Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Pierre on April 07, 2007, 02:06:17 PM
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I've only been playing for 2 years but I've built a valve amp, pedals, assembled guitars and do all the work I possibly can on mine and my friend's... I mean it's a true passion. What I'm studying right now sucks so I'm thinking of swapping to Marketing (better for music orientated stuff)
When I finish this degree my parents agreed to help me through guitar/violin/stringed instruments building school. But I can't find any...There's Aniesland college in Glasgow (close to Edinburgh where I live now) but it's not a bachelor. And a school in Totnes, Devon... But that's just 12 weeks.
Have you guys heard of a proper bachelor in guitar building?
With that and a degree in marketing I could get employment in most of the major guitar builders and that's the plan.
Thanks!
Edit:
Heheh that's one that looks gooood...
http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/ug-prospectus/courses-07-08/musical-instruments.cfm
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There isnt a degree in guitar building. The course i am currently on is in Manchester, its HND so its level 4 (if qualifications matter for luthierie - they don't). ITs a great course but has been badly struck by lack of government funding to adult education (the same accross the board with HE courses) however, i don;t know what course they will be doing course wise, whether it will be HNC and HND or a level 2 course which they also have running now. It is a great course, great tutors and you come out at least 3 or 4 amazing acoustic instruments.
http://www.mancat.ac.uk/he/courses/course_details.asp?location=Moston+Campus&course=&cat=%2CHE&submit=Find+a+course&leaflet=420
Read the blurb about it there. Hopefully the coursewill still be as good as mine next september.
Might see you one day for a visit if you come to check out the course
Joe
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damn don't do that one in Hull
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i thought you were suggesting feline should go to luthiery school...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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HAHAHA! :lol:
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ESP Guitar Craft Academy has a 3 year course if you're so inclined.
EDIT: But it's not in th UK, I should have read the title properly :oops:
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I'm about to start a 3 month course at the Totnes School of Guitar Making in Devon. I know a few people over at the Sound on Sound forum who speak really highly of it (one of them having taken the same course a few years back). Can't wait to start.
The website is: www.totnesschoolofguitarmaking.co.uk
*Rahnooo*
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I wouldn't mind but the cost of 3 months is the same as 3 years of uni :s and that doesn't even include accomodation :s but yeah it does seem like a cool course to take.
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Totnes is very classically based, and is a completely intensive based course, you get 3 years of knowledge in 3months, that the idea.
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I went to the London College of Furniture- now part of London Metropolitan University
But to be fair most of what i learnt and practice is from continuing that study via books , videos, evening classes, personal training in guitar workshops and lots and lots of practice
My own advice is get your degree in something that you can fall back on to bring in a good wage and study the guitar tech stuff in your own time- like the marketing degree
You may find that you will be grateful for that in the future
A degree in a science for example does you more good than any kind of degree or diploma in guitar making
To do anything sensible in guitar making you will end up self employed and I doubt that you will be too bothered about your degree certifcate - just the know how that you have to create stuff, whether you learnt it at college or from reading and practising
Whereas with the right degree an employer may give you a good job, should you realise that you don't want to make guitars or that you wont be able to earn enough doing it
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I read and ask whatever I can right now. The matter is, I can't build anything :( The degree would be as much for the actual experience of building as the CV experience, if you see what I mean. I really do intend to finish at my current university though. Marketing or combined studies.
How was that course Feline?
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While you're waiting to get your hands on some fresh timber, try picking up an old book on carpentry. My grandad gave me a book that's dated at least as old as the 1910's (I've found it was first printed in the 1860's) called "Every Man His Own Mechanic" (the term mechanic included carpentry back then) and it's amazing - I've learnt far more from it than I ever did on the internet, which is saying something since the net is packed full of information teaching you how to build guitars. The book starts by introducing how to use hand planes, chisels, sharpening equipment etc etc, and later goes on to show you how to build various projects. If you get a basic knowledge of normal carpentry (much like Jonathan did on a furniture course) you'll have a far easier time of it than the average Joe on forums such as Project Guitar that are learning skills only as needed when required to build a guitar. The knowledge you need to build a guitar as opposed to any other type of woodworking product isn't actually that great, and I'm pretty sure a joiner could build a nice, fully working guitar just by spending a few weeks on projectguitar.com and reading Melvyn Hisc--k's book on how to build a guitar.
Having said that, just try and maximise all your sources of knowledge - you can spend hours a day engrossed in reading all about this stuff on the internet, there are DVD's you can buy to show you how to use any piece of equipment (check out Axminster.co.uk for those), but most importantly it can't hurt to just get stuck in and learning by doing. I don't intend to go on a course at any point, and I can't justify it financially anyway, but the first few projects I've been working on with the basic necessary tools seem to be turning out to something I'm really happy with.
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Ahh I'd love to do this actually... Problems so far, I can't order off the Internet and I have no available space/money/tool... So I can't do much that's manual other than what I do now. Setups, electronics, pedal and amp works/building. Wood work is simply out of the question :( We don't have a garage or anything like that even in Amsterdam.
I totally agree with your point though to be honest! When I first got into it it didn't take me long to realize that it's just what it is. Wood work. A Strat or Tele is pretty straightforward and if you learn about hardware and fingerboard radius theory, most carpenters/jointers or even DIY furniture hobbyists could make one.
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JOHN-BARNARD-EVERY-MAN-HIS-OWN-MECHANIC-CLOTH_W0QQitemZ300097956160QQcategoryZ29222QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Do you have the ability to use ebay? If so I really recommend you get this book anyway in the mean time, if you do decide to go down the course route it'll still save you a lot of time having to learn about things on the course itself and add to the knowledge you gain there - or it could be just a great book to read when you've got time to burn on the toilet i guess....
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I did a one year course at the London College which was designed as a skills builder in guitar making for those without a woodwork background.
It was a pretty good course but was always hard to get the personal training and supervision that you'd like.
That was over 20 years ago (1986-7)
I had hoped to go on to do the full higher Diploma course but funds wouldn't allow (i had previously had a grant to study Applied Physics at Middlesex Polytechnic, but jumped ship as I was far too distracted by wanting to make guitars)
So I had to find a workshop that would take me on as a trainee, and was only able to do that as a result of the old JTS (Job training Scheme) paying my way, as no small workshop can afford to pay an unskilled trainee. I wangled that as an alternative to my having to sign on unemployed - it was a new initiative that the Tory Government brought in and I used it to get what i wanted.
So I owe a lot of my training to a guy called neil Macdonald at Neil's Guitar Workshop (later became Nightingale Guitars)
The other major influence on me is a guy called Dan Erlewine who wrote hundreds of columns in Gutar Player magazine and now works with Stewmac.com. I studied his books and videos with the same intensity that many young guys study porn. He taught me so much via books and videos and I still learning from him . Check them out at www.stewmac.com
I later became good friends with him and the other gfuys at Stewmac - nice people!!
Nothing beats the opportunity to apply that learning though and I worked constantly over the years tinkering and rebuilding guitars (driving girlfriends crazy too with all the mess).
Experience and figuring out from first priciples what makes it work right is the best teacher.
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Cool story! I've been looking for people to take me as an apprentice allover Edinburgh but times changed :lol:
Dan is also an influence for me. Though I never got to talk to him. But I have his two bibles, got them a couple of months after I started playing/got my first axe. Also Melvyn Hiscok's book which is excellent and very well written. Every sentence I read about guitar setups, building, or the more guitars I even touch and think 'mhm could do with a bit of this or that' makes me want to get to it even more. I'm starting to think I have an unhealthy passion for wood (ok ok ok I couldn't resist fine :lol: )
Like you, I'd much rather find guitars to build than learn at a uni...Unfortunately though it's getting harder and harder I guess :( I don't want to seem complaining all the time but it truly is. It's a passion of past time, what with CNCs and mass production now. In a way it sucks. But thankfully there are a lot of people out there who still want to do it the old school way, and actually chose their timber ;) So thanks for that!
I think I'll just concentrate on the present course. It's time I kick myself in the back a bit. The rest will come with time.
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I did a one year course at the London College
Nothing beats the opportunity to apply that learning though and I worked constantly over the years tinkering and rebuilding guitars (driving girlfriends crazy too with all the mess).
Guitars come to my house to die :wink:
I've been trawling car boots to get guitars to save and dodgy plywood bolt ons to practice on. I'm OK (definately getting a lot better) with the woodwork, but it's my finishing that needs practice.
Feline - Did you know Andy Varah while at the LCF? I think he used to teach there about the time you were there. He helped me out on a project a while back. Check out www.varah.co.uk - he really is the best I've ever seen (and likes a nice drink too :lol: )
Pierre - I know a few luthiers and all of them have slowly developed that way, starting kind of like I am and working up.
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Feline - Did you know Andy Varah while at the LCF? I think he used to teach there about the time you were there.
Didn't know him personally - it was a big college and he maybe ran a different department.
Was alo a long time ago - I'd be lucky to remember my own tutor's name
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WOAH! sgmypod...are you in hull?
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Sorry for uploading a 2 years old thread, but does anybody know the Irish School of Luthierie (at Galway City, Ireland - Paul Doyle the owner)?
I've talked with some guys here that I'm planning a guitar building course and the only one I know in Brazil I've already made and don't find it very good, so I'm thinking in go abroad... Mains problem: Euro and £ are about 3 or 4 times more expensive than my currency, so I'll expend a hell lot of money... This one is as expensive as Totnes, so beside it looks a top curse, may be hard to me... There is others:
* Le Bois de Luthierie in Fertans, France (they teach in english too, but haven't entered in touch, yet);
* Centrum voor Muziekinstrumentenbouw in Puurs, Belgium (haven't entered in touch, yet but I guess that english wouldn't be a problem as there is translation on their website);
* The Luthiers Lot in Adelaide, Australia (haven't entered in touch, yet);
* Cloe Luthier's School in Roma, Italy (haven't entered in touch, yet);
I may be trying it on 2010's summer (actually I've some differents plans to my near future and have to decide which road I'll get :lol:)
Any help will be apreciated A LOT! :D
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i thought you were suggesting feline should go to luthiery school...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
thats exactly what i thought when i read :lol:
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WOAH! sgmypod...are you in hull?
..yeah
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I can find out for you, Fernando, i've got a good friend who has worked with Paul Doyle when he was living in Ireland- i'll ask him, and i'll let you know :)
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Not really helping, but Galway is possibly my favourite town on Earth. If nothing else, you'll have an absolute blast there.
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i dont think you can train for this shite!! :)
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I'm coming in to this thread late.
http://www.baileyguitars.co.uk/
I met this guy at the Manchester guitar show.
He runs 5 day courses for £500 and I think it is up in Scotland.
I'm sure they are a good insight in to building if you are able to afford it.
He is booked up for a long time in advance though.
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I'm coming in to this thread late.
http://www.baileyguitars.co.uk/
I met this guy at the Manchester guitar show.
He runs 5 day courses for £500 and I think it is up in Scotland.
I'm sure they are a good insight in to building if you are able to afford it.
He is booked up for a long time in advance though.
I've done his course twice (I am a slow learner, and I was starting from a long way back!).
The course is absolutely brilliant. No reservations about recommending it to anyone who wants to learn some basics about guitar building.
However, it won't teach you everything that you'll need to know - it's only a 5 day course. It will teach you (a) that you actually can build guitars with relatively simple tools and (b) the basics of how to build a pretty good functioning guitar. You then spend the next couple of decades refining those skills. Mark himself would be the first to admit that after 20/30 years building guitars, he's still learning stuff himself.
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Just for starters Martin Koch has a book and step by step cd that is pretty good. There is a 6 week course in Colorado that costs like 500 usd Its at red rocks community college. I think they give you a diploma. I would want to do a shorter course personally why waist 4 years in college when you can work with a Luthier closely for a a couple of months.
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or teach yourself. ok, its not the fastest or most obvious way to become a guitar builder but it does mean you can still earn a living doing a well paying job as you learn. the advantage of that is that you still have other skills to fall back on
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Learning some woodworking skills will help and there are far more nightschool and college courses for those then at least when you go on the proper luthier course even if it is a short one you will have honed masic skills
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or teach yourself. ok, its not the fastest or most obvious way to become a guitar builder but it does mean you can still earn a living doing a well paying job as you learn. the advantage of that is that you still have other skills to fall back on
The tools here in Brazil are freaking expensive and I don't have a place to put them now, nor money to rent it... Trying to use other's guys tools has shown to be like a time at 4 or 6 months (as all my projects are very late... don't know there, here this "help" renting machines and tools are not very well sight)
i dont think you can train for this shitee!! :)
:lol: What shitee do you refer???
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i was being flippant with my first comment - but the point is that even a training course could not cover everything.
i have built guitars with minimal tools for the last few years and it is only now i am able to think about bigger tools and more professional ways of doing things. its not the tools you have, its how you use them!!!
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i was being flippant with my first comment - but the point is that even a training course could not cover everything.
i have built guitars with minimal tools for the last few years and it is only now i am able to think about bigger tools and more professional ways of doing things. its not the tools you have, its how you use them!!!
Yes, but I would like to learn how to make a GOOD carved top, etc... Mind also that I've a love/hate relation with Brazil and would like trying living abroad (I have portuguese nationality, so the problem today is the recession :?)
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would like trying living abroad
I think most people would like to trying living abroad. It's called "the grass is always greener"
Europe's a horrible place to live. Full of foreigners living abroad ...
>>> :wink: <<<
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No course in itself will make you a guitar builder
In a short course you may well be lucky enough to make a guitar that plays nicely and that you are happy with.
But it will not put you in a position to call yourself a builder
It is all down to practice (just like playing the guitar)
I would say it takes about 10,000 hours of practice to become really good at anything that you chose to do
(like practicing guitar 3-4 hours a day, every day for 10 years)
There is some very interesting research into this - Malcolm Gladwell talks about it in his latest book: Outliers
fantastic book - well worth reading!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/1846141214/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242577371&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/1846141214/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242577371&sr=8-1)
Obsession and dedication seems to be the key ingredient
Here is my pathway:
I did a course for a year at London Met - was London College of Furniture (1986)
I then got a years training in a repair workshop, which was a great learning curve (1987)
I then worked in guitar factories (1988-9)
I also bought every book, video, magazine etc on guitar making I could find (1989- today)
In many ways I count Dan Erlewine (www.stewmac.com) as someone who taught me the most- via his books and videos, and I am pleased to know him personally as well
I spent the next 8 years making/repairing/setting up guitars in every spare waking hour (much to the disgust of girlfriends)
I spent all my money on tools and stuff (much to the continued disgust of girlfriends)
I set up my own company and went full time in 1997 (8+ hours every day, 5-6 days a week)
23 years later I am still learning new stuff, still reading magazines and books on it, discussing stuff with other guitar makers.
If I had time I would still go on courses, where I might learn new stuff
Sometimes I learn new stuff from guys who work for me and who I give training to (I usually always recruit from Merton College, or London Met)
You can never know it all (You can know enough to get by), but there is always something new and fascinating to learn.
But you don't have to do a course - like I said I learnt a huge amount from books and video.
My friend Doug from Black Machine never did a course in Guitar making, although he had a background in Engineering
He and I have spent the last 20 years getting together and swapping ideas and trading guitars and parts with each other
What he has is obsession and dedication,(and a love of F1 motor-racing) not unlike myself!
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I don't have the fantasy of be as good as any of those guys direct from the course, but I may have a idea of how I should make the things and them save the first 10 tops that would go to firewood (unfortunatelly there will be more, I know... :( )... Lets see what happens! :)
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I went to the London College of Furniture- now part of London Metropolitan University
But to be fair most of what i learnt and practice is from continuing that study via books , videos, evening classes, personal training in guitar workshops and lots and lots of practice
My own advice is get your degree in something that you can fall back on to bring in a good wage and study the guitar tech stuff in your own time- like the marketing degree
You may find that you will be grateful for that in the future
A degree in a science for example does you more good than any kind of degree or diploma in guitar making
To do anything sensible in guitar making you will end up self employed and I doubt that you will be too bothered about your degree certifcate - just the know how that you have to create stuff, whether you learnt it at college or from reading and practising
Whereas with the right degree an employer may give you a good job, should you realise that you don't want to make guitars or that you wont be able to earn enough doing it
That's really good advice; it can be difficult to make a living at this game to kick off with. My son Tom has just come into the business but luckily has an electronics degree that keeps in him in work to pay the rent etc till he get's established.
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Thanks guys, I shall keep on thinking for a while!