Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: gwEm on April 09, 2007, 03:11:45 PM
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i'm concered about the epiphone floyd rose on one of my flying vs.
at first, it hardly stayed in tune at all. now, since then i replaced the 3 cheap springs it had with 2 pretty heavy duty ones. i inserted them in a 'V' shape, following the advice i read earlier on this forum.
things now are quite alot better, but it doesn't quite stay in 100% tune - its always a few cents sharp or flat depending which way i push the thing.
i would say the floyd is usable now, but is this normal? i thought FR was supposed to return 100% in tune?
except for the cheap springs, the epi floyd seems to be of reasonably decent construction (at least visually). i was wondering about replacing the saddles for graphtech ones (60 quid), or replacing the whole thing with a gotoh (110 quid) or schaller (200+ quid). obviously, thats quite an expense - would any of these things actually help?
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It also depends on the quality of the knife edge, where it pivots.
Often cheaper floyds are a little soft and get deformed
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+ 1 on the knife edges. Check these first as that is 98% gonna be the problem.
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as wel as the knife edges, the studs could be worth a look.
I've heard you can file dodgy knife edges down to make them a bit better (though if soft metal is the problem, this is only really prolonging the usable life slightly, not fixing the problem), though I've never had the courage (or small enough files) to attempt this myself.
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Make of springs can be an issue too
Springs need to be under tension still ath the zero point - when the trem is balanced
What gauge of string & what tuning are you using?
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thanks all for the advice
Make of springs can be an issue too
Springs need to be under tension still ath the zero point - when the trem is balanced
What gauge of string & what tuning are you using?
they are 10s in standard tuning. the springs appear to be under some tension, and the claw is about 5mm away from the back of the spring cavity. i'm using all parts springs, which are quite alot stiffer than the epiphone ones.
with regard to the knife edge - I think this could be a possibilty. i tried to look at the pivot point last night, and its hard to see the exact place where it pivots. however, i took the idea of soft metalwork as an inspiration, and noticed that the fine tuner screws do wobble slightly. would simply changing the mounting studs help?
if not it seems as if i'll have to bite the bullet and get a new bridge at least. the difference in price between gotoh and schaller is quite substantial - any idea about the difference in quality?
edit (1): i just measured the string spacing - its almost exactly 50mm (!).. looks like i might need the FR 'pro' variant. i wonder if the routing is alot different...
edit (2): it is different. hopefully i can avoid replacing it, but if so it will need careful measurement to get the right one. visually, it appears to have fine tuners like an OFR
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Spring :roll:
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as far as I'm aware, the gotoh one is at least as good as the schaller one... the schaller one is kind of stiff too (the one I tried, anyway), which I don't really like (that's personal preference, though), though I'm guessing you could address that with a different number of springs etc. But I have heard other people saying schallers have quite a stiff feel too.
measuring is the most important bit, though. if you email schaller, they'll send you routing templates, wd have the gotoh one on their website, as do floyd rose. it's more than likely, if you do decide to upgrade, that you'll have to end up going for the one that fits, lol.
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dave, cheers for the thoughts. the epi unit looks just like a OFR, but with 50mm string spacing like an FR Pro.
one thing that concerns me is the 50mm string spacing. if i change it to a 54mm unit, would the strings be off the edge of the fretboard?
i'm off home now to measure this thing properly :)
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^ i'm not sure, you might be ok, you might not. as you said, best to make sure.
also wait till someone else who knows more (like feline or one of the other guys) answers.
:drink:
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the rout is pretty much spot on the sizes suggested by the official floyd template. just that it is slightly shorter (?!) - a little under 3 inches, actually it should be a little over.
furthermore, i see i have been mistaken: /it is/ somekind of low profile FR thats on the guitar. i checked some pictures online, and other epi Vs with FR have an OFR, not low profile. it is my idea that at some point in the past, a previous owner has changed the bridge.
i think i should be totally safe changing to an OFR style bridge of some kind, just that slight question mark over the routing - it may not be critical.
cost discourages me though. i'm tempted just to convert the bridge to non-floating, or with some luck maybe a friend will visit the US soon.
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yeah, cost is the problem... i have a musicyo kramer which is actually not too bad considering what it cost, but to get it up to the spec I'd like it to have (i don't like the neck dimensions either, nothing really to do with the spec, just preference) i figure it'd cost me in the region of £500, which isn't really worth it for a £250 guitar... when you could get a whole gordon smith or similar for the same price...
:(
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well, to finish this off:
i removed the trem off totally, and its a total piece of junk - knife edges totally destroyed. if the guy who fitted it thought it was an upgrade - they were sadly mistaken...
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Just a thought, gwEm:
Does your Floyd have a short trem block to allow for the V's thinner body? Most trems are made for a 1-3/4" thick Strat body. Could be tricky to get a direct replacement.
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i have no idea philly - my trem block itself is 32mm high.
body depth is 40mm. i suspect i couldn't get away with a much higher block, maybe a few mm.
i pulled the trem to pieces now. the block appears to be screwed on simply. i can't vouch for its quality, but maybe i can reuse this block on a new trem (?!)
dead set on putting a high quality unit in this thing now, i want to sort out this guitar properly
EDIT: just seen an official floyd has a 37mm high block. now thats going to be really tight, if it fits at all.
i'm happy to be getting some advice on this.
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I'd guess you can probably get replacement blocks for OFR and Schaller bridges, but it's not something I know much about.
I was thinking about the V's body being thin because I saw an old Burny V that someone had put a Floyd on - the trem rout had cut right through to the pickup cavity so you could see the bottom of the bridge pickup!
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what a picture! ;)
luckily its not like that this end
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i don't know, to be honest. i'd wait to see what feline says, to be honest.
I'm a little concerned with my gotoh and ibanez (which i haven't got round to fitting yet), for similar reasons...
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dave, yes thats good advice i think. i sent a pm to feline earlier, in case he had a trem in stock.
the depth of the trem block might be a problem - but i've measured it closely, and i think i'll just be able to get away with it.
but, i've now noticed a new problem - the (non ;)) locking nut is attached from the front. gotoh locking nuts are clearly described as being attached from the back. this will probably turn out to be a problem too. i dont know if schaller or offical nuts attach from the front.
dave, do you think the gotoh nut could be attached from the front anyway?
i've had lots of practise now(!) pulling this thing apart :) i'm feeling pretty confident i could set a floyd up decently now, if it was of good quality.
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lemme check, i have the gotoh one here (and i checked to make sure it was the right way round with my ibanez one).
EDIT: yep, the gotoh one attaches from the back. it sells separately to the gotoh trem... i don't see why you couldn't buy a gotoh trem, and then another locking nut that attaches the correct way (unless there are some scale length problems? i doubt it, though)... that is, if you can find any for sale that attach the "correct way" for what you want.
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thanks for checking that.
i did a little research. apparantly you can get 'top mount' and 'rear mount' nuts, and even nuts that can do both - so that should be sortable after all, with some other non-gotoh nut.
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^ no problem at all.
:drink: