 14, 2007, 03:03:09 PM
+1 for the Abraxas neck.

It has a great smooth, fat, singing tone and the extra output (compared to, say, a Mule or SM) should compensate for the brightness of the thru-neck and the Floyd (assuming it has a Floyd?).
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 14, 2007, 08:09:50 PM
Thanks for all of the great advice everyone.  Steve, your clip of the Abraxas pup was awesome and could well be what I'm after. I also looked into the VHII and that also sounds impressive. I am a good bit further on now you'll be pleased to hear. The bridge pup will probably be a MM although I am still considering a Warpig. I love the Warpig's sound though I'm a little concerned I may find it a little muddy in some instances as I like quite a crisp and metallic distortion. I keep thinking of the Warpig as muddy in nature; is that right or is it more of a warm distortion?

As for the neck I think I'm 95% certain to go with the Abraxis as so many of you seem to love it and reckon it will mate well with a really hot bridge pup. I like the sound of the VHII as well but I think I may be a fool to fly in the face of such high praise for the Abraxis.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 17, 2007, 06:10:50 PM
I've tried listening to a few Warpig clips now and overall I like the fact that the distortion has more warmth to it while the MM can sound a little clinical and artificial. Because of the nature of some of the clips the WP sometimes sounds a little muddy while at other times it is a lovely crisp distortion. Could this be because some clips are using an Alnico V  and others are ceramic? Unfortunately, alot of the clips don't specify which type of magnet is being used so I'm left unsure. I'm afraid I'm completely non technical so I'd be grateful if someone could explain to me exactly what the difference in sound is.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: carlaz on March 17, 2007, 07:23:14 PM
I'd be inclined to believe that some of the differences you are hearing are people's amp settings or the recording quality of a given clip (there's a lot of range in user-made clips!). I don't think any of the BKP pups are muddy in and of themselves (though you can certainly mud up your amp settings).
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 18, 2007, 08:24:57 AM
That is as I hoped you'd reply. If the Warpig can supply the crisp distortion of a MM but with more warmth to the sound then I will certainly follow the Warpig route. Now all I need to know is whether to go with an Alnico or ceramic magnet. If anyone is able to provide some clips so I can quickly compare them that would be helpful but failing that, even a good explanation of how they differ would be very useful.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: carlaz on March 19, 2007, 10:14:53 AM
I would have sworn I remember a post where Tim highlighted the differences between the alnico and ceramic Warpigs, but I'm darned if I can find it now!  I would think that the ceramic version would push the bass and treble a bit more, but keep the bass tight. Others will have a better view on this than me, though.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 19, 2007, 01:11:51 PM
Thanks for that. The more I hear about the Warpig, the more I think that's the way to go but I really need to know if the Alnico or Ceramic magnet will give me the sound I want. Any help here would be more than welcome.

I also read a very interesting thread over the weekend that was talking about the power needed in a pup to effectively coil tap it. Based on that I think that, awesome though the VHII sounds, it may not be powerful enough to match to a Warpig. In this context the Abrazas would be better for the neck, though I also found a sound clip of a Coldsweat in the neck position and it was seriously impressive; much warmer in tone than I expected. Any thoughts on that too?
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: carlaz on March 19, 2007, 02:06:48 PM
I know from personal experience that the Abraxas neck coil-taps well; and I'm sure I remember reading complementary things about the CS neck, but the only detail I recall is that it's the same wind as the RY neck (like the Abraxas and Crawler sets share the neck specs).  I would think the CS neck could be little hotter than the Abraxas, but not much if any.  The CS came along after I did my stat-gathering research though, so I've exhausted my knowledge about it (and the ceramic/alnico Warpig subtleties!).
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 19, 2007, 11:57:45 PM
Just got a reply from Tim. To a degree he was thinking along the same lines as me but dropped another pup into the equation. He thinks I may prefer the warmer and more versatile tone of an Alnico V pup. I was thinking this way myself but Tim has also suggested that the Holydiver would suit my guitar and set up well. There doesn't seem to be as much on the HD so I'd be interested in your thoughts.

For the neck he thought that the Abraxas may be a shade underpowered but the Coldsweat came highly recommended. I'm almost there at last. The neck is going to be a Coldsweat, no doubt, so now I just have to decide between a HD or an Alnico Warpig. Any further thoughts?
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Philly Q on March 20, 2007, 12:09:22 AM
For info on the Holydiver, I'd suggest searching for Antag's posts and, especially, clips.  It's his favourite BKP and there are loads of good clips.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: carlaz on March 20, 2007, 10:11:03 AM
The HD is a pup I've been watching increasingly closely, generally through the lens of Antag's clips.  I've got a Charvel Charvette that it might sit nicely in.  I would think the HD would be a bit more versatile, though still very "metal" and powerful, while the Warpig would bring a bit more brutal power (albeit warmed with alnico goodness) to the board.  I don't know enough to say anything more useful than that, though, not having compared the HD and Warpig clips directly (or played through them)!
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 20, 2007, 04:14:28 PM
Antag's posts are really useful, especially when he compared the HD directly with a MM and PK. In comparison to the MM, which sounds a little clinical and artificial to my ear, the HD has a warmth to the distortion that is certainly remeniscent of a WP. I love the sound of the MM but I think the versatility of an Alnico makes alot of sense in the only guitar I own. I asked Tim why he chose the HD over an Alnico WP and he said that he felt it may overpower my guitar/amp set up more than the HD. Perhaps he feels that something the power of a WP is better suited to non-mahogany guitars. I really fancied the WP but I think I'd be a fool to ignore his advice. He clearly knows what he's talking about and I've heard enough people sing his praises here to conclude that I should trust his judgement.

So there it is; it will be a Holydiver in the bridge position and a Coldsweat in the neck. Both pickups will be covered, mated to a five way selector and coil tapped. I'll order the pups soon but I'll need to save a little longer to get them fitted and a full set up done on the guitar. The guy I want to use in Leamington Spa is bloody expensive but I've sampled his work before and he really is a craftsman. Thanks for everyone's help.
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: carlaz on March 20, 2007, 04:26:57 PM
Quote from: Doadman
I really fancied the WP but I think I'd be a fool to ignore his advice.

I know that feeling -- I have real "Warpig envy", even though it wouldn't be appropriate for what I'm doing with my guitar most of the time!

Right -- good luck!  We all look forward to pictures and sound clips from the final result! :)
Title: Pickups for Ibanez RGT42
Post by: Doadman on March 25, 2007, 10:14:03 AM
As well as thanking everyone who helped me on this journey, I'd like to give particular thanks to Antag who has been a godsend. On Carlaz's advice I contacted him and he has been a mine of useful information and advice. Any lingering doubts I had over the HD are now gone and the pups will be ordered soon. I am confident that a CS neck and HD bridge will make my guitar better than anything in the Prestige range and as soon as they are fitted I'll post some pictures on the gallery. This is going to be awesome  :D